Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: Politics and CJ's - Correction (SC)
2. 06:38 AM - Re: Cessena Bans use of ethanol based fuels in its' aircraft (jetjockey)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Cessena Bans use of ethanol based fuels in its' aircraft (William Halverson)
4. 08:29 AM - new air problem (Bill1200)
5. 08:39 AM - Re: new air problem (LawnDart)
6. 09:01 AM - Re: new air problem (Bill1200)
7. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: new air problem (kingcj6@aol.com)
8. 09:15 AM - Re: new air problem (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 09:35 AM - Re: new air problem (Bill1200)
10. 09:39 AM - Re: YAK-52 gear light (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 03:45 PM - Re: new air problem (Paul Hamlin)
12. 03:53 PM - Re: new air problem (Eric Wobschall)
13. 08:32 PM - Re: new air problem (Roger Kemp M.D.)
14. 09:39 PM - Re: Yak 52 Starter Sequence? (Bill Lang)
15. 11:22 PM - Re: new air problem (William Halverson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Politics and CJ's - Correction |
Good luck Mr Calloway - I am sure you are the man for the job. My remarks
were aimed at the system not you personally. My apologies to fellow
Subscribers for wasting space.
Biggles usa
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Calloway
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Politics and CJ's - Correction
Yak List Subscribers, thank you and thank you for the comments Bigglesusa,
Your comments describe precisely what Brits' will never know about American
Politics.
The original post from fellow RPAer Bill Mills was for (if I have it right)
financial support of our effort to put fiscal responsibility back into our
government. To do that it takes a BROAD base of financial support not just
from some Bloke who can put up the whole LOT to make it happen. No offense
intended.
This may happen in the UK, (and rarely does happen in the US) but in the US,
the best elected officials are ones who have the support from a broad base
of contributors.
I apologize for my reference to the price of a good YAK being the cost of
our campaign because I surely am not referring to the US dollars derived
from me personally. Even if, I could afford to PURCHASE the elected
position, I would not want to be elected in that manner.
Finally, to those who subscribe to this List, I ask only two things. If you
know someone who can vote for me, tell them it is and an okay decision. If
you only know me thru this list and cannot vote for me, just pray we can
make a difference.
Sincerely,
Pumper
On Jun 1, 2010, at 5:24 PM, SC wrote:
Being a Brit that's what I find so undemocratic about the US of A - people
are elected to public office based on how much they have in their pocket NOT
ability. In UK ability can still get you elected to Parliament and anybody
can become Prime Minister without Millions behind their campaigns.
.....and our Health Service is better despite all the rumours.
Bigglesusa
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Calloway
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Politics and CJ's - Correction
Thank you Pirate very much for those kind words.
One small correction,
I am running for the Kansas House of Representatives not the US House.
Gotta start somewhere but even that is going to cost the price of a good
YAK.
Thanks to all for your support.
Pumper
On Jun 1, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Bill Mills wrote:
Good Day all,
That subject line typically doesn't go together, but I wanted to alert
everyone on this page to the fact that one of our brothers, Terry "Pumper"
Calloway has decided to run for office and try and bring some decency and
accountability back to Washington while also promoting our freedoms in the
general aviation arena. He's running for 3rd District Representative in
Kansas. www.terrycalloway.com <http://www.terrycalloway.com/> .
Terry has always been a huge supporter of the RPA and this list, so I wanted
to throw my support behind one that has done so much for our organization
and invite all of us to lend a hand in getting him to Washington. We need
more folks like Terry in Washington to ensure that our passion for flying
remains one of our cherished freedoms.
Good Luck Pumper!
Bill Mills
Blue Sky Yakrobatics, Inc
Owner, Chief Pilot
www.yakrobatics.com <x-msg://26/www.yakrobatics.com>
<image002.jpg>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
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bution
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cessena Bans use of ethanol based fuels in its' aircraft |
The last 3 stations in my region that sold "real" gas all abruptly quit this week
when the distributor told them they would have to pay an astronomical premium
to have it delivered to their stations. All I can get now is this ethanol
laced crap. So far it has ruined 2 of my weed eaters, screwed up our dirt bikes,
and completely eaten up my golf cart fuel system. The good news is that we
get about 15-20% less MPG in our cars when we run it in them! I inadvertently
fueled my CJ with E10 a few years back and it turned my carburetor diaphragm
into mush in a matter of just a few weeks. Beware if you think it is safe to
run this stuff in your airplane; I can show you evidence otherwise (and apparently
Cessna agrees).
Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299719#299719
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| Subject: | Re: Cessena Bans use of ethanol based fuels in its' |
aircraft
This is scary stuff .... we have noticed the performance of our cars/trucks is
worse when we fuel them with ethanol laced gas. Anyone else have that experience?
Now I have to worry that their fuel systems will gunk up, too?
William
+-----Original Message-----
+From: jetjockey [mailto:jetjockey@alumni.utexas.net]
+Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2010 06:38 AM
+To: yak-list@matronics.com
+Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cessena Bans use of ethanol based fuels in its' aircraft
+
+
+The last 3 stations in my region that sold "real" gas all abruptly quit this week
when the distributor told them they would have to pay an astronomical premium
to have it delivered to their stations. All I can get now is this ethanol
laced crap. So far it has ruined 2 of my weed eaters, screwed up our dirt bikes,
and completely eaten up my golf cart fuel system. The good news is that
we get about 15-20% less MPG in our cars when we run it in them! I inadvertently
fueled my CJ with E10 a few years back and it turned my carburetor diaphragm
into mush in a matter of just a few weeks. Beware if you think it is safe
to run this stuff in your airplane; I can show you evidence otherwise (and apparently
Cessna agrees).
+
+Ray
+
+
+
+
+Read this topic online here:
+
+http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299719#299719
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
Message 4
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Replaced compressor 7 months ago and all has been well, until.....
Left the air valve open by mistake after a flight about 3 weeks ago. Pressure had
bled down to about 2, when I got back a few days later. Thought no big deal,
filled it up externally and went about my flight. Then on the next flight prep
noticed the pressure down to about 3, checked the valve which was off. Started
OK at 3, but noticed VERY slow build up, barely got up to 4 during the flight.
Checked the snot valve yesterday and seems good (no leak). Checked pressure
after several days on the ground with no loss of pressure (valve off). Took
the pressure down to 2 by actuating flaps, ran at 50% sitting on the ground,
took about 10minutes to get to 3.
Another thing I've noticed, when I fill it externally it pops off about 6 and bleeds
down to about 5.5. Never has the compressor got up to 5.5 either the old
one or the new one. Don;t understand that.
So, question is where to start looking for MOST likely leak source??????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299729#299729
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| Subject: | Re: new air problem |
Most likely the line from compressor to snot bottle. They can develop hairline
cracks and cause the slow build-up symptom (I find clacks near the fitting near
snot bottle). Another possibility is are the fittings at the compressor.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299731#299731
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| Subject: | Re: new air problem |
Thanks, spray soapy water in those areas? Also heard about an electronic air leak
detector. Any truth to that?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299735#299735
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| Subject: | Re: new air problem |
Amprobe ULD 300 Ultrasonic Gas Leak Detector
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill1200 <billdykes52@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00 am
Subject: Yak-List: Re: new air problem
Thanks, spray soapy water in those areas? Also heard about an electronic
air
eak detector. Any truth to that?
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299735#299735
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Message 8
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LawnDart (which is what we call F-18's in the Corps) mentioned the line
going from the compressor to the snot valve. This line ... The one with
the "loop" in it .........fails a lot. Which is why in some other
Russian designs (notably the Sukhoi's) they replace this with a steel
braided flex line, which is what I have done as well in my YAK-50.
Problem solved. I think Doug Sapp might even be able to make these
things for you. Not sure, but worth asking. He also mentioned there
can be leaks in the Banjo Fitting at the compressor. This is also right
on the money, and there is check valve in there that can leak as well.
What I have done is to reverse pressurize this line by removing it from
the snot valve, and then hooking it to a high pressure source and
applying 700 psi and listening for leaks. The Banjo Fitting at the
compressor uses crush washers and if you don't put in new ones once you
have taken it apart and put it back together again, it might leak. I've
gotten away with not using new ones a few times, but .... Luck of the
draw.
I will offer one more thing. I have noticed that when I have had to use
the external filling port, that if I am not careful I can put in WAY too
much air in there VERY quickly, with the result that the pop-off valve
really starts banging away. No big deal right? Well, not so fast.
After I have done that, the stupid thing starts to LEAK! Usually this
happens on an aircraft that has not had the pop-off seal replaced in a
blue moon, and the abuse of having it really go nuts during a ground air
fill-up is the straw that broke the camels back. Another good
indication of the beginning of the end is a pop-off valve that hisses
and very slowly seats, which is about what you were describing.
There is difference somewhere in the air design between the YAK-50 and
52, and since I don't own a 52 I really would feel better asking Dennis
about this... But for example on the 50, the emergency air bottle is
filled by the compressor, and in the 52 it is only filled from the
external source. I also am not sure about the check valve differences
between the 50 and 52. It is POSSIBLE that on the 52 that the pop-off
valve is still in the loop even with the bottle valve closed. Not sure
of that... It's out of the loop in the 50... But I just don't know on
the 52.
Bottom line:
It might also be worth your time looking at the pop-off valve for slow
leaks. It also might cause slow pressurization with the engine running.
You can also take high pressure air and put it into the system just like
the compressor does from the snot valve fitting and check for leaks that
way too.
Mark Bitterlich
P.s. A good indication of whether you have a cracked line, or leaking
banjo fitting from the compressor to the snot valve is to follow this
simple test. Start engine, let the pressure come up just a tad, then
shut everything down and closed all valves. Wait about 15 minutes or so
and then open the snot valve. Do you get a good rush of air like you
usually do? If you do, then more than likely you have no leaks between
the compressor and the snot valve. If you open the snot valve and get
no air rushing out, or much less than you remember from the past, then
you probably do have a leak in that area.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill1200
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:28
Subject: Yak-List: new air problem
Replaced compressor 7 months ago and all has been well, until.....
Left the air valve open by mistake after a flight about 3 weeks ago.
Pressure had bled down to about 2, when I got back a few days later.
Thought no big deal, filled it up externally and went about my flight.
Then on the next flight prep noticed the pressure down to about 3,
checked the valve which was off. Started OK at 3, but noticed VERY slow
build up, barely got up to 4 during the flight. Checked the snot valve
yesterday and seems good (no leak). Checked pressure after several days
on the ground with no loss of pressure (valve off). Took the pressure
down to 2 by actuating flaps, ran at 50% sitting on the ground, took
about 10minutes to get to 3.
Another thing I've noticed, when I fill it externally it pops off about
6 and bleeds down to about 5.5. Never has the compressor got up to 5.5
either the old one or the new one. Don;t understand that.
So, question is where to start looking for MOST likely leak source??????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299729#299729
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: new air problem |
Thanks so much. That may very well be it. I've noticed after last couple of flights
when I open the snot valve I don't hear it from the cockpit which I usually
can.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299743#299743
Message 10
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| Subject: | YAK-52 gear light |
Reason says that if the uplock gets tripped and the Hobbs starts
ticking, then the switch is probably good. But then we come to the
light not working. Logic there says that the wire from the switch to
the light must be bad then.
But not so fast.
The Hobbs meter is a very VERY low current draw item. It is possible
that you could have a big voltage drop and the Hobbs meter could still
work.
There comes a time when test equipment is called for, and this is one of
them. Make it easy on you to start... :-) You should be able to get to
the hobbs meter connections fairly easily. Trip the up and lock switch
and put your DC VOLT METER on the hobbs and read the voltage. It should
be the same as battery voltage, I.E. about 24 volts. If this tests
good, you know your switch and wiring is good up to the splice point
that you just examined. We are then looking at something being wrong
from that splice point up to the bulb assembly. Dennis has copies of
those schematics, I do not have any handy sorry to say. Seems to me
something get a little complicated in there somewhere due to the test
and check function of those lights, where a relay is involved, etc. If
the voltage checks good at the splice point, we are going to need
accurate schematics. Dennis?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 17:00
Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-52 gear light
Yeah, I'm confused, too. I can hear the Hobbs ticking when the up-lock
is tripped, but the light doesn't light. The light DOES light when I
depress the test button (this is when the gear light switch and battery
master are on). I examined the wiring harness where the Hobbs is tapped
in, and it looks fine (transparent butt splice).
Any theories?
On Jun 1, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Now I am confused....
>
> My memory says that there are two switches. One for down and locked,
> the other for up and locked.
>
> Which one is your hobs meter hooked to, and which light exactly is not
> working?
>
> I was under the impression that you were wired into the UP and locked
> switch.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Wobschall
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:28 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-52 gear light
>
> I thought the switch was depressed with the gear extended. With the
> common (to all gear lights) circuit you described, it's either
> adjustment or switch, and since it seems to have clicked on extension,
> I'm guessing switch. I'll put a meter on it.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On May 31, 2010, at 7:56 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Have you adjusted the arm that engages the button on the micro
> switch as Mark suggested? What about putting an ohm meter on the
> micro
> switch to verify operation? There is no common fuse because if there
> was and the fuse was blown, all of the gear lights would be out.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Wobschall <mailto:eric@buffaloskyline.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-52 gear light
>
> The lamp for the gear up is fine (using test button),
> and the microswitch on the uplock does click when you trip it or
> press
> it. The down and locked light is not an issue (goes out when
> retracted.
> Are all gear lights on the same fuse?
>
>
> On May 30, 2010, at 8:37 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> 2W vs. 3W is no problem. I do not know of a US
> equivalent for the annunciator panel lamps.
>
> Push the microswitch button itself. It should
> click very distinctly when you depress the button. Does the green
> light
> go out when you retract the gear? Does the lamp come on when you
> press
> the press to lamp test button. Put an ohm meter on the microswitch if
> you suspect it to be bad. You will have to pierce the wires with the
> ohm meter leads. Getting to the terminal block is a whole lot more
> difficult.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Wobschall
> <mailto:eric@buffaloskyline.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 5:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-52 gear light
>
> Hey, Dennis / Doc... I notice that lamp
> I took out was 2W (the Osram is 3W)... assuming that's a trivial
> difference. Also, is that the same lamp as used in the annunciator
> panel? If not, do you know the lamp part number equivilent for those?
>
> Lastly, my Hobbs is on the left main
> gear switch, which is not working... thought it was the switch
> adjustment, but it seems to be clicking when the up lock is tripped.
> So,
> I was guessing it's the switch (didn't put a meter on it yet), but I
> also wonder if the Hobbs was drawing too much current and tripped a
> fuse. I don't suppose the three gear indicator circuits are fused
> separately?
>
> Thanks again. -Eric
>
>
> On May 30, 2010, at 8:41 AM, A. Dennis
> Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Osram OS3899. Here's an link
> for them.
>
http://www.frontierlighting.com/product.jsp?part 14&process=search&sho
> w=&
>
> ----- Original Message
> -----
> From: Eric Wobschall
> <mailto:eric@buffaloskyline.com>
> To:
> yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 29,
> 2010 9:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List:
> YAK-52 gear light
>
> --> Yak-List message
> posted by: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
>
> Does anyone have the
> part number for the YAK-52 gear light? I seem to
> remember it being an
> Osram item.
>
>
> -Eric nbsp;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
>
> =======================<; via the Web
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> bsp;
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Message 11
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Lawn darts are F-16s
--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <m
ark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich
@navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: new air problem
ALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
LawnDart (which is what we call F-18's in the Corps) mentioned the line
going from the compressor to the snot valve.- This line ... The one with
the "loop" in it .........fails a lot.- Which is why in some other
Russian designs (notably the Sukhoi's) they replace this with a steel
braided flex line, which is what I have done as well in my YAK-50.
Problem solved.- I think Doug Sapp might even be able to make these
things for you.- Not sure, but worth asking.- He also mentioned there
can be leaks in the Banjo Fitting at the compressor.- This is also right
on the money, and there is check valve in there that can leak as well.
What I have done is to reverse pressurize this line by removing it from
the snot valve, and then hooking it to a high pressure source and
applying 700 psi and listening for leaks.- The Banjo Fitting at the
compressor uses crush washers and if you don't put in new ones once you
have taken it apart and put it back together again, it might leak.- I've
gotten away with not using new ones a few times, but .... Luck of the
draw.
I will offer one more thing.- I have noticed that when I have had to use
the external filling port, that if I am not careful I can put in WAY too
much air in there VERY quickly, with the result that the pop-off valve
really starts banging away.- No big deal right?- Well, not so fast.
After I have done that, the stupid thing starts to LEAK!- Usually this
happens on an aircraft that has not had the pop-off seal replaced in a
blue moon, and the abuse of having it really go nuts during a ground air
fill-up is the straw that broke the camels back.- Another good
indication of the beginning of the end is a pop-off valve that hisses
and very slowly seats, which is about what you were describing.-
There is difference somewhere in the air design between the YAK-50 and
52, and since I don't own a 52 I really would feel better asking Dennis
about this... But for example on the 50, the emergency air bottle is
filled by the compressor, and in the 52 it is only filled from the
external source.- I also am not sure about the check valve differences
between the 50 and 52.- It is POSSIBLE that on the 52 that the pop-off
valve is still in the loop even with the bottle valve closed.- Not sure
of that... It's out of the loop in the 50... But I just don't know on
the 52.
Bottom line:
It might also be worth your time looking at the pop-off valve for slow
leaks.- It also might cause slow pressurization with the engine running.
You can also take high pressure air and put it into the system just like
the compressor does from the snot valve fitting and check for leaks that
way too.---
Mark Bitterlich
P.s.- A good indication of whether you have a cracked line, or leaking
banjo fitting from the compressor to the snot valve is to follow this
simple test.- Start engine, let the pressure come up just a tad, then
shut everything down and closed all valves.- Wait about 15 minutes or so
and then open the snot valve.- Do you get a good rush of air like you
usually do?- If you do, then more than likely you have no leaks between
the compressor and the snot valve.---If you open the snot valve and g
et
no air rushing out, or much less than you remember from the past, then
you probably do have a leak in that area.-
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill1200
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:28
Subject: Yak-List: new air problem
Replaced compressor 7 months ago and all has been well, until.....
Left the air valve open by mistake after a flight about 3 weeks ago.
Pressure had bled down to about 2, when I got back a few days later.
Thought no big deal, filled it up externally and went about my flight.
Then on the next flight prep noticed the pressure down to about 3,
checked the valve which was off. Started OK at 3, but noticed VERY slow
build up, barely got up to 4 during the flight. Checked the snot valve
yesterday and seems good (no leak). Checked pressure after several days
on the ground with no loss of pressure (valve off). Took the pressure
down to 2 by actuating flaps, ran at 50% sitting on the ground, took
about 10minutes to get to 3.
Another thing I've noticed, when I fill it externally it pops off about
6 and bleeds down to about 5.5. Never has the compressor got up to 5.5
either the old one or the new one. Don;t understand that.
So, question is where to start looking for MOST likely leak source??????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299729#299729
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: new air problem |
Lawn darts were sold under the trade name "Jarts", and featured a
weighted, sharpened business end until some newly disfigured whiner
sued. Don't see what airplanes have to do with this.
On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Paul Hamlin wrote:
> Lawn darts are F-16s
>
> --- On Wed, 6/2/10, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
> 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> >
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: new air problem
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 5:14 PM
>
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> LawnDart (which is what we call F-18's in the Corps) mentioned the
> line
> going from the compressor to the snot valve. This line ... The one
> with
> the "loop" in it .........fails a lot. Which is why in some other
> Russian designs (notably the Sukhoi's) they replace this with a steel
> braided flex line, which is what I have done as well in my YAK-50.
> Problem solved. I think Doug Sapp might even be able to make these
> things for you. Not sure, but worth asking. He also mentioned there
> can be leaks in the Banjo Fitting at the compressor. This is also
> right
> on the money, and there is check valve in there that can leak as well.
> What I have done is to reverse pressurize this line by removing it
> from
> the snot valve, and then hooking it to a high pressure source and
> applying 700 psi and listening for leaks. The Banjo Fitting at the
> compressor uses crush washers and if you don't put in new ones once
> you
> have taken it apart and put it back together again, it might leak.
> I've
> gotten away with not using new ones a few times, but .... Luck of the
> draw.
>
> I will offer one more thing. I have noticed that when I have had to
> use
> the external filling port, that if I am not careful I can put in WAY
> too
> much air in there VERY quickly, with the result that the pop-off valve
> really starts banging away. No big deal right? Well, not so fast.
> After I have done that, the stupid thing starts to LEAK! Usually this
> happens on an aircraft that has not had the pop-off seal replaced in a
> blue moon, and the abuse of having it really go nuts during a ground
> air
> fill-up is the straw that broke the camels back. Another good
> indication of the beginning of the end is a pop-off valve that hisses
> and very slowly seats, which is about what you were describing.
>
> There is difference somewhere in the air design between the YAK-50 and
> 52, and since I don't own a 52 I really would feel better asking
> Dennis
> about this... But for example on the 50, the emergency air bottle is
> filled by the compressor, and in the 52 it is only filled from the
> external source. I also am not sure about the check valve differences
> between the 50 and 52. It is POSSIBLE that on the 52 that the pop-off
> valve is still in the loop even with the bottle valve closed. Not
> sure
> of that... It's out of the loop in the 50... But I just don't know on
> the 52.
>
> Bottom line:
>
> It might also be worth your time looking at the pop-off valve for slow
> leaks. It also might cause slow pressurization with the engine
> running.
> You can also take high pressure air and put it into the system just
> like
> the compressor does from the snot valve fitting and check for leaks
> that
> way too.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. A good indication of whether you have a cracked line, or leaking
> banjo fitting from the compressor to the snot valve is to follow this
> simple test. Start engine, let the pressure come up just a tad, then
> shut everything down and closed all valves. Wait about 15 minutes
> or so
> and then open the snot valve. Do you get a good rush of air like you
> usually do? If you do, then more than likely you have no leaks
> between
> the compressor and the snot valve. If you open the snot valve and
> get
> no air rushing out, or much less than you remember from the past, then
> you probably do have a leak in that area.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill1200
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: new air problem
>
>
> Replaced compressor 7 months ago and all has been well, until.....
> Left the air valve open by mistake after a flight about 3 weeks ago.
> Pressure had bled down to about 2, when I got back a few days later.
> Thought no big deal, filled it up externally and went about my flight.
> Then on the next flight prep noticed the pressure down to about 3,
> checked the valve which was off. Started OK at 3, but noticed VERY
> slow
> build up, barely got up to 4 during the flight. Checked the snot valve
> yesterday and seems good (no leak). Checked pressure after several
> days
> on the ground with no loss of pressure (valve off). Took the pressure
> down to 2 by actuating flaps, ran at 50% sitting on the ground, took
> about 10minutes to get to 3.
> Another thing I've noticed, when I fill it externally it pops off
> about
> 6 and bleeds down to about 5.5. Never has the compressor got up to 5.5
> either the old one or the new one. Don;t understand that.
> So, question is where to start looking for MOST likely leak
> source??????
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299729#299ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> " target=_blank>http://www.matrbsp;--> http://= - List
> Contributionsp; &bsp;-->
>
>
Message 13
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|
That would be true. Now do you know what AF Base was associated with that
terminology? Hint it was the first operation base for the F-16 A as they
came into the inventory.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hamlin
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: new air problem
Lawn darts are F-16s
--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: new air problem
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >
LawnDart (which is what we call F-18's in the Corps) mentioned the line
going from the compressor to the snot valve. This line ... The one with
the "loop" in it .........fails a lot. Which is why in some other
Russian designs (notably the Sukhoi's) they replace this with a steel
braided flex line, which is what I have done as well in my YAK-50.
Problem solved. I think Doug Sapp might even be able to make these
things for you. Not sure, but worth asking. He also mentioned there
can be leaks in the Banjo Fitting at the compressor. This is also right
on the money, and there is check valve in there that can leak as well.
What I have done is to reverse pressurize this line by removing it from
the snot valve, and then hooking it to a high pressure source and
applying 700 psi and listening for leaks. The Banjo Fitting at the
compressor uses crush washers and if you don't put in new ones once you
have taken it apart and put it back together again, it might leak. I've
gotten away with not using new ones a few times, but .... Luck of the
draw.
I will offer one more thing. I have noticed that when I have had to use
the external filling port, that if I am not careful I can put in WAY too
much air in there VERY quickly, with the result that the pop-off valve
really starts banging away. No big deal right? Well, not so fast.
After I have done that, the stupid thing starts to LEAK! Usually this
happens on an aircraft that has not had the pop-off seal replaced in a
blue moon, and the abuse of having it really go nuts during a ground air
fill-up is the straw that broke the camels back. Another good
indication of the beginning of the end is a pop-off valve that hisses
and very slowly seats, which is about what you were describing.
There is difference somewhere in the air design between the YAK-50 and
52, and since I don't own a 52 I really would feel better asking Dennis
about this... But for example on the 50, the emergency air bottle is
filled by the compressor, and in the 52 it is only filled from the
external source. I also am not sure about the check valve differences
between the 50 and 52. It is POSSIBLE that on the 52 that the pop-off
valve is still in the loop even with the bottle valve closed. Not sure
of that... It's out of the loop in the 50... But I just don't know on
the 52.
Bottom line:
It might also be worth your time looking at the pop-off valve for slow
leaks. It also might cause slow pressurization with the engine running.
You can also take high pressure air and put it into the system just like
the compressor does from the snot valve fitting and check for leaks that
way too.
Mark Bitterlich
P.s. A good indication of whether you have a cracked line, or leaking
banjo fitting from the compressor to the snot valve is to follow this
simple test. Start engine, let the pressure come up just a tad, then
shut everything down and closed all valves. Wait about 15 minutes or so
and then open the snot valve. Do you get a good rush of air like you
usually do? If you do, then more than likely you have no leaks between
the compressor and the snot valve. If you open the snot valve and get
no air rushing out, or much less than you remember from the past, then
you probably do have a leak in that area.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-yak-list-server@matronic
s.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-yak-list-server@matronic
s.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill1200
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:28
<http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Yak-List: new air problem
<http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billdykes52@gmail.com> >
Replaced compressor 7 months ago and all has been well, until.....
Left the air valve open by mistake after a flight about 3 weeks ago.
Pressure had bled down to about 2, when I got back a few days later.
Thought no big deal, filled it up externally and went about my flight.
Then on the next flight prep noticed the pressure down to about 3,
checked the valve which was off. Started OK at 3, but noticed VERY slow
build up, barely got up to 4 during the flight. Checked the snot valve
yesterday and seems good (no leak). Checked pressure after several days
on the ground with no loss of pressure (valve off). Took the pressure
down to 2 by actuating flaps, ran at 50% sitting on the ground, took
about 10minutes to get to 3.
Another thing I've noticed, when I fill it externally it pops off about
6 and bleeds down to about 5.5. Never has the compressor got up to 5.5
either the old one or the new one. Don;t understand that.
So, question is where to start looking for MOST likely leak source??????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299729#299ttp://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Yak-List
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299729#299729> "
target=_blank>http://www.matrbsp;--> http://= <http://forums.matronics.com/>
- List Contributionsp; &bsp;-->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Yak 52 Starter Sequence? |
The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if anyone kno
ws the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider at=2C
or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual are
a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
Bill
From: gill.g@gpimail.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
If you have access to a Housai manual=2C it provides better instructions as
it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset m
ine twice after engine disassembly and it=92s not a big deal.
Gill
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
Sent: Thursday=2C April 08=2C 2010 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
Let me run my mouth one last time. First=2C adjusting this thing is a real
pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it=2C
it requires you to get the engine set up perfectly=2C and then insert the t
hing back in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twi
ce=2C and it was a real ass kicker.
Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that you know
this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start trying
to re-adjust it. Once you remove it=2C you have no choice but to finish th
e job.
I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air system
will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
Yes=2C it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past=2C and
just could never get it right again=2C and this is what you have wrong now.
(I.E. A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your
problem=2C but as a Tech Rep=2C my mind always considers the alternatives a
nd you can never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good".
That said=2C if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low=2C it will do the exact
same thing you are now reporting.
That said=2C if I was there=2C I would take my nitrogen bottle with a good
regulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air distri
butor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when I turned
it on. If the engine does the exact same thing=2C then you are sure that
the distributor is the problem. However=2C if the engine spins right aroun
d perfectly=2C then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT
THE AIR DISTRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
Consider this advice carefully.
Best regards=2C
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Thu=2C 4/8/10=2C Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
Mark
Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint Manual=2C
task card 204. Hope my guy
can do it.
Thanks
Bill
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Thu=2C 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
t=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
>
> MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
>
> This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
>
> There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth that
> has to be JUST right.
>
> I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly=2C I believe he has
> the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in the
> maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web site.
> His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
>
> It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees=2C SAD
> TO SAY! Without the instructions=2C I have seen people mess with this
> thing for days. DAYS!
>
> Just FYI=2C the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to make
> the piston move. When it is perfectly set up=2C it not only puts air into
> one cylinder to push the piston down=2C it also sends air to the lower
> cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any oil that is in
> there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed PERFECTLY to the
> engine=2C just like the ignition distributor on your car=2C or the mag on
> your airplane. Please excuse the language on the net=2C but it is a real
> SOB to adjust.
>
> I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you=2C or have the
m
> memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about messing with it
> until you have the instructions fully in hand and understand them
> perfectly.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Thursday=2C April 08=2C 2010 6:30 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52 that
> has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was installed.
> It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into the
> cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start=2C and then air appears to blo
w
> straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns backwards.
> Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My mechanic
> and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem and found a fix.
> Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the spider
> that was overlooked by the original mechanics
>
> Taa
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Looking for a hot date? View photos of singles in your area!
>======================
&g===========
>
>
>
/direct/01/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Browse profiles for FREE! =
nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listet=_b
lank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.m
atronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
New=2C Used=2C Demo=2C Dealer or Private? Find it at CarPoint.com.au
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: new air problem |
Luke?
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Roger Kemp M.D. [mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com]
+Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2010 08:28 PM
+To: yak-list@matronics.com
+Subject: RE: Yak-List: new air problem
+
+That would be true. Now do you know what AF Base was associated with that
+terminology? Hint it was the first operation base for the F-16 A as they
+came into the inventory.
+
+Doc
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