Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:59 AM - Re: Oil Shutoff Valve Chapter 2 Serious Failure (Cpayne)
2. 09:44 AM - Oil shutoff valves (Jerry Painter)
3. 10:31 AM - Oil scavange....and follow the book! (Barry Hancock)
4. 10:41 AM - Re: Oil shutoff valves (Roger Kemp M.D.)
5. 11:22 AM - Re: Oil shutoff valves (Eric Wobschall)
6. 07:01 PM - Re: Oil shutoff valves (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 07:54 PM - Re: Oil shutoff valves (netmaster15@juno.com)
8. 10:45 PM - Re: Oil shutoff valves (Jan Mevis)
9. 10:45 PM - Re: Oil shutoff valves (Tom Elliott)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Shutoff Valve Chapter 2 Serious Failure |
I have the helicopter valve hanging from the oil tank, works OK, but did crack
the tank after my first 1/8" plate. I found that it took a 1/4" thick plate across
the bottom of the tank to support the load.
If I were to do it again, I would have re-arranged the firewall plumbing and made
a place for the valve on the firewall while the engine was off.
More work the first time...less work the second time.
Craig Payne
Message 2
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| Subject: | Oil shutoff valves |
Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521 "Broussard.
Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room, hauled
a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk about
oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the panel
just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The handles
on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on the FUEL
without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on but no
fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines connecting the
rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings etc. HSAT,
none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine though the
requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the engine was
clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half a dozen
blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to distribute the
prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the start. Being
a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling the intake
drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled into the
engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-damage
stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
(relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves every
time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while, oil
would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but plenty of
oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round engine
beast.
Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Oil scavange....and follow the book! |
Gang,
Our experience has been that the sump scavenge pump is unnecessary on these small
radials. On the big ones there are obvious benefits, but if you have the oil
shut off and an intake drain, you virtually eliminate hydraulic lock (still
need to pull through tho'!), and eliminate the mess on the hangar floor. The
pump seems to me to be adding unnecessary complexity and cost. Though some
argue that about the shut off valve, and that's the long running great debate.
As for when to pull your engine through....guys....read the book. Speculation,
and inaccurate at that, on this list doesn't help anyone....
Spring time is a great time for systems reviews....while you're looking up the
spec. on proper preflight of your engine, there are a few other good refreshers
in there as well.
<stepping off my soap box now>
Happy Flying,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Oil shutoff valves |
Know where you can find another one if you want to go through the headaches
of getting it shipped to the States.
As for the tail dragger collecting oil in the lower intake tubes on the
M-14, you are absolutely correct. To help mitigate that I jack the tail of
my 50 up if it is going to sit any at all after flying her. If it is cold
when I pull blades, I prime her with the intake drain open. Then pull some
more and be patient until the goo stops dripping out of the intake drain.
As for all the oil shutoff valves, I'm going to start dropping the chin cowl
and plug a drain hose on the sump drain. I'll open it to drain the sump into
a 5 gallon gas can. The plane is not sitting cocked to launch for an
intercept.
Sorry I'm just being a simpleton.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:44 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521 "Broussard.
Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room, hauled
a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk about
oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the panel
just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The handles
on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on the FUEL
without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on but no
fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines connecting the
rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings etc. HSAT,
none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine though the
requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the engine was
clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half a dozen
blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to distribute the
prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the start. Being
a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling the intake
drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled into the
engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-damage
stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
(relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves every
time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while, oil
would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but plenty of
oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round engine
beast.
Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valves |
As alluded to, you can also cause a hydraulic lock by over-priming. If
you're prime-crazy, it's a good idea to have the intake drains open
regardless of ambient temp.
On Feb 28, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
> >
>
> Know where you can find another one if you want to go through the
> headaches
> of getting it shipped to the States.
> As for the tail dragger collecting oil in the lower intake tubes on
> the
> M-14, you are absolutely correct. To help mitigate that I jack the
> tail of
> my 50 up if it is going to sit any at all after flying her. If it is
> cold
> when I pull blades, I prime her with the intake drain open. Then
> pull some
> more and be patient until the goo stops dripping out of the intake
> drain.
> As for all the oil shutoff valves, I'm going to start dropping the
> chin cowl
> and plug a drain hose on the sump drain. I'll open it to drain the
> sump into
> a 5 gallon gas can. The plane is not sitting cocked to launch for an
> intercept.
> Sorry I'm just being a simpleton.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
> Painter
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
>
> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
> Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521
> "Broussard.
> Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room,
> hauled
> a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk
> about
> oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
> mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the
> panel
> just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The
> handles
> on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on
> the FUEL
> without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on
> but no
> fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines
> connecting the
> rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
> directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings
> etc. HSAT,
> none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine
> though the
> requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the
> engine was
> clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half
> a dozen
> blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to
> distribute the
> prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the
> start. Being
> a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
> DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling
> the intake
> drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled
> into the
> engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
> cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-
> damage
> stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
> (relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves
> every
> time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while,
> oil
> would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but
> plenty of
> oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round
> engine
> beast.
>
> Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
>
> Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Oil shutoff valves |
Even though I'm claiming to be a simpleton...I now understand why these are
called threads...once pulled they unravel.
Okay to clarify my pre-flight prep to fly, the intake drain is opened at the
end of the sortie. Whether it is just a break between last sortie and the
next or if it is the last one for the day. The intake is opened. It is only
closed once I have pushed her out on the ramp to go fly. That occures after
I have completed the preflight and blade pull through. If it is cold and the
oil coming out of the drain is slow flowing, I prime it with the intake
drain open (which it is because it was left open from the shutdown after the
last sortie). I then pull more blades. I prime it up to 6 times which is
generally enough to see fuel and oil running out of the intake drain of the
50. I even do that for the 52. Pre-flight is strictly by the RU manual. How
many blades do I pull you ask? A minimum of 12 but generally 16. Why? I like
the exercise and also I pull whatever it takes above 12 to see that there is
no oil leaking out of the stacks or the intake drain. Call me OC (Obsessive
Compulsive personality for the politically correct ...or just plain
anoretentive). I just figure the more blades you pull the less likely I am
at missing that 5 to 10 ccs of goo that could ruin my day. Nothing is
perfect though.
Also, if I see oil running out of the intake or the stacks I stop pulling
blades until it has stopped dripping. And yes I do pull blades after she has
sat longer than 10 min say at the pumps in the fuel pits or stopping to
visit a friend at their hanger. That engine does not start without blades
being pulled. Yes, I know the risk of desieling if the blades are pulled
with the engine hot right after shutdown. That is why I wait about 10 min
before moving the blades say to hook up the tug to push her back into the
hanger.
Hope this clarifies any misconception that may have been taken from my
previous post on this unraveling thread.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
As alluded to, you can also cause a hydraulic lock by over-priming. If
you're prime-crazy, it's a good idea to have the intake drains open
regardless of ambient temp.
On Feb 28, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
> >
>
> Know where you can find another one if you want to go through the
> headaches
> of getting it shipped to the States.
> As for the tail dragger collecting oil in the lower intake tubes on
> the
> M-14, you are absolutely correct. To help mitigate that I jack the
> tail of
> my 50 up if it is going to sit any at all after flying her. If it is
> cold
> when I pull blades, I prime her with the intake drain open. Then
> pull some
> more and be patient until the goo stops dripping out of the intake
> drain.
> As for all the oil shutoff valves, I'm going to start dropping the
> chin cowl
> and plug a drain hose on the sump drain. I'll open it to drain the
> sump into
> a 5 gallon gas can. The plane is not sitting cocked to launch for an
> intercept.
> Sorry I'm just being a simpleton.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
> Painter
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
>
> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
> Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521
> "Broussard.
> Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room,
> hauled
> a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk
> about
> oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
> mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the
> panel
> just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The
> handles
> on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on
> the FUEL
> without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on
> but no
> fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines
> connecting the
> rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
> directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings
> etc. HSAT,
> none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine
> though the
> requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the
> engine was
> clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half
> a dozen
> blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to
> distribute the
> prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the
> start. Being
> a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
> DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling
> the intake
> drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled
> into the
> engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
> cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-
> damage
> stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
> (relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves
> every
> time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while,
> oil
> would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but
> plenty of
> oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round
> engine
> beast.
>
> Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
>
> Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil shutoff valves |
Doc, When you prime your 50 with the intake drain open --if you're putti
ng enough primer fuel in to flush the intake tubes aren't you also washi
ng residual oil off the cylinder walls at the same time?Perhaps it"s a m
atter of priming judiciously.
Cliff Umscheidl
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
om>
Know where you can find another one if you want to go through the headac
hes
of getting it shipped to the States.
As for the tail dragger collecting oil in the lower intake tubes on the
M-14, you are absolutely correct. To help mitigate that I jack the tail
of
my 50 up if it is going to sit any at all after flying her. If it is col
d
when I pull blades, I prime her with the intake drain open. Then pull so
me
more and be patient until the goo stops dripping out of the intake drain
.
As for all the oil shutoff valves, I'm going to start dropping the chin
cowl
and plug a drain hose on the sump drain. I'll open it to drain the sump
into
a 5 gallon gas can. The plane is not sitting cocked to launch for an
intercept.
Sorry I'm just being a simpleton.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:44 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521 "Brouss
ard.
Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room, hau
led
a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk abou
t
oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the panel
just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The han
dles
on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on the
FUEL
without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on but no
fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines connecting
the
rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings etc. H
SAT,
none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine though th
e
requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the engine wa
s
clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half a d
ozen
blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to distribute
the
prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the start. B
eing
a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling the in
take
drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled into t
he
engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-dama
ge
stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
(relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves every
time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while, oil
would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but plenty o
f
oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round engine
beast.
Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 8
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| Subject: | Oil shutoff valves |
I'm proceeding exactly the same way on my 50.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.
Sent: maandag 1 maart 2010 4:00
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
Even though I'm claiming to be a simpleton...I now understand why these are
called threads...once pulled they unravel.
Okay to clarify my pre-flight prep to fly, the intake drain is opened at the
end of the sortie. Whether it is just a break between last sortie and the
next or if it is the last one for the day. The intake is opened. It is only
closed once I have pushed her out on the ramp to go fly. That occures after
I have completed the preflight and blade pull through. If it is cold and the
oil coming out of the drain is slow flowing, I prime it with the intake
drain open (which it is because it was left open from the shutdown after the
last sortie). I then pull more blades. I prime it up to 6 times which is
generally enough to see fuel and oil running out of the intake drain of the
50. I even do that for the 52. Pre-flight is strictly by the RU manual. How
many blades do I pull you ask? A minimum of 12 but generally 16. Why? I like
the exercise and also I pull whatever it takes above 12 to see that there is
no oil leaking out of the stacks or the intake drain. Call me OC (Obsessive
Compulsive personality for the politically correct ...or just plain
anoretentive). I just figure the more blades you pull the less likely I am
at missing that 5 to 10 ccs of goo that could ruin my day. Nothing is
perfect though.
Also, if I see oil running out of the intake or the stacks I stop pulling
blades until it has stopped dripping. And yes I do pull blades after she has
sat longer than 10 min say at the pumps in the fuel pits or stopping to
visit a friend at their hanger. That engine does not start without blades
being pulled. Yes, I know the risk of desieling if the blades are pulled
with the engine hot right after shutdown. That is why I wait about 10 min
before moving the blades say to hook up the tug to push her back into the
hanger.
Hope this clarifies any misconception that may have been taken from my
previous post on this unraveling thread.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
As alluded to, you can also cause a hydraulic lock by over-priming. If
you're prime-crazy, it's a good idea to have the intake drains open
regardless of ambient temp.
On Feb 28, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
> >
>
> Know where you can find another one if you want to go through the
> headaches
> of getting it shipped to the States.
> As for the tail dragger collecting oil in the lower intake tubes on
> the
> M-14, you are absolutely correct. To help mitigate that I jack the
> tail of
> my 50 up if it is going to sit any at all after flying her. If it is
> cold
> when I pull blades, I prime her with the intake drain open. Then
> pull some
> more and be patient until the goo stops dripping out of the intake
> drain.
> As for all the oil shutoff valves, I'm going to start dropping the
> chin cowl
> and plug a drain hose on the sump drain. I'll open it to drain the
> sump into
> a 5 gallon gas can. The plane is not sitting cocked to launch for an
> intercept.
> Sorry I'm just being a simpleton.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
> Painter
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:44 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
>
> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
> Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521
> "Broussard.
> Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room,
> hauled
> a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk
> about
> oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
> mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the
> panel
> just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The
> handles
> on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on
> the FUEL
> without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on
> but no
> fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines
> connecting the
> rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
> directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings
> etc. HSAT,
> none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine
> though the
> requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the
> engine was
> clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half
> a dozen
> blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to
> distribute the
> prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the
> start. Being
> a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
> DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling
> the intake
> drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled
> into the
> engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
> cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-
> damage
> stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
> (relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves
> every
> time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while,
> oil
> would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but
> plenty of
> oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round
> engine
> beast.
>
> Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
>
> Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
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| Subject: | Oil shutoff valves |
That would be hard to do as the prime nozzle is in the blower case, not the
cyl.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
netmaster15@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
Doc, When you prime your 50 with the intake drain open --if you're putting
enough primer fuel in to flush the intake tubes aren't you also washing
residual oil off the cylinder walls at the same time?Perhaps it"s a matter
of priming judiciously.
Cliff Umscheidl
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
Know where you can find another one if you want to go through the headaches
of getting it shipped to the States.
As for the tail dragger collecting oil in the lower intake tubes on the
M-14, you are absolutely correct. To help mitigate that I jack the tail of
my 50 up if it is going to sit any at all after flying her. If it is cold
when I pull blades, I prime her with the intake drain open. Then pull some
more and be patient until the goo stops dripping out of the intake drain.
As for all the oil shutoff valves, I'm going to start dropping the chin cowl
and plug a drain hose on the sump drain. I'll open it to drain the sump into
a 5 gallon gas can. The plane is not sitting cocked to launch for an
intercept.
Sorry I'm just being a simpleton.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:44 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valves
Way back in a previous life I had a wonderful Max Holste MH 1521 "Broussard.
Kind of a poor (French) man's DH Beaver, P&W R-985, plenty of room, hauled
a good load, lots of fun, nuthin' sounds like a 985. All this talk about
oil shutoffs and hydraulic locks reminds me that the Broussard had a
mechanical oil shutoff valve. The valve handle was mounted on the panel
just about the mag switch right next to the FUEL shutoff valve. The handles
on the valves were arranged in such a way that you couldn't turn on the FUEL
without also turning on the OIL, though you could have the oil on but no
fuel. Simple, fool (and pilot) proof. 985's also have lines connecting the
rocker boxes to the sump, so residual oil can drain from the rockers
directly to the sump instead of seeping past valves/guides/rings etc. HSAT,
none of the above relieved the necessity of pulling the engine though the
requisite number of blades before EVERY start to make sure the engine was
clear. It was also part of the start drill to crank the engine half a dozen
blades on the starter BEFORE turning on the mags in order to distribute the
prime AND prevent inadvertent lockup while making power on the start. Being
a taildragger, it was possible for oil to collect in the intake tubes
DOWNHILL of the cylinders that couldn't be purged without pulling the intake
drains. If there was oil present in the tubes it could be pulled into the
engine on start regardless of how many blades were pulled to purge the
cylinders, resulting in lock and sudden, nasty, potentially serious-damage
stoppage. I flew the airplane frequently, it was low time and burned
(relatively) little oil, but even though I used the shutoff valves every
time I shut it down, if the airplane sat for even just short while, oil
would come out while pulling it through. Never got locked, but plenty of
oil found its way to the cylinders. Just the nature of the round engine
beast.
Shutoff valves ain't no magic bullet.
Sure miss that airplane, tho, never shoulda sold it.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876====================================================================
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