---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/17/10: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:11 AM - Test (Walter Lannon) 2. 10:42 AM - Re: Test (Terry Calloway) 3. 10:47 AM - Re: Test (Jim Selby) 4. 11:43 AM - Re: Test (Walter Lannon) 5. 11:54 AM - Hydro lock (Jerry Painter) 6. 01:02 PM - Re: Test (Roger Kemp M.D.) 7. 04:44 PM - Re: B&C Alternator (Craig Winkelmann) 8. 04:47 PM - 2 engines and a prop (Rick Basiliere) 9. 06:33 PM - husoi "surging" (Jon Boede) 10. 06:41 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (kingcj6@aol.com) 11. 06:48 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (A. Dennis Savarese) 12. 06:48 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (Eric Wobschall) 13. 06:53 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (rick@rvairshows.com) 14. 06:57 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (A. Dennis Savarese) 15. 06:59 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (Eric Wobschall) 16. 07:18 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (Roger Kemp M.D.) 17. 08:43 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (lou) 18. 10:42 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (ggg6@att.net) 19. 11:11 PM - Re: husoi "surging" (ggg6@att.net) 20. 11:22 PM - FW: Re: husoi "surging" (ggg6@att.net) 21. 11:29 PM - FW: husoi "surging" (ggg6@att.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:08 AM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Yak-List: Test New computer test ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:41 AM PST US From: Terry Calloway Subject: Re: Yak-List: Test New computer works On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Walter Lannon wrote: > New computer test ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:02 AM PST US From: "Jim Selby" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Test Test OK.. ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:06 AM Subject: Yak-List: Test New computer test ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:27 AM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Re: Yak-List: Test Thanks Jim & Terry; Finally back in operation with my computer. Not a total loss since my wife allowed me emergency use of her lap top. Cheers; Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Selby To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Test Test OK.. ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:06 AM Subject: Yak-List: Test New computer test ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:53 AM PST US From: "Jerry Painter" Subject: Yak-List: Hydro lock Gents-- Two weeks ago a friend went to fly a Grumman Avenger. Very experienced guy and crew. Went through the usual pre-start drill, no problems. Fires the engine, it turns about two blades (out of three) and comes to a very definite sudden stop. Big heavy prop, lots of inertia, oops. What could be The Problem? All pistons go up and down, as do valves, but though the engine will rotate, it'll only turn about 300 degrees (both directions) before coming to a very definite clank stop. They detect one piston not going very high up the cylinder so decide to pull the jug. Sho 'nuff, one very bent rod (as in fractured at the bend), ring below the skirt. Turns out this had happened once before, but was "cleared" and had been flying ever since. Not good. Maybe just as well that it came to a stop on startup and not in the air. Avengers have Wright 2600's, a bit much to pull by hand so the starter is used, but there's a clutch that's not supposed to force a lock. Pappy? Weather before the incident was usual Seattle 40's, not real cold, but not warm, either. No preheat. As is well known, taildragger ground attitude is conducive to gravity fed oil going into intake tubes undetected until start when things suddenly go bad. So, I think Doug's query as to temps is on the mark. I've had lock on CJ's and -52's, nose and tailwheel, also Wilga. OTH, I had a Broussard with R-985, both fuel and oil shutoff, ICO shutdown, never had a problem. You couldn't turn the fuel on unless you also turned the oil on. Worked great, no locks never, tho oil shutoff notwithstanding sometimes it would puke oil aplenty during pre-start drill and startup, tho nothing like a -14P. Have also heard of M-14's wicking (?) oil into the UPPER rocker boxes resulting in UPPER cylinder locks. Had to drain the boxes to clear the lock. Say what? Makes no sense. I've flown (stupidly and no fun) both a CJ and -52 that upon further inspection had bent rods, one a MASTER rod. Wooaah! A customer actually BROKE a rod in HS-6A, but it kept on til he could land. Scary. Be careful out there. Jerry Painter Wild Blue Aviation 425-876-0865 JP@FlyWBA.com www.FlyWBA.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:56 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Test Old computer test. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: Yak-List: Test New computer test ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:52 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: B&C Alternator From: "Craig Winkelmann" Terry: Remove the alternator by removing it from the baseplate that you will leave on the engine (just like you did to check the shear coupling). Look down into the pinion gear that drives the alternator. It should have a plug in the bottom of it (the M-14 gear has one, the Housai gear does not). That plug supports the male splined shaft for the alternator. If the plug is in good shape, use a digital caliper to measure the length of the male splined shaft from the tip of the shaft to the base of the alternator mounting plate. Then compare this to the depth of the hole in the pinion gear to the top of the mounting plate and compare them. If these measurements are very different, check the backlash on the pinion gear. It should have a small amount of movement up and down. Just stick your finger in it and lift it and push it back in place. The gasket between the engine and baseplate allows for some backlash. Then check the thickness of the gasket between the alternator mount and the baseplate. If it is too thick, it will allow the splined shaft to drop out of the coupling. These gaskets, or lack of them, will set the depth of the male alternator drive shaft in the pinion gear. Hope this helps, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281988#281988 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:51 PM PST US From: Rick Basiliere Subject: Yak-List: 2 engines and a prop For sale. Sorry for this crass commercialism. Sold my Sukhoi 29 so I have: 1) M14P 360 hp. sn KR232011 mfg date 3/08/1998 Factory new and stored in climate controlled building in TUS in original Russian crate, still sealed. $35,000 OBO 2) M14PF 400 hp. Romanian red. Sn RA 0032012 mfg date 10/21/2000 41.7 hrs TTSFN. $25,000 OBO 3) MT prop. MTV-3-250-27 330TT 10 or so since OH. $8,500 OBO contact me off list. rab@disc.com or basilierer@bouldercolorado.gov Thanks, Rick b ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:55 PM PST US From: Jon Boede Subject: Yak-List: husoi "surging" My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off=2C really any time when he applies full throttle. Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifold pressure... or at l east he doesn't think so. If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. Any ideas what might be causing that?? Jon ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:10 PM PST US From: kingcj6@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" Are the intake drain plugs all secure? Is the primer down & locked? In a message dated 1/17/2010 6:35:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jonboede@hotmail.com writes: My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off, really any time when he applies full throttle. Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifold pressure... or at least he doesn't think so. If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. Any ideas what might be causing that?? Jon (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:20 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" Many times surging at high RPM (WOT) is also caused by an inadequate supply of fuel. Check the fuel screens as well as the finger screen in the carburetor for any foreign matter. Also a "flapper" in a flexible fuel hose can cause a partial blockage, particularly under higher fuel demands ie: WOT. In addition to the intake drains being secure and the primer pump locked in the center position, it also could be related to loose intake gland nuts. Also a common problem. Tighten all the intake gland nuts because a loose intake gland nut will cause a cylinder to run lean. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: kingcj6@aol.com To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" Are the intake drain plugs all secure? Is the primer down & locked? In a message dated 1/17/2010 6:35:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jonboede@hotmail.com writes: My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off, really any time when he applies full throttle. Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifold pressure... or at least he doesn't think so. If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. Any ideas what might be causing that?? Jon ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Yak-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:30 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" I had just such a problem in my Yak-52. It was just that way... on takeoff, maybe 3/4 through the ground roll, a pronounced surging (and a fuel pressure drop to approx. .2).... which you could smooth out by retarding the throttle. After checking a lot of other things (governor, fuel vents, etc...), it turned out to be an obstruction (hose flapper) in the hose between the fine fuel strainer and the carb. -Eric On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Jon Boede wrote: > My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off, > really any time when he applies full throttle. > > Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifold pressure... > or at least he doesn't think so. > > If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. > > Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. Any ideas what > might be causing that?? > > Jon > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" From: rick@rvairshows.com Maybe a flapper in a fuel line. Easy to check. Rick Volker Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jon Boede Subject: Yak-List: husoi "surging" My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off, really any time when he applies full throttle. Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifo ld pressure... or at least he doesn't think so. If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. A ny ideas what might be causing that?? Jon ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:29 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" The CJ does not have the same "fine" fuel screen/filter as the Yak 52 does. It has the same type of "coarse" fuel screen/filter the 52 has though. The fuel hose Eric refers to would the fuel hose going into the base of the carburetor on the Housai. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Wobschall To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" I had just such a problem in my Yak-52. It was just that way... on takeoff, maybe 3/4 through the ground roll, a pronounced surging (and a fuel pressure drop to approx. .2).... which you could smooth out by retarding the throttle. After checking a lot of other things (governor, fuel vents, etc...), it turned out to be an obstruction (hose flapper) in the hose between the fine fuel strainer and the carb. -Eric On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Jon Boede wrote: My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off, really any time when he applies full throttle. Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifold pressure... or at least he doesn't think so. If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. Any ideas what might be causing that?? Jon href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:19 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" Rick says this because he said "hose flapper" and I checked everything else before finding out he was right. Lucky guess. On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:54 PM, rick@rvairshows.com wrote: > Maybe a flapper in a fuel line. Easy to check. > Rick Volker > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > From: Jon Boede > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:32:06 -0600 > To: > Subject: Yak-List: husoi "surging" > > My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off=2C > really = any time when he applies full throttle. > > Says that is not seeing a wi= ggle in the RPM or manifold > pressure... or at least he doesn't think so. > If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. > > Weather her= e was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. =3B Any ideas > what might be c= ausing that?? > > Jon > > > > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > > > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:47 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: husoi "surging" Eric is on the money. Had the same thing but could not locate the problem until the engine quit 50 of the runway at full throttle. Landed safely. Pulled the finger screen filter out of the carb. It had a 8 to 9 mm fragment of the inner liner of the fuel line. It occluded the out flow from the fuel screen in to the fuel chamber. The elbow that connects directly to the fuel line that comes directly from the pressure equalization sphere. Never found the flapper but did replace all of the fuel lines even though they were two years old. Once back at the hanger after the dead stick, the engine started and ran fine. Even with pushing the power up to 80%. It was not until I pulled the carb of the aircraft thinking I had a seal failing in the carb. When the filter screen was pulled the inner liner fragments was found in the finger screen. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" I had just such a problem in my Yak-52. It was just that way... on takeoff, maybe 3/4 through the ground roll, a pronounced surging (and a fuel pressure drop to approx. .2).... which you could smooth out by retarding the throttle. After checking a lot of other things (governor, fuel vents, etc...), it turned out to be an obstruction (hose flapper) in the hose between the fine fuel strainer and the carb. -Eric On Jan 17, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Jon Boede wrote: My friend said that his CJ is experiencing "surging" on take-off, really any time when he applies full throttle. Says that is not seeing a wiggle in the RPM or manifold pressure... or at least he doesn't think so. If he retards the throttle a bit the surging stops. Weather here was 60+ degrees with very low humidity. Any ideas what might be causing that?? Jon href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:09 PM PST US From: lou Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" I had a similar surging problem when I leaned fuel in my cj turned out to be a cracked intake tube where boss is welded for the intake drain the boss was ready to fall right out and the other 2 had also started to go the same way. Regards Lou ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:19 PM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:48 PM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:27 PM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: FW: Re: Yak-List: husoi "surging" ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:52 PM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: FW: Yak-List: husoi "surging" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.