---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/22/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:13 AM - Yak-18T spinner (Anne and Buddy Moman) 2. 09:53 AM - Re: Fw: Oil and Radials (Walter Lannon) 3. 11:03 AM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Ray, James) 4. 12:12 PM - oil (Jerry Painter) 5. 12:15 PM - Re: Fw: Oil and Radials (Eric Wobschall) 6. 12:25 PM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Roger Baker) 7. 12:28 PM - Re: Oil and Radials (racemech11) 8. 12:47 PM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Didier BLOUZARD) 9. 01:19 PM - Re: Ground Zero (Didier Blouzard) 10. 02:07 PM - Re: Ground Zero (SC) 11. 04:35 PM - Yak 18T (SC) 12. 06:20 PM - Re: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 (Roger Kemp M.D.) 13. 06:54 PM - Re: oil (Walter Lannon) 14. 07:36 PM - Re: Fw: Oil and Radials (Roger Kemp M.D.) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:10 AM PST US From: Anne and Buddy Moman Subject: Yak-List: Yak-18T spinner Thanks to all that had input on the Yak 18T spinner search. I have one on the way from Kregg. Buddy ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:35 AM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials Eric; Phillips 25W60 is indeed an Ashless Dispersant oil the same as Aeroshell W80, W100 & W120. Like those it also has a pure mineral oil base. It's base oil is of a lower viscosity (SAE 25) so, in addition to the AD additives, it also has additives to reduce the viscosity change with increasing temperature. I have used it in the R 1340 ever since it came on the market with apparently excellent results. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Wobschall To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials This is old hat. It has long been known that the flat engine multi-grade oil has some additive for anti-corrosion (makes it cling to cam followers and the like for longer periods of disuse) that gums up certain things in M-14P engines (I think the compressor pop-off valve has been mentioned). Certainly, you don't want to use these oils, and that's probably what Precision is cautioning against. This does not apply to the Phillips 25-60 oil that was designed specifically for radial engines. It is mineral-based (not an AD oil) and can be used for break-in. It doesn't have the anti-corrosion additive that causes trouble. Aeroshell W80, W100, and W120 (these are AD-type with the red label) also seem to be fine. In Aeroshell, the straight mineral oil (80, 100, 120 with the blue label ) has to be used for break-in. The radial engine shops I know all like the 25-60 (Radial engines OKC, Tulsa, M-14P, Inc., etc). I have noticed that some people with smaller Pratts (like the R-1340) use mineral all of the time, especially if they're nursing an old engine. Certainly, the Phillips 25-60 is very popular (the most common for old radials that I've seen). Some hard-core Russians seem to like to stick with the Aeroshell. Not that they had that stuff in Russia back in the day. I have heard that the main issue with them is that the flop tube in the oil tank has a seal that is formed by a coating of oil, and the 25-60 doesn't maintain that seal when the flop tube joint becomes worn. This only becomes a problem when flying torturous up-lines in unlimited akro (Sukhoi), and in high ambient temps, where oil pressure can drop off. Even this is debatable, and it certainly doesn't apply to 99% of us. My disappointment with the Precision letter was their unfamiliarity with adverbs when choosing a slogan. On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Walter Lannon wrote: Doc; Phillips X/C 25W60 is not semi-synthetic. The only aviation semi-synthetic that I know of is Aeroshell 15W50. The Precision Engines letter was excellent in that it explained in detail the reason for the caution notes in the P&W SB. I totally agree that 15W50 and 20W50 should not be used in radial engines (and I would include the smaller ones). 25W60 on the other hand is probably OK for the small radials. It is nominally equivalent to 120 at higher temperatures (60 SAE = 120 SUS) though this is probably degraded by the ashless dispersant and viscosity modifier additives. Maybe the end result puts it closer to 100 SUS ? Don't know for sure but the P&W SB does recommend the use of a higher number with additives. The only disappointment in the Precision letter was no reference to the performance of 25W60. Walt -- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp M.D. To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:51 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials Why would 100 W not be appropriate for the M-14? I currently am running a multi-grade though..Phillips 25 W 60 semi-synthetic. Sounds like I need to back to AeroShell 100 W. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:47 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials G'Day All, I received this article the other day. A "good oil" article. Some of you have no doubt read this, but I thought that it is well worth forwarding. Cheers, Chris. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ivor Paech To: Chris Wise Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:13 AM Subject: Fw: Oil and Radials Cop this and pass it on....!! And thanks for Friday night. You are getting the hang of it. Toof ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracey McFarlane To: wayne@tjhagencies.com.au ; tmo34003@bigpond.net.au ; 'Gary Bradley & Wendy Wills' Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: Oil and Radials No so appropriate for the little ones, but interesting anyway. http://www.precisionengines.com/pdf/oilBulletin.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.avg.com 18:35:00 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:39 AM PST US From: "Ray, James" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner on a Ya k52? Jim James L. Ray, PE Teledyne Brown Engineering Systems Engineering 300 Sparkman Dr. MS112 Huntsville, AL 35805 Phone 256-726-3749 Fax 256-726-5126 Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:51 PM PST US From: "Jerry Painter" Subject: Yak-List: oil ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:57 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials OK, thanks for clarifying the mineral base / but still AD thing. I know that usually, AD oils are a no-no for break-in, but this one is supposed to be fine for that, too. Not surprised to hear you like it. I use it on my M-14P as well, with no complaints. Once again, I think the Precision article is referring to the multi-grade oils for flat engines. On Jun 22, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Walter Lannon wrote: > Eric; > > Phillips 25W60 is indeed an Ashless Dispersant oil the same as > Aeroshell W80, W100 & W120. Like those it also has a pure mineral > oil base. > It's base oil is of a lower viscosity (SAE 25) so, in addition to > the AD additives, it also has additives to reduce the viscosity > change with increasing temperature. > > I have used it in the R 1340 ever since it came on the market with > apparently excellent results. > > Walt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eric Wobschall > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials > > This is old hat. > > It has long been known that the flat engine multi-grade oil has some > additive for anti-corrosion (makes it cling to cam followers and the > like for longer periods of disuse) that gums up certain things in > M-14P engines (I think the compressor pop-off valve has been > mentioned). Certainly, you don't want to use these oils, and that's > probably what Precision is cautioning against. > > This does not apply to the Phillips 25-60 oil that was designed > specifically for radial engines. It is mineral-based (not an AD oil) > and can be used for break-in. It doesn't have the anti-corrosion > additive that causes trouble. Aeroshell W80, W100, and W120 (these > are AD-type with the red label) also seem to be fine. In Aeroshell, > the straight mineral oil (80, 100, 120 with the blue label ) has to > be used for break-in. The radial engine shops I know all like the > 25-60 (Radial engines OKC, Tulsa, M-14P, Inc., etc). > > I have noticed that some people with smaller Pratts (like the > R-1340) use mineral all of the time, especially if they're nursing > an old engine. Certainly, the Phillips 25-60 is very popular (the > most common for old radials that I've seen). > > Some hard-core Russians seem to like to stick with the Aeroshell. > Not that they had that stuff in Russia back in the day. I have heard > that the main issue with them is that the flop tube in the oil tank > has a seal that is formed by a coating of oil, and the 25-60 doesn't > maintain that seal when the flop tube joint becomes worn. This only > becomes a problem when flying torturous up-lines in unlimited akro > (Sukhoi), and in high ambient temps, where oil pressure can drop > off. Even this is debatable, and it certainly doesn't apply to 99% > of us. > > My disappointment with the Precision letter was their unfamiliarity > with adverbs when choosing a slogan. > > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Walter Lannon wrote: > >> Doc; >> Phillips X/C 25W60 is not semi-synthetic. The only aviation semi- >> synthetic that I know of is Aeroshell 15W50. >> >> The Precision Engines letter was excellent in that it explained in >> detail the reason for the caution notes in the P&W SB. >> I totally agree that 15W50 and 20W50 should not be used in radial >> engines (and I would include the smaller ones). 25W60 on the other >> hand is probably OK for the small radials. It is nominally >> equivalent to 120 at higher temperatures (60 SAE = 120 SUS) though >> this is probably degraded by the ashless dispersant and viscosity >> modifier additives. Maybe the end result puts it closer to 100 >> SUS ? Don't know for sure but the P&W SB does recommend the use of >> a higher number with additives. >> >> The only disappointment in the Precision letter was no reference to >> the performance of 25W60. >> >> Walt >> >> -- Original Message ----- >> From: Roger Kemp M.D. >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:51 AM >> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials >> >> Why would 100 W not be appropriate for the M-14? I currently am >> running a multi-grade though..Phillips 25 W 60 semi-synthetic. >> Sounds like I need to back to AeroShell 100 W. >> Doc >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >> ] On Behalf Of Chris Wise >> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:47 PM >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials >> G'Day All, >> I received this article the other day. A "good oil" article. >> Some of you have no doubt read this, but I thought that it is well >> worth forwarding. >> Cheers, >> Chris. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ivor Paech >> To: Chris Wise >> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:13 AM >> Subject: Fw: Oil and Radials >> Cop this and pass it on....!! >> And thanks for Friday night. You are getting the hang of it. >> Toof >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tracey McFarlane >> To: wayne@tjhagencies.com.au ; tmo34003@bigpond.net.au ; 'Gary >> Bradley & Wendy Wills' >> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: Oil and Radials >> No so appropriate for the little ones, but interesting anyway. >> http://www.precisionengines.com/pdf/oilBulletin.pdf >> www.avg.com >> 18:35:00 >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:00 PM PST US From: Roger Baker Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 Performance differences?? There are supposed to be performance differences? On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Ray, James wrote: > What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner on a Yak52? > > Jim > > James L. Ray, PE > Teledyne Brown Engineering > Systems Engineering > 300 Sparkman Dr. MS112 > Huntsville, AL 35805 > Phone 256-726-3749 > Fax 256-726-5126 > Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:08 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil and Radials From: "racemech11" I've been racing at reno now for about 13 years with the R-1340. We switched to Phillips 25 W 60 after about the third year and have had nothing but good from it. Our engines break-in in about a quarter of the time we used to see running other oil and I don't have to worry about changing a cylinder out and changing back to a break in oil. This is my second Yak, both 55's and have run both on the 25W60. I don't, currently have a clean kit, and seem to notice a little more oil in the drain pan than some other M-14 powered equipment that I have been around. I know from operating the R-1340, it is a great oil and can stand a lot of punishment. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302063#302063 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:20 PM PST US From: Didier BLOUZARD Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 0.001 knot faster and a lot of vibrations if baddly fitted....just joking!!! Not necessary to tell what the russian think about the spinner. But OK it makes the plane look nicer. Didier Blouzard +33 6 2424 3672 Le 22 juin 2010 =C3- 19:59, "Ray, James" a =C3=A9cri t : > What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner > on a Yak52? > > > Jim > > James L. Ray, PE > Teledyne Brown Engineering > Systems Engineering > 300 Sparkman Dr. MS112 > Huntsville, AL 35805 > Phone 256-726-3749 > Fax 256-726-5126 > Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:52 PM PST US From: Didier Blouzard Subject: Re: Yak-List: Ground Zero where can I answer you ???? didier.blouzard@wanadoo.fr 2010/6/22 Frank > > Didier > I have responded to your post. > > Only problem is I would get banned from the YAK-LIST if I post it. > > Therefore, I have provided a link for you to read what is most assuredly > controversial but OHHHHHHH so true! > > Here's the link > > http://www.orionite.com/hate_muslims.txt > > -- Didier BLOUZARD didier.blouzard@gmail.com 0624243672 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:45 PM PST US From: "SC" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Ground Zero Didier I respectfully suggest that you do not open this can of worms on the Yak digest. There are extremes of views on this side of the Pond that would make the French Right Wing Party look like pussy cats and here they carry guns ! _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Ground Zero where can I answer you ???? didier.blouzard@wanadoo.fr 2010/6/22 Frank Didier I have responded to your post. Only problem is I would get banned from the YAK-LIST if I post it. Therefore, I have provided a link for you to read what is most assuredly controversial but OHHHHHHH so true! Here's the link http://www.orionite.com/hate_muslims.txt ========== rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Didier BLOUZARD didier.blouzard@gmail.com 0624243672 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:21 PM PST US From: "SC" Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18T After standing almost abandoned for 9 years and after 18 months rebuild our Yak 18T took to the skies for first time today and behaved almost perfectly. One or two small niggles which we would appreciate comments on by the more experienced members of this forum: Tacho % Power - needle fluctuates each side of ? correct figure With equal fuel added left hand tank gauge shows much less than RH tank What is correct nomination of the manifold pressure gauge - is it boost please ? She is soon going to new owner in Washington State as we return to UK. Terry Beezhold is looking for someone to fly with hiom from Franklin, Virginia (VA) to Washington fairly soon. All contact to Terry at - Terry & Joni Beezhold [tjbeezhold@comcast.net] please. Quite a trip ! Thanks everybody. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:01 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 Appears to have more uniform cooling from what I have seen. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18T spinnerRe: Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10Yak-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/19/10 Performance differences?? There are supposed to be performance differences? On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Ray, James wrote: What performance differences are there when using the Yak18 spinner on a Yak52? Jim James L. Ray, PE Teledyne Brown Engineering Systems Engineering 300 Sparkman Dr. MS112 Huntsville, AL 35805 Phone 256-726-3749 Fax 256-726-5126 Mailto:james.ray@tbe.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:15 PM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Re: Yak-List: oil Jerry; I just get a blank notepad. Suspect this has something to do with my less than stellar computer skills. Any advice?? Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Painter" Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: oil ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:16 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials Walt my mistake. The Phillips site says it is equivalent to 120 ? Not much info on that site. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials Doc; Phillips X/C 25W60 is not semi-synthetic. The only aviation semi-synthetic that I know of is Aeroshell 15W50. The Precision Engines letter was excellent in that it explained in detail the reason for the caution notes in the P&W SB. I totally agree that 15W50 and 20W50 should not be used in radial engines (and I would include the smaller ones). 25W60 on the other hand is probably OK for the small radials. It is nominally equivalent to 120 at higher temperatures (60 SAE = 120 SUS) though this is probably degraded by the ashless dispersant and viscosity modifier additives. Maybe the end result puts it closer to 100 SUS ? Don't know for sure but the P&W SB does recommend the use of a higher number with additives. The only disappointment in the Precision letter was no reference to the performance of 25W60. Walt -- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp M.D. Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:51 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials Why would 100 W not be appropriate for the M-14? I currently am running a multi-grade though..Phillips 25 W 60 semi-synthetic. Sounds like I need to back to AeroShell 100 W. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:47 PM Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Oil and Radials G'Day All, I received this article the other day. A "good oil" article. Some of you have no doubt read this, but I thought that it is well worth forwarding. Cheers, Chris. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ivor Paech Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:13 AM Subject: Fw: Oil and Radials Cop this and pass it on....!! And thanks for Friday night. You are getting the hang of it. Toof ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracey McFarlane & Wendy Wills' Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: Oil and Radials No so appropriate for the little ones, but interesting anyway. http://www.precisionengines.com/pdf/oilBulletin.pdf _____ www.avg.com 18:35:00 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.