Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on pre-moratorium aircra (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
2. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Experimental Class (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
3. 10:51 AM - Your E-mail; please phone if you need an immediate response. (Cliff Magee)
4. 10:57 AM - Re: First Certification (racemech11)
5. 11:00 AM - Re: Fuel feed problem in a YAK-55 (racemech11)
6. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on pre-moratorium aircra (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on pre-moratorium aircra (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 12:59 PM - Experimental Class and more (Cpayne)
9. 01:00 PM - UTVA-66 (Jerry Painter)
10. 01:43 PM - Re: Experimental Class and more (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on pre-moratorium |
aircra
Ray, based on what I have learned, the Operating Limitations must be
updated when you purchase the aircraft, because:
1. The new special airworthiness certificate needs to be in your name,
which means it now has a new date.
2. The operating limitations must have a date on it that matches your
special airworthiness certificate.
You should have the previous airworthiness certificate and operating
limitations from the previous owner on hand. The FAA does not have to
have a record of ANYTHING. YOU HAVE THE RECORD IN YOUR HANDS! You make
a copy and send it to them, they type up new ones and CHANGE NOTHING,
and you're done.
My unsolicited advice... You should NOT start all over again unless you
have no copies of anything as well, and then you're toast.
Again, if they lose them... That's their problem, not yours. IF YOU
HAVE THEM, you just tell them to type them up.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jb92563
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:54 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on
pre-moratorium aircra
I am also going through something similar with My Experimental
Exhibition Motor Glider.
When I bought the aircraft I moved it to a different FSDO's jurisdiction
so i thought I had to update the Operating Limitations.
The FAA fellows initial response was that he did not find any direction
requiring me to do that.
But I did find my special airwothiness cert and Op limitations date did
not match and wanted to rectify the situation.
I had SA Cert dated 1991 and Op Lim's dated 1993.
I was informed that the FAA had no record of any of them in their
archives since 1984!
Did they conveniently loose all the unlimited special airworthy certs
from Scottdale,AZ before archiving. ...jeez what the heck is going on!
Called the AZ FSDO and they did not have them either.
So now it looks like I will have to apply again. and go through the
hassle all over, because nobody in the FAA knows much about self launch
gliders (motor gliders)
I did find it good to hear that the FAA can not arbitrarily change your
Op Lims, but what if they lose them?
Frustrated,
Ray
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298776#298776
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Class |
Just went talking to a very good FAA Rep from another FSDO with over 20
years experience, and he agrees with what you just said.
More on that conversation later.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of racemech11
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Experimental Class
Let me put my .02 cents worth in and it is just my understanding. I
think, as you can see, there are many with an understanding and
somewhere in them is the real truth.
Be very careful with the way your operating limitations are written.
Usually, if it is a certified product, such as an airframe, engine,
prop, etc. and is moving into the experimental category, the limitations
will state that the product will be maintained in accordance with Part
43.
If this statement is included in your operating limitations, you are
required to comply with A.D.'s (my understanding of this stuff.)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298795#298795
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| Subject: | Your E-mail; please phone if you need an immediate response. |
Your e-mail generated this automated response. This auto response does not mean
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related, if received, is awaiting reading.
We attempt to respond to all e-mails as quickly as possible. Please phone (866)
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| Subject: | Re: First Certification |
EAA Warbirds website, http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/forms/, has a three examples of Program Letters that may help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298834#298834
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel feed problem in a YAK-55 |
Anyone have a spare gauge? I only have one on the left side and would like to add
one on the right.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298835#298835
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on pre-moratorium |
aircra
Mark,
FWIW, the Special Airworthiness Certificate or any Airworthiness
Certificate for that matter is never in the name of any individual or
corporation. The Certificate is issued for the airplane, not an
individual.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on
pre-moratorium aircra
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Ray, based on what I have learned, the Operating Limitations must be
updated when you purchase the aircraft, because:
1. The new special airworthiness certificate needs to be in your
name,
which means it now has a new date.
2. The operating limitations must have a date on it that matches your
special airworthiness certificate.
You should have the previous airworthiness certificate and operating
limitations from the previous owner on hand. The FAA does not have to
have a record of ANYTHING. YOU HAVE THE RECORD IN YOUR HANDS! You
make
a copy and send it to them, they type up new ones and CHANGE NOTHING,
and you're done.
My unsolicited advice... You should NOT start all over again unless
you
have no copies of anything as well, and then you're toast.
Again, if they lose them... That's their problem, not yours. IF YOU
HAVE THEM, you just tell them to type them up.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jb92563
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:54 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on
pre-moratorium aircra
I am also going through something similar with My Experimental
Exhibition Motor Glider.
When I bought the aircraft I moved it to a different FSDO's
jurisdiction
so i thought I had to update the Operating Limitations.
The FAA fellows initial response was that he did not find any
direction
requiring me to do that.
But I did find my special airwothiness cert and Op limitations date
did
not match and wanted to rectify the situation.
I had SA Cert dated 1991 and Op Lim's dated 1993.
I was informed that the FAA had no record of any of them in their
archives since 1984!
Did they conveniently loose all the unlimited special airworthy certs
from Scottdale,AZ before archiving. ...jeez what the heck is going
on!
Called the AZ FSDO and they did not have them either.
So now it looks like I will have to apply again. and go through the
hassle all over, because nobody in the FAA knows much about self
launch
gliders (motor gliders)
I did find it good to hear that the FAA can not arbitrarily change
your
Op Lims, but what if they lose them?
Frustrated,
Ray
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298776#298776
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on pre-moratorium |
aircra
Rog.. I stand corrected.
More info to follow on engine AD's. I am talking to a whole slew of FAA
guys right now, that are HELPING. Obviously not in THIS area.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on
pre-moratorium aircra
Mark,
FWIW, the Special Airworthiness Certificate or any Airworthiness
Certificate for that matter is never in the name of any individual or
corporation. The Certificate is issued for the airplane, not an
individual.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations
on pre-moratorium aircra
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Ray, based on what I have learned, the Operating Limitations
must be
updated when you purchase the aircraft, because:
1. The new special airworthiness certificate needs to be in
your name,
which means it now has a new date.
2. The operating limitations must have a date on it that
matches your
special airworthiness certificate.
You should have the previous airworthiness certificate and
operating
limitations from the previous owner on hand. The FAA does not
have to
have a record of ANYTHING. YOU HAVE THE RECORD IN YOUR HANDS!
You make
a copy and send it to them, they type up new ones and CHANGE
NOTHING,
and you're done.
My unsolicited advice... You should NOT start all over again
unless you
have no copies of anything as well, and then you're toast.
Again, if they lose them... That's their problem, not yours. IF
YOU
HAVE THEM, you just tell them to type them up.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jb92563
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:54 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: FSDO changing operating limitations on
pre-moratorium aircra
I am also going through something similar with My Experimental
Exhibition Motor Glider.
When I bought the aircraft I moved it to a different FSDO's
jurisdiction
so i thought I had to update the Operating Limitations.
The FAA fellows initial response was that he did not find any
direction
requiring me to do that.
But I did find my special airwothiness cert and Op limitations
date did
not match and wanted to rectify the situation.
I had SA Cert dated 1991 and Op Lim's dated 1993.
I was informed that the FAA had no record of any of them in
their
archives since 1984!
Did they conveniently loose all the unlimited special airworthy
certs
from Scottdale,AZ before archiving. ...jeez what the heck is
going on!
Called the AZ FSDO and they did not have them either.
So now it looks like I will have to apply again. and go through
the
hassle all over, because nobody in the FAA knows much about self
launch
gliders (motor gliders)
I did find it good to hear that the FAA can not arbitrarily
change your
Op Lims, but what if they lose them?
Frustrated,
Ray
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298776#298776
http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Experimental Class and more |
Good piece by John Cox but with one picky...using a certified engine/prop combo
will shorten Phase I from 40 hours to 25 hours, not a real big deal but helpful.
Of course, it can go "experimental" at some point after that.
As a Light-Sport repairman, a couple of rules stand out in contrast: Changes are
NOT allowed after certification unless so allowed by the Manufacturer (not FAA).
However, if any installed equipment was TSO'd when certified, that equipment
is subject to AD compliance. For those folks with the ESLA version (an over
50% kit), it must remain the same as the Special version, which means compliance
with AD's on that equipment.
I'm told that the FAA likes this language, it gets them out of the loop yet places
compliance on the Owner and Mechanic, with all paperwork coming from the Manufacturer.
This thinking was strained when wings started coming off one kit
model and the NSTB called for grounding.
Luckily, the EAA and AOPA watch the fine print in all proposed changes. Some day
it might be us, again. There was that foreign warbird moratorium back in the
90's.
Craig Payne
Message 9
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Experimental Class and more |
I do not know if the YAK list server will allow an attachment or not,
but this attachment addresses Experimental Aircraft with certified
engines and props and addresses if AD's apply. It also addresses
removal of engine data plates. If it does not "go" to the list... I'll
try another approach. The key words are:
If the engine or prop was Type Certificated or "TSO'ed" then all AD's
for same MUST be complied with. No exceptions. Data Plate removal, log
book entries, whatever. Remember... I don't know anything about this
issue personally, other than what I am trying to pass along. Don't
shoot the messenger. If anyone wants a personal email copy of this
thing if it fails to "post", just let me know.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cpayne
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:57 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Experimental Class and more
Good piece by John Cox but with one picky...using a certified
engine/prop combo will shorten Phase I from 40 hours to 25 hours, not a
real big deal but helpful. Of course, it can go "experimental" at some
point after that.
As a Light-Sport repairman, a couple of rules stand out in contrast:
Changes are NOT allowed after certification unless so allowed by the
Manufacturer (not FAA). However, if any installed equipment was TSO'd
when certified, that equipment is subject to AD compliance. For those
folks with the ESLA version (an over 50% kit), it must remain the same
as the Special version, which means compliance with AD's on that
equipment.
I'm told that the FAA likes this language, it gets them out of the loop
yet places compliance on the Owner and Mechanic, with all paperwork
coming from the Manufacturer. This thinking was strained when wings
started coming off one kit model and the NSTB called for grounding.
Luckily, the EAA and AOPA watch the fine print in all proposed changes.
Some day it might be us, again. There was that foreign warbird
moratorium back in the 90's.
Craig Payne
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