Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:37 AM - Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (keithmckinley)
2. 05:05 AM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (Eric Wobschall)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (keithmckinley)
4. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
5. 07:09 AM - Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (keithmckinley)
6. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (Mark Davis)
7. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (T A LEWIS)
8. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 01:30 PM - Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (keithmckinley)
10. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
11. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Commercial use? (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
12. 03:21 PM - Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (keithmckinley)
13. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Commercial use? (Sam Sax)
14. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Commercial use? (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
15. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas (bill wade)
16. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Commercial use? (KingCJ6@aol.com)
17. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Commercial use? (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
18. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Commercial use? (cjpilot710@AOL.COM)
19. 10:05 PM - Fuel pump parts (Tom Elliott)
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine Stabil.
http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula
Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always use 2oz of
MMO per 5 gal as well
Thoughts?
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Nice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, but of course
that doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc. Also, is spalling also
an issue with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas never use a
version with ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain amount
(<10%?) before they have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it
seems to always have it.
MMO seems to at least be harmless. Not sure about that "vapor blast"
thing that supposed to be happening. I know it's been used forever,
but I'm not sanguine about something that has the word "mystery" in
it's name.
I worry about improvising things as long as the approved fuels are
available. Of course, I appreciate the research and anecdotal reports,
considering the likely demise of 100LL.
On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:
> >
>
> A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine
> Stabil.
>
> http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula
>
> Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always
> use 2oz of MMO per 5 gal as well
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Radio,
I sent you a PM with some info on Mogas in northern NEw England. Don;t know where
you are.
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289784#289784
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Gentlemen,
If you will take some time to research the web concerning running ethanol
in aircraft you might find out the same thing we did. That almost 100%
of aircraft hoses made in the last 15 years are alcohol proof. Our long
term testing on CJ rubber produced zero effects. Thats a year soaking in
it by the way. There are many university studies and many US aircraft fl
ying on it. even P&W 985's in AG service. I believe its a lot easier and
safer to research the smartest people in the USA doing the research and
try and understand their findings instead of just a bunch of opinions on
the List. Mine included. You probably know as well as I do that 100LL
has been just a way to fleece the aviation world for years now, or why wo
uld the FAA issue STC's for using mogas in many US aircraft for so many ye
ars?
But in the final analysis eariler we have been running mogas with and with
out E10 for years now in three CJs and one Yak 18T, not one single problem
ever. But as I said do some research for yourself.
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:04 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas
Nice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, but of course that
doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc. Also, is spalling also an issue
with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas never use a version with
ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain amount (<10%?) before th
ey have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it seems to always have it
.
MMO seems to at least be harmless. Not sure about that "vapor blast" thing
that supposed to be happening. I know it's been used forever, but I'm not
sanguine about something that has the word "mystery" in it's name.
I worry about improvising things as long as the approved fuels are availab
le. Of course, I appreciate the research and anecdotal reports, considerin
g the likely demise of 100LL.
On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:
com> >
>
> A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine > St
abil.
>
> http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula
>
> Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always > use
2oz of MMO per 5 gal as well
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Gary,
with your experience I have a couple questions:
If you were letting the plane sit for longer than a month (as I do in winter in
New England) would you use any type of fuel stabilizer
Do you use any additives, such as MMO. I use mmo all the time and swear I can
tell when It's not in my fuel.
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289788#289788
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Most states don't have to disclose alcohol content in auto fuel unless it is
above 10%. The average consumer didn't know whether they could use E-10 or
not so they avoided buying it. Get a tester from EAA. They've gone up to
$18.00, but are probably worth it if you're going to burn MOGAS.
http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/autogas/test_kit.asp
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Wobschall" <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas
>
> Nice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, but of course that
> doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc. Also, is spalling also an issue
> with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas never use a version with
> ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain amount (<10%?) before
> they have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it seems to always have
> it.
>
> MMO seems to at least be harmless. Not sure about that "vapor blast"
> thing that supposed to be happening. I know it's been used forever, but
> I'm not sanguine about something that has the word "mystery" in it's
> name.
>
> I worry about improvising things as long as the approved fuels are
> available. Of course, I appreciate the research and anecdotal reports,
> considering the likely demise of 100LL.
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:
>
>> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com
>> >
>>
>> A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine
>> Stabil.
>>
>> http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula
>>
>> Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always use
>> 2oz of MMO per 5 gal as well
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> KFIT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
I disagree with the 100 LL observation . I am sure you are correct about th
e hoses made in the USA . Did you test the- all of the Chinese and Russia
n rubber parts that are available for the CJ and theYAK ?=0AThe LL in 100 L
L is used for lubrication in the older engines that do not have hardened va
lve stems and seats. The STC's for mogas-are for use-in these modern en
gines or engines with this modification .-=0AThe suppliers of- 100 LL
-have not found a suitable replacement for the lead that is not harmful ,
and is cost effective.-=0AI could be wrong.=0ATerry-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: "vectorwarbirds@aol.com" <vectorwarbi
rds@aol.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, March 9, 2010 9:55:4
4 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas=0A=0AGentl
emen,=0A=0AIf you will take some time to research the web concerning runnin
g ethanol in aircraft you might find out the same thing we did.- That alm
ost 100% of aircraft hoses made in the last 15 years are alcohol proof.-
Our long term testing on CJ rubber produced zero effects.- Thats a year s
oaking in it by the way.- There are many university studies and many US a
ircraft flying on it. even P&W 985's in AG service.- I believe its a lot
easier and safer to research the smartest people in the USA doing the resea
rch and try and understand their findings instead of just a bunch of opinio
ns on the List.- Mine included.- You probably know as well as I do that
100LL has been just a way to fleece the aviation world for years now, or w
hy would the FAA issue STC's for using mogas in many US aircraft for so man
y years?- =0A=0ABut in the final analysis eariler we have been running mo
gas with and without E10 for years now in three CJs and one Yak 18T, not on
e single problem ever.- But as I said do some research for yourself.=0A
=0ATGB=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Eric Wobschall <eri
c@buffaloskyline.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010
6:04 am=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas=0A=0A
-=0A-=0ANice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, but of c
ourse that doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc. Also, is spalling also a
n issue with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas never use a versio
n with ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain amount (<10%?) befo
re they have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it seems to always hav
e it.-=0A-=0AMMO seems to at least be harmless. Not sure about that "va
por blast" thing that supposed to be happening. I know it's been used forev
er, but I'm not sanguine about something that has the word "mystery" in it'
s name.-=0A-=0AI worry about improvising things as long as the approved
fuels are available. Of course, I appreciate the research and anecdotal re
ports, considering the likely demise of 100LL.-=0A-=0AOn Mar 9, 2010, a
t 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:-=0A-=0A> --> Yak-List message posted by
: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> >-=0A>-=0A> A considerat
ion for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine > Stabil.-=0A>-
=0A> http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula-
=0A>-=0A> Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I alw
ays > use 2oz of MMO per 5 gal as well-=0A>-=0A> Thoughts?-=0A>-=0A
> Keith-=0A>-=0A> ---------=0A> Keith McKinley-=0A> 700HS-=0A> KF
IT-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A> Read this topic online here:-=0A>
-=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767-=0A>
-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A-=0A
===========-=0Aget="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List-=0A===============
=====================-=0Attp://
forums.matronics.com-=0A================
====================-=0A"_blank">
http://www.matronics.com/contribution-=0A==========
===============
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
MMO is 2 chloro-benzene.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas
Nice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, but of course
that doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc. Also, is spalling also
an issue with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas never use a
version with ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain amount
(<10%?) before they have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it
seems to always have it.
MMO seems to at least be harmless. Not sure about that "vapor blast"
thing that supposed to be happening. I know it's been used forever,
but I'm not sanguine about something that has the word "mystery" in
it's name.
I worry about improvising things as long as the approved fuels are
available. Of course, I appreciate the research and anecdotal reports,
considering the likely demise of 100LL.
On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com
> >
>
> A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine
> Stabil.
>
> http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula
>
> Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always
> use 2oz of MMO per 5 gal as well
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
doc,
I'm just wondering/curious about the significance of that post just stating the
chemical makeup of mmo.
I have a chemistry degree and it still means nothing to me!
As was mentioned before in a post "I like the smell"
K
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289829#289829
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Keith,
I do use MMO in the fuel, one quart to 100 gallons as that is what my truc
k fueler holds. I have not used any stabilizer as my AC does not sit that
long, But I would use it if it sat for much more than a month. But of
course always keeping it topped off.
I can't imagine that MMO can hurt anything in the fuel and it seems to wor
k for us too but in the oil its another story. And I will relate my findi
ngs here. I once called a Phillips oil engineer to inquire about the use
of MMO in the oil, being its an old wives tale kind of thing. (I use Phi
llips 25/60XC year round). I won't belabor but in a nutshell he said this
"Do you think a gigantic oil company like Phillips would develop a modern
new aviation oil and then leave something out?" In other words never put
it in our oil.
Guess who makes MMO now? Turtle Wax! I think I will go with the Phillips
recommendation!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 8:09 am
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas
m>
Gary,
with your experience I have a couple questions:
If you were letting the plane sit for longer than a month (as I do in wint
er in
New England) would you use any type of fuel stabilizer
Do you use any additives, such as MMO. I use mmo all the time and swear
I can
tell when It's not in my fuel.
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289788#289788
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Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Commercial use? |
Sorry to weigh in on this.
But I see a difference. All that you described... One thing.
Putting total off the street gooners into an aircraft and allowing them
to over-G the aircraft resulting in wings being yanked off .... trying
to be Top Gun wanna-be's, quite another.
Just my 2 cents.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Every day of the year pilots are conducting Airshows FOR HIRE in
experimental airplanes (including Yaks and Nanchangs).
Several times each and every year our friends kill themselves doing this
commercial activity.
Nobody ever bats an eye.
Nobody ever says: Hey, that airshow activity is dangerous and kills
people - should we be doing that?
Why is that? I have always wondered.
In the last year we (Yaks / CJS) have lost several of our friends to
formation and aerobatic activity.
Flying is risky. There were ten (10) fatalities in my business last
year (2 takeoff, 2 formation, 1 acro, 5 weather).
2 more fatalities already this year (2 acro)
I think it is valuable to apply the same passion for friends and
aircraft regardless of the activity being conducted.
TJ
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson, Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road, Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Tel: 602-628-2701 or Toll Free: 866-475-9199
E: tomjohnson@cox.net or Fax: 623-321-5843
Free Quote: www.airpowerinsurance.com
<http://www.airpowerinsurance.com/>
* Privacy Information
<http://www.airpowerinsurance.com/apower_privacy.pdf>
** NO insurance can be started or changed by email until confirmed in
writing.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Good stuff Bundini!
Thanks for sharing all that info.
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289842#289842
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Commercial use? |
Hi Gary,
Do you know whether the GIBs asked for and received clearance from the FAA to ride
in the back (at the Show) or just did it and would have used the "needed Observer"
reasoning if questioned?
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Mar 8, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Dragonman,
I did 12 airshows last year, I saw a passenger in the back of a performing aircraft
at every single wavered show. I too wondered, but they are doing it under
the needed observer rational. I asked them. All where flying with other aircraft
in flybys or formation. The FAA was there as well. I suppose it all goes
along until something happens.
Keep on draggin!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Elliott <N13472@aol.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 7, 2010 1:40 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Tom, In the case being talked about they are going to be
taking / charging people from the general population, adults and children
( note lawyers
love wrongful death suites involving children) for
rides/aerobatics/combat in a hazardous environment. All of the
activity you refer to involves
owners, crew members. At what official Airshow ( wavered
air space) have you seen passengers during a performance?
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:48 AM
Yak-List@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Commercial
use?
Every day of the
year pilots are conducting Airshows FOR HIRE in experimental airplanes
(including Yaks and Nanchangs).
Several times each
and every year our friends kill themselves doing this commercial
activity.
Nobody ever bats
an eye.
Nobody ever says:
Hey, that airshow activity is dangerous and kills people - should we be doing
that?
Why is that?
I have always wondered.
In the last year
we (Yaks / CJS) have lost several of our friends to formation and aerobatic
activity.
Flying is
risky. There were ten (10) fatalities in my business last year (2
takeoff, 2 formation, 1 acro, 5 weather).
2 more fatalities
already this year (2 acro)
I think it is
valuable to apply the same passion for friends and aircraft regardless of the
activity being conducted.
TJ
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson, Airpower Insurance,
LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road,
Phoenix, AZ
85013-1235
Tel:
602-628-2701 or Toll Free:
866-475-9199
E: tomjohnson@cox.net or
Fax: 623-321-5843
Free Quote: www.airpowerinsurance.com
* Privacy
Information
** NO insurance can be started or
changed by email until confirmed in writing.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===================================
ator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Commercial use? |
Hey Sam,
>From the two guys I talked to it was just "don't ask - don't tell". Don'
t say nothing until asked. The jet pilot said he has never been questione
d but if he was he would pull out the its 'a safety issue' gun. And I can
tell you why, every time we ask the FAA anything the answer is NO!
Cheers!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Hi Gary,
Do you know whether the GIBs asked for and received clearance from the FAA
to
ride in the back (at the Show) or just did it and would have used the "nee
ded
Observer" reasoning if questioned?
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Mar 8, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Dragonman,
I did 12 airshows last year, I saw a passenger in the back of a performing
aircraft at every single wavered show. I too wondered, but they are doing
it
under the needed observer rational. I asked them. All where flying with
other
aircraft in flybys or formation. The FAA was there as well. I suppose it
all
goes along until something happens.
Keep on draggin!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Elliott <N13472@aol.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 7, 2010 1:40 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Tom, In the case being talked about they are going to be
taking / charging people from the general population, adults and children
( note lawyers
love wrongful death suites involving children) for
rides/aerobatics/combat in a hazardous environment. All of the
activity you refer to involves
owners, crew members. At what official Airshow ( wavered
air space) have you seen passengers during a performance?
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:48 AM
Yak-List@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Commercial
use?
Every day of the
year pilots are conducting Airshows FOR HIRE in experimental airplanes
(including Yaks and Nanchangs).
Several times each
and every year our friends kill themselves doing this commercial
activity.
Nobody ever bats
an eye.
Nobody ever says:
Hey, that airshow activity is dangerous and kills people - should we be
doing
that?
Why is that?
I have always wondered.
In the last year
we (Yaks / CJS) have lost several of our friends to formation and aeroba
tic
activity.
Flying is
risky. There were ten (10) fatalities in my business last year (2
takeoff, 2 formation, 1 acro, 5 weather).
2 more fatalities
already this year (2 acro)
I think it is
valuable to apply the same passion for friends and aircraft regardless
of the
activity being conducted.
TJ
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson, Airpower Insurance,
LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road,
Phoenix, AZ
85013-1235
Tel:
602-628-2701 or Toll Free:
866-475-9199
E: tomjohnson@cox.net or
Fax: 623-321-5843
Free Quote: www.airpowerinsurance.com
* Privacy
Information
** NO insurance can be started or
changed by email until confirmed in writing.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
ator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
========================
===========
ttp://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas |
Terry There may be a solution to the fuel problem. I've been following this
company for the last year and a halve seems to me if our government doesnt
stop them it could work.=0ABill Wade=0A-=0ASwift Renewable Fuels=0AWelco
me to the next generation of aviation fuels.=0AAccording to an EPA press re
lease, "Lead has been blended with gasoline, primarily to boost octane leve
ls, since the early 1920s. EPA began working to reduce lead emissions soon
after its inception, issuing the first reduction standards in 1973, which c
alled for a gradual phasedown of lead to one tenth of a gram per gallon by
1986. The average lead content in gasoline in 1973 was 2-3 grams per gallon
or about 200,000 tons of lead a year. In 1975, passenger cars and light tr
ucks were manufactured with a more elaborate emission control system which
included a catalytic converter that required lead-free fuel. In 1995 leaded
fuel accounted for only 0.6 percent of total gasoline sales and less than
2,000 tons of lead per year. Effective January 1, 1996, the Clean Air Act b
anned the sale of the small amount of leaded fuel that was still available
in some parts of the country for use in on-road vehicles. EPA said fuel con
taining lead may continue to be sold for
off-road uses, including aircraft, racing cars, farm equipment, and marine
engines." =0AReference: EPA press release=0ASwift has this solution.=0AUnl
ike the current process of refining crude oil to arrive at a final fuel, we
synthetically create hydrocarbons from bio-mass. This creation method is s
uperior to the existing refining method because we maintain control over th
e entire process giving us the flexibility to meet or exceed current ASTM s
pecifications. =0A=0AThe advantages of SwiftFuel are: =0A* Seamless repl
acement of 100LL (no engine modifications) =0A* 15% increase in range ov
er 100LL (no oxygenates) =0A* 20% drop in pollutants over the current 10
0LL fuel =0A* 15% more volumetric energy than 100LL =0A* No need for
stabilizers or additives=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF
rom: T A LEWIS <talew@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: T
ue, March 9, 2010 10:41:40 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N
Fun and Mogas=0A=0A=0AI disagree with the 100 LL observation . I am sure y
ou are correct about the hoses made in the USA . Did you test the- all of
the Chinese and Russian rubber parts that are available for the CJ and the
YAK ?=0AThe LL in 100 LL is used for lubrication in the older engines that
do not have hardened valve stems and seats. The STC's for mogas-are for u
se-in these modern engines or engines with this modification .-=0AThe s
uppliers of- 100 LL-have not found a suitable replacement for the lead
that is not harmful , and is cost effective.-=0AI could be wrong.=0ATerry
-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "vectorwarbirds@
aol.com" <vectorwarbirds@aol.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue,
March 9, 2010 9:55:44 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun
and Mogas=0A=0AGentlemen,=0A=0AIf you will take some time to research the
web concerning running ethanol in aircraft you might find out the same thin
g we did.- That almost 100% of aircraft hoses made in the last 15 years a
re alcohol proof.- Our long term testing on CJ rubber produced zero effec
ts.- Thats a year soaking in it by the way.- There are many university
studies and many US aircraft flying on it. even P&W 985's in AG service.-
I believe its a lot easier and safer to research the smartest people in th
e USA doing the research and try and understand their findings instead of j
ust a bunch of opinions on the List.- Mine included.- You probably know
as well as I do that 100LL has been just a way to fleece the aviation worl
d for years now, or why would the FAA issue STC's for using mogas in many U
S aircraft for so many years?- =0A=0ABut in the final analysis eariler we
have been running mogas with and without E10 for years now in three CJs an
d one Yak 18T, not one single problem ever.- But as I said do some resear
ch for yourself.=0A=0ATGB=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom:
Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:04 am=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N F
uffaloskyline.com>-=0A-=0ANice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of
ethanol, but of course that doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc. Also,
is spalling also an issue with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas
never use a version with ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain a
mount (<10%?) before they have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it s
eems to always have it.-=0A-=0AMMO seems to at least be harmless. Not s
ure about that "vapor blast" thing that supposed to be happening. I know it
's been used forever, but I'm not sanguine about something that has the wor
d "mystery" in it's name.-=0A-=0AI worry about improvising things as lo
ng as the approved fuels are available. Of course, I appreciate the researc
h and anecdotal reports, considering the likely demise of 100LL.-=0A-
=0AOn Mar 9, 2010, at 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:-=0A-=0A> --> Yak-Li
st message posted by: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> >-=0A>
-=0A> A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine
> Stabil.-=0A>-=0A> http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.as
px#marine_formula-=0A>-=0A> Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to tr
eat your fuel. I always > use 2oz of MMO per 5 gal as well-=0A>-=0A> Th
oughts?-=0A>-=0A> Keith-=0A>-=0A> ---------=0A> Keith McKinley-
=0A> 700HS-=0A> KFIT-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A> Read this topic o
nline here:-=0A>-=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289
767#289767-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>-=0A>
-=0A>-=0A-=0A==================
==================-=0Aget="_blank">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List-=0A========
===-=0Attp://forums.matronics.com-=0A=========
==-=0A"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution-=0A===
========-=0A-=0A-=0A=0A =0Aist" rel=nofollow targ
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- href="http://www.matr
-========================
=============0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Commercial use? |
I've participated in West coast shows under 3 different FSDO's
jurisdiction. In all cases, the Fed's made it crystal clear in the performer's
brief
that no GIB's would be tolerated ("we will be watching with binoculars").
This was even the case if the a/c was departing the area, during the
wavered period, after the performance with a passenger.
Could it be that the East is more liberal than the West??
Dave
In a message dated 3/9/2010 7:10:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
vectorwarbirds@aol.com writes:
Hey Sam,
>From the two guys I talked to it was just "don't ask - don't tell".
Don't say nothing until asked. The jet pilot said he has never been
questioned but if he was he would pull out the its 'a safety issue' gun. And
I can
tell you why, every time we ask the FAA anything the answer is NO!
Cheers!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
(mailto:cd001633@mindspring.com) >
Hi Gary,
Do you know whether the GIBs asked for and received clearance from the FAA
to
ride in the back (at the Show) or just did it and would have used the
"needed
Observer" reasoning if questioned?
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: _vectorwarbirds@aol.com_ (mailto:vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
Sent: Mar 8, 2010 12:08 PM
To: _yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Dragonman,
I did 12 airshows last year, I saw a passenger in the back of a performing
aircraft at every single wavered show. I too wondered, but they are doing
it
under the needed observer rational. I asked them. All where flying with
other
aircraft in flybys or formation. The FAA was there as well. I suppose it
all
goes along until something happens.
Keep on draggin!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Elliott <_N13472@aol.com_ (mailto:N13472@aol.com) >
To: _yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, Mar 7, 2010 1:40 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Tom, In the case being talked about they are going to be
taking / charging people from the general population, adults and children
( note lawyers
love wrongful death suites involving children) for
rides/aerobatics/combat in a hazardous environment. All of the
activity you refer to involves
owners, crew members. At what official Airshow ( wavered
air space) have you seen passengers during a performance?
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of Tom
Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:48 AM
To:
_Yak-List@matronics.com_ (mailto:Yak-List@matronics.com)
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Commercial
use?
Every day of the
year pilots are conducting Airshows FOR HIRE in experimental airplanes
(including Yaks and Nanchangs).
Several times each
and every year our friends kill themselves doing this commercial
activity.
Nobody ever bats
an eye.
Nobody ever says:
Hey, that airshow activity is dangerous and kills people - should we be
doing
that?
Why is that?
I have always wondered.
In the last year
we (Yaks / CJS) have lost several of our friends to formation and
aerobatic
activity.
Flying is
risky. There were ten (10) fatalities in my business last year (2
takeoff, 2 formation, 1 acro, 5 weather).
2 more fatalities
already this year (2 acro)
I think it is
valuable to apply the same passion for friends and aircraft regardless
of the
activity being conducted.
TJ
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson, Airpower Insurance,
LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road,
Phoenix, AZ
85013-1235
Tel:
602-628-2701 or Toll Free:
866-475-9199
E: _tomjohnson@cox.net_ (mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net) or
Fax: 623-321-5843
Free Quote: _www.airpowerinsurance.com_
(http://www.airpowerinsurance.com/)
* Privacy
Information
** NO insurance can be started or
changed by email until confirmed in writing.
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c)
===================================
ator?Yak-List">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
===================================
ttp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
ibution">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
===================================
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Commercial use? |
Well I might add now that I think about it that these shows were all at
military bases and multiple aircraft flew at the same time. Who knows?
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: KingCJ6@aol.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 8:33 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
I've participated in West coast shows under 3 different FSDO's jurisdictio
n. In all cases, the Fed's made it crystal clear in the performer's brief
that no GIB's would be tolerated ("we will be watching with binoculars").
This was even the case if the a/c was departing the area, during the wav
ered period, after the performance with a passenger.
Could it be that the East is more liberal than the West??
Dave
In a message dated 3/9/2010 7:10:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, vectorwarb
irds@aol.com writes:
Hey Sam,
>From the two guys I talked to it was just "don't ask - don't tell".
Don't say nothing until asked. The jet pilot said he has never been qu
estioned but if he was he would pull out the its 'a safety issue' gun.
And I can tell you why, every time we ask the FAA anything the answer
is NO!
Cheers!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Hi Gary,
Do you know whether the GIBs asked for and received clearance from the FAA
to
ride in the back (at the Show) or just did it and would have used the "nee
ded
Observer" reasoning if questioned?
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Mar 8, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Dragonman,
I did 12 airshows last year, I saw a passenger in the back of a performing
aircraft at every single wavered show. I too wondered, but they are doing
it
under the needed observer rational. I asked them. All where flying with
other
aircraft in flybys or formation. The FAA was there as well. I suppose it
all
goes along until something happens.
Keep on draggin!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Elliott <N13472@aol.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 7, 2010 1:40 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Tom, In the case being talked about they are going to be
taking / charging people from the general population, adults and children
( note lawyers
love wrongful death suites involving children) for
rides/aerobatics/combat in a hazardous environment. All of the
activity you refer to involves
owners, crew members. At what official Airshow ( wavered
air space) have you seen passengers during a performance?
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:48 AM
Yak-List@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Commercial
use?
Every day of the
year pilots are conducting Airshows FOR HIRE in experimental airplanes
(including Yaks and Nanchangs).
Several times each
and every year our friends kill themselves doing this commercial
activity.
Nobody ever bats
an eye.
Nobody ever says:
Hey, that airshow activity is dangerous and kills people - should we be
doing
that?
Why is that?
I have always wondered.
In the last year
we (Yaks / CJS) have lost several of our friends to formation and aeroba
tic
activity.
Flying is
risky. There were ten (10) fatalities in my business last year (2
takeoff, 2 formation, 1 acro, 5 weather).
2 more fatalities
already this year (2 acro)
I think it is
valuable to apply the same passion for friends and aircraft regardless
of the
activity being conducted.
TJ
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson, Airpower Insurance,
LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road,
Phoenix, AZ
85013-1235
Tel:
602-628-2701 or Toll Free:
866-475-9199
E: tomjohnson@cox.net or
Fax: 623-321-5843
Free Quote: www.airpowerinsurance.com
* Privacy
Information
** NO insurance can be started or
changed by email until confirmed in writing.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
ator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
========================
===========
ttp://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
========================
===========
ttp://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
========================
===========
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
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========================
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Commercial use? |
At OSH, S&F and TICO (different FSDOs) it is always the same. NO GIBs- ex
cept,
First time PIC in a formation, than a FAST rated GIB can sit there to advi
se.
Mass lead can have a GIB who also a lead to help manage the flights and ex
tra eyes.
Mass lead may have a GIB who will be checking out as a mass lead of course
he is a rated FAST lead..
The airboss is very specific about GIBs during the general briefing, and
each and every case is cleared with the FAA observer right there.
You can have GIB if you are departing during wavered airspace but can not
participate in the show ie you takeoff and leave. Plus you need to clear
that with airboss.
Absolutely no girl friends, pastor, photographer, sponsors, other show pil
ots, line boys, etc etc.
I have seen the FAA guy OK a active military pilot ride as observer.
The only time GIBs has been allowed in a mass formation, in wavered airspa
ce is at OSH. On 'Warbird Arrival Day" all in bound warbirds arrive at th
e same time, during wavered airspace, the groups are allowed to have GIBs
at that time and no other.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: KingCJ6@aol.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 10:33 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
I've participated in West coast shows under 3 different FSDO's jurisdictio
n. In all cases, the Fed's made it crystal clear in the performer's brief
that no GIB's would be tolerated ("we will be watching with binoculars").
This was even the case if the a/c was departing the area, during the wav
ered period, after the performance with a passenger.
Could it be that the East is more liberal than the West??
Dave
In a message dated 3/9/2010 7:10:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, vectorwarb
irds@aol.com writes:
Hey Sam,
>From the two guys I talked to it was just "don't ask - don't tell". Don
't say nothing until asked. The jet pilot said he has never been question
ed but if he was he would pull out the its 'a safety issue' gun. And I ca
n tell you why, every time we ask the FAA anything the answer is NO!
Cheers!
TGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
i Gary,
o you know whether the GIBs asked for and received clearance from the FAA
to
ide in the back (at the Show) or just did it and would have used the "need
ed
bserver" reasoning if questioned?
am Sax
----Original Message-----
rom: vectorwarbirds@aol.com
ent: Mar 8, 2010 12:08 PM
o: yak-list@matronics.com
ubject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
Dragonman,
did 12 airshows last year, I saw a passenger in the back of a performing
ircraft at every single wavered show. I too wondered, but they are doing
it
nder the needed observer rational. I asked them. All where flying with
other
ircraft in flybys or formation. The FAA was there as well. I suppose it
all
oes along until something happens.
eep on draggin!
GB
----Original Message-----
rom: Tom Elliott <N13472@aol.com>
o: yak-list@matronics.com
ent: Sun, Mar 7, 2010 1:40 pm
ubject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Commercial use?
om, In the case being talked about they are going to be
aking / charging people from the general population, adults and children
note lawyers
ove wrongful death suites involving children) for
ides/aerobatics/combat in a hazardous environment. All of the
ctivity you refer to involves
wners, crew members. At what official Airshow ( wavered
ir space) have you seen passengers during a performance?
om Elliott
J-6A NX63727
02-595-2680
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Johnson
ent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:48 AM
o:
Yak-List@matronics.com
ubject: Yak-List: RE: Commercial
use?
very day of the
year pilots are conducting Airshows FOR HIRE in experimental airplanes
(including Yaks and Nanchangs).
everal times each
and every year our friends kill themselves doing this commercial
activity.
obody ever bats
an eye.
obody ever says:
Hey, that airshow activity is dangerous and kills people - should we be
doing
that?
hy is that?
I have always wondered.
n the last year
we (Yaks / CJS) have lost several of our friends to formation and aerobat
ic
activity.
lying is
risky. There were ten (10) fatalities in my business last year (2
takeoff, 2 formation, 1 acro, 5 weather).
more fatalities
already this year (2 acro)
think it is
valuable to apply the same passion for friends and aircraft regardless of
the
activity being conducted.
J
--------------------------
homas Johnson, Airpower Insurance,
LLC
6 West Ocotillo Road,
Phoenix, AZ
85013-1235
el:
602-628-2701 or Toll Free:
866-475-9199
: tomjohnson@cox.net or
Fax: 623-321-5843
ree Quote: www.airpowerinsurance.com
Privacy
Information
* NO insurance can be started or
changed by email until confirmed in writing.
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To ALL! I am looking for the two rubber seals that go on the fuel pump shaft
for a stock 285 hp Housi?
I have already tried Doug Sapp. Any one know where I can get these?
Thank You
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
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