Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Vent Panels (Craig Payne)
2. 06:00 AM - Minneapolis FAA FISDO (Kelley Monroe)
3. 07:47 AM - Re: Minneapolis FAA FISDO (Warren Hill)
4. 08:50 AM - Re: Minneapolis FAA FISDO (Tom Elliott)
5. 02:32 PM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Gill Gutierrez)
6. 02:37 PM - CO Again (Cpayne)
Message 1
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I have offered louvered panels for a few years now, I make mine from scratch. I
use the ADF belly cover rather than the left side bottle drain door.
>
>
> The other way that we have found to be effective in reducing the CO in
> the cockpit is to louver 4 access panels on the plane. The panel on the belly
> where the 2nd snot valve is (when was the last time you cleared that, folks?),
> the left side bottle drain access panel just aft of the trailing edge of the
> wing, and the two access panels on the tail.
>
> We have fabricated the dyes and if anyone wants this done you can send your panels
> and we'll turn them around in a week. We tried outsourcing this with several
> shops and they couldn't make their dyes work without cracking the soft material,
> so we tooled up to do them in house.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Minneapolis FAA FISDO |
I had a meeting on 12/8/09 with the Minneapolis FISDO about my new
operating limitations. I bought this CJ in October and had them up-date
the new base. They had all the paper work done and correct. At the end
of the meeting I was told that if I had not owned CJ's before and didn't
have my experience they were not going to approve MIC as the new base
because of the density of homes and trees. MIC is Crystal airport in
the Minneapolis area. A class D with parallel runways of 3400' with
1000' overrun on 1 and a crosswind runway. Over 400 planes and hangers,
4 FBO's and 4 flying clubs. We have T28's, T6's and other CJ's based on
the field along with many T twins. This would be a big problem if you
owned a CJ or the like and this FISDO wouldn't approve MIC as the base
after you bought it. The power of the FED's! Thanks Kelley
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Minneapolis FAA FISDO |
If anyone being reviewed for new limitations runs into this as a
problem, as a point of persuasion you can mention that one of the
largest concentrations of CJs in the country is at Deer Valley (DVT) and
Falcon Field (FFZ) not far from one another in the Phoenix metropolitan
area and both are adjacent to densely populated suburban areas. I had
never before owned a CJ and had no problems getting FFZ approved as my
base.
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Dec 9, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Kelley Monroe wrote:
> I had a meeting on 12/8/09 with the Minneapolis FISDO about my new
operating limitations. I bought this CJ in October and had them up-date
the new base. They had all the paper work done and correct. At the end
of the meeting I was told that if I had not owned CJ's before and didn't
have my experience they were not going to approve MIC as the new base
because of the density of homes and trees. MIC is Crystal airport in
the Minneapolis area. A class D with parallel runways of 3400' with
1000' overrun on 1 and a crosswind runway. Over 400 planes and hangers,
4 FBO's and 4 flying clubs. We have T28's, T6's and other CJ's based on
the field along with many T twins. This would be a big problem if you
owned a CJ or the like and this FISDO wouldn't approve MIC as the base
after you bought it. The power of the FED's! Thanks Kelley
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Minneapolis FAA FISDO |
This should be sent to EAA government affairs and EAA Warbirds. I recently
was told by the local FSDO that they had been directed from headquarters
to review and reissue all Experimental exhibition Ops limits. Seems
headquarters did not know about this? Sounds like you also have run into
some
people trying to think way beyond there pay grade.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelley Monroe
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 5:59 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Minneapolis FAA FISDO
I had a meeting on 12/8/09 with the Minneapolis FISDO about my new operating
limitations. I bought this CJ in October and had them up-date the new base.
They had all the paper work done and correct. At the end of the meeting I
was told that if I had not owned CJ's before and didn't have my experience
they were not going to approve MIC as the new base because of the density
of homes and trees. MIC is Crystal airport in the Minneapolis area. A class
D with parallel runways of 3400' with 1000' overrun on 1 and a crosswind
runway. Over 400 planes and hangers, 4 FBO's and 4 flying clubs. We have
T28's, T6's and other CJ's based on the field along with many T twins.
This would be a big problem if you owned a CJ or the like and this FISDO
wouldn't approve MIC as the base after you bought it. The power of the
FED's! Thanks Kelley
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ever wonder what it really looks |
like....
Roger,
EPA's ambient standard for CO is 9 ppm for 8 hours and is based on an
increased health risk by 1 in a million. OSHA's standard is 50 ppm for an 8
hour exposure. NIOSH has a lower standard of 35 ppm. FAA says 50 ppm. The
Navy allows less than 10 ppm in pilots air supply to avoid psychosis.
Barry's video gives us an idea of air circulation in the cockpit but does
not tell us anything about concentrations of CO except that it will be lower
in the cockpit as compared to the exhaust stack and that it does enter the
cockpit. Based on the fore mentioned limits, your measurements seem to
support that CO is not a serious problem especially since no one flys CJ's
or Yaks more than 3 hours at any one time. Did I misunderstand?
Gill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Yak-List: Ever wonder what it really
looks like....
William,
The very top of the canopy bow is free of CO. There is about 3-4 ppm of CO
beginning 1/2 way down the canopy bow. It is 5 ppm at the canopy rail. It
goes up to between 10 ppm and 15 ppm 1/2 down the side of the fuselage. It
is roughly 20 ppm at the wing root. At the waist level with the engine
idling and canopy cracked to the first detint has on average 25 ppm that
spikes to 35 ppm with engine runup. Higher in the 50. You are literally
sitting in a CO bath. I have heard that high CO reading alarm on the Daeger
CO meter way to many times.
On the 555 I do not know if you have a vent right on top of the glare shield
like the 50 does. If so that usually reads 5 -6 ppm on the 50.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Yak-List: Ever wonder what it really
looks like....
So tell me - if you have a fresh air vent at the top of the canopy, is that
air still not good?
Thanks!
William Halverson
YAK-55
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Roger Kemp M.D. [mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com]
+Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 09:58 AM
+To: yak-list@matronics.com
+Subject: RE: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Yak-List: Ever wonder what it really
looks like....
+
+Read the article in Red Stars latest edition, type set errors and all. The
+take home message is the same. That data was put to gather and verified
over
+multiple sorties along with over years of testing. You can do all the
+structural mods you want but you are not getting rid of the Carbon
Monoxide.
+Short of completely sealing the cockpit fore and aft with sealed bulkheads
+and canopy seals with fresh compressed air from a source that is not
sitting
+behind the engine sucking air from the leaks in the exhaust stacks, that is
+the only way to almost zero CO in the pit with you. The only way to
+guarantee that you have zero CO inspired (you breath in) is to use a closed
+fresh air system. That being an aviators mask that has been fit tested to
+ensure a good seal and a sealed regulator getting a fresh air supply that
is
+not communicating with the cockpit ambient air.
+
+Doc Kemp
Message 6
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Threads on CO will never subside until the fix is found. My efforts only mitigate
the problem, as do extra fresh air ports, masks, etc.
Has anyone measured CO level in one of those side exhaust setups where most of
the fumes end up over the wing rather than under it? surely there is less gas
egress into the wheel wells.
Seems like side exhaust, gapless rings, high compression piston, auto plugs, fuel
injection, etc. ought to lessen CO as well as make the CJ-6 really fast with
those Big bad 3-blade props that cost big $$. What chance would a little 2-blade
have against all that money???
Inquiring minds want to know....
Craig Payne
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