Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:15 AM - Re: Yak 52/55/18T Shutters & Ring (Don Milbourn)
2. 09:13 AM - Over-priming (Richard Goode)
3. 09:14 AM - Engine intake shutters (Richard Goode)
4. 09:49 AM - Re: Yak 52/55/18T Shutters & Ring (doug sapp)
5. 10:21 AM - Re: Over-priming (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 10:34 AM - Re: Engine intake shutters (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 01:42 PM - Re: Over-priming (dabear)
8. 02:45 PM - Re: Over-priming (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 06:56 PM - Re: Over-priming (William Halverson)
10. 07:52 PM - Engine Problem (Dennis Von Ruden)
11. 08:47 PM - Re: Engine Problem (ronald wasson)
12. 09:41 PM - Re: Engine Problem (William Halverson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52/55/18T Shutters & Ring |
You might try Culps Specialties.
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52/55/18T Shutters & Ring
In a message dated 9/15/2009 11:40:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
byronmfox@gmail.com writes:
Me too! !
My system's is worn out. I need the two rings that rotate the fins.
The fins are fine and the outside ring is good too. But two inter rings
are bad.
I am trying to have them tig welded to build up metal in the worn out
areas. I'll than grain and re-drill them back to specks. But if there
is some parts out,
I'm open off the list.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
For our M14P conversion, we're hunting for Yak 52,55 or 18T shutters
and ring. Please contact me off-line. Thanks, Blitz
415-307-2405
Sent from my iPhone
Message 2
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Over-priming
We have just lost a Sukhoi in Europe, after over-priming on start-up.
We have had several before, leading to scorched engines and cowlings,
but, in this case, the aeroplane was totally destroyed.
So be warned, and only prime to the extent that is absolutely necessary
to start. Also, if a fire does start, then it is vital to keep cranking
the engine over, even if it does not start. This will suck excess fuel
and vapour into the engine, and probably put the fire out if it is
small.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Engine intake shutters |
Engine intake shutters
As a principle I think that it is a big mistake to remove the shutters.
Obviously without them, you have the relatively small inconvenience of a
longer warm-up time, but the real problem is that of excessive cooling
in descent. If, coming from cruising altitude to land, you will
definitely over-cool the engine, unless you keep a lot of power on all
the way down which is not really what you want to do.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52/55/18T Shutters & Ring |
Guys,If you flying a CJ with the 285 engine, I have 100% of the parts to
either build a set from scratch or overhaul the CJ gill shutters.
However if your flying a CJ with a M14P engine the *INNER* center ring which
bolts to the nose case has a different bolt pattern than the 285 hp ring so
it *is not interchangeable**.* However, the other center ring (the *OUTER*one)
*is the same and can be used in both the 360 hp and the 285 hp gill systems*.
I have them in stock, factory new, order p/n H2-6341-05, Ring, Shutter,
outer center price is $100.00 each.
Please contact me off line.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
509-826-4610
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Don Milbourn <valleyauto@clearwire.net>wrote:
> You might try Culps Specialties.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* cjpilot710@aol.com
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:00 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Yak 52/55/18T Shutters & Ring
>
> In a message dated 9/15/2009 11:40:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> byronmfox@gmail.com writes:
>
> Me too! !
>
> My system's is worn out. I need the two rings that rotate the fins. The
> fins are fine and the outside ring is good too. But two inter rings are
> bad.
>
> I am trying to have them tig welded to build up metal in the worn out
> areas. I'll than grain and re-drill them back to specks. But if there is
> some parts out,
>
> I'm open off the list.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
> For our M14P conversion, we're hunting for Yak 52,55 or 18T shutters
> and ring. Please contact me off-line. Thanks, Blitz
>
> 415-307-2405
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 5
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For what it is worth....
All M-14's that I deal with have the intake drain kit installed.
Typically I prime the engine with that drain left OPEN. I pull the prop
through after priming and at the same time......if I have over-primed
the engine, the excess fuel simply runs out the intake drain. I suppose
that it is possible that you could fill a cylinder up with fuel anyway,
but it's pretty hard to do.. .and it has never happened to me, and I do
tend to over-prime. Of course I close it before starting... But it
remains an effective way to keep from SERIOUSLY over-priming the engine.
I offer it only as a thought, but it does work for me.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Over-priming
Over-priming
We have just lost a Sukhoi in Europe, after over-priming on start-up.
We have had several before, leading to scorched engines and cowlings,
but, in this case, the aeroplane was totally destroyed.
So be warned, and only prime to the extent that is absolutely necessary
to start. Also, if a fire does start, then it is vital to keep cranking
the engine over, even if it does not start. This will suck excess fuel
and vapour into the engine, and probably put the fire out if it is
small.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine intake shutters |
In principle, I agree (as well) that it is a big mistake to remove the
shutters.
That said, I have 900 hours on my M-14P running without shutters.
I also have put the thermostat back into the oil cooler which
SIGNIFICANTLY reduces warm up time, although it comes at a price.....
That being no oil by-pass valve if the oil cooler somehow becomes
blocked! Of course another plus is that oil is not SLAMMED THROUGH the
cooler when it is cold and thick as sludge. There are of course pro's
and con's to doing anything and it ends up being a balance of choices.
I got my YAK-50 without the shutters, and it would have been a massive
project to put them back in. Not knowing any better at the time, I just
flew the airplane. On the 50, the front cowl ring is actually
stabilized by those shutters, so with them removed, vibration ended up
causing damage to the cowl support ring, and eventually the cowls
themselves. This was corrected by adding four additional support rods
running from the engine case out to the cowl support ring, using the
original studs that held the shutter control ring. This corrected all
the cowl support issues, and has been done by others as well, with some
very nice designs along the way.
No arguments about the dangers of rapid descents at idle from altitude
and the danger of shock cooling. Knowing that, you need to keep power
on the engine and keep the cylinder head temp at least in the yellow!
Not hard to do though.
Perfectly working shutters are great... And I love em. However,
everyone also knows that it is pretty darn easy for those shutters to
jam, and if they do that when they are closed and then you have to run
power to get to the closest airport, you can end up COOKING the engine,
which causes just as much damage as shock cooling. This has actually
happened to more than one YAK owner.
Bottom line... Maintaining perfect engine temps will obviously extend
the lifetime of the engine. My YAK-50 has run it's whole life (with me
anyway) not having them and is still running GREAT, with good
compression. But... I take care of it and am cautious ... And have
learned how to operate it without the shutters. I also do not fly it
much when the temps go below 38 degrees "F" or so.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Engine intake shutters
Engine intake shutters
As a principle I think that it is a big mistake to remove the shutters.
Obviously without them, you have the relatively small inconvenience of a
longer warm-up time, but the real problem is that of excessive cooling
in descent. If, coming from cruising altitude to land, you will
definitely over-cool the engine, unless you keep a lot of power on all
the way down which is not really what you want to do.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Over-priming |
It is interesting how much difference their is with starting techniques for
the M14P (and the 285). I don't recommend all the getting up and down
between the cockpit (priming, pulling through, etc)
I've put 700 hours on the M14P between my yak-52 and the CJ. I've always
started it the same and it "almost always" starts on the 2nd or 3rd blade
unless there is an issue (nitrogen only in the system, mags off in the back,
etc). I believe if the air distribution system and spark system is correct
on the M14P, it will start just fine by
1. Pulling through (checking for H-lock)
2. Closing the intake drain
3. Getting in the cockpit
4. Fuel pressure (wobble pump)
5. Prime 3 times (with fuel; it make take a shot or two for the primer to
fill with fuel); plus 1 shot of prime for every 10degC below 50 of Oil temp)
6. Hit the starter, and turn the mags on after she starts.
The only thing I've changed over the years is to leave the primer in the
cocked position (not directly strait) until the engine is fully started. I
then move it to the locked position.
That is my opinion, your mileage may vary.
Dabear
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over-priming
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> For what it is worth....
>
> All M-14's that I deal with have the intake drain kit installed.
> Typically I prime the engine with that drain left OPEN. I pull the prop
> through after priming and at the same time......if I have over-primed
> the engine, the excess fuel simply runs out the intake drain. I suppose
> that it is possible that you could fill a cylinder up with fuel anyway,
> but it's pretty hard to do.. .and it has never happened to me, and I do
> tend to over-prime. Of course I close it before starting... But it
> remains an effective way to keep from SERIOUSLY over-priming the engine.
> I offer it only as a thought, but it does work for me.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:36 AM
> To: YAK USA LIST
> Subject: Yak-List: Over-priming
>
> Over-priming
>
> We have just lost a Sukhoi in Europe, after over-priming on start-up.
>
> We have had several before, leading to scorched engines and cowlings,
> but, in this case, the aeroplane was totally destroyed.
>
> So be warned, and only prime to the extent that is absolutely necessary
> to start. Also, if a fire does start, then it is vital to keep cranking
> the engine over, even if it does not start. This will suck excess fuel
> and vapour into the engine, and probably put the fire out if it is
> small.
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Herefordshire
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Over-priming |
Do you have the throttle completely closed when you hit the start button
the first time?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: dabear
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over-priming
It is interesting how much difference their is with starting
techniques for
the M14P (and the 285). I don't recommend all the getting up and down
between the cockpit (priming, pulling through, etc)
I've put 700 hours on the M14P between my yak-52 and the CJ. I've
always
started it the same and it "almost always" starts on the 2nd or 3rd
blade
unless there is an issue (nitrogen only in the system, mags off in the
back,
etc). I believe if the air distribution system and spark system is
correct
on the M14P, it will start just fine by
1. Pulling through (checking for H-lock)
2. Closing the intake drain
3. Getting in the cockpit
4. Fuel pressure (wobble pump)
5. Prime 3 times (with fuel; it make take a shot or two for the
primer to
fill with fuel); plus 1 shot of prime for every 10degC below 50 of Oil
temp)
6. Hit the starter, and turn the mags on after she starts.
The only thing I've changed over the years is to leave the primer in
the
cocked position (not directly strait) until the engine is fully
started. I
then move it to the locked position.
That is my opinion, your mileage may vary.
Dabear
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over-priming
Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> For what it is worth....
>
> All M-14's that I deal with have the intake drain kit installed.
> Typically I prime the engine with that drain left OPEN. I pull the
prop
> through after priming and at the same time......if I have
over-primed
> the engine, the excess fuel simply runs out the intake drain. I
suppose
> that it is possible that you could fill a cylinder up with fuel
anyway,
> but it's pretty hard to do.. .and it has never happened to me, and I
do
> tend to over-prime. Of course I close it before starting... But it
> remains an effective way to keep from SERIOUSLY over-priming the
engine.
> I offer it only as a thought, but it does work for me.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Goode
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:36 AM
> To: YAK USA LIST
> Subject: Yak-List: Over-priming
>
> Over-priming
>
> We have just lost a Sukhoi in Europe, after over-priming on
start-up.
>
> We have had several before, leading to scorched engines and
cowlings,
> but, in this case, the aeroplane was totally destroyed.
>
> So be warned, and only prime to the extent that is absolutely
necessary
> to start. Also, if a fire does start, then it is vital to keep
cranking
> the engine over, even if it does not start. This will suck excess
fuel
> and vapour into the engine, and probably put the fire out if it is
> small.
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Herefordshire
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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I recall the manual says to follow this procedure for cold start
priming/starting:
1. Three strokes set to pipe
2. Three blades
3. Three strokes set to pipe
4. Three blades
5. Three strokes set to pipe
6. Three strokes set to main
7. Push the start button.
9. Mags to both when she catches, stroke on main if needed.
10. Prime to middle/locked position.
Could that over prime the engine?
At 10:21 AM 9/17/2009, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
>Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
>For what it is worth....
>
>All M-14's that I deal with have the intake drain kit installed.
>Typically I prime the engine with that drain left OPEN. I pull the prop
>through after priming and at the same time......if I have over-primed
>the engine, the excess fuel simply runs out the intake drain. I suppose
>that it is possible that you could fill a cylinder up with fuel anyway,
>but it's pretty hard to do.. .and it has never happened to me, and I do
>tend to over-prime. Of course I close it before starting... But it
>remains an effective way to keep from SERIOUSLY over-priming the engine.
>I offer it only as a thought, but it does work for me.
Message 10
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I took off this evening in my stock CJ and experience a significant reducti
on in engine power as I was turning crosswind. I didn't have time to look a
t all the gauges, but my power did come back to full. Don't know if crankin
g on the wobble pump had any effect. My gear was up and I was concentrating
on my airspeed and altitude. I realized that rather than land normally, I
could land "downwind" on a zero wind evening (5500 foot runway). No other p
roblems.
The engine acted normal while taxiing back to the hangar and during shutd
own procedures.
1) Full power came back in flight.
2) Had approximately 24 gallons of fuel. (15 in starboard, 9 in port)
3) Normal run up.
4) Fuel was ON.
5) Primer was locked.
6) Fuel pressure on take-off was in the high green (which has been no
rmal over my 30 hours in this aircraft) on the take-off roll.
7) I have the JPI 700 Analyzer installed and everything looked normal
on the take-off roll.
8) Drained fuel from the sump before flight and it was clean.
9) Remote chance for icing today in Minnesota...79=B0F and low humidi
ty. The needle was not even close to the yellow on the gauge.
10) Did notice however...that the engine ran a bit rougher between 1200
and1600 RPM during the run up.
Back in the hangar, I drained the fuel screen on the firewall and found n
othing. The aircraft was going in for a condition inspection next week. Not
hing out of the ordinary. The engine has 35 hours since the first Chinese o
verhaul and has been running very well since completing the restoration. An
y ideas to discuss with my mechanic tomorrow?
Don't want to do this everyday.
Dennis Von Ruden
General Equipment Company
507.451.5510 (P)
507.451.5511 (F)
dvonruden@generalequip.com
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Problem |
Mag coil going bad. Comes and goes. Scared me silly till I found it.
One mag misfiring can affect the motor big time. Friend chased this
problem on his 52 for years. He helped me find mine and switch Mags.
Sounded like the motor quit it was so bad. Mag fixed it.
On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Dennis Von Ruden wrote:
> I took off this evening in my stock CJ and experience a significant
> reduction in engine power as I was turning crosswind. I didn=92t have
> time to look at all the gauges, but my power did come back to full.
> Don=92t know if cranking on the wobble pump had any effect. My gear
> was up and I was concentrating on my airspeed and altitude. I
> realized that rather than land normally, I could land =93downwind=94
on
> a zero wind evening (5500 foot runway). No other problems.
>
> The engine acted normal while taxiing back to the hangar and during
> shutdown procedures.
>
> 1) Full power came back in flight.
> 2) Had approximately 24 gallons of fuel. (15 in starboard, 9 in
> port)
> 3) Normal run up.
> 4) Fuel was ON.
> 5) Primer was locked.
> 6) Fuel pressure on take-off was in the high green (which has
> been normal over my 30 hours in this aircraft) on the take-off roll.
> 7) I have the JPI 700 Analyzer installed and everything looked
> normal on the take-off roll.
> 8) Drained fuel from the sump before flight and it was clean.
> 9) Remote chance for icing today in Minnesota=8579=B0F and low
> humidity. The needle was not even close to the yellow on the gauge.
> 10) Did notice however=85that the engine ran a bit rougher between
> 1200 and1600 RPM during the run up.
>
> Back in the hangar, I drained the fuel screen on the firewall and
> found nothing. The aircraft was going in for a condition inspection
> next week. Nothing out of the ordinary. The engine has 35 hours
> since the first Chinese overhaul and has been running very well
> since completing the restoration. Any ideas to discuss with my
> mechanic tomorrow?
>
> Don=92t want to do this everyday.
>
> <image002.gif>Dennis Von Ruden
>
>
> General Equipment Company
> 507.451.5510 (P)
> 507.451.5511 (F)
> dvonruden@generalequip.com
>
>
>
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> If you received this e mail in error, and are not the recipient(s)
> or responsible for receiving this e mail for the recipient, please
> inform the sender immediately, delete the e mail and any attachment
> (s) associated.
> This email has been scanned by Barracuda - Email Security System.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Problem |
Hmmm ... did it sound/feel different than going to one mag while in the
air?
At 08:45 PM 9/17/2009, ronald wasson wrote:
>Mag coil going bad. Comes and goes. Scared me
>silly till I found it. One mag misfiring can
>affect the motor big time. Friend chased this
>problem on his 52 for years. He helped me find
>mine and switch Mags. Sounded like the motor quit it was so bad. Mag fixed
it.
>
>
>On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Dennis Von Ruden wrote:
>
>>I took off this evening in my stock CJ and
>>experience a significant reduction in engine
>>power as I was turning crosswind. I didn=92t have
>>time to look at all the gauges, but my power
>>did come back to full. Don=92t know if cranking
>>on the wobble pump had any effect. My gear was
>>up and I was concentrating on my airspeed and
>>altitude. I realized that rather than land
>>normally, I could land =93downwind=94 on a zero
>>wind evening (5500 foot runway). No other problems.
>>
>>The engine acted normal while taxiing back to
>>the hangar and during shutdown procedures.
>>
>>1) Full power came back in flight.
>>2) Had approximately 24 gallons of fuel. (15 in starboard, 9 in port)
>>3) Normal run up.
>>4) Fuel was ON.
>>5) Primer was locked.
>>6) Fuel pressure on take-off was in the
>>high green (which has been normal over my 30
>>hours in this aircraft) on the take-off roll.
>>7) I have the JPI 700 Analyzer installed
>>and everything looked normal on the take-off roll.
>>8) Drained fuel from the sump before flight and it was clean.
>>9) Remote chance for icing today in
>>Minnesota=8579=B0F and low humidity. The needle was
>>not even close to the yellow on the gauge.
>>10) Did notice however=85that the engine ran a
>>bit rougher between 1200 and1600 RPM during the run up.
>>
>>Back in the hangar, I drained the fuel screen
>>on the firewall and found nothing. The aircraft
>>was going in for a condition inspection next
>>week. Nothing out of the ordinary. The engine
>>has 35 hours since the first Chinese overhaul
>>and has been running very well since completing
>>the restoration. Any ideas to discuss with my mechanic tomorrow?
>>
>>Don=92t want to do this everyday.
>>
>><image002.gif>Dennis Von Ruden
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>General Equipment Company
>>507.451.5510 (P)
>>507.451.5511 (F)
>><mailto:dvonruden@generalequip.com>dvonruden@generalequip.com
>>
>>
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