Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:23 AM - Contributions Down By 21%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:52 AM - Re: Re: generator question (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: generator question (keithmckinley)
3. 07:38 AM - Tim Gagnon (John Sykes)
4. 08:21 AM - The future of Nanchangs? (Pete Fowler)
5. 08:39 AM - Re: The future of Nanchangs? (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
6. 08:53 AM - Re: The future of Nanchangs? (Jim Selby)
7. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: generator question (Yak Pilot)
8. 07:04 PM - Re: DC-3 Pilot in the News (Yak Pilot)
9. 07:31 PM - Re: generator question (keithmckinley)
10. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: generator question (Jim Griffin)
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income
to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the
expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I
also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and
the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter
of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs
and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments,
make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you
can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the
continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: generator question |
The problem Mike is experiencing sounds more like a voltage regulator
issue. If you have a digital volt meter, connect it to the 28 volt
buss. Run the engine up and see if the voltage stabilizes after the
engine RPM gets above about 1200 RPM. I don't know if you have a 52 or
a CJ. If it's a 52, there is a rheostat (slotted screw) on the left
side by the flap lever that you can adjust the voltage level. It should
read about 28 volts when the engine is running between about 1200 rpm
(41%) and WOT (100%) or 2900 RPM. You can also push the Volt meter
button in and read VOLTS on the inner scale of the instrument (the small
gold letters).
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: keithmckinley
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: generator question
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Hey Hoser,
Mark Bitterlich seems to be the electron guru around here and if you
say some nice things about the most elite fighting force in the world
he might answer. I don't think it's unrealistic to have voltage spikes.
Would it be possible to put a transorb surge protector in the power lead
for your tach? (not the P-lead connection). Don't know, but I know they
are cheap and you can get them at radio shack. Glad to hear the
instrument has some built in protection..pretty pricey
What you been up to?
Semper Fi,
Wiz
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273004#273004
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| Subject: | Re: generator question |
Good point Dennis considering when this happens. For the record I still think that
anything that creates electricity can create a voltage spike. Might not trash
your stuff outright but overtime will ruin it. If I had some fancy EFIS on
my plane I'd sure have a surge protector on it.
Of course I could be wrong!
K
:)
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273121#273121
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Tim,
-
If you are still out there could you drop me a note.- This is in regard t
o the 359th Fighter Group.
-
John Sykes
skyking1107@yahoo.com
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| Subject: | The future of Nanchangs? |
Over the last couple of months, as I get closer to buying a Nanchang, I started
to get the uncomfortable feeling that I'm coming in to the "market" too late
and the Housai, (and even MP14) motors are going to become either unavailable
or so expensive in, say, 5-10 years (the period of most use of my plane) that
at the end, the plane will be worth 0 because of the unavailability or astronomical
expense of replacement motors for my use or the next owner.
Now, with the MP14, I see that an infrastructure is going to be there to rebuild
motors (at a high cost). The Housai appears to have no such future.
What is the list's thinking on this subject? I want to think well down the road
before I purchase my Nanchang.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273151#273151
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| Subject: | Re: The future of Nanchangs? |
I'm not a owner, or at this point even a prospective owner. But the
question posted made me wonder if the Nanchang could be re engined? Obviously
the MP14 has been done. But what about say a R-985? Too big? Too costly? Any
other options? Maybe if Rotec continues to develop their radials for more
power?
_Rotec Radial Engines Round Engines R2800 R3600 Rotecradial_
(http://www.rotecradialengines.com/) Currently the big engine only puts out 150hp. But,
maybe add another row of cylinders? Might get it close to the Nanchang's
power?
Boyce
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| Subject: | Re: The future of Nanchangs? |
Pete,
Great question, nobody knows what's going to happen 5 or 10 years down the
Road. The CJ's are still being built today, which means the chinese have to
support them, Doug Sapp is the Biggest Supplier of the CJ Parts, I have
parts that I've brought in for my Dads Aircraft and a few aircraft here on
the field. When the Chinese or Russians start offering Parts at a ridiculous
cost and nobody jumps on thier offer, eventually they're going to need to
wake up and start working with us as they have in the Past..
I personally don't think you're jumping into the CJ/Yak community or "
market " as you put it, too late, infact I think it's a really good time to
jump in and get the Plane that fits your needs. Again, I know Bob really
well, I know he keeps his plane in excellent Shape, as I mentioned earlier,
he has a Factory Overhauled Engine on it, the Engine will probably outlast
all of us as long as you take care of it. I hope this helps.
Best Regards
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Fowler" <pfdesign1@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: The future of Nanchangs?
>
> Over the last couple of months, as I get closer to buying a Nanchang, I
> started to get the uncomfortable feeling that I'm coming in to the
> "market" too late and the Housai, (and even MP14) motors are going to
> become either unavailable or so expensive in, say, 5-10 years (the period
> of most use of my plane) that at the end, the plane will be worth 0
> because of the unavailability or astronomical expense of replacement
> motors for my use or the next owner.
>
> Now, with the MP14, I see that an infrastructure is going to be there to
> rebuild motors (at a high cost). The Housai appears to have no such
> future.
>
> What is the list's thinking on this subject? I want to think well down the
> road before I purchase my Nanchang.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273151#273151
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: generator question |
Hi Keith, thanks for the compliment.- My professional field is indeed ele
ctronics, with RF as the strong suite, but let me tell you, there are a few
guys hanging around this list that are smart enough to keep their mouth sh
ut, but never-the-less are highly regarded experts in their field.- Rob R
owe is one, and when he opens his mouth, I listen closely.- Another gent
owns his own company, has a PhD, and develops a whole plethora of products.
- That said, just about any time in my life I feel I am starting to get p
retty good at something, I get a lesson in humility from someone who is REA
LLY good.- .-
-
Also you're right.- Say a few good words about the USMC, and I will alway
s come out of the wood-work.- I have been absent from this list for awhil
e as I have been- going to school on long and short baseline interferomet
ry.- Another lesson in how much more math I need.-
-
In answer to the original question that dealt with the over-voltage conditi
on shutting down the tach.- Hmmm..... seems unlikely to me.- The YAK se
ries of aircraft has a built in over-voltage device ALREADY.- If you exce
ed 32 volts, it trips a circuit breaker and removes field excitation to the
generator, effectively shutting it off.- Further, even if that was defec
tive, running over 32 volts DC in your aircraft for any effective period of
time would pretty much boil the electrolyte out of your batteries pretty d
arn quick.- Then we have Dennis's comments, which were are as usual, dead
on.- Of course you can check your actual voltage right in the cockpit wi
th your volt/ammeter!- Only takes a second to do that.- So couple that
check, with the built in over-voltage protection our aircraft have, and I h
ave a hard time really believing the problem with the tach is an over-volta
ge condition.-
-
That said, there are a lot of other issues that are possible.- I would su
ggest first that the gent check his battery voltage BEFORE he goes flying.
- After the aircraft has sat for awhile, check it and make sure it is 24
volts and not less.- If it is, then he has bad batteries, and the generat
or is going to be trying to constantly charge them.- This will result in
a higher noise output from the generator.- The more current it produces,
the more noise it will create.- This is a real shotgun comment of course.
- But it is a valid test.-
-
If I were to make a wild ass guess, it would be that this particular tach m
ight indeed be "not quite right".-- As in... the people that make it al
ready admit- that it has an over-voltage shut-down mode.- That means tw
o things can make it shut off.-
-
1.- An aircraft over-voltage.
2.- Something wrong with the over-voltage circuit in the tach itself!-
-
It might be number 2.-
-
Hey, if you really want to know... just do exactly as Dennis suggested.-
Put a good voltmeter on the DC line (the battery is a good place), and meas
ure the voltage before you start, then after with the engine run up as far
as you want to stand there and get beat to death by the prop blast!- But.
.. get it up to about 75% or so at least.- Make sure that you watch the v
oltage come up to between 27-29 VDC and then STABILIZE.- In other words,
it should reach a top limit and then STOP going UP as you increase engine R
PM.- If it goes up steadily with engine RPM as you pass 75%, then somethi
ng is bad wrong.-
-
Voltage spikes:- Sure Keith, voltage spikes are indeed a bad thing, and i
n fact if you are concerned about them, adding a metal oxide varistor, or "
trans-sorb" is indeed do-able.- However, voltage spikes are typically cau
sed by large inductive loads.- The collapsing magnetic fields are the cau
se... and the biggest cause of those puppy dogs are STARTER MOTORS.- Some
thing the Yak happens to be missing!-- Honestly I can't think of too ma
ny inductive loads in a Yak (as in motors and stuff like them... INVERTER m
otor excepted!), so it comes back to the generator itself.- Generators do
n't usually put out nasty spikes, unless they are defective.- As in... re
ally bad brushes.--
-
Bad brushes could INDEED cause the problem noted with the TACH shutting off
, but it is really low on my personal list of "could this be it?"-- Nor
mally if you have brushes THAT bad, you are going to hear it in your radio.
-
-
I've installed the-P-1000 Tach on a few aircraft and have never seen this
problem before, and my off the record personal guess is ... it may be the
tach... but only if I personally ran all the other tests suggested first an
d they all came back negative.-
-
Bottom line Keith, your comment about voltage spikes is perfectly true, but
not really a concern (in my humble opinion) with the YAK model aircraft.
- On the other hand, to prove your point as being VALID, you might be int
erested to know that in a lot of CESSNA model aircraft, they have two DC bu
s controls.- MAIN and AVIONICS.-- When the starter motor is engaged,
the AVIONICS BUS is turned OFF, for exactly the reason you were concerned a
bout.-
-
Best Regards,
-
Mark Bitterlich (writing from my hangar email account)-
-
p.s.- Computing phase matched cells with simultanious short and long base
d interferometery is really stretching my remaining gray matter.-
-
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> wrote:
From: keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: generator question
>
Good point Dennis considering when this happens. For the record I still thi
nk that anything that creates electricity can create a voltage spike. Might
not trash your stuff outright but overtime will ruin it. If I had some fan
cy EFIS on my plane I'd sure have a surge protector on it.
Of course I could be wrong!-
K
- :)
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273121#273121
le, List Admin.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: DC-3 Pilot in the News |
SO...... an Airline Transport Pilot, ... in fact one who flies for Delta, a
company that is not known to hire idiots.... who is also rated in a DC3,
=C2- shuts down a whole airport, tries to run over police officers... and
Oh my GOOD GOD.... "refuses to sign a=C2- ticket".=C2-=C2- WOW!=C2
-
=C2-
Well hell yes, SHOOT THAT SORRY PIECE OF ... well...=C2- never mind.=C2
- =C2-
=C2-
Having had some personal experience with:
=C2-
1.=C2- The news media.
2.=C2- Airport Administrators.=C2-
3.=C2- Local police departments.=C2-
=C2-
I would bet a LARGE sum of money that this is a rather trumped up set of ch
arges because someone had the outright gall not to be totally subservient t
o a Law Enforcement Officer or better yet....=C2-God Forbid..... a=C2-
freaking Building Inspector !!=C2-
=C2-
=C2-STOP RIGHT THERE YOU SORRY PIECE OF TRASH, GET DOWN IN THE DIRT AND P
UT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOU HEAD,=C2- DON'T YOU KNOW I AM THE LOCAL BUILDING
INSPECTOR?=C2-=C2- Yeah... right.=C2-
=C2-
Sorry Yak List Readers.... but this kind of news report just really fries m
y ass.=C2-
=C2-
Putting it simply.=C2-
=C2-
I DO NOT BELIEVE IT.=C2-=C2-=C2- Oh yeah, it happened.. .but not like
it has been reported here.=C2- No way on God's Green Earth.=C2-
=C2-
Of course, I could be wrong, but I really freaking doubt it.=C2-=C2- So
rry, just my "BS meter" over-flowing and using the YAK List to vent.=C2-
=C2-
My sincere apologies.
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
Mark Bitterlich
=C2-
--- On Fri, 11/13/09, N642K <mdecanio@mac.com> wrote:
From: N642K <mdecanio@mac.com>
Subject: Yak-List: DC-3 Pilot in the News
Jailed Delta pilot suspended
Man accused of trying to run over Griffin police with his private plane.
By Megan Matteucci
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Friday, November 13, 2009
Delta Air Lines has suspended a pilot while officials investigate charges h
e tried to run over two Griffin police officers with his private plane.
Dan Wayne Gryder, 48, remains in the Spalding County jail, charged with two
counts of aggravated assault and obstruction. He is being held without bon
d and is scheduled to be arraigned on Friday, the sheriff=99s office
said.
Gryder, a Delta pilot and private aircraft instructor, was arrested Wednesd
ay at the Griffin-Spalding Airport.
=9CHe is suspended pending the completion into the investigation in t
his incident,=9D Delta spokesman Anthony Black said Thursday.
Griffin code enforcement officers were called to the airport Wednesday on a
report of a pilot disrupting the airport. Gryder was driving his car acros
s the runway and taxiway, Griffin Police Investigator Bryan Clanton said.
Police said the suspect gave two officers a fake name. After learning the p
ilot was Gryder, the officers tried to issue citations, police said.
Gryder refused to sign the tickets and boarded his plane, a 1937 DC-3A, pol
ice said. He started the engine and told one officer that if she moved, he
would strike her car, police said.
The officer, who was standing next to the plane, moved out of the way and s
ummoned backup.
More Griffin officers and Spalding County deputies flooded the area and ord
ered him to stop, but Gryder continued to taxi down the runway, police said
.
Gryder got to the end of the runway and tried to take off, but he was out o
f gas. Police arrested Gryder and took him to jail.
Gryder=99s actions disrupted air traffic, prohibiting flights from de
parting or arriving, police said.
=9CHe essentially shut the airport down for almost 45 minutes,
=9D Clanton said. =9CHis actions created a danger for all of our offi
cers, himself and others who lawfully use the airport.=9D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272747#272747
h --
EE Gifts!)
on
om
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S WEB FORUMS -
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: generator question |
Great Post Mark,
Whenever I read posts from the technical Hardballers on this board (you, Dennis,
Richard, Doug, et al) if feel like Forest Gump!
In any case, my Trons are in good shape and for what its worth both Mike and I
have CJ's. I think Mike, being in Canada, is just too damn close to magnetic north
and that's his problem...
BTW, this post will be going in my personal save file!
Thanks
Semper Fi Jarhead,
Wizard[/b]
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273240#273240
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| Subject: | Re: generator question |
To reinforce Mark's comment about checking the battery, I found that my
Horizon tach would intermittently shut down and recycle when I had a bad
battery. This has happened on 2 occasions.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: generator question
Hi Keith, thanks for the compliment. My professional field is
indeed electronics, with RF as the strong suite, but let me tell you,
there are a few guys hanging around this list that are smart enough to
keep their mouth shut, but never-the-less are highly regarded experts in
their field. Rob Rowe is one, and when he opens his mouth, I listen
closely. Another gent owns his own company, has a PhD, and develops a
whole plethora of products. That said, just about any time in my life I
feel I am starting to get pretty good at something, I get a lesson in
humility from someone who is REALLY good. .
Also you're right. Say a few good words about the USMC, and I
will always come out of the wood-work. I have been absent from this
list for awhile as I have been going to school on long and short
baseline interferometry. Another lesson in how much more math I need.
In answer to the original question that dealt with the
over-voltage condition shutting down the tach. Hmmm..... seems unlikely
to me. The YAK series of aircraft has a built in over-voltage device
ALREADY. If you exceed 32 volts, it trips a circuit breaker and removes
field excitation to the generator, effectively shutting it off.
Further, even if that was defective, running over 32 volts DC in your
aircraft for any effective period of time would pretty much boil the
electrolyte out of your batteries pretty darn quick. Then we have
Dennis's comments, which were are as usual, dead on. Of course you can
check your actual voltage right in the cockpit with your volt/ammeter!
Only takes a second to do that. So couple that check, with the built in
over-voltage protection our aircraft have, and I have a hard time really
believing the problem with the tach is an over-voltage condition.
That said, there are a lot of other issues that are possible. I
would suggest first that the gent check his battery voltage BEFORE he
goes flying. After the aircraft has sat for awhile, check it and make
sure it is 24 volts and not less. If it is, then he has bad batteries,
and the generator is going to be trying to constantly charge them. This
will result in a higher noise output from the generator. The more
current it produces, the more noise it will create. This is a real
shotgun comment of course. But it is a valid test.
If I were to make a wild ass guess, it would be that this
particular tach might indeed be "not quite right". As in... the people
that make it already admit that it has an over-voltage shut-down mode.
That means two things can make it shut off.
1. An aircraft over-voltage.
2. Something wrong with the over-voltage circuit in the tach
itself!
It might be number 2.
Hey, if you really want to know... just do exactly as Dennis
suggested. Put a good voltmeter on the DC line (the battery is a good
place), and measure the voltage before you start, then after with the
engine run up as far as you want to stand there and get beat to death by
the prop blast! But... get it up to about 75% or so at least. Make
sure that you watch the voltage come up to between 27-29 VDC and then
STABILIZE. In other words, it should reach a top limit and then STOP
going UP as you increase engine RPM. If it goes up steadily with engine
RPM as you pass 75%, then something is bad wrong.
Voltage spikes: Sure Keith, voltage spikes are indeed a bad
thing, and in fact if you are concerned about them, adding a metal oxide
varistor, or "trans-sorb" is indeed do-able. However, voltage spikes
are typically caused by large inductive loads. The collapsing magnetic
fields are the cause... and the biggest cause of those puppy dogs are
STARTER MOTORS. Something the Yak happens to be missing! Honestly I
can't think of too many inductive loads in a Yak (as in motors and stuff
like them... INVERTER motor excepted!), so it comes back to the
generator itself. Generators don't usually put out nasty spikes, unless
they are defective. As in... really bad brushes.
Bad brushes could INDEED cause the problem noted with the TACH
shutting off, but it is really low on my personal list of "could this be
it?" Normally if you have brushes THAT bad, you are going to hear it
in your radio.
I've installed the P-1000 Tach on a few aircraft and have never
seen this problem before, and my off the record personal guess is ... it
may be the tach... but only if I personally ran all the other tests
suggested first and they all came back negative.
Bottom line Keith, your comment about voltage spikes is
perfectly true, but not really a concern (in my humble opinion) with the
YAK model aircraft. On the other hand, to prove your point as being
VALID, you might be interested to know that in a lot of CESSNA model
aircraft, they have two DC bus controls. MAIN and AVIONICS. When the
starter motor is engaged, the AVIONICS BUS is turned OFF, for exactly
the reason you were concerned about.
Best Regards,
Mark Bitterlich (writing from my hangar email account)
p.s. Computing phase matched cells with simultanious short and
long based interferometery is really stretching my remaining gray
matter.
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
wrote:
From: keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: generator question
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 9:34 AM
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Good point Dennis considering when this happens. For the
record I still think that anything that creates electricity can create a
voltage spike. Might not trash your stuff outright but overtime will
ruin it. If I had some fancy EFIS on my plane I'd sure have a surge
protector on it.
Of course I could be wrong!
K
:)
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.co; (And Get Some AWESOME
FREE Gifts!); http://; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.p;
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