Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 AM - Re: Excessive R Mag Drop (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 07:52 AM - Re: Excessive R Mag Drop (William Halverson)
3. 08:10 AM - Re: Excessive R Mag Drop (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 09:12 AM - Re: Excessive R Mag Drop (doug sapp)
5. 12:36 PM - JTY-1A Voltage regulator (matt salkeld)
6. 02:19 PM - Re: JTY-1A Voltage regulator (Frank Stelwagon)
7. 02:49 PM - Re: JTY-1A Voltage regulator (doug sapp)
8. 08:13 PM - Re: Excessive R Mag Drop (Scott Poehlmann)
9. 11:01 PM - JTY-1 Regulator (Frank Stelwagon)
10. 11:25 PM - Re: Excessive R Mag Drop (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive R Mag Drop |
Scott,
A couple of comments based on your post. These comments will most
likely not change the mag drop. But I believe are important.
- Mag checks are typically done at 70%, although the large mag drop
would most likely not change by doing the mag check at 60-65%.
- The BR7HS plugs are a "colder" plug and I would suggest changing to
BR6HS plugs. Gap the new plugs to .21 -.22. We have found the BR6HS
plugs to be a much better plug for the M14 than either the BR7's or 8's.
- Rotating the distributor rotor just for the sake of trying to reduce
the mag drop is definitely a no-no. You are forcing the rotor point off
the center contact of the mag cap ie: making the spark jump the gap.
You could be damaging the mag cap. The reason the rotor has slots in it
is to enable the mechanic to properly align the position of the rotor to
the scribed mark on the boss of the magneto (the mag cover mating
surface once the mag timing is properly set). See attached. This
positions the rotor point to the center of the contact inside the
magneto cap when the mag cap is installed. I would recommend you
recheck the timing and after properly setting the timing, reset the
rotor by placing a straight edge across the center of the rotor to the
rotor point, then loosen the 3 screws and align the center and the point
of the rotor to the scribe mark on the boss of the mag.
Since you are getting a large mag drop, you can possibly isolate the
faulty cylinder (plug not firing) by running the mag on the BAD mag to
see what cylinders are not firing. Start the engine and immediately
rotate the mag switch to the #2 mag and leave it there. You said #2 was
giving you the large mag drop. Now let it run for a few minutes on the
bad mag. Shut the engine down. Using a laser temperature sensor which
you can buy at Radio Shack, measure the temperature of each cylinder at
exactly the same point on each cylinder. Pick a spot that is easy to
"shoot" with the laser. Just make sure you measure the temps at the
same location on every cylinder. You will likely find a cylinder that
is much colder than the others. That will be the suspect wire/plug. It
could also be a small crack in the mag cap between the contact points.
Look for carbon traces in the mag cap. Replace the cap for testing
purposes. But be sure to align the rotor point to the scribe mark
before replacing the cap.
Regarding the mag drop, since you are using the 8 mm wires, you can
measure the resistance of the wires from the spark plug end to the mag
cap. Starting with the longest wire, (left mag #6; right mag #5)
measure the resistance of the wires using a digital ohm meter. The
shorter the wire, the less resistance. If you find a bad wire, (no
resistance) remove the end from the mag cap, cut off about 3/8",
reinstall and screw in the wire-piercing screw. Then check the
resistance again. If the wire still reads completely open (no
resistance), contact me off-list and I can order you a new wire.
I hope this helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Poehlmann
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Excessive R Mag Drop
Hi Guys,
My lovely M9F (okay, "Phi", but I don't have that key on this
keyboard...<VBG>) magnetos (mounted on a Yak-55M) seem to have
developed
an issue, and I need some help toubleshooting it. The problem is an
excessive mag drop on the right (#2) mag. Mag checks done between 60%
and 65% yield a 2.5-2.9% drop on the Left mag (#1) and (initially) a
9.5-9.9% drop on the Right (#2). Here is what I have done so far and
the
effect:
1) Replaced the plugs (NGK BR7HS gapped at 0.25). No effect. N.B., the
ignition wires are US 8 mm automotive wires and are just over 18
months old.
2) Checked the point gap (and cleaned everything in the top of the mag
with Isopropanol). Gap correct at 0.3 mm. No effect.
3) Reset the distributor rotor to full "aft" (i.e., opposite the
direction of rotation) position. No effect.
4) Reset distributor rotor to mid-position. Decreased drop on Right
mag
to about 8.5%.
5) Reset distributor rotor to full "forward" position (i.e., in
direction of rotation). Decreased drop on Right mag to about 7.7-7.9%.
This is the best that I can get. Obviously, this isn't good enough...
Any ideas on what the problem is and (more importantly to me), what
the
solution is? Preferably without recourse to "buy a new mag"...
I'm stumped.
Thanks,
Scott Poehlmann
Yak 55M N155YK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive R Mag Drop |
When I try to do my run up at 70% RPM my brakes won't hold. Details
are 400HP, MTV 3 blade prop, and Cleveland 6" wheels/brakes.
Anybody else have that problem? I would think the 440 HP engine
makes it even worse ...
Thanks!
William Halverson
YAK55
At 05:24 AM 8/31/2009, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>Scott,
>A couple of comments based on your post. These comments will most
>likely not change the mag drop. But I believe are important.
>
>- Mag checks are typically done at 70%, although the large mag drop
>would most likely not change by doing the mag check at 60-65%.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive R Mag Drop |
Good point William. Thanks for sharing that because it is important.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: William Halverson
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Excessive R Mag Drop
When I try to do my run up at 70% RPM my brakes won't hold. Details
are 400HP, MTV 3 blade prop, and Cleveland 6" wheels/brakes.
Anybody else have that problem? I would think the 440 HP engine makes
it even worse ...
Thanks!
William Halverson
YAK55
At 05:24 AM 8/31/2009, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
Scott,
A couple of comments based on your post. These comments will most
likely not change the mag drop. But I believe are important.
- Mag checks are typically done at 70%, although the large mag drop
would most likely not change by doing the mag check at 60-65%.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive R Mag Drop |
Bill,When we run the big 30 inch tires and the borer super prop on the cubs
we have a similar problem. We solved it by using a oil squirt can full of
what ever type of brake fluid your fond of, this is the type of oil can with
the "squeeze it" handle, squirts across the shop with each pull. (tape
a lazer pointer to it and it's wonderful for killing wasps and yellow
jackets--messy though) Use a piece of clear plastic tubing big enough to
fit tightly over the nozzle, the other end should be just big enough to slip
over the bleeder valve on the brake housing,(which should be on the upper
side of the housing.) Pump the hose full of fluid to remove the
possibilities of any bubbles, slightly loosen the bleeder valve, you should
see a slight bit of fluid appear, quickly skip the tube over the bleeder
valve taking care not to trap any bubbles in the line. Pump the lever on
the oil can until you see the pucks in the brake housing start to move
outward. Stop pumping just before the pucks contact the surface of the disc
on your Clevelands, pause a moment keeping the clear plastic tube vertical
and any air bubbles rise up in the line, next close the bleeder valve,
disconnect the hose and your done. It is best to do this when the aircraft
is jacked up enough to spin the tires to check for a dragging brake. This
is the theory: The brake pucks force the pads out against the disc when the
brake is applied, then they retreat to the "at rest" position when the
brakes are released. Any wear in the pads or on the disk will require more
fluid being needed to make the puck extend and firmly grip the disk than it
did when these parts were new, "back pressuring" the brakes replaces this
fluid. Note that this will make your brakes "touchy" if you pump them up to
much. Give it a try, it just might solve your problem.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:48 AM, William Halverson <william@netpros.net>wrote:
>
>
> When I try to do my run up at 70% RPM my brakes won't hold. Details are
> 400HP, MTV 3 blade prop, and Cleveland 6" wheels/brakes.
>
> Anybody else have that problem? I would think the 440 HP engine makes it
> even worse ...
>
> Thanks!
>
> William Halverson
> YAK55
>
>
> At 05:24 AM 8/31/2009, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> Scott,
> A couple of comments based on your post. These comments will most likely
> not change the mag drop. But I believe are important.
>
> - Mag checks are typically done at 70%, although the large mag drop would
> most likely not change by doing the mag check at 60-65%.
>
> *
>
> =
> *
>
>
--
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy
out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another
person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because
the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets
the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get
what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any
nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."*
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 5
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| Subject: | JTY-1A Voltage regulator |
Hi=2C
Was wondering if anyone has any information On the JTY-1A Voltage Regulator
(Schematics=2C pinout=2C ect.) Used in the CJ-6A (As I understand this is
a military conversion part=2C not from Nanchang) Mine Doesn't seem to be wo
rking=2C but may be incorrectly wired(Generator=2C Diode and switch all wor
k) Any help would be appreciated=2C
Thank you=2C
Matt Salkeld
_________________________________________________________________
New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: JTY-1A Voltage regulator |
Matt,
Give me your E-mail address off list and I will send you schematics.
Frank
CJ6_A N23021
pfstelwagon@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: matt salkeld
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:28 PM
Subject: Yak-List: JTY-1A Voltage regulator
Hi,
Was wondering if anyone has any information On the JTY-1A Voltage
Regulator (Schematics, pinout, ect.) Used in the CJ-6A (As I understand
this is a military conversion part, not from Nanchang) Mine Doesn't seem
to be working, but may be incorrectly wired(Generator, Diode and switch
all work) Any help would be appreciated,
Thank you,
Matt Salkeld
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
New! Hotmail sign-in on the MSN homepage.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: JTY-1A Voltage regulator |
Frank,Any chance of getting a copy for my files?
Doug Sapp
18B Riverview Road
Omak, WA 98841
Dougsappllc@gmail.com
509-826-4610
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Frank Stelwagon
<pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>wrote:
> Matt,
>
> Give me your E-mail address off list and I will send you schematics.
>
> Frank
> CJ6_A N23021
> pfstelwagon@earthlink.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* matt salkeld <msalkeld@hotmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2009 12:28 PM
> *Subject:* Yak-List: JTY-1A Voltage regulator
>
> Hi,
>
> Was wondering if anyone has any information On the JTY-1A Voltage Regulator
> (Schematics, pinout, ect.) Used in the CJ-6A (As I understand this is a
> military conversion part, not from Nanchang) Mine Doesn't seem to be
> working, but may be incorrectly wired(Generator, Diode and switch all work)
> Any help would be appreciated,
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Salkeld
>
> ------------------------------
> New! Hotmail sign-in on the MSN homepage.<http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid'77401>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy
out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another
person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because
the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets
the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get
what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any
nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."*
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive R Mag Drop |
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for the usual thorough and thoughtful info. I will do all of your
suggestions. I was under the misapprehension that the slots in the rotor
were to allow for synchronization between the two mags, which led me to
the idea of checking a variety of positions. Hopefully I have not
damaged the caps, although I have only run the engine for a total of
perhaps 15 minutes since varying the rotor position. I will reset it to
the boss mark (which I hopefully can find...) as specified in your
e-mail. Please confirm that it is the CENTER LINE of the rotor (which
has two contacts on it, one in front of the other, separated by perhaps
0.5 cm; thus the center line is between the two contacts...) which is to
be aligned with the scribe mark.
I am going to try the BR6 plugs and see if that fixes the problem, and
will also see if I can identify a "cold" cylinder. Failing that I'll
measure the resistances of the plug wires.
As to doing the run-up at 65%, I was taught this (I think by Nik...)
when I first transitioned into an Su-29 about 7 years ago and frankly
have never given it any thought since then.
Thanks again.
Scott
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Scott,
> A couple of comments based on your post. These comments will most
> likely not change the mag drop. But I believe are important.
>
> - Mag checks are typically done at 70%, although the large mag drop
> would most likely not change by doing the mag check at 60-65%.
> - The BR7HS plugs are a "colder" plug and I would suggest changing to
> BR6HS plugs. Gap the new plugs to .21 -.22. We have found the BR6HS
> plugs to be a much better plug for the M14 than either the BR7's or 8's.
> - Rotating the distributor rotor just for the sake of trying to reduce
> the mag drop is definitely a no-no. You are forcing the rotor point
> off the center contact of the mag cap ie: making the spark jump the
> gap. You could be damaging the mag cap. The reason the rotor has
> slots in it is to enable the mechanic to properly align the position
> of the rotor to the scribed mark on the boss of the magneto (the mag
> cover mating surface once the mag timing is properly set). See
> attached. This positions the rotor point to the center of the contact
> inside the magneto cap when the mag cap is installed. I would
> recommend you recheck the timing and after properly setting the
> timing, reset the rotor by placing a straight edge across the center
> of the rotor to the rotor point, then loosen the 3 screws and
> align the center and the point of the rotor to the scribe mark on the
> boss of the mag.
>
> Since you are getting a large mag drop, you can possibly isolate the
> faulty cylinder (plug not firing) by running the mag on the BAD mag to
> see what cylinders are not firing. Start the engine and immediately
> rotate the mag switch to the #2 mag and leave it there. You said #2
> was giving you the large mag drop. Now let it run for a few minutes
> on the bad mag. Shut the engine down. Using a laser temperature
> sensor which you can buy at Radio Shack, measure the temperature of
> each cylinder at exactly the same point on each cylinder. Pick a spot
> that is easy to "shoot" with the laser. Just make sure you measure
> the temps at the same location on every cylinder. You will likely
> find a cylinder that is much colder than the others. That will be the
> suspect wire/plug. It could also be a small crack in the mag cap
> between the contact points. Look for carbon traces in the mag cap.
> Replace the cap for testing purposes. But be sure to align the rotor
> point to the scribe mark before replacing the cap.
>
> Regarding the mag drop, since you are using the 8 mm wires, you can
> measure the resistance of the wires from the spark plug end to the mag
> cap. Starting with the longest wire, (left mag #6; right mag #5)
> measure the resistance of the wires using a digital ohm meter. The
> shorter the wire, the less resistance. If you find a bad wire, (no
> resistance) remove the end from the mag cap, cut off about 3/8",
> reinstall and screw in the wire-piercing screw. Then check the
> resistance again. If the wire still reads completely open (no
> resistance), contact me off-list and I can order you a new wire.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Scott Poehlmann <mailto:scott-p@texas.net>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 9:20 PM
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Excessive R Mag Drop
>
> <mailto:scott-p@texas.net>>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> My lovely M9F (okay, "Phi", but I don't have that key on this
> keyboard...<VBG>) magnetos (mounted on a Yak-55M) seem to have
> developed
> an issue, and I need some help toubleshooting it. The problem is an
> excessive mag drop on the right (#2) mag. Mag checks done between 60%
> and 65% yield a 2.5-2.9% drop on the Left mag (#1) and (initially) a
> 9.5-9.9% drop on the Right (#2). Here is what I have done so far
> and the
> effect:
>
> 1) Replaced the plugs (NGK BR7HS gapped at 0.25). No effect. N.B.,
> the
> ignition wires are US 8 mm automotive wires and are just over 18
> months old.
> 2) Checked the point gap (and cleaned everything in the top of the
> mag
> with Isopropanol). Gap correct at 0.3 mm. No effect.
> 3) Reset the distributor rotor to full "aft" (i.e., opposite the
> direction of rotation) position. No effect.
> 4) Reset distributor rotor to mid-position. Decreased drop on
> Right mag
> to about 8.5%.
> 5) Reset distributor rotor to full "forward" position (i.e., in
> direction of rotation). Decreased drop on Right mag to about 7.7-7.9%.
>
> This is the best that I can get. Obviously, this isn't good enough...
>
> Any ideas on what the problem is and (more importantly to me),
> what the
> solution is? Preferably without recourse to "buy a new mag"...
>
> I'm stumped.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott Poehlmann
> Yak 55M p; Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
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Just a point for those of you that might have the JTY-1 regulator
installed in your CJ, I would not attempt to flash the field of the
generator with the regulator connected. Remove the cannon plug from the
regulator then reinstall after the generator work is done. The
regulator does not appear to be real robust.
Frank
CJ6-A
N23021
Message 10
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| Subject: | Excessive R Mag Drop |
I had the same problem with my Yak50, MTV prop, M14R with 450 HP. Now with
new brake pads, problem is solved. It should be possible to adjust the brake
settings though.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: maandag 31 augustus 2009 17:06
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Excessive R Mag Drop
Good point William. Thanks for sharing that because it is important.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: William Halverson <mailto:william@netpros.net>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Excessive R Mag Drop
When I try to do my run up at 70% RPM my brakes won't hold. Details are
400HP, MTV 3 blade prop, and Cleveland 6" wheels/brakes.
Anybody else have that problem? I would think the 440 HP engine makes it
even worse ...
Thanks!
William Halverson
YAK55
At 05:24 AM 8/31/2009, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
Scott,
A couple of comments based on your post. These comments will most likely
not change the mag drop. But I believe are important.
- Mag checks are typically done at 70%, although the large mag drop would
most likely not change by doing the mag check at 60-65%.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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