Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:16 AM - Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... (Matt Dralle)
1. 01:20 AM - M14P Overhaul (Lorina Walden)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: The future of Nanchangs? (N642K)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: The future of Nanchangs? (Eric Wobschall)
4. 08:30 AM - Re: The future of Nanchangs? (Richard Goode)
5. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: The future of Nanchangs? (doug sapp)
6. 10:25 AM - Scott Glaser (Byron Fox)
7. 03:20 PM - Prop balancing (TumblingTiger)
8. 04:24 PM - Re: Prop balancing (Warren Hill)
9. 06:45 PM - Re: Prop balancing (Rick VOLKER)
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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While many people have been able to overhaul US [and European ] radials,this
is because when these engines were made a huge amount of spare parts were
also made,and many still have stocks today.
With the Russians and the M14P family things are very different.
Spares were only made under "gosplann" for fairly short term
requirements.and given that the last new engine was made in 1994,supplies
are very short.
Indeed the factory has only just been able to make 100 engines for new Yak
18Ts,and then only by incrporating many overhauled parts.
So while good engineers like Monty Barret and Carl Hayes will make some
parts,the long term problem is that many parts will be very expensive to
manufacture,particularly if one has to begin by making the jigs and tooling
first.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: The future of Nanchangs? |
Doug Sapp stated:
Barry is correct about the R985 being too heavy, but there are other engines out
there, like the M462RF (I aminstallingone right now), the AI14, and the M14B
(not P) just to name a few, but there simply is no 0 time 10 to 15K engines out
there to be had.
Doug does that mean you can't put an M-14P on a Nanchang? How about a B with a
P nose case?
Thanks,
Mike DeCanio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274607#274607
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: The future of Nanchangs? |
I was thinking the B had a different prop flange, but otherwise
similar to the P. Is that right?
On Nov 24, 2009, at 8:25 AM, N642K wrote:
>
> Doug Sapp stated:
>
> Barry is correct about the R985 being too heavy, but there are other
> engines out there, like the M462RF (I aminstallingone right
> now), the AI14, and the M14B (not P) just to name a few, but there
> simply is no 0 time 10 to 15K engines out there to be had.
>
> Doug does that mean you can't put an M-14P on a Nanchang? How about
> a B with a P nose case?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike DeCanio
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274607#274607
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: The future of Nanchangs? |
The M14B ia an excellent engine-while very similar to the P it is somewhat
improved.
Nominally a 300 HP,this is simply due to lower RPM,and it gives 360 at the
same rpm as the P.
Of course a different gearbox and flange.
Also,not many made!!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: The future of Nanchangs? |
Mike,
Of course you can put a P on a CJ, I did not mean to infer that you could
not, and yes with a mod to the engine mount you can install a B and run a
stock CJ prop or install a P nose case and run the V530 or MT. All this is
pretty commonly known, I was just mentioning a few engine types which I
thought most folks were not aware of. Sorry if I caused some confusion wit
h
the wording, after rereading it I can understand your question.
Best,
Doug
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:25 AM, N642K <mdecanio@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Doug Sapp stated:
>
> Barry is correct about the R985 being too heavy, but there are other
> engines out there, like the M462RF (I am=EF=BDinstalling=EF=BDone r
ight now), the
> AI14, and the M14B (not P) just to name a few, but there simply is no 0 t
ime
> 10 to 15K engines out there to be had.
>
> Doug does that mean you can't put an M-14P on a Nanchang? How about a B
> with a P nose case?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike DeCanio
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274607#274607
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting,
but in the mean time, we're here, the band is playing, so we may as well
dance....."
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 6
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Please contact me off-line. Thanks, Blitz
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 7
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Hey guys/gals!
Well I am now a full believer of dynamic prop balancing. I must say that was the
best $200 I have ever spent. So here's my story. I have a 3 blade MT prop
on my M14. I have always wondered since I bought the airplane if It was running
rough or what could be the problem to why it shakes a bit more than normal.
After going through the plane nose to tail this fall, I had only one thing
left to check. The balance of the prop to the engine. I had always assumed that
since I saw weights on the prop hub, that it was balanced. Well it was some
what.
We started with a base line of what the current vibration level was. Its is measure
is IPS. Mine was .35 ips. So then we removed the weights that were installed
and took another measurement and it went to .56 ips. Now to put this all
in perspective as .5 doesn't sound like alot. When I made the mistake of putting
the weight on the wrong side spinner (not the mechanics fault, I was just
trying to trying to help [Embarassed] ) the next reading went to .9 ips and
just about shook the stick out of my hand at 40%.
Getting the weight in the right place got the next reading down to .15 ips. I
thought that was a huge difference and was satisfied with that. But Andy, the
mechanic, said he could do better. Taking the weight up another couple of grams
we got it tuned to .07, striving for perfection we did one more adjustment
and got the final reading to .043. Now let me tell you, after that was all said
and done I thought I was flying a turbine or electric powered Yak it was so
much smoother.
This alone will definitely slow down some of the wear and tear on the aircraft.
I am curious as to any other stories out there reference to prop balancing.
I just can't believe I haven't check that sooner. I mean I do it with all my
vehicle wheels, why would an airplane be different.
Anyway, if you are anywhere near the Atlanta area, I highly recommend contacting
Andy Akin 770-778-8936. He is a Delta airlines IA mechanic by night and does
GA prop balancing by day. He lives at a fly in community with a 3000' paved
strip so a direct visit to him and a balance while you wait would be no problem.
He is also a pilot so I guess he could come to you if it was more economical.
I just wanted to pass that along, for those of you who are interest in getting
your radial running the smoothest it can. It definitely worked for me.
Fly safe everyone!
--------
Mark Sorenson-
www.tigerairshows.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274690#274690
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Prop balancing |
Mark,
Before my test flight of the CJ / Housai-6 that I ended up buying, Jim Selby took
the time to have the prop balanced by someone in San Jose to an incredible
0.01! Very smooth.
Agreed... certainly worth doing.
Warren Hill
CJ-6A N867PA
On Nov 24, 2009, at 4:16 PM, TumblingTiger wrote:
>
> Hey guys/gals!
>
> Well I am now a full believer of dynamic prop balancing. I must say that was
the best $200 I have ever spent. So here's my story. I have a 3 blade MT prop
on my M14. I have always wondered since I bought the airplane if It was running
rough or what could be the problem to why it shakes a bit more than normal.
After going through the plane nose to tail this fall, I had only one thing
left to check. The balance of the prop to the engine. I had always assumed
that since I saw weights on the prop hub, that it was balanced. Well it was
some what.
>
> We started with a base line of what the current vibration level was. Its is
measure is IPS. Mine was .35 ips. So then we removed the weights that were installed
and took another measurement and it went to .56 ips. Now to put this
all in perspective as .5 doesn't sound like alot. When I made the mistake of
putting the weight on the wrong side spinner (not the mechanics fault, I was
just trying to trying to help [Embarassed] ) the next reading went to .9 ips and
just about shook the stick out of my hand at 40%.
>
> Getting the weight in the right place got the next reading down to .15 ips.
I thought that was a huge difference and was satisfied with that. But Andy, the
mechanic, said he could do better. Taking the weight up another couple of
grams we got it tuned to .07, striving for perfection we did one more adjustment
and got the final reading to .043. Now let me tell you, after that was all
said and done I thought I was flying a turbine or electric powered Yak it was
so much smoother.
>
> This alone will definitely slow down some of the wear and tear on the aircraft.
I am curious as to any other stories out there reference to prop balancing.
I just can't believe I haven't check that sooner. I mean I do it with all
my vehicle wheels, why would an airplane be different.
>
> Anyway, if you are anywhere near the Atlanta area, I highly recommend contacting
Andy Akin 770-778-8936. He is a Delta airlines IA mechanic by night and does
GA prop balancing by day. He lives at a fly in community with a 3000' paved
strip so a direct visit to him and a balance while you wait would be no problem.
He is also a pilot so I guess he could come to you if it was more economical.
>
> I just wanted to pass that along, for those of you who are interest in getting
your radial running the smoothest it can. It definitely worked for me.
>
> Fly safe everyone!
>
> --------
> Mark Sorenson-
> www.tigerairshows.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274690#274690
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Prop balancing |
I also had my MT prop dynamic balanced to .03 ips. It was
recommended that the engine run be done at max cruise power. This
makes this rpm the smoothest, falling off in either rpm direction.
Flying at max cruise and full power, I was not happy with the
balance. I strapped the balance monitor to my leg and flew at
different power levels, recording the ips scores. Flying at 440 kph
(Sukhoi), I had serious vibration. Following the solution to
balance at full power at that speed gave me a smooth prop at that
speed and power level only. The other speeds and power levels would
shake your teeth out. I was told that my engine was bad until I put
the prop on a friend's Sukhoi and he had the same result. His prop on
mine was smooth. MT did a warranty swap of blades and solved the
problem. I had gone through having the original new blades stripped
and balanced and reinstalled twice. No one could find out what their
problem was. The blade angles checked out to be perfect. It
balanced perfectly on the ground. Unacceptable in the air. Thank
you MT for rectifying this blade problem. My belief is that one of
the blades was flexing far more than the others. One blade even
showed lateral craze lines over half the blade in the first 10 hours
of use, similar to what you see on a 1000 hr Unlimited prop. MT is
examining this set of blades now.
My point is that the prop is known to be the likely culprit for
vibration and a dynamic balance score of .03 ips on the ground does
not guarantee there is not something else wrong with the blades. Be
persistent. It could also be a bad governor, engine electrical
harness shorting out, broken engine mount, etc. The list is too
long. Don't be afraid to swap props with a friend to help
diagnose. That is how I came to appreciate GT propellers. Once you
have a smooth prop, you will never want to be the donor. I would not
part with my MTV9, now that it is perfect.
Rick Volker
On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:16 PM, TumblingTiger wrote:
> <captainsorenson@hotmail.com>
>
> Hey guys/gals!
>
> Well I am now a full believer of dynamic prop balancing. I must
> say that was the best $200 I have ever spent. So here's my story.
> I have a 3 blade MT prop on my M14. I have always wondered since I
> bought the airplane if It was running rough or what could be the
> problem to why it shakes a bit more than normal. After going
> through the plane nose to tail this fall, I had only one thing left
> to check. The balance of the prop to the engine. I had always
> assumed that since I saw weights on the prop hub, that it was
> balanced. Well it was some what.
>
> We started with a base line of what the current vibration level
> was. Its is measure is IPS. Mine was .35 ips. So then we removed
> the weights that were installed and took another measurement and it
> went to .56 ips. Now to put this all in perspective as .5 doesn't
> sound like alot. When I made the mistake of putting the weight on
> the wrong side spinner (not the mechanics fault, I was just trying
> to trying to help [Embarassed] ) the next reading went to .9 ips
> and just about shook the stick out of my hand at 40%.
>
> Getting the weight in the right place got the next reading down to .
> 15 ips. I thought that was a huge difference and was satisfied
> with that. But Andy, the mechanic, said he could do better.
> Taking the weight up another couple of grams we got it tuned to .
> 07, striving for perfection we did one more adjustment and got the
> final reading to .043. Now let me tell you, after that was all
> said and done I thought I was flying a turbine or electric powered
> Yak it was so much smoother.
>
> This alone will definitely slow down some of the wear and tear on
> the aircraft. I am curious as to any other stories out there
> reference to prop balancing. I just can't believe I haven't check
> that sooner. I mean I do it with all my vehicle wheels, why would
> an airplane be different.
>
> Anyway, if you are anywhere near the Atlanta area, I highly
> recommend contacting Andy Akin 770-778-8936. He is a Delta
> airlines IA mechanic by night and does GA prop balancing by day.
> He lives at a fly in community with a 3000' paved strip so a direct
> visit to him and a balance while you wait would be no problem. He
> is also a pilot so I guess he could come to you if it was more
> economical.
>
> I just wanted to pass that along, for those of you who are interest
> in getting your radial running the smoothest it can. It definitely
> worked for me.
>
> Fly safe everyone!
>
> --------
> Mark Sorenson-
> www.tigerairshows.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274690#274690
>
>
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