Yak-List Digest Sat 10/03/09

Yak-List Digest Archive

Sat 10/03/09

Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:43 AM - Re: Yak Radio (psb777)
     2. 06:03 AM - Re: oil shut-off valve (psb777)
     3. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Yak Radio (Yak Pilot)
     4. 12:22 PM - Re: Yak Radio (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
     5. 01:22 PM - Re: oil shut-off valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
     6. 01:22 PM - Oil Shut off valves (Yak Pilot)
     7. 01:44 PM - Re: oil shut-off valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
 
 
 

Message 1


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Time: 05:43:35 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Yak Radio
From: "psb777" <matronics.com@beardsell.com>      
      
      Didier, I have a similar radio configuration to you but the opposite problem with
      the Baklan radio.  The Garmin radio is fine.  I can always hear very well on
      the Baklan radio but usually the transmissions from it are reported as inaudible
      or garbled and so I no longer transmit using it.  Also, in flight, when talking
      on the Baklan radio there is a loud noise in my headset.  On the ground
      the Baklan radio works fine.  It feels to me as if a minor adjustment would make
      things work a lot better.  But I know very little!  The local avionics chap
      has had a look and can find nothing obviously wrong. Regards, Paul
      
      Paul Beardsell HA-YAB Yak-18T
      
      --------
      Paul Beardsell
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266236#266236
      
      

Message 2


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Time: 06:03:03 AM PST US
Subject: Re: oil shut-off valve
From: "psb777" <matronics.com@beardsell.com>      
      
      The last thing I am suggesting is that we should not be cautious.  But: 18 blades?
      You seem to relate this to 9, the number of cylinders.  Are you saying that
      if the engine had 7 cylinders you would pull 14 blades?  Every 720 degrees
      of engine rotation takes every cylinder in the engine through a full cycle, no
      matter how many cylinders there are.  Also, the prop is geared 0.658 to the engine
      so 18 (two-bladed prop) blade pulls is 9 prop revolutions or 13 engine revolutions.
      
      
      I have the inlet manifold drains and I have been pulling 9 blades, that's 4.5 prop
      revs or just short of 7 engine revs.  Or at least 3 inlet strokes and at least
      3 exhaust strokes on every cylinder.  As often as not I see no oil.  If I
      see more than the slightest dribble I will wait and pull again.  But I think
      I am being overly cautious.  My experience suggests if there is no oil by blade
      5 there will be no oil by blade 9.  On the other hand I don't want to feel I
      am lacking in engine care by not doing 18 blades like you.  
      
      There should be some rationality behind this.  If(!) there is no logical reasoning
      behind the advice to pull 18 then why is that good enough?  Why don't you
      pull 20 blades?
      
      And if I am pulling 9 but only 5 can *properly* be argued to be necessary, then
      why pull 9?  (I will keep on pulling 9!)
      
      Paul Beardsell HA-YAB Yak-18T
      
      --------
      Paul Beardsell
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266242#266242
      
      

Message 3


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Time: 12:08:55 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yak Radio      
      I would like to confirm you are running a Baklan.- Not the panel mounted 
      radio like in the YAK-50.- 
      -
      Anyway, from what you describe, there is a problem in the microphone audio 
      circuit for the radio.- As you know, when you talk you hear yourself in t
      he headset.- This is called side-tone.- Your receive audio, what you he
      ar from other people, is working fine on the ground and in the air.- Howe
      ver, in the air when you talk, you hear yourself with noise in your headpho
      nes and the ground folks report your transmissions as garbled.- This clea
      rly describes a microphone audio problem.- 
      -
      Next time you fly, do this:- After airborne, disconnect the microphone pl
      ug of your headset from the aircraft.- If this is a standard type system 
      it will be the smaller of the two plugs.- If it is Russian, then I have n
      o idea.- Leave your headphones plugged in.- 
      -
      Now push your PTT switch (push to talk) or the transmit button, whatever yo
      u want to call it.- If your radio transmits and you hear no noise at all 
      in your headset, then you have found the problem, it is a bad headset. 
      -
      If the noise persists, you have eliminated the headset as the problem.- T
      he issue now is whether the noise is in the wiring TO the radio, or in the 
      radio itself.- The easiest way to determine that is to swap out the radio
      .- However, obviously that can be hard to do.- My guess is that it is i
      n the aircraft wiring.- Some of that old Russian wiring is pretty flimsy 
      and goes through some junction blocks that can be suspect.- The fact that
       it only happens in flight makes it all the more difficult.- I would be c
      urious whether it happens on the ground with the engine running at high pow
      er.- 
      -
      Anyway, that's a start.- And do not forget to disconnect all other headse
      ts in the aircraft before you run this test. 
      -
      Also, in the Baklan system, there are really three things that could cause 
      this:
      -
      1.- The headsets
      2.- The wiring
      3.- The audio interface panel
      4.- The radio.- 
      -
      Again, it could be the radio, but more likely the audio interface panel whi
      ch is kind of underneath the mount, and finally the wiring.- 
      -
      I doubt it is an adjustment.- Just my 2 cents. 
      -
      Mark Bitterlich
      -
      
      --- On Sat, 10/3/09, psb777 <matronics.com@beardsell.com> wrote:
      
      
      From: psb777 <matronics.com@beardsell.com>
      Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak Radio
      
      
      
      Didier, I have a similar radio configuration to you but the opposite proble
      m with the Baklan radio.- The Garmin radio is fine.- I can always hear 
      very well on the Baklan radio but usually the transmissions from it are rep
      orted as inaudible or garbled and so I no longer transmit using it.- Also
      , in flight, when talking on the Baklan radio there is a loud noise in my h
      eadset.- On the ground the Baklan radio works fine.- It feels to me as 
      if a minor adjustment would make things work a lot better.- But I know ve
      ry little!- The local avionics chap has had a look and can find nothing o
      bviously wrong. Regards, Paul
      
      Paul Beardsell HA-YAB Yak-18T
      
      --------
      Paul Beardsell
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266236#266236
      
      
      le, List Admin.
      
      

Message 4


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Time: 12:22:43 PM PST US
Subject: Yak Radio
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>      
      
      Hello Didier.  
      
      First, did the technician add an audio panel, or did he just switch things with
      relays?  I suspect relays.  This is not something that can be troubleshot remotely,
      but there are some things you can try.  Do you have side-tone?  When you
      transmit, can you hear yourself talk perfectly, or is it very weak.  
      
      If it is weak, or not there, then you simply have a receive audio line not connected
      correctly.  
      
      This problem is something that can be fixed, but a person needs to be there with
      the proper test equipment to do it.  
      
      Possibly someone else has some quick suggestions dealing with the audio interface
      panel that is located on the radio rack, but nothing really simple comes to
      mind.  It is going to require some testing.  Your avionics tech should be called
      back into action I am afraid. 
      
      Mark Bitterlich
      
      
      ________________________________
      
      From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Didier Blouzard
      Sent: Fri 10/2/2009 4:12 PM
      Subject: Yak-List: Yak Radio
      
      
      Hello to all,
      
      I have a question regarding my radio.
      I have installed both US and russian radio in my plane (overhauled Baklan 5).
      My operator set a switch to change between the US and the russian radio and changed
      the headset plugs to western plugs in order to use regular headset.
      My problem is the following.
      On the US radio, no problems : Emission's fine and reception's fine also.
      On the russian radio, emission seems to be perfect (better than with the US radio)
      but when it comes to listening I can't hear anything. A sound that's so faint
      that it is not understandable.
      I was wondering if some of you had the same problem and of your knowledge is there
      a solution.
      
      Thanks to all and good day
      
      Didier
      Yak18T HA-JAC
      Paris - FRANCE
      
      

Message 5


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Time: 01:22:10 PM PST US
Subject: oil shut-off valve
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>      
      
      Gary that is a completely different shut off valve located at a completely different
      place than I was describing and recommending.  With the valve installed
      as you describe, you are absolutely correct and your recommendation is of course
      valid.  
      
      However, apples and oranges are being compared here.  I will write up another posting
      and be more specific. 
      
      Thanks, 
      
      Mark Bitterlich
      
      
      ________________________________
      
      From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Garry Pope
      Sent: Fri 10/2/2009 12:06 PM
      Subject: Yak-List: oil shut-off valve
      
      
      
      Reference to the oil shut-off valve, I have a manual shut-off valve
      installed in the bottom of my oil sump, (CJ with M14P).  From there, is
      approx 15" of oil line to the oil pump. When I shut down, I open the left
      access panel in the lower left cowling to close the valve (a red warning
      flag is left hanging out of the opening to prevent starting). This leaves
      that amount of oil in the line to siphon thru the pump during the period of
      storage until the next flight. I also have bottom cylinder drains tied to a
      central shut off drain valve, which I manually open and leave draining to a
      clean container during storage between flights. This does help resolve the
      oil-hydraulic problem.
      
      When I prepare for the first flight of the day, I always pull the prop for 9
      full cylinders (18 blades) and  ALWAYS  get oil to drain in varying amounts,
      even with the drain valve left open.  So to sum up, even with the shutoff
      valve, I would NEVER consider starting the M14P (for the first flight of the
      day) without pulling the (18) blades. I would rather be over cautious than
      chance a hydraulic lock.
      
      
      Garry Pope
      N92864
      "Black Bird"
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Yak-List Digest Server" <yak-list@matronics.com>
      Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 2:59 AM
      Subject: Yak-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/01/09
      
      
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      >           ----------------------------------------------------------
      >                           Yak-List Digest Archive
      >                                      ---
      >                     Total Messages Posted Thu 10/01/09: 5
      >           ----------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Today's Message Index:
      > ----------------------
      >
      >     1. 09:38 AM - Re: Over- priming  (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
      > Point, MALS-14 64E)
      >     2. 01:13 PM - Yak stick needed  (Noplugs)
      >     3. 03:52 PM - Oil Feed Tube  (Craig Payne)
      >     4. 11:06 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
      > (Matt Dralle)
      >     5. 11:13 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines  (Matt Dralle)
      >
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 1
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 09:38:54 AM PST US
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      > From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
      > <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      >
      > The question is why that is happening.  Oil is oil.  It is going to do
      > what it does, no matter how the aircraft is jacked, leveled, or
      > whatever.  Changing the angle is only going to impact where that oil
      > ends up.  At the extreme side, if we had the tail of the aircraft
      > pointing straight up, ... As in fully nose down, it would take a lot in
      > order to get any oil into the intake tubes.  Thus all the oil stays in
      > the cylinders where it originally came from, or flows out the exhaust.
      > Sorta.
      >
      > At the other extreme, with the nose straight up, any oil from the
      > cylinders is going to try to go out an open valve if it can.  If the
      > intake is open, it will flow back into the intake tubes.
      >
      > At angles in-between those two extremes, you will get various amounts of
      > oil into the intake tubes.
      >
      > If there is too much oil in the cylinders, you are going to have to end
      > up pulling spark plugs, or you bend a rod.
      >
      > If there is too much oil LEFT in the intake tubes when you go to start
      > it, you take a chance of gulping in a big slug of oil and then bending a
      > rod again.
      >
      > Seems to me that either thing is a bad thing.
      >
      > The real fix is to totally prevent oil from getting into the damn engine
      > in the first place.   The factory method to prevent that is a ball check
      > valve in the accessory drive oil pump area.  Having this check valve
      > working properly prevents oil from flowing through the oil pump gear and
      > then into the engine itself.  Making that valve work perfectly is hard
      > to do.  You can make it work BETTER, but it's hard to make it work
      > PERFECTLY.
      >
      > In the end, the very best method to prevent this is to just TURN OFF THE
      > OIL SUPPLY!  Kevin Kimball sells a valve that you can put in the supply
      > oil line that does just that.  It also includes an electric position
      > switch that you can tie into your start circuit to help prevent starting
      > the airplane with the oil system shut off, which is obviously a bad
      > thing.  Clearly, the valve is the best method to stop all this nonsense,
      > to where you can pull through NO blades if you want to, and be able and
      > jump in and start the aircraft just like a Cessna.  (Heaven forbid!)  Of
      > course the danger is that if you screw up, you just ruined the engine.
      > Of course if you start up with a hydraulic lock, you ALSO will destroy
      > at least one cylinder, and possibly the whole engine as well.  In the
      > meantime we yank the prop through, carefully checking for "how it feels"
      > for the fist 8 blades or so.  You can bend a rod simply by pulling it
      > through too hard with oil in those cylinders!
      >
      > I think a manual shut off valve is the right choice for me.  It also
      > means you won't need a sump drain pump, or bleed system, no jacks under
      > the tail, nothing.  Just land, shut off the engine, turn off the valve.
      > YOU'RE DONE.  Comes time to fly again, turn on the valve, start the
      > engine.  Personally, I would tie the electrical switch not only into the
      > starter circuit, but also to be a big red "DON'T BE AN IDIOT" light in
      > the cockpit.  Big flashing red one.
      >
      > Mark Bitterlich
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
      > M.D.
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 20:21
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > --> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
      >
      > Mark,
      > Instead of the nose sitting at 13.4 deg, the angle is decreased to
      > approximately 8-9 degrees with the jack under the tail. The plane is not
      > level with this system. I came up with the idea when I pulled blades on
      > morning after the palne had been sitting for a couple of weeks. When I
      > pulled 14 blades, I got a fair amount oil out then just as I ready to
      > close the drain, another few globules of oil began to floe.
      > Since I have been doing this, I seldom have a problem with the continued
      > drainage of oil since that time.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
      > Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:51 PM
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > --> Point,
      > MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      > If you have intake drains, is it not better to let the oil flow out of
      > the cylinders, into the intakes and then out the drain?  Is it better to
      > try and contain the oil in the cylinder....??  I don't quite get why
      > keeping the engine level would INCREASE the oil out of the intake
      > drains.  What is the logic behind that?  No M-14 equipped tail wheel
      > airplane that I know of EVER jacks their plane up to keep it level that
      > I know of Doc.  Where did you come up with that?
      >
      > On the other hand, if you keep the engine level, more of the oil will
      > stay in the cylinder, decreasing the oil coming out of the intake drain
      > (as you said) when you pull it through, but INCREASING the amount of oil
      > coming out the exhaust, and increasing the chance of hydraulic lock.
      >
      > I must be missing something here.  Not disagreeing, I just don't get it.
      >
      >
      > Mark
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:21
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > Very good idea, I'll try that too.
      >
      >
      > Jan
      >
      >
      > YK50 RA2005K
      >
      >
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
      > M.D.
      > Sent: woensdag 30 september 2009 15:09
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      >
      > For the 50's, I jack my tail up about 2 feet with a standard hydraulic
      > floor jack if she is going to sit for a few days. Doing that does
      > increase the oil drainage out of the intake drains . I have found I have
      > less oil draining out of the intakes during pull through doing this.
      >
      > The next item on the agenda is to install a sump drain line to plug into
      > a "clean container" for drainage when she is going to sit for  period of
      > time.
      >
      > Viperdoc
      >
      > YAK 50 N78YK
      >
      >
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:29 AM
      > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      >
      > I don't think that it would affect priming but it does increase the
      > susceptiblity of the tail-wheel planes to hydraulic-lock,since the oil
      > can pool more easily in the intake tubes.
      >
      > Richard
      >
      >
      > Richard Goode Aerobatics
      > Rhodds Farm
      > Lyonshall
      > Hereford
      > HR5 3LW
      > United Kingdom
      >
      >
      > Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120
      > Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129
      > www.russianaeros.com
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
      > <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      > To: yak-list@matronics.com
      >
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:17 PM
      >
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      >
      > Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      > This may be a ridiculous statement, but it dawns on me that not
      > all of
      > these engines sit at the same angle when mounted in the
      > aircraft.  For
      > example, the YAK-50 obviously sits canted back, while on the 52
      > it is
      > fairly level.  Would this result in less fuel going down into
      > the top
      > cylinder or not?  Just wondering.
      >
      > Mark Bitterlich
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug
      > sapp
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:14
      > To: yak-list@matronics.com
      > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > All,
      > During a conversation with the folks in China who are in the
      > know with
      > respect to what is done to their engines at overhaul stated that
      > it is
      > the top clys which are always in the poorest condition when they
      > receive
      > the engines for overhaul.  They confirmed that this was due to
      > overpriming.  All food for thought.
      >
      > Doug
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Richard Goode
      > <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
      >
      >
      > In my view ten blades are not enough - I would suggest at least
      > fifteen.
      >
      > The point of my method is that it prevents the need of getting
      > in and out of the aircraft, which one really does not want to do
      > at the
      > best of times particularly if it is cold/raining.
      >
      > So if the engine is in reasonable condition; the carburettor
      > primed; 3/5 pumps to the cylinder, the engine should start
      > within a
      > revolution of the prop on every occasion.
      >
      > The big mistake is to treat the air start as a form of
      > starter-motor.
      >
      > The engine will either start, which is fine; kick-back, which
      > means it is over-primed; or not fire which means that it is
      > under
      > primed.
      >
      > IF it does kick-back then switch everything off; and now you do
      > need to get out, and wind the prop through (say) six
      > revolutions, and
      > then start again.
      >
      > If it is under primed, then give it some more prime.
      >
      > The essence of it is that everything can be done from inside the
      > cockpit.
      >
      >
      > Richard Goode Aerobatics
      > Rhodds Farm
      > Lyonshall
      > Herefordshire
      > HR5 3LW
      > United Kingdom
      >
      > Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
      > Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
      > www.russianaeros.com
      >
      >
      > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
      > tp://forums.matronics.com
      > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >
      >
      > --
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      > Doug Sapp LLC
      > 18B Riverview Road
      > Omak WA 98841
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      >
      >
      > Time: 01:13:25 PM PST US
      > Subject: Yak-List: Yak stick needed
      > From: "Noplugs" <qas44n@yahoo.com>
      >
      >
      > I am looking for a brake lever (with the parking lock) and stick grip form
      > a Yak
      > 50 series. The tube and lower bearings are not a requirement. If anyone
      > would
      > like to get rid on one, PM me.
      > qas44n@yahoo.com
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265910#265910
      >
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 3
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 03:52:42 PM PST US
      > From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
      > Subject: Yak-List: Oil Feed Tube
      >
      > I need an Oil Feed Tube for the V530 paddle blade prop. Any of you
      > Yakista's who
      > went to an MT prop may have one laying around....I need it.
      >
      > No, the Huosai oil feed tube will not fit, It's too short. Of course, SIZE
      > doesn't
      > matter in today's world of medical miracles and political correctness; but
      > in propellers it does make a difference.
      >
      > Craig Payne
      > cpayne@joimail.com
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 4
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 11:06:44 PM PST US
      > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
      > Subject: Yak-List: Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
      >
      >
      > Dear Listers,
      >
      > Please read over the Yak-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.  The
      > complete Yak-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
      > following URL:
      >
      >   http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > Matt Dralle
      > Matronics Email List Administrator
      >
      >
      > [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such
      > as
      >         Courier.  Proportional fonts will cause display formatting
      > errors. ]
      >
      >
      >   This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
      >
      >
      >        ************************************************************
      >        ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
      >        ************************************************************
      >
      >
      > PLEASE READ.  This document contains Yak-List policies and information
      > for new and old subscribers.  Understanding the Yak-List policies will
      > minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Yak-List
      > running smoothly for all of us.
      >
      >
      > ******************************************
      > *** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
      > ******************************************
      >
      >   There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
      >   one is described in detailed below.  However, using the List Navigator
      >   you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
      >   List.  The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
      >
      >
      > ****************************************
      > *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
      > ****************************************
      >
      >   Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
      >   select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from.  You
      >   may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
      >   your email address as it is subscribed to the List.  Please see the
      >   complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
      >   The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
      >
      >   Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your
      > subsciption
      >   process.  The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption
      > request
      >   was received, and the second confirms that the process has been
      > completed.
      >
      >   You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
      >   The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours.  You cannot
      > post
      >
      >   until you receive the second conformation email message.
      >
      >
      > *****************************
      > *** How to Post a Message ***
      > *****************************
      >
      >   Send an email message to:
      >
      >                  yak-list@matronics.com
      >
      >   Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
      >   to the List.
      >
      >
      > *****************************************************
      > *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
      > *****************************************************
      >
      >   When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
      >   is checked and compared against the current subscription list.  If the
      >   email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
      >   If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
      >   is dumped.  This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
      >   gets posted to the Lists.
      >
      >   Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very
      > important
      >   with regard to the configuration of your email application such as
      > Outlook
      >   or Eudora.  For example, the following two email addresses may be
      >   functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email
      > SPAM
      >   test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
      >
      >                  smith@machine.domain.com
      >
      >                  smith@domain.com
      >
      >  Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
      >  your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
      >  the List.
      >
      >
      > **************************************
      > *** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
      > **************************************
      >
      >   Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and
      > spreadsheets
      >   is supported on the Lists.  There are a number of restrictions, and
      > these
      >   are detailed below.  Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
      >   content of enclosures.
      >
      >   These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
      >   Lists:
      >
      >   1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
      >
      >   2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the
      > Lists.
      >
      >   3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
      >
      >   4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
      >
      >   5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
      >
      >   6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
      >
      >                 bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
      >
      >      All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
      >      sender.  The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
      >      a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
      >
      >   7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to
      > posting
      >      to the List.  This is done in real time and will not slow down
      >      the process of posting the message !!
      >
      >
      >   Here are some rules for posting enclosures.  Failure to abide by these
      > rules
      >
      >   could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the
      > Lists.
      >
      >   1) Pay attention to what you are posting!!  Make sure that the files
      >      you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB).  Remember that
      > there
      >      are still people checking they're email via dial up modem.  If you
      > post
      >      30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on
      > these
      >      folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
      >
      >   2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!!  I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
      >      pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each.  This is just
      >      unacceptable.  Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
      >      down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
      >      file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
      >
      >      Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
      >      you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
      >      scale it down and resave it.  This is a great utility - get it, use
      > it!
      >
      > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
      >      Look for the link "Image Resizer"
      >
      >   3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway.  Do
      > not
      >      post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
      >      And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
      >      questionable. !!
      >
      >   4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000
      > members
      >      subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
      >      to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!!  BE CAREFUL and
      >      BE COURTEOUS!
      >
      >   Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
      >   you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
      >   for long time viewing and availability.
      >
      >
      > *******************
      > *** Digest Mode ***
      > *******************
      >
      >   Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be
      > started.
      >   This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
      >   to the archive file.  It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
      >   and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator
      > consisting
      >   of a line of underscores.
      >
      >   Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
      >   combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email
      > list.
      >
      >   To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
      >   described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
      >
      >   Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest
      > versions
      >   of the List at the same time.  This is perfectly acceptable.
      >
      >  Now some caveats:
      >
      >   * Messages sent to "yak-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
      >     email list.  In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
      >     digest List.
      >
      >   * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List,
      > you
      >     will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
      >     the day.
      >
      >   * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to
      > the
      >     normal list associated with the digest.  Important Note:  Please
      > change
      >     the subject line to reflect the topic of your response!  Also, please
      >     *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
      >
      >
      > ****************************
      > *** List Digest Browser ***
      > ****************************
      >
      >   An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain
      > text
      >   or HTML format.  These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted
      > to
      >   the Digest email list on the given day.  The Digest Archives can be
      > found
      >   at the following location:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/digest
      >
      >
      > *****************************************
      > *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
      > *****************************************
      >
      >   At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a
      > very
      >
      >   small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to
      > archive
      >
      >   it.  In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
      >   message:
      >
      >                 do not archive
      >
      >   Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to
      > List
      >   email distribution as normal.
      >
      >
      > **********************************************
      > ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
      > **********************************************
      >
      >   Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
      >   email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be
      > promptly
      >   removed from the List.  If you discover that you are no longer receiving
      >   messages from the Yak-List, go to the following Web page, and look
      >   for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
      >
      >   The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
      >   automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
      >   caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
      >   full", etc.  If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
      >   Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
      >
      >   If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please
      > feel
      >   free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
      >
      >
      > *******************************
      > *** List Member Information ***
      > *******************************
      >
      >   If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
      >   paper mail address in the following format:
      >
      >                 smith@somehost.com
      >                 Joe Smith
      >                 123 Airport Lane
      >                 Tower, CA 91234-1234
      >                 098-765-1234 w
      >                 123-456-7890 h
      >
      >   Please forward this information to the following email address:
      >
      >                 requests@matronics.com
      >
      >   I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
      >   there are problems with your email address.  The information will NOT
      >   be used for any other commercial purpose.
      >
      >
      > ****************************************
      > *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
      > ****************************************
      >
      >   Recent messages posted to the Yak-List are also made available on
      >   the Web for realtime browsing.  Seven days worth of back postings are
      >   available with this feature.  The messages can be sorted by Subject,
      >   Author, Date, or Message Thread.  The Realtime List Browser indexes are
      >   updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45.  You can also reply to a
      > message
      >
      >   or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming
      > soon).
      >   You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
      >   Browser Interface in view-mode.
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
      >
      >
      > *******************************************
      > *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
      > *******************************************
      >
      >   A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Yak-List content.
      >   content.  The Forums contain all of the same content available via the
      > email
      >
      >   distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as
      > the
      >   List Browse, etc.  Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to
      > the
      >   respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted
      > to
      >   the web Forums.
      >
      >   You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
      >   If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
      >   will need to Register.  This is a simple process that takes only a few
      >   minutes.  A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
      >   main web Forums page.  Note that registering on the Forum web site also
      >   enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well.  You will also
      > need to
      >
      >   Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
      >   Email Distribution of the List, however.
      >
      >   The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following
      > URL:
      >
      >                 http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> 
      >
      >
      > *********************************
      > *** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
      > *********************************
      >
      > In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often
      > accessed
      > information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
      >
      >                 http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> 
      >
      > The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful
      > information
      > for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web
      > page
      >
      > where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the
      > Wiki
      > permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible
      > immediately.
      >
      > While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
      > comfortable building pages.  In that case, simply prepare the text and any
      > images and email it to:
      >
      >                wiki-support@matronics.com
      >
      > One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
      > a Wiki page for you.
      >
      > Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of
      > the
      > Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take
      > that
      > post and convert it into a Wiki page.
      >
      >
      > *********************
      > *** List Archives ***
      > *********************
      >
      >   A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
      >   available on line.  The archive file information is available via the
      >   Web and FTP in a number of forms.  Each are briefly described below:
      >
      >
      >   * Yak-List.FAQ
      >
      >            - Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
      >              page (this document).
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.complete
      >
      >            - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
      >              page breaks inserted between messages.
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
      >
      >            - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections
      > that
      >              can more easily handled.
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
      >
      >            - Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
      >              in PKZIP format.  Use "binary" data transfer methods.
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
      >
      >            - Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
      >              UNIX compress format.  Use "binary" data transfer methods.
      >
      >
      >  Download Via FTP
      >  ----------------
      >
      >   The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
      >   in the "/pub/Archives" directory.  It is updated daily and can be found
      > in
      >   a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case
      > sensitive.)
      >
      >                  ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
      >
      >
      >  Download Via Web
      >  ----------------
      >
      >   The archives are also available via a web listing.  These can be found
      >   toward the bottom of the following web page:
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/archives
      >
      >
      > ******************************************
      > *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
      > ******************************************
      >
      >   All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
      >   Email List Archive Browsing feature.  With this utility, all messages
      >   in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
      >
      >
      > *****************************************
      > **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
      > *****************************************
      >
      >   You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search
      > Engine
      >   to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
      >   List.  The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
      >   available List archives.
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/search
      >
      >
      > ****************************
      > *** File and Photo Share ***
      > ****************************
      >
      >   With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share
      > pictures
      >   and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
      >   copy of it to everyone.  To share your Files and Photos, simply email
      >   them to:
      >
      >                  pictures@matronics.com
      >
      >   !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
      >
      >                  1) Email Lists that they are related to.
      >                  2) Your Full Name.
      >                  3) Your Email Address.
      >                  4) One line Subject description.
      >                  5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
      >                  6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
      >
      >   Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be
      > scanned
      >   for viruses.  Please also note that the process of making the files and
      >   photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try
      > to
      >   process them every few days.
      >
      >   Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will
      > be
      >   sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
      >   Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
      >
      >   For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
      >   Index Page:
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
      >
      >
      > **************************
      > *** List Archive CDROM ***
      > **************************
      >
      >   A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
      >   all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists.  The
      > archives
      >   for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
      >   engine written by a list member.  The CD is burned the day you order it
      >   and will contain archive received  up to the last minute.  They make
      >   great gifts!
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
      >
      >
      > **********************************
      > *** List Support Contributions ***
      > **********************************
      >
      >   The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it
      > members.
      >   You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
      >   annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web
      > pages
      >   associated with the Matronics Email Lists.  Every year during November
      >   I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
      >   I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
      >   are comfortable.
      >
      >   I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during
      > the
      >   Fund Raiser to increase the participation.  The gifts are usually
      > donated
      >   by companies that are themselves List members.
      >
      >   Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
      >   including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
      >   system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
      >   many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
      >   variety of services found here.
      >
      >   Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely
      > voluntary
      >   and non-compulsory.  I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and
      > obtains
      >   value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
      >
      >   Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
      >   subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
      >
      >   The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below.  There
      > are
      >   a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
      >   sending a personal check.
      >
      >   If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
      >   support its continued operation?
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/contributions
      >
      >   Thank you!
      >   Matt Dralle
      >   Email List Administrator
      >
      >
      > ******************************************************************************
      >                     Yak-List Usage Guidelines
      > ******************************************************************************
      >
      > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
      > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules
      > therein.
      > Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
      > in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
      >
      >
      > Yak-List Policy Statement
      >
      > The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
      > things related to this particular discussion group.  The List's goals
      > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
      > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
      > among its members; and to support safe operation.  Reaching these goals
      > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
      > the List.  To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
      >
      >
      > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level.  Do not submit
      >   posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
      >   lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
      >
      > - THINK carefully before you write.  Ask yourself if your post will be
      >   relevant to everyone.  If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
      >
      > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
      >   that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.  Try to be concise and
      >   terse in your posts.  Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
      >   responses.
      >
      > - Keep your signature brief.  Please include your name, email address,
      >   aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location.  A short line
      >   about where you are in the building process is also nice.  Avoid
      >   bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
      >   space in the archive.
      >
      > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
      >   easily obtainable from other widely available sources.  Consult the
      >   web page or FAQ first.
      >
      > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
      >   your response the same as that of the original post.  This makes it
      >   easy to find threads in the archive.
      >
      > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
      >   response.  DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
      >   reader to the topic at hand, but be selective.  The impact that
      >   quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
      >   can not be overstated!
      >
      > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
      >   then go ahead and reply to the List.  Be aware that clicking the
      >   "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
      >   response to the original poster.  You might have to actively address
      >   your response with the original poster's email address.
      >
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      >
      > Time: 11:13:27 PM PST US
      > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
      > Subject: Yak-List: Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines
      >
      >
      > Dear Listers,
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      > Matt Dralle
      > Matronics Email List Administrator
      >
      >
      > ******************************************************************************
      >                     Yak-List Usage Guidelines
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Message 6


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Time: 01:22:11 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Oil Shut off valves      
      -
      In a previous post to the YAK LIST,- I mentioned putting in an oil shut o
      ff valve so that you would not have to pull the prop through before every s
      tart.- I mentioned that a valve was available from Kevin Kimball.- What
       I did not do was to go into explicit detail on the many places one might P
      UT such a valve.- This let to a little bit of misunderstanding.- 
      -
      On the M-14 there is a SUMP.- This sump has it's own return oil pump, and
       that pump is the reason why shut-down procedures call for "running the eng
      ine up" for some period of time before shutdown.- The reason for this is 
      because, at idle, this aforementioned pump is not turning fast enough to ke
      ep up with the oil coming in, and it simply fills up.- With it full, more
       oil coming in as time passes will be more likely to get into engine cylind
      ers after the engine is shut down.- 
      -
      So, the shut-down procedure calls for you to run the engine up, thus turnin
      g the sump oil pump fast enough to pump MOST of the oil (not all, but most)
       out of the sump.- Now the engine is shut down.- 
      -
      Now here is where we come to the oil shut off valve.- The oil shut off va
      lve location *I AM TALKING ABOUT*- is located between the oil tank, and t
      he oil pump.- It will typically be located on the LEFT SIDE, but it is po
      ssible to put it anywhere you want, in the oil line that runs from the oil 
      tank to the oil PUMP.- This is the main SUPPLY LINE to the engine.- Wit
      h it shut off, the oil tank simply can not supply any more oil to the engin
      e. Period.- 
      -
      This leaves residual oil.- 
      -
      Residual oil is that oil contained in the engine at shutdown, and the oil t
      hat is in the line already between the newly installed shut off valve and t
      he oil pump.- 
      -
      MOST of that oil is-going to slowly drain down into the oil sump.- If y
      ou ran up your engine properly before shutdown, the oil sump should be able
       to have this additional amount of oil added without becoming "full" (per s
      e).- If you do NOT run up the engine, then you are not following proper p
      rocedures, and thus other things can of course happen.- 
      -
      A small amount of residual oil might eventually run down the cylinder walls
       past the engine rings and into the cylinders combustion chamber.- This w
      ould allow a very very small amount of oil to remain in the lower cylinders
       if both engine intake and exhaust valves are closed.- 
      -
      Thus, using common sense, after you install such a shut-off valve, and foll
      ow the above procedures, one should before trusting that everything is work
      ing as advertised, pull the prop through as normal.- One should also leav
      e the existing intake drains open with a collection bottle to see how much 
      oil comes out.- One should look at the engine exhaust pipes while pulling
       through to see how much oil comes out there as well.- 
      -
      After following this procedure for say 20 or more flights, and you see that
       a pattern develops, as in.. there is no more oil coming out of the engine 
      when pulling though, and there is very little if any oil coming out of the 
      intake drains, then one can start feeling confident that the system is work
      ing as it is supposed to.- 
      -
      If large amounts of oil continue to come out of the engine, then something 
      is not right, and should be investigated.- 
      -
      Oil shut off valves located OTHER than at the main intake line are obviousl
      y not going to afford the user with the same amount of protection as one in
      stalled IN the main shut off line.- So knowledge of what you are doing, h
      ow you are doing it, and what you should expect after you have done it are 
      required.- Obviously someone not well versed in engine oil lines, fitting
      s, and installing new valves should not take this on as a "first project".
      - 
      -
      If after having this done, it makes anyone feel more comfortable to keep pu
      lling the prop through, especially during priming, where doing that still h
      elps a lot, is of course welcome to do so.- Nothing wrong with that.-
      
      -
      That said, with a thoughtful approach to this method, one will typically fi
      nd that the amount of oil coming out of the exhaust and the intake drains i
      s so small that a hydraulic lock is pretty much impossible.- Which is the
       whole reason of putting it in there in the first place.- 
      -
      The oil SUMP will ALWAYS have some oil left in it, even with this valve loc
      ated in the proper place, as described here.- Having some oil left in the
       oil SUMP is not dangerous at all.- 
      -
      This discussion is directed only at this particular shut off valve located 
      on this particular oil line, on the M-14 engine series.- Nothing else.-
      
      -
      Thanks, 
      -
      Mark Bitterlich
      -
      

Message 7


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Time: 01:44:03 PM PST US
Subject: oil shut-off valve
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>      
      
      Or am I totally misunderstanding what you are saying?  Your mention of a manual
      shut off valve at the bottom of the oil sump has me confused.  Sorry. 
      
      Mark
      
      
      ________________________________
      
      From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
      Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
      Sent: Sat 10/3/2009 4:16 PM
      Subject: RE: Yak-List: oil shut-off valve
      
      
      
      Gary that is a completely different shut off valve located at a completely different
      place than I was describing and recommending.  With the valve installed
      as you describe, you are absolutely correct and your recommendation is of course
      valid. 
      
      However, apples and oranges are being compared here.  I will write up another posting
      and be more specific.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Mark Bitterlich
      
      
      ________________________________
      
      From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Garry Pope
      Sent: Fri 10/2/2009 12:06 PM
      Subject: Yak-List: oil shut-off valve
      
      
      
      Reference to the oil shut-off valve, I have a manual shut-off valve
      installed in the bottom of my oil sump, (CJ with M14P).  From there, is
      approx 15" of oil line to the oil pump. When I shut down, I open the left
      access panel in the lower left cowling to close the valve (a red warning
      flag is left hanging out of the opening to prevent starting). This leaves
      that amount of oil in the line to siphon thru the pump during the period of
      storage until the next flight. I also have bottom cylinder drains tied to a
      central shut off drain valve, which I manually open and leave draining to a
      clean container during storage between flights. This does help resolve the
      oil-hydraulic problem.
      
      When I prepare for the first flight of the day, I always pull the prop for 9
      full cylinders (18 blades) and  ALWAYS  get oil to drain in varying amounts,
      even with the drain valve left open.  So to sum up, even with the shutoff
      valve, I would NEVER consider starting the M14P (for the first flight of the
      day) without pulling the (18) blades. I would rather be over cautious than
      chance a hydraulic lock.
      
      
      Garry Pope
      N92864
      "Black Bird"
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Yak-List Digest Server" <yak-list@matronics.com>
      Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 2:59 AM
      Subject: Yak-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/01/09
      
      
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      >           ----------------------------------------------------------
      >                           Yak-List Digest Archive
      >                                      ---
      >                     Total Messages Posted Thu 10/01/09: 5
      >           ----------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Today's Message Index:
      > ----------------------
      >
      >     1. 09:38 AM - Re: Over- priming  (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
      > Point, MALS-14 64E)
      >     2. 01:13 PM - Yak stick needed  (Noplugs)
      >     3. 03:52 PM - Oil Feed Tube  (Craig Payne)
      >     4. 11:06 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
      > (Matt Dralle)
      >     5. 11:13 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines  (Matt Dralle)
      >
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 1
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 09:38:54 AM PST US
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      > From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
      > <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      >
      > The question is why that is happening.  Oil is oil.  It is going to do
      > what it does, no matter how the aircraft is jacked, leveled, or
      > whatever.  Changing the angle is only going to impact where that oil
      > ends up.  At the extreme side, if we had the tail of the aircraft
      > pointing straight up, ... As in fully nose down, it would take a lot in
      > order to get any oil into the intake tubes.  Thus all the oil stays in
      > the cylinders where it originally came from, or flows out the exhaust.
      > Sorta.
      >
      > At the other extreme, with the nose straight up, any oil from the
      > cylinders is going to try to go out an open valve if it can.  If the
      > intake is open, it will flow back into the intake tubes.
      >
      > At angles in-between those two extremes, you will get various amounts of
      > oil into the intake tubes.
      >
      > If there is too much oil in the cylinders, you are going to have to end
      > up pulling spark plugs, or you bend a rod.
      >
      > If there is too much oil LEFT in the intake tubes when you go to start
      > it, you take a chance of gulping in a big slug of oil and then bending a
      > rod again.
      >
      > Seems to me that either thing is a bad thing.
      >
      > The real fix is to totally prevent oil from getting into the damn engine
      > in the first place.   The factory method to prevent that is a ball check
      > valve in the accessory drive oil pump area.  Having this check valve
      > working properly prevents oil from flowing through the oil pump gear and
      > then into the engine itself.  Making that valve work perfectly is hard
      > to do.  You can make it work BETTER, but it's hard to make it work
      > PERFECTLY.
      >
      > In the end, the very best method to prevent this is to just TURN OFF THE
      > OIL SUPPLY!  Kevin Kimball sells a valve that you can put in the supply
      > oil line that does just that.  It also includes an electric position
      > switch that you can tie into your start circuit to help prevent starting
      > the airplane with the oil system shut off, which is obviously a bad
      > thing.  Clearly, the valve is the best method to stop all this nonsense,
      > to where you can pull through NO blades if you want to, and be able and
      > jump in and start the aircraft just like a Cessna.  (Heaven forbid!)  Of
      > course the danger is that if you screw up, you just ruined the engine.
      > Of course if you start up with a hydraulic lock, you ALSO will destroy
      > at least one cylinder, and possibly the whole engine as well.  In the
      > meantime we yank the prop through, carefully checking for "how it feels"
      > for the fist 8 blades or so.  You can bend a rod simply by pulling it
      > through too hard with oil in those cylinders!
      >
      > I think a manual shut off valve is the right choice for me.  It also
      > means you won't need a sump drain pump, or bleed system, no jacks under
      > the tail, nothing.  Just land, shut off the engine, turn off the valve.
      > YOU'RE DONE.  Comes time to fly again, turn on the valve, start the
      > engine.  Personally, I would tie the electrical switch not only into the
      > starter circuit, but also to be a big red "DON'T BE AN IDIOT" light in
      > the cockpit.  Big flashing red one.
      >
      > Mark Bitterlich
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
      > M.D.
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 20:21
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > --> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
      >
      > Mark,
      > Instead of the nose sitting at 13.4 deg, the angle is decreased to
      > approximately 8-9 degrees with the jack under the tail. The plane is not
      > level with this system. I came up with the idea when I pulled blades on
      > morning after the palne had been sitting for a couple of weeks. When I
      > pulled 14 blades, I got a fair amount oil out then just as I ready to
      > close the drain, another few globules of oil began to floe.
      > Since I have been doing this, I seldom have a problem with the continued
      > drainage of oil since that time.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
      > Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:51 PM
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > --> Point,
      > MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      > If you have intake drains, is it not better to let the oil flow out of
      > the cylinders, into the intakes and then out the drain?  Is it better to
      > try and contain the oil in the cylinder....??  I don't quite get why
      > keeping the engine level would INCREASE the oil out of the intake
      > drains.  What is the logic behind that?  No M-14 equipped tail wheel
      > airplane that I know of EVER jacks their plane up to keep it level that
      > I know of Doc.  Where did you come up with that?
      >
      > On the other hand, if you keep the engine level, more of the oil will
      > stay in the cylinder, decreasing the oil coming out of the intake drain
      > (as you said) when you pull it through, but INCREASING the amount of oil
      > coming out the exhaust, and increasing the chance of hydraulic lock.
      >
      > I must be missing something here.  Not disagreeing, I just don't get it.
      >
      >
      > Mark
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:21
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > Very good idea, I'll try that too.
      >
      >
      > Jan
      >
      >
      > YK50 RA2005K
      >
      >
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
      > M.D.
      > Sent: woensdag 30 september 2009 15:09
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      >
      > For the 50's, I jack my tail up about 2 feet with a standard hydraulic
      > floor jack if she is going to sit for a few days. Doing that does
      > increase the oil drainage out of the intake drains . I have found I have
      > less oil draining out of the intakes during pull through doing this.
      >
      > The next item on the agenda is to install a sump drain line to plug into
      > a "clean container" for drainage when she is going to sit for  period of
      > time.
      >
      > Viperdoc
      >
      > YAK 50 N78YK
      >
      >
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:29 AM
      > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      >
      > I don't think that it would affect priming but it does increase the
      > susceptiblity of the tail-wheel planes to hydraulic-lock,since the oil
      > can pool more easily in the intake tubes.
      >
      > Richard
      >
      >
      > Richard Goode Aerobatics
      > Rhodds Farm
      > Lyonshall
      > Hereford
      > HR5 3LW
      > United Kingdom
      >
      >
      > Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120
      > Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129
      > www.russianaeros.com
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
      > <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      > To: yak-list@matronics.com
      >
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:17 PM
      >
      > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      >
      > Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
      >
      > This may be a ridiculous statement, but it dawns on me that not
      > all of
      > these engines sit at the same angle when mounted in the
      > aircraft.  For
      > example, the YAK-50 obviously sits canted back, while on the 52
      > it is
      > fairly level.  Would this result in less fuel going down into
      > the top
      > cylinder or not?  Just wondering.
      >
      > Mark Bitterlich
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug
      > sapp
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:14
      > To: yak-list@matronics.com
      > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Over- priming
      >
      > All,
      > During a conversation with the folks in China who are in the
      > know with
      > respect to what is done to their engines at overhaul stated that
      > it is
      > the top clys which are always in the poorest condition when they
      > receive
      > the engines for overhaul.  They confirmed that this was due to
      > overpriming.  All food for thought.
      >
      > Doug
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Richard Goode
      > <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
      >
      >
      > In my view ten blades are not enough - I would suggest at least
      > fifteen.
      >
      > The point of my method is that it prevents the need of getting
      > in and out of the aircraft, which one really does not want to do
      > at the
      > best of times particularly if it is cold/raining.
      >
      > So if the engine is in reasonable condition; the carburettor
      > primed; 3/5 pumps to the cylinder, the engine should start
      > within a
      > revolution of the prop on every occasion.
      >
      > The big mistake is to treat the air start as a form of
      > starter-motor.
      >
      > The engine will either start, which is fine; kick-back, which
      > means it is over-primed; or not fire which means that it is
      > under
      > primed.
      >
      > IF it does kick-back then switch everything off; and now you do
      > need to get out, and wind the prop through (say) six
      > revolutions, and
      > then start again.
      >
      > If it is under primed, then give it some more prime.
      >
      > The essence of it is that everything can be done from inside the
      > cockpit.
      >
      >
      > Richard Goode Aerobatics
      > Rhodds Farm
      > Lyonshall
      > Herefordshire
      > HR5 3LW
      > United Kingdom
      >
      > Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
      > Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
      > www.russianaeros.com
      >
      >
      > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
      > tp://forums.matronics.com
      > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >
      >
      > --
      > Douglas Sapp
      > Doug Sapp LLC
      > 18B Riverview Road
      > Omak WA 98841
      > PH 509-826-4610
      > Fax p;         Navigator Photoshare, and
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics <http://www.matronics/>  <http://www.matronics/>
      > =======================<;    via the Web
      > href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>  <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>  <http://forums.matronics.com/>
      > _p;         generous bsp;
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      > ==============
      >
      >
      > -----------------------------------------------
      > This message has been scanned for viruses and
      > dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner
      > and is believed to be clean.
      > http://www.invictawiz.com <http://www.invictawiz.com/>  <http://www.invictawiz.com/>
      > -----------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>  <http://forums.matronics.com/>
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >
      >
      > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
      > http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>  <http://forums.matronics.com/>
      > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 2
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 01:13:25 PM PST US
      > Subject: Yak-List: Yak stick needed
      > From: "Noplugs" <qas44n@yahoo.com>
      >
      >
      > I am looking for a brake lever (with the parking lock) and stick grip form
      > a Yak
      > 50 series. The tube and lower bearings are not a requirement. If anyone
      > would
      > like to get rid on one, PM me.
      > qas44n@yahoo.com
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265910#265910
      >
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 3
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 03:52:42 PM PST US
      > From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
      > Subject: Yak-List: Oil Feed Tube
      >
      > I need an Oil Feed Tube for the V530 paddle blade prop. Any of you
      > Yakista's who
      > went to an MT prop may have one laying around....I need it.
      >
      > No, the Huosai oil feed tube will not fit, It's too short. Of course, SIZE
      > doesn't
      > matter in today's world of medical miracles and political correctness; but
      > in propellers it does make a difference.
      >
      > Craig Payne
      > cpayne@joimail.com
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 4
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 11:06:44 PM PST US
      > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
      > Subject: Yak-List: Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
      >
      >
      > Dear Listers,
      >
      > Please read over the Yak-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.  The
      > complete Yak-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
      > following URL:
      >
      >   http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > Matt Dralle
      > Matronics Email List Administrator
      >
      >
      > [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such
      > as
      >         Courier.  Proportional fonts will cause display formatting
      > errors. ]
      >
      >
      >   This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
      >
      >
      >        ************************************************************
      >        ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
      >        ************************************************************
      >
      >
      > PLEASE READ.  This document contains Yak-List policies and information
      > for new and old subscribers.  Understanding the Yak-List policies will
      > minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Yak-List
      > running smoothly for all of us.
      >
      >
      > ******************************************
      > *** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
      > ******************************************
      >
      >   There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
      >   one is described in detailed below.  However, using the List Navigator
      >   you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
      >   List.  The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
      >
      >
      > ****************************************
      > *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
      > ****************************************
      >
      >   Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
      >   select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from.  You
      >   may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
      >   your email address as it is subscribed to the List.  Please see the
      >   complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
      >   The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
      >
      >   Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your
      > subsciption
      >   process.  The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption
      > request
      >   was received, and the second confirms that the process has been
      > completed.
      >
      >   You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
      >   The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours.  You cannot
      > post
      >
      >   until you receive the second conformation email message.
      >
      >
      > *****************************
      > *** How to Post a Message ***
      > *****************************
      >
      >   Send an email message to:
      >
      >                  yak-list@matronics.com
      >
      >   Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
      >   to the List.
      >
      >
      > *****************************************************
      > *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
      > *****************************************************
      >
      >   When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
      >   is checked and compared against the current subscription list.  If the
      >   email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
      >   If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
      >   is dumped.  This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
      >   gets posted to the Lists.
      >
      >   Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very
      > important
      >   with regard to the configuration of your email application such as
      > Outlook
      >   or Eudora.  For example, the following two email addresses may be
      >   functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email
      > SPAM
      >   test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
      >
      >                  smith@machine.domain.com
      >
      >                  smith@domain.com
      >
      >  Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
      >  your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
      >  the List.
      >
      >
      > **************************************
      > *** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
      > **************************************
      >
      >   Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and
      > spreadsheets
      >   is supported on the Lists.  There are a number of restrictions, and
      > these
      >   are detailed below.  Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
      >   content of enclosures.
      >
      >   These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
      >   Lists:
      >
      >   1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
      >
      >   2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the
      > Lists.
      >
      >   3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
      >
      >   4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
      >
      >   5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
      >
      >   6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
      >
      >                 bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
      >
      >      All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
      >      sender.  The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
      >      a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
      >
      >   7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to
      > posting
      >      to the List.  This is done in real time and will not slow down
      >      the process of posting the message !!
      >
      >
      >   Here are some rules for posting enclosures.  Failure to abide by these
      > rules
      >
      >   could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the
      > Lists.
      >
      >   1) Pay attention to what you are posting!!  Make sure that the files
      >      you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB).  Remember that
      > there
      >      are still people checking they're email via dial up modem.  If you
      > post
      >      30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on
      > these
      >      folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
      >
      >   2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!!  I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
      >      pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each.  This is just
      >      unacceptable.  Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
      >      down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
      >      file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
      >
      >      Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
      >      you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
      >      scale it down and resave it.  This is a great utility - get it, use
      > it!
      >
      > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
      >      Look for the link "Image Resizer"
      >
      >   3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway.  Do
      > not
      >      post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
      >      And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
      >      questionable. !!
      >
      >   4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000
      > members
      >      subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
      >      to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!!  BE CAREFUL and
      >      BE COURTEOUS!
      >
      >   Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
      >   you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
      >   for long time viewing and availability.
      >
      >
      > *******************
      > *** Digest Mode ***
      > *******************
      >
      >   Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be
      > started.
      >   This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
      >   to the archive file.  It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
      >   and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator
      > consisting
      >   of a line of underscores.
      >
      >   Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
      >   combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email
      > list.
      >
      >   To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
      >   described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
      >
      >   Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest
      > versions
      >   of the List at the same time.  This is perfectly acceptable.
      >
      >  Now some caveats:
      >
      >   * Messages sent to "yak-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
      >     email list.  In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
      >     digest List.
      >
      >   * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List,
      > you
      >     will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
      >     the day.
      >
      >   * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to
      > the
      >     normal list associated with the digest.  Important Note:  Please
      > change
      >     the subject line to reflect the topic of your response!  Also, please
      >     *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
      >
      >
      > ****************************
      > *** List Digest Browser ***
      > ****************************
      >
      >   An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain
      > text
      >   or HTML format.  These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted
      > to
      >   the Digest email list on the given day.  The Digest Archives can be
      > found
      >   at the following location:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/digest
      >
      >
      > *****************************************
      > *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
      > *****************************************
      >
      >   At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a
      > very
      >
      >   small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to
      > archive
      >
      >   it.  In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
      >   message:
      >
      >                 do not archive
      >
      >   Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to
      > List
      >   email distribution as normal.
      >
      >
      > **********************************************
      > ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
      > **********************************************
      >
      >   Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
      >   email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be
      > promptly
      >   removed from the List.  If you discover that you are no longer receiving
      >   messages from the Yak-List, go to the following Web page, and look
      >   for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
      >
      >   The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
      >   automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
      >   caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
      >   full", etc.  If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
      >   Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
      >
      >   If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please
      > feel
      >   free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
      >
      >
      > *******************************
      > *** List Member Information ***
      > *******************************
      >
      >   If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
      >   paper mail address in the following format:
      >
      >                 smith@somehost.com
      >                 Joe Smith
      >                 123 Airport Lane
      >                 Tower, CA 91234-1234
      >                 098-765-1234 w
      >                 123-456-7890 h
      >
      >   Please forward this information to the following email address:
      >
      >                 requests@matronics.com
      >
      >   I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
      >   there are problems with your email address.  The information will NOT
      >   be used for any other commercial purpose.
      >
      >
      > ****************************************
      > *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
      > ****************************************
      >
      >   Recent messages posted to the Yak-List are also made available on
      >   the Web for realtime browsing.  Seven days worth of back postings are
      >   available with this feature.  The messages can be sorted by Subject,
      >   Author, Date, or Message Thread.  The Realtime List Browser indexes are
      >   updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45.  You can also reply to a
      > message
      >
      >   or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming
      > soon).
      >   You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
      >   Browser Interface in view-mode.
      >
      >                 http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
      >
      >
      > *******************************************
      > *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
      > *******************************************
      >
      >   A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Yak-List content.
      >   content.  The Forums contain all of the same content available via the
      > email
      >
      >   distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as
      > the
      >   List Browse, etc.  Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to
      > the
      >   respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted
      > to
      >   the web Forums.
      >
      >   You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
      >   If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
      >   will need to Register.  This is a simple process that takes only a few
      >   minutes.  A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
      >   main web Forums page.  Note that registering on the Forum web site also
      >   enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well.  You will also
      > need to
      >
      >   Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
      >   Email Distribution of the List, however.
      >
      >   The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following
      > URL:
      >
      >                 http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>  <http://forums.matronics.com/>
      >
      >
      > *********************************
      > *** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
      > *********************************
      >
      > In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often
      > accessed
      > information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
      >
      >                 http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/>  <http://wiki.matronics.com/>
      >
      > The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful
      > information
      > for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web
      > page
      >
      > where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the
      > Wiki
      > permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible
      > immediately.
      >
      > While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
      > comfortable building pages.  In that case, simply prepare the text and any
      > images and email it to:
      >
      >                wiki-support@matronics.com
      >
      > One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
      > a Wiki page for you.
      >
      > Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of
      > the
      > Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take
      > that
      > post and convert it into a Wiki page.
      >
      >
      > *********************
      > *** List Archives ***
      > *********************
      >
      >   A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
      >   available on line.  The archive file information is available via the
      >   Web and FTP in a number of forms.  Each are briefly described below:
      >
      >
      >   * Yak-List.FAQ
      >
      >            - Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
      >              page (this document).
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.complete
      >
      >            - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
      >              page breaks inserted between messages.
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
      >
      >            - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections
      > that
      >              can more easily handled.
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
      >
      >            - Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
      >              in PKZIP format.  Use "binary" data transfer methods.
      >
      >   * Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
      >
      >            - Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
      >              UNIX compress format.  Use "binary" data transfer methods.
      >
      >
      >  Download Via FTP
      >  ----------------
      >
      >   The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
      >   in the "/pub/Archives" directory.  It is updated daily and can be found
      > in
      >   a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case
      > sensitive.)
      >
      >                  ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
      >
      >
      >  Download Via Web
      >  ----------------
      >
      >   The archives are also available via a web listing.  These can be found
      >   toward the bottom of the following web page:
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/archives
      >
      >
      > ******************************************
      > *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
      > ******************************************
      >
      >   All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
      >   Email List Archive Browsing feature.  With this utility, all messages
      >   in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
      >
      >
      > *****************************************
      > **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
      > *****************************************
      >
      >   You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search
      > Engine
      >   to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
      >   List.  The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
      >   available List archives.
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/search
      >
      >
      > ****************************
      > *** File and Photo Share ***
      > ****************************
      >
      >   With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share
      > pictures
      >   and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
      >   copy of it to everyone.  To share your Files and Photos, simply email
      >   them to:
      >
      >                  pictures@matronics.com
      >
      >   !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
      >
      >                  1) Email Lists that they are related to.
      >                  2) Your Full Name.
      >                  3) Your Email Address.
      >                  4) One line Subject description.
      >                  5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
      >                  6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
      >
      >   Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be
      > scanned
      >   for viruses.  Please also note that the process of making the files and
      >   photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try
      > to
      >   process them every few days.
      >
      >   Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will
      > be
      >   sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
      >   Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
      >
      >   For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
      >   Index Page:
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
      >
      >
      > **************************
      > *** List Archive CDROM ***
      > **************************
      >
      >   A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
      >   all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists.  The
      > archives
      >   for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
      >   engine written by a list member.  The CD is burned the day you order it
      >   and will contain archive received  up to the last minute.  They make
      >   great gifts!
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
      >
      >
      > **********************************
      > *** List Support Contributions ***
      > **********************************
      >
      >   The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it
      > members.
      >   You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
      >   annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web
      > pages
      >   associated with the Matronics Email Lists.  Every year during November
      >   I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
      >   I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
      >   are comfortable.
      >
      >   I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during
      > the
      >   Fund Raiser to increase the participation.  The gifts are usually
      > donated
      >   by companies that are themselves List members.
      >
      >   Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
      >   including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
      >   system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
      >   many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
      >   variety of services found here.
      >
      >   Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely
      > voluntary
      >   and non-compulsory.  I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and
      > obtains
      >   value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
      >
      >   Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
      >   subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
      >
      >   The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below.  There
      > are
      >   a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
      >   sending a personal check.
      >
      >   If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
      >   support its continued operation?
      >
      >                  http://www.matronics.com/contributions
      >
      >   Thank you!
      >   Matt Dralle
      >   Email List Administrator
      >
      >
      > ******************************************************************************
      >                     Yak-List Usage Guidelines
      > ******************************************************************************
      >
      > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
      > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules
      > therein.
      > Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
      > in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
      >
      >
      > Yak-List Policy Statement
      >
      > The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
      > things related to this particular discussion group.  The List's goals
      > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
      > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
      > among its members; and to support safe operation.  Reaching these goals
      > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
      > the List.  To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
      >
      >
      > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level.  Do not submit
      >   posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
      >   lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
      >
      > - THINK carefully before you write.  Ask yourself if your post will be
      >   relevant to everyone.  If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
      >
      > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
      >   that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.  Try to be concise and
      >   terse in your posts.  Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
      >   responses.
      >
      > - Keep your signature brief.  Please include your name, email address,
      >   aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location.  A short line
      >   about where you are in the building process is also nice.  Avoid
      >   bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
      >   space in the archive.
      >
      > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
      >   easily obtainable from other widely available sources.  Consult the
      >   web page or FAQ first.
      >
      > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
      >   your response the same as that of the original post.  This makes it
      >   easy to find threads in the archive.
      >
      > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
      >   response.  DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
      >   reader to the topic at hand, but be selective.  The impact that
      >   quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
      >   can not be overstated!
      >
      > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
      >   then go ahead and reply to the List.  Be aware that clicking the
      >   "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
      >   response to the original poster.  You might have to actively address
      >   your response with the original poster's email address.
      >
      > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
      >   to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal.  "Way to go!", "I
      >   agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
      >   to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
      >
      > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
      >   comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
      >   contribute something valuable.
      >
      > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
      >   polite and respectful.  Don't make snide comments, personally attack
      >   other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
      >   controversial issue.  This will only cause a pointless debate that
      >   will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
      >
      > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
      >   subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable.  Posts by
      >   List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
      >   should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
      >   a typical SPAM message.  The List isn't about commercialism, but
      >   is about sharing information and knowledge.  This applies to
      >   everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
      >   community.  Informal presentation and moderation should be the
      >   operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
      >
      > -------
      >
      >
      > [This is an automated posting.]
      >
      > do not archive
      >
      >
      > ________________________________  Message 5
      > _____________________________________
      >
      >
      > Time: 11:13:27 PM PST US
      > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
      > Subject: Yak-List: Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines
      >
      >
      > Dear Listers,
      >
      > Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below.  The complete
      > Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
      > following URL:
      >
      >   http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > Matt Dralle
      > Matronics Email List Administrator
      >
      >
      > ******************************************************************************
      >                     Yak-List Usage Guidelines
      > ******************************************************************************
      >
      > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
      > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules
      > therein.
      > Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
      > in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
      >
      >
      > Yak-List Policy Statement
      >
      > The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
      > things related to this particular discussion group.  The List's goals
      > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
      > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
      > among its members; and to support safe operation.  Reaching these goals
      > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
      > the List.  To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
      >
      >
      > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level.  Do not submit
      >   posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
      >   lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
      >
      > - THINK carefully before you write.  Ask yourself if your post will be
      >   relevant to everyone.  If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
      >
      > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
      >   that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.  Try to be concise and
      >   terse in your posts.  Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
      >   responses.
      >
      > - Keep your signature brief.  Please include your name, email address,
      >   aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location.  A short line
      >   about where you are in the building process is also nice.  Avoid
      >   bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
      >   space in the archive.
      >
      > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
      >   easily obtainable from other widely available sources.  Consult the
      >   web page or FAQ first.
      >
      > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
      >   your response the same as that of the original post.  This makes it
      >   easy to find threads in the archive.
      >
      > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
      >   response.  DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
      >   reader to the topic at hand, but be selective.  The impact that
      >   quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
      >   can not be overstated!
      >
      > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
      >   then go ahead and reply to the List.  Be aware that clicking the
      >   "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
      >   response to the original poster.  You might have to actively address
      >   your response with the original poster's email address.
      >
      > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
      >   to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal.  "Way to go!", "I
      >   agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
      >   to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
      >
      > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
      >   comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
      >   contribute something valuable.
      >
      > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
      >   polite and respectful.  Don't make snide comments, personally attack
      >   other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
      >   controversial issue.  This will only cause a pointless debate that
      >   will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
      >
      > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
      >   subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable.  Posts by
      >   List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
      >   should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
      >   a typical SPAM message.  The List isn't about commercialism, but
      >   is about sharing information and knowledge.  This applies to
      >   everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
      >   community.  Informal presentation and moderation should be the
      >   operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
      >
      > -------
      >
      >
      > [This is an automated posting.]
      >
      > do not archive
      >
      >
      
      








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