Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:38 AM - Re: Over- priming (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
2. 01:13 PM - Yak stick needed (Noplugs)
3. 03:52 PM - Oil Feed Tube (Craig Payne)
4. 11:06 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
5. 11:13 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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The question is why that is happening. Oil is oil. It is going to do
what it does, no matter how the aircraft is jacked, leveled, or
whatever. Changing the angle is only going to impact where that oil
ends up. At the extreme side, if we had the tail of the aircraft
pointing straight up, ... As in fully nose down, it would take a lot in
order to get any oil into the intake tubes. Thus all the oil stays in
the cylinders where it originally came from, or flows out the exhaust.
Sorta.
At the other extreme, with the nose straight up, any oil from the
cylinders is going to try to go out an open valve if it can. If the
intake is open, it will flow back into the intake tubes.
At angles in-between those two extremes, you will get various amounts of
oil into the intake tubes.
If there is too much oil in the cylinders, you are going to have to end
up pulling spark plugs, or you bend a rod.
If there is too much oil LEFT in the intake tubes when you go to start
it, you take a chance of gulping in a big slug of oil and then bending a
rod again.
Seems to me that either thing is a bad thing.
The real fix is to totally prevent oil from getting into the damn engine
in the first place. The factory method to prevent that is a ball check
valve in the accessory drive oil pump area. Having this check valve
working properly prevents oil from flowing through the oil pump gear and
then into the engine itself. Making that valve work perfectly is hard
to do. You can make it work BETTER, but it's hard to make it work
PERFECTLY.
In the end, the very best method to prevent this is to just TURN OFF THE
OIL SUPPLY! Kevin Kimball sells a valve that you can put in the supply
oil line that does just that. It also includes an electric position
switch that you can tie into your start circuit to help prevent starting
the airplane with the oil system shut off, which is obviously a bad
thing. Clearly, the valve is the best method to stop all this nonsense,
to where you can pull through NO blades if you want to, and be able and
jump in and start the aircraft just like a Cessna. (Heaven forbid!) Of
course the danger is that if you screw up, you just ruined the engine.
Of course if you start up with a hydraulic lock, you ALSO will destroy
at least one cylinder, and possibly the whole engine as well. In the
meantime we yank the prop through, carefully checking for "how it feels"
for the fist 8 blades or so. You can bend a rod simply by pulling it
through too hard with oil in those cylinders!
I think a manual shut off valve is the right choice for me. It also
means you won't need a sump drain pump, or bleed system, no jacks under
the tail, nothing. Just land, shut off the engine, turn off the valve.
YOU'RE DONE. Comes time to fly again, turn on the valve, start the
engine. Personally, I would tie the electrical switch not only into the
starter circuit, but also to be a big red "DON'T BE AN IDIOT" light in
the cockpit. Big flashing red one.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
M.D.
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 20:21
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
--> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Mark,
Instead of the nose sitting at 13.4 deg, the angle is decreased to
approximately 8-9 degrees with the jack under the tail. The plane is not
level with this system. I came up with the idea when I pulled blades on
morning after the palne had been sitting for a couple of weeks. When I
pulled 14 blades, I got a fair amount oil out then just as I ready to
close the drain, another few globules of oil began to floe.
Since I have been doing this, I seldom have a problem with the continued
drainage of oil since that time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
If you have intake drains, is it not better to let the oil flow out of
the cylinders, into the intakes and then out the drain? Is it better to
try and contain the oil in the cylinder....?? I don't quite get why
keeping the engine level would INCREASE the oil out of the intake
drains. What is the logic behind that? No M-14 equipped tail wheel
airplane that I know of EVER jacks their plane up to keep it level that
I know of Doc. Where did you come up with that?
On the other hand, if you keep the engine level, more of the oil will
stay in the cylinder, decreasing the oil coming out of the intake drain
(as you said) when you pull it through, but INCREASING the amount of oil
coming out the exhaust, and increasing the chance of hydraulic lock.
I must be missing something here. Not disagreeing, I just don't get it.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:21
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
Very good idea, I'll try that too.
Jan
YK50 RA2005K
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
M.D.
Sent: woensdag 30 september 2009 15:09
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
For the 50's, I jack my tail up about 2 feet with a standard hydraulic
floor jack if she is going to sit for a few days. Doing that does
increase the oil drainage out of the intake drains . I have found I have
less oil draining out of the intakes during pull through doing this.
The next item on the agenda is to install a sump drain line to plug into
a "clean container" for drainage when she is going to sit for period of
time.
Viperdoc
YAK 50 N78YK
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over- priming
I don't think that it would affect priming but it does increase the
susceptiblity of the tail-wheel planes to hydraulic-lock,since the oil
can pool more easily in the intake tubes.
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:17 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
This may be a ridiculous statement, but it dawns on me that not
all of
these engines sit at the same angle when mounted in the
aircraft. For
example, the YAK-50 obviously sits canted back, while on the 52
it is
fairly level. Would this result in less fuel going down into
the top
cylinder or not? Just wondering.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug
sapp
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:14
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over- priming
All,
During a conversation with the folks in China who are in the
know with
respect to what is done to their engines at overhaul stated that
it is
the top clys which are always in the poorest condition when they
receive
the engines for overhaul. They confirmed that this was due to
overpriming. All food for thought.
Doug
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Richard Goode
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
In my view ten blades are not enough - I would suggest at least
fifteen.
The point of my method is that it prevents the need of getting
in and out of the aircraft, which one really does not want to do
at the
best of times particularly if it is cold/raining.
So if the engine is in reasonable condition; the carburettor
primed; 3/5 pumps to the cylinder, the engine should start
within a
revolution of the prop on every occasion.
The big mistake is to treat the air start as a form of
starter-motor.
The engine will either start, which is fine; kick-back, which
means it is over-primed; or not fire which means that it is
under
primed.
IF it does kick-back then switch everything off; and now you do
need to get out, and wind the prop through (say) six
revolutions, and
then start again.
If it is under primed, then give it some more prime.
The essence of it is that everything can be done from inside the
cockpit.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax p; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
=======================<; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Yak stick needed |
I am looking for a brake lever (with the parking lock) and stick grip form a Yak
50 series. The tube and lower bearings are not a requirement. If anyone would
like to get rid on one, PM me.
qas44n@yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265910#265910
Message 3
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I need an Oil Feed Tube for the V530 paddle blade prop. Any of you Yakista's who
went to an MT prop may have one laying around....I need it.
No, the Huosai oil feed tube will not fit, It's too short. Of course, SIZE doesn't
matter in today's world of medical miracles and political correctness; but
in propellers it does make a difference.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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Yak-List Usage Guidelines
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The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
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the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
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- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
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terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
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- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
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easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
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can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
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"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
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- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
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other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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[This is an automated posting.]
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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