Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 PM - Commercial use? (Patrick Scofield)
2. 05:24 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Tom Elliott)
3. 05:54 PM - Re: Commercial use? (John Fischer)
4. 06:23 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Walter Lannon)
5. 06:36 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Roger Kemp M.D.)
6. 06:54 PM - Re: Commercial use? (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
7. 08:42 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Eric Wobschall)
8. 08:54 PM - Re: Commercial use? (KingCJ6@aol.com)
9. 09:08 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Eric Wobschall)
10. 09:20 PM - Re: Commercial use? (ggg6@att.net)
11. 09:46 PM - Re: Commercial use? (William Halverson)
12. 10:34 PM - Re: Commercial use? (KingCJ6@aol.com)
Message 1
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Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf
from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site
advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their
enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive
'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action
against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but
someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for
hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is
a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-
combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the
commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
Message 2
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You are absolutely correct Pat! Note the pictures show Barry Hancock's
plane?
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Scofield
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use?
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com:
http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He
expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air
-combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind
of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive
'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us
all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should
inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an
approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity
is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming
them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial.
All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the
owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
>Gents,
>
>I received this link to
>incredible-adventures.com:
><http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf>http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf
>from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site
>advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their
>enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
>
>Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with
>aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA
>action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these
>activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial
>air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the
>aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not
>credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
>
>This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the
>commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
>
>Patrick Scofield
>CJ-6P Alien Invasion
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
Patrick;
Could not agree with you more. This needs to be stopped - if necessary by reference
to the FAA.
These are non certificated aircraft. If an accident should occur, unlike the T34,
T6 etc., there can not be an AWD to correct a problem.
The action would likely be total and permanent grounding in both the US and Canada.
Whoever is doing this is totally irresponsible.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Scofield
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use?
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational'
use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am
not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity
that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft.
Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is
essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All
of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
Message 5
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Great, He did not learn the first time when he brought down the FSDO on the
jet and recip community on the west coast. Now he is trying to be famous
again and in the process he's going to make us famous.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fischer
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use?
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to
be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked
for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com:
http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He
expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air
-combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind
of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive
'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us
all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should
inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an
approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity
is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming
them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial.
All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
FYI:
You can get a wavier from the FAA to use experimental exhibition aircraft
for commercial purposes. This is how Larry Salganek does it with MiGs an
d other aircraft and has been doing it for years. I asked him once.
These guys may or may not have a waiver, I don't know, but you can get one
or so I was told. But I hope this don't bite US in the ass.
On other more worthy fronts there was a great turnout at Coolidge and Casa
Grande fly ins today, mucho heavy warbird iron and probably eight CJs and
one 'Haiyan!'
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Scofield <patrick@designworx.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2010 5:32 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use?
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredibl
e-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern
and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation.
While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got
the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non
-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us al
l. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inf
orm this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved
use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not
credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them
.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial.
All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
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========================
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the
> owner to be Dave Riggs.
> Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
> revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
>
> http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
>
> Laterrrrr
> John Fischer
>
>
> At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
>> Gents,
>>
>> I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf
>> from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This
>> site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire
>> their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34
>> community.
>>
>> Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with
>> aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring
>> FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these
>> activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial
>> air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft.
>> Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when
>> one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
>>
>> This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the
>> commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
>>
>> Patrick Scofield
>> CJ-6P Alien Invasion
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our
Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's.
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eric@buffaloskyline.com writes:
On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to
be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
_http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm_
(http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm)
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com:
_http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf_
(http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf) from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This
site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their
enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive
'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us
all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should
inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved
use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not
credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial.
All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was
responding to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the
one who buzzed the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if
Skip Holm is associated with something, you might check your facts
before criticizing. Not saying he can't be wrong, just that he has a
lot of credibility.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
> Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down
> our Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's.
>
> Dave
>
> In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric@buffaloskyline.com
> writes:
> On the other hand, Skip Holm.
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the
>> owner to be Dave Riggs.
>> Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
>> revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
>>
>> http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
>>
>> Laterrrrr
>> John Fischer
>>
>>
>>
>> At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
>>> Gents,
>>>
>>> I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf
>>> from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This
>>> site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I
>>> admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got
>>> the T-34 community.
>>>
>>> Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with
>>> aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring
>>> FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these
>>> activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial
>>> air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft.
>>> Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when
>>> one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
>>>
>>> This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the
>>> commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong
>>> here?
>>>
>>> Patrick Scofield
>>> CJ-6P Alien Invasion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
> ===================================
> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
Wrong? How can reasoned opinions ever be wrong?
I've seen an outfit that put lasers into SM-260s flying out of
LVR ... they have 1v1 dogfights on a routine basis ... 'tag, you're
dead' I suppose. It's joy riding, more than anything else ...
regardless of the PR pieces say.
If the waivers/releases are in place, and its over unpopulated areas,
why would a crash affect the rest of us? Yes, it would be a shame to
lose the a/c of course ... but if the a/c are properly maintained ...
pilot error would be the NTSB verdict and all that would happen is
insurance rates would go up.
I hope ...
Didn't the T-34 group have material fatigue going against them? Did
they push their a/c beyond the envelope?
William
Just a YAK55 guy
At 08:39 PM 3/6/2010, Eric Wobschall wrote:
>On the other hand, Skip Holm.
>
>On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
>
>>Patrick,
>>
>>I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the
>>owner to be Dave Riggs.
>>Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
>>revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
>>
>>http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
>>
>>Laterrrrr
>>John Fischer
>>
>>
>>
>>At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
>>>Gents,
>>>
>>>I received this link to
>>>incredible-adventures.com:
>>><http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf>http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf
>>>from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site
>>>advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire
>>>their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34
>>>community.
>>>
>>>Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with
>>>aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring
>>>FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these
>>>activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial
>>>air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the
>>>aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not
>>>credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
>>>
>>>This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the
>>>commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
>>>
>>>Patrick Scofield
>>>CJ-6P Alien Invasion
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial use? |
I'm sorry, I'll attempt to =9Cconcentrate on the thread=9D an
d dumb this down
for you. In the FAA=99s eye=99s, it doesn't matter if Skip
Holm, Chuck
Yeager or Joe Pilot is operating an Experimental aircraft for Commercial
purposes and has an incident. They will find reasons why we should not fl
y rather
than why we should continue to fly. The notorious T-34 Air Combat
operations were all certified for Commercial operations in the Normal cat
egory =93
the aftermath is well known and continues to haunt our community. Perhap
s
you are expecting =9Cchange you can count on=9D?
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 9:09:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eric@buffaloskyline.com writes:
Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was respondin
g
to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the one who buzzed
the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if Skip Holm is
associated with something, you might check your facts before criticizing.
Not saying
he can't be wrong, just that he has a lot of credibility.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, _KingCJ6@aol.com_ (mailto:KingCJ6@aol.com)
wrote:
Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our
Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's.
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_eric@buffaloskyline.com_ (mailto:eric@buffaloskyline.com) writes:
On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner
to
be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
_http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm_
(http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm)
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com:
_http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf_
(http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf) from Gary Gabbard,
He expressed a concern and I agree. This
site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their
enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive
'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against
us
all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should
inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an appr
oved
use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not
credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them
.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial.
All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/
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(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
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">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
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(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution_
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(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/
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ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
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tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">_http://www.matronics.com/contributio
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com/Navigator?Yak-List
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