---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/06/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:35 PM - Commercial use? (Patrick Scofield) 2. 05:24 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Tom Elliott) 3. 05:54 PM - Re: Commercial use? (John Fischer) 4. 06:23 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Walter Lannon) 5. 06:36 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Roger Kemp M.D.) 6. 06:54 PM - Re: Commercial use? (vectorwarbirds@aol.com) 7. 08:42 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Eric Wobschall) 8. 08:54 PM - Re: Commercial use? (KingCJ6@aol.com) 9. 09:08 PM - Re: Commercial use? (Eric Wobschall) 10. 09:20 PM - Re: Commercial use? (ggg6@att.net) 11. 09:46 PM - Re: Commercial use? (William Halverson) 12. 10:34 PM - Re: Commercial use? (KingCJ6@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:51 PM PST US From: Patrick Scofield Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use? Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air- combat hops and filming them. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:08 PM PST US From: "Tom Elliott" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Commercial use? You are absolutely correct Pat! Note the pictures show Barry Hancock's plane? Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Scofield Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use? Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:33 PM PST US From: John Fischer Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? Patrick, I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs. Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm Laterrrrr John Fischer At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: >Gents, > >I received this link to >incredible-adventures.com: >http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf >from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site >advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their >enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. > >Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with >aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA >action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these >activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial >air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the >aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not >credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. > >This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the >commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? > >Patrick Scofield >CJ-6P Alien Invasion > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:03 PM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? Patrick; Could not agree with you more. This needs to be stopped - if necessary by reference to the FAA. These are non certificated aircraft. If an accident should occur, unlike the T34, T6 etc., there can not be an AWD to correct a problem. The action would likely be total and permanent grounding in both the US and Canada. Whoever is doing this is totally irresponsible. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Scofield To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use? Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:33 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Commercial use? Great, He did not learn the first time when he brought down the FSDO on the jet and recip community on the west coast. Now he is trying to be famous again and in the process he's going to make us famous. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fischer Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? Patrick, I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs. Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm Laterrrrr John Fischer At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com FYI: You can get a wavier from the FAA to use experimental exhibition aircraft for commercial purposes. This is how Larry Salganek does it with MiGs an d other aircraft and has been doing it for years. I asked him once. These guys may or may not have a waiver, I don't know, but you can get one or so I was told. But I hope this don't bite US in the ass. On other more worthy fronts there was a great turnout at Coolidge and Casa Grande fly ins today, mucho heavy warbird iron and probably eight CJs and one 'Haiyan!' TGB -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Scofield Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2010 5:32 pm Subject: Yak-List: Commercial use? Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredibl e-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non -recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us al l. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inf orm this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them .. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:33 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? On the other hand, Skip Holm. On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote: > Patrick, > > I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the > owner to be Dave Riggs. > Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence > revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. > > http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm > > Laterrrrr > John Fischer > > > At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: >> Gents, >> >> I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf >> from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This >> site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire >> their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 >> community. >> >> Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with >> aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring >> FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these >> activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial >> air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. >> Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when >> one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. >> >> This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the >> commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? >> >> Patrick Scofield >> CJ-6P Alien Invasion >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:57 PM PST US From: KingCJ6@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's. Dave In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric@buffaloskyline.com writes: On the other hand, Skip Holm. On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote: Patrick, I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs. Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. _http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm_ (http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm) Laterrrrr John Fischer At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: _http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf_ (http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf) from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:54 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was responding to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the one who buzzed the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if Skip Holm is associated with something, you might check your facts before criticizing. Not saying he can't be wrong, just that he has a lot of credibility. On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote: > Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down > our Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's. > > Dave > > In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric@buffaloskyline.com > writes: > On the other hand, Skip Holm. > > > On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote: > >> Patrick, >> >> I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the >> owner to be Dave Riggs. >> Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence >> revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. >> >> http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm >> >> Laterrrrr >> John Fischer >> >> >> >> At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: >>> Gents, >>> >>> I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf >>> from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This >>> site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I >>> admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got >>> the T-34 community. >>> >>> Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with >>> aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring >>> FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these >>> activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial >>> air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. >>> Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when >>> one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. >>> >>> This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the >>> commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong >>> here? >>> >>> Patrick Scofield >>> CJ-6P Alien Invasion >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > =================================== > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > =================================== > ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:45 PM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:14 PM PST US From: William Halverson Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? Wrong? How can reasoned opinions ever be wrong? I've seen an outfit that put lasers into SM-260s flying out of LVR ... they have 1v1 dogfights on a routine basis ... 'tag, you're dead' I suppose. It's joy riding, more than anything else ... regardless of the PR pieces say. If the waivers/releases are in place, and its over unpopulated areas, why would a crash affect the rest of us? Yes, it would be a shame to lose the a/c of course ... but if the a/c are properly maintained ... pilot error would be the NTSB verdict and all that would happen is insurance rates would go up. I hope ... Didn't the T-34 group have material fatigue going against them? Did they push their a/c beyond the envelope? William Just a YAK55 guy At 08:39 PM 3/6/2010, Eric Wobschall wrote: >On the other hand, Skip Holm. > >On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote: > >>Patrick, >> >>I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the >>owner to be Dave Riggs. >>Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence >>revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. >> >>http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm >> >>Laterrrrr >>John Fischer >> >> >> >>At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: >>>Gents, >>> >>>I received this link to >>>incredible-adventures.com: >>>http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf >>>from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site >>>advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire >>>their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 >>>community. >>> >>>Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with >>>aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring >>>FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these >>>activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial >>>air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the >>>aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not >>>credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them. >>> >>>This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the >>>commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? >>> >>>Patrick Scofield >>>CJ-6P Alien Invasion ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:20 PM PST US From: KingCJ6@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use? I'm sorry, I'll attempt to =9Cconcentrate on the thread=9D an d dumb this down for you. In the FAA=99s eye=99s, it doesn't matter if Skip Holm, Chuck Yeager or Joe Pilot is operating an Experimental aircraft for Commercial purposes and has an incident. They will find reasons why we should not fl y rather than why we should continue to fly. The notorious T-34 Air Combat operations were all certified for Commercial operations in the Normal cat egory =93 the aftermath is well known and continues to haunt our community. Perhap s you are expecting =9Cchange you can count on=9D? Dave In a message dated 3/6/2010 9:09:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric@buffaloskyline.com writes: Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was respondin g to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the one who buzzed the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if Skip Holm is associated with something, you might check your facts before criticizing. Not saying he can't be wrong, just that he has a lot of credibility. On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, _KingCJ6@aol.com_ (mailto:KingCJ6@aol.com) wrote: Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's. Dave In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, _eric@buffaloskyline.com_ (mailto:eric@buffaloskyline.com) writes: On the other hand, Skip Holm. On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote: Patrick, I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs. Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier. _http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm_ (http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm) Laterrrrr John Fischer At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote: Gents, I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: _http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf_ (http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf) from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community. Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an appr oved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them .. This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here? Patrick Scofield CJ-6P Alien Invasion href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Yak-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) ">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contri bution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Yak-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">_http://www.matronics.com/contributio n_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.