Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:13 AM - Yak-18T spinner (Anne and Buddy Moman)
2. 09:53 AM - Re: Fw: Oil and Radials (Walter Lannon)
3. 11:03 AM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Ray, James)
4. 12:12 PM - oil (Jerry Painter)
5. 12:15 PM - Re: Fw: Oil and Radials (Eric Wobschall)
6. 12:25 PM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Roger Baker)
7. 12:28 PM - Re: Oil and Radials (racemech11)
8. 12:47 PM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Didier BLOUZARD)
9. 01:19 PM - Re: Ground Zero (Didier Blouzard)
10. 02:07 PM - Re: Ground Zero (SC)
11. 04:35 PM - Yak 18T (SC)
12. 06:20 PM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Roger Kemp M.D.)
13. 06:54 PM - Re: oil (Walter Lannon)
14. 07:36 PM - Re: Fw: Oil and Radials (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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Thanks to all that had input on the Yak 18T spinner search. I have
one on the way from Kregg.
Buddy
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Oil and Radials |
Eric;
Phillips 25W60 is indeed an Ashless Dispersant oil the same as Aeroshell W80, W100
& W120. Like those it also has a pure mineral oil base.
It's base oil is of a lower viscosity (SAE 25) so, in addition to the AD additives,
it also has additives to reduce the viscosity change with increasing temperature.
I have used it in the R 1340 ever since it came on the market with apparently excellent
results.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Wobschall
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
This is old hat.
It has long been known that the flat engine multi-grade oil has some additive
for anti-corrosion (makes it cling to cam followers and the like for longer periods
of disuse) that gums up certain things in M-14P engines (I think the compressor
pop-off valve has been mentioned). Certainly, you don't want to use these
oils, and that's probably what Precision is cautioning against.
This does not apply to the Phillips 25-60 oil that was designed specifically
for radial engines. It is mineral-based (not an AD oil) and can be used for break-in.
It doesn't have the anti-corrosion additive that causes trouble. Aeroshell
W80, W100, and W120 (these are AD-type with the red label) also seem to be
fine. In Aeroshell, the straight mineral oil (80, 100, 120 with the blue label
) has to be used for break-in. The radial engine shops I know all like the
25-60 (Radial engines OKC, Tulsa, M-14P, Inc., etc).
I have noticed that some people with smaller Pratts (like the R-1340) use mineral
all of the time, especially if they're nursing an old engine. Certainly,
the Phillips 25-60 is very popular (the most common for old radials that I've
seen).
Some hard-core Russians seem to like to stick with the Aeroshell. Not that they
had that stuff in Russia back in the day. I have heard that the main issue
with them is that the flop tube in the oil tank has a seal that is formed by a
coating of oil, and the 25-60 doesn't maintain that seal when the flop tube joint
becomes worn. This only becomes a problem when flying torturous up-lines
in unlimited akro (Sukhoi), and in high ambient temps, where oil pressure can
drop off. Even this is debatable, and it certainly doesn't apply to 99% of us.
My disappointment with the Precision letter was their unfamiliarity with adverbs
when choosing a slogan.
On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Walter Lannon wrote:
Doc;
Phillips X/C 25W60 is not semi-synthetic. The only aviation semi-synthetic
that I know of is Aeroshell 15W50.
The Precision Engines letter was excellent in that it explained in detail the
reason for the caution notes in the P&W SB.
I totally agree that 15W50 and 20W50 should not be used in radial engines (and
I would include the smaller ones). 25W60 on the other hand is probably OK
for the small radials. It is nominally equivalent to 120 at higher temperatures
(60 SAE = 120 SUS) though this is probably degraded by the ashless dispersant
and viscosity modifier additives. Maybe the end result puts it closer to 100
SUS ? Don't know for sure but the P&W SB does recommend the use of a higher
number with additives.
The only disappointment in the Precision letter was no reference to the performance
of 25W60.
Walt
-- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp M.D.
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:51 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
Why would 100 W not be appropriate for the M-14? I currently am running a
multi-grade though..Phillips 25 W 60 semi-synthetic. Sounds like I need to back
to AeroShell 100 W.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:47 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
G'Day All,
I received this article the other day. A "good oil" article.
Some of you have no doubt read this, but I thought that it is well worth
forwarding.
Cheers,
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ivor Paech
To: Chris Wise
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:13 AM
Subject: Fw: Oil and Radials
Cop this and pass it on....!!
And thanks for Friday night. You are getting the hang of it.
Toof
----- Original Message -----
From: Tracey McFarlane
To: wayne@tjhagencies.com.au ; tmo34003@bigpond.net.au ; 'Gary Bradley &
Wendy Wills'
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:09 AM
Subject: Oil and Radials
No so appropriate for the little ones, but interesting anyway.
http://www.precisionengines.com/pdf/oilBulletin.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List |
Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10
What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner on a Ya
k52?
Jim
James L. Ray, PE
Teledyne Brown Engineering
Systems Engineering
300 Sparkman Dr. MS112
Huntsville, AL 35805
Phone 256-726-3749
Fax 256-726-5126
Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Oil and Radials |
OK, thanks for clarifying the mineral base / but still AD thing. I
know that usually, AD oils are a no-no for break-in, but this one is
supposed to be fine for that, too. Not surprised to hear you like it.
I use it on my M-14P as well, with no complaints. Once again, I think
the Precision article is referring to the multi-grade oils for flat
engines.
On Jun 22, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Walter Lannon wrote:
> Eric;
>
> Phillips 25W60 is indeed an Ashless Dispersant oil the same as
> Aeroshell W80, W100 & W120. Like those it also has a pure mineral
> oil base.
> It's base oil is of a lower viscosity (SAE 25) so, in addition to
> the AD additives, it also has additives to reduce the viscosity
> change with increasing temperature.
>
> I have used it in the R 1340 ever since it came on the market with
> apparently excellent results.
>
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Wobschall
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
>
> This is old hat.
>
> It has long been known that the flat engine multi-grade oil has some
> additive for anti-corrosion (makes it cling to cam followers and the
> like for longer periods of disuse) that gums up certain things in
> M-14P engines (I think the compressor pop-off valve has been
> mentioned). Certainly, you don't want to use these oils, and that's
> probably what Precision is cautioning against.
>
> This does not apply to the Phillips 25-60 oil that was designed
> specifically for radial engines. It is mineral-based (not an AD oil)
> and can be used for break-in. It doesn't have the anti-corrosion
> additive that causes trouble. Aeroshell W80, W100, and W120 (these
> are AD-type with the red label) also seem to be fine. In Aeroshell,
> the straight mineral oil (80, 100, 120 with the blue label ) has to
> be used for break-in. The radial engine shops I know all like the
> 25-60 (Radial engines OKC, Tulsa, M-14P, Inc., etc).
>
> I have noticed that some people with smaller Pratts (like the
> R-1340) use mineral all of the time, especially if they're nursing
> an old engine. Certainly, the Phillips 25-60 is very popular (the
> most common for old radials that I've seen).
>
> Some hard-core Russians seem to like to stick with the Aeroshell.
> Not that they had that stuff in Russia back in the day. I have heard
> that the main issue with them is that the flop tube in the oil tank
> has a seal that is formed by a coating of oil, and the 25-60 doesn't
> maintain that seal when the flop tube joint becomes worn. This only
> becomes a problem when flying torturous up-lines in unlimited akro
> (Sukhoi), and in high ambient temps, where oil pressure can drop
> off. Even this is debatable, and it certainly doesn't apply to 99%
> of us.
>
> My disappointment with the Precision letter was their unfamiliarity
> with adverbs when choosing a slogan.
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Walter Lannon wrote:
>
>> Doc;
>> Phillips X/C 25W60 is not semi-synthetic. The only aviation semi-
>> synthetic that I know of is Aeroshell 15W50.
>>
>> The Precision Engines letter was excellent in that it explained in
>> detail the reason for the caution notes in the P&W SB.
>> I totally agree that 15W50 and 20W50 should not be used in radial
>> engines (and I would include the smaller ones). 25W60 on the other
>> hand is probably OK for the small radials. It is nominally
>> equivalent to 120 at higher temperatures (60 SAE = 120 SUS) though
>> this is probably degraded by the ashless dispersant and viscosity
>> modifier additives. Maybe the end result puts it closer to 100
>> SUS ? Don't know for sure but the P&W SB does recommend the use of
>> a higher number with additives.
>>
>> The only disappointment in the Precision letter was no reference to
>> the performance of 25W60.
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> -- Original Message -----
>> From: Roger Kemp M.D.
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:51 AM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
>>
>> Why would 100 W not be appropriate for the M-14? I currently am
>> running a multi-grade though..Phillips 25 W 60 semi-synthetic.
>> Sounds like I need to back to AeroShell 100 W.
>> Doc
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> ] On Behalf Of Chris Wise
>> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:47 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
>> G'Day All,
>> I received this article the other day. A "good oil" article.
>> Some of you have no doubt read this, but I thought that it is well
>> worth forwarding.
>> Cheers,
>> Chris.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ivor Paech
>> To: Chris Wise
>> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:13 AM
>> Subject: Fw: Oil and Radials
>> Cop this and pass it on....!!
>> And thanks for Friday night. You are getting the hang of it.
>> Toof
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tracey McFarlane
>> To: wayne@tjhagencies.com.au ; tmo34003@bigpond.net.au ; 'Gary
>> Bradley & Wendy Wills'
>> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:09 AM
>> Subject: Oil and Radials
>> No so appropriate for the little ones, but interesting anyway.
>> http://www.precisionengines.com/pdf/oilBulletin.pdf
>> www.avg.com
>> 18:35:00
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List |
Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10
Performance differences?? There are supposed to be performance
differences?
On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Ray, James wrote:
> What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner on
a Yak52?
>
> Jim
>
> James L. Ray, PE
> Teledyne Brown Engineering
> Systems Engineering
> 300 Sparkman Dr. MS112
> Huntsville, AL 35805
> Phone 256-726-3749
> Fax 256-726-5126
> Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and Radials |
I've been racing at reno now for about 13 years with the R-1340. We switched to
Phillips 25 W 60 after about the third year and have had nothing but good from
it. Our engines break-in in about a quarter of the time we used to see running
other oil and I don't have to worry about changing a cylinder out and changing
back to a break in oil.
This is my second Yak, both 55's and have run both on the 25W60. I don't, currently
have a clean kit, and seem to notice a little more oil in the drain pan than
some other M-14 powered equipment that I have been around.
I know from operating the R-1340, it is a great oil and can stand a lot of punishment.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302063#302063
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List |
Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10
0.001 knot faster and a lot of vibrations if baddly fitted....just
joking!!!
Not necessary to tell what the russian think about the spinner.
But OK it makes the plane look nicer.
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 22 juin 2010 =C3- 19:59, "Ray, James" <James.Ray@tbe.com> a =C3=A9cri
t :
> What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner
> on a Yak52?
>
>
> Jim
>
> James L. Ray, PE
> Teledyne Brown Engineering
> Systems Engineering
> 300 Sparkman Dr. MS112
> Huntsville, AL 35805
> Phone 256-726-3749
> Fax 256-726-5126
> Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com
>
>
Message 9
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where can I answer you ????
didier.blouzard@wanadoo.fr
2010/6/22 Frank <frank@orionite.com>
>
> Didier
> I have responded to your post.
>
> Only problem is I would get banned from the YAK-LIST if I post it.
>
> Therefore, I have provided a link for you to read what is most assuredly
> controversial but OHHHHHHH so true!
>
> Here's the link
>
> http://www.orionite.com/hate_muslims.txt
>
>
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard@gmail.com
0624243672
Message 10
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Didier I respectfully suggest that you do not open this can of worms on the
Yak digest. There are extremes of views on this side of the Pond that would
make the French Right Wing Party look like pussy cats and here they carry
guns !
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Ground Zero
where can I answer you ????
didier.blouzard@wanadoo.fr
2010/6/22 Frank <frank@orionite.com>
Didier
I have responded to your post.
Only problem is I would get banned from the YAK-LIST if I post it.
Therefore, I have provided a link for you to read what is most assuredly
controversial but OHHHHHHH so true!
Here's the link
http://www.orionite.com/hate_muslims.txt
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0624243672
Message 11
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After standing almost abandoned for 9 years and after 18 months rebuild our
Yak 18T took to the skies for first time today and behaved almost perfectly.
One or two small niggles which we would appreciate comments on by the more
experienced members of this forum:
Tacho % Power - needle fluctuates each side of ? correct figure
With equal fuel added left hand tank gauge shows much less than RH tank
What is correct nomination of the manifold pressure gauge - is it boost
please ?
She is soon going to new owner in Washington State as we return to UK.
Terry Beezhold is looking for someone to fly with hiom from Franklin,
Virginia (VA) to Washington fairly soon.
All contact to Terry at - Terry & Joni Beezhold [tjbeezhold@comcast.net]
please. Quite a trip !
Thanks everybody.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List |
Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10
Appears to have more uniform cooling from what I have seen.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs -
06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10
Performance differences?? There are supposed to be performance differences?
On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Ray, James wrote:
What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner on a
Yak52?
Jim
James L. Ray, PE
Teledyne Brown Engineering
Systems Engineering
300 Sparkman Dr. MS112
Huntsville, AL 35805
Phone 256-726-3749
Fax 256-726-5126
Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Jerry;
I just get a blank notepad. Suspect this has something to do with my less
than stellar computer skills. Any advice??
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:10 PM
Subject: Yak-List: oil
Message 14
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| Subject: | Fw: Oil and Radials |
Walt my mistake. The Phillips site says it is equivalent to 120 ? Not much
info on that site.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
Doc;
Phillips X/C 25W60 is not semi-synthetic. The only aviation semi-synthetic
that I know of is Aeroshell 15W50.
The Precision Engines letter was excellent in that it explained in detail
the reason for the caution notes in the P&W SB.
I totally agree that 15W50 and 20W50 should not be used in radial engines
(and I would include the smaller ones). 25W60 on the other hand is probably
OK for the small radials. It is nominally equivalent to 120 at higher
temperatures (60 SAE = 120 SUS) though this is probably degraded by the
ashless dispersant and viscosity modifier additives. Maybe the end result
puts it closer to 100 SUS ? Don't know for sure but the P&W SB does
recommend the use of a higher number with additives.
The only disappointment in the Precision letter was no reference to the
performance of 25W60.
Walt
-- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:51 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
Why would 100 W not be appropriate for the M-14? I currently am running a
multi-grade though..Phillips 25 W 60 semi-synthetic. Sounds like I need to
back to AeroShell 100 W.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:47 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials
G'Day All,
I received this article the other day. A "good oil" article.
Some of you have no doubt read this, but I thought that it is well worth
forwarding.
Cheers,
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ivor <mailto:tmo34003@bigpond.net.au> Paech
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:13 AM
Subject: Fw: Oil and Radials
Cop this and pass it on....!!
And thanks for Friday night. You are getting the hang of it.
Toof
----- Original Message -----
From: Tracey McFarlane <mailto:tracey.mcfarlane@mcfarlane.net.au>
<mailto:gary_wendy@internode.on.net> & Wendy Wills'
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:09 AM
Subject: Oil and Radials
No so appropriate for the little ones, but interesting anyway.
http://www.precisionengines.com/pdf/oilBulletin.pdf
_____
www.avg.com
18:35:00
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