Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (Bill Lang)
2. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (Yak Pilot)
3. 01:27 PM - Re: Yak-18T Spinner (Roger Kemp M.D.)
4. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (Yak Pilot)
5. 01:36 PM - Oshkosh housing (Elizabeth Rizzo)
6. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (Yak Pilot)
7. 03:24 PM - Re: Yak-18T Spinner (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (Bill Lang)
9. 09:01 PM - Re: Yak-18T Spinner (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Starter sequence M14 |
Thanks Mark=2C
Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my budget.
I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle directly to the s
pider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into the spide
r at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all components
as we try and turn the engine over=2C and eliminate in all cases any potent
ial problems upstream.
Bill
Still in need of ideas
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Fri=2C 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
t=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad=2C the prop
will tend to move a little bit=2C sometimes actually rotate backwards=2C an
d then stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to m
e like exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting th
is thing is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix i
t for you!
>
> I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for hour
s=2C and for them=2C it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
>
> If your mechanic can not do it=2C I am guessing you are going to have to
hire someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir Yastremski
=2C or Dennis.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed around wit
h the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach generator off
=2C or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that if t
hey have=2C there is a gear missing from inside that assy=2C that actually
turns the air starting distributor. In other words=2C make darn sure the ai
r-distributor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Friday=2C July 09=2C 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Yak List=3B Tim Windsor
> Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
>
> Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P starter to
start my M14P
>
> Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have provided. We
have tried several settings on the starter spider=2C but to no success. The
prop turns a few pots=2C quite slowly it seems=2C but then stops or =F6sci
llates=2C or blows air out the exhaust
>
> We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the spider
=2C eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4=2C 6 8 12 degrees a
nd still the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and
is NEW=2C with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this e
ngine. We are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the spide
r is very time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
>
> Once the engine is warm=2C the engine (I am told) started first go WITH t
he air starter. Now this may be because=3B
>
> 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> 2. maybe on a cold engine=2C valves are sticking cold=2C and are freed on
ce warmed. but
>
> Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required comp
ression limits
>
> Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold engine and
still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to throw i
n a red herring
>
> We are stumped
>
> Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most welcome
>
> Helpppp!!
>
> Bill
> .........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........
>
> Bill=2C
>
>
> Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees=2C for M14P 8 degrees=2C both on #4
cylinder after TDC.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Wednesday=2C June 02=2C 2010 9:38 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if anyone k
nows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider at
=2C or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual
are a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
>
> Bill
>
>
> _____
>
> From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Fri=2C 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
>
> If you have access to a Housai manual=2C it provides better instructions
as it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset m
ine twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: Thursday=2C April 08=2C 2010 5:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
>
>
> Let me run my mouth one last time. First=2C adjusting this thing is a rea
l pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it=2C
it requires you to get the engine set up perfectly=2C and then insert the t
hing back in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twic
e=2C and it was a real ass kicker.
>
>
> Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that you kn
ow this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start tryin
g to re-adjust it. Once you remove it=2C you have no choice but to finish t
he job.
>
>
> I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air syste
m will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
>
>
> Yes=2C it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past=2C and
just could never get it right again=2C and this is what you have wrong now
. (I.E.
> A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your proble
m=2C but as a Tech Rep=2C my mind always considers the alternatives and you
can never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good". That s
aid=2C if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low=2C it will do the exact same th
ing you are now reporting.
>
>
> That said=2C if I was there=2C I would take my nitrogen bottle with a goo
d regulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air dist
ributor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when I turn
ed it on. If the engine does the exact same thing=2C then you are sure that
the distributor is the problem. However=2C if the engine spins right aroun
d perfectly=2C then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT
THE AIR DISTRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
>
>
> Consider this advice carefully.
>
>
> Best regards=2C
>
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Thu=2C 4/8/10=2C Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Lang
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Thursday=2C April 8=2C 2010=2C 7:12 PM
>
> Mark
> Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint Manual
=2C task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thu=2C 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> MALS-14 64E"
> >
> >
> >
> > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> >
> > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
> >
> > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth that
> > has to be JUST right.
> >
> > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly=2C I believe he ha
s
> > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in the
> > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web site.
> > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> >
> > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees=2C
> > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions=2C I have seen people mess with
> > this thing for days. DAYS!
> >
> > Just FYI=2C the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up=2C it not only puts
> > air into one cylinder to push the piston down=2C it also sends air to
> > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any oil
> > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > PERFECTLY to the engine=2C just like the ignition distributor on your
> > car=2C or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on the
> > net=2C but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> >
> > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you=2C or have
> > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about messing
> > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and understand
> > them perfectly.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Thursday=2C April 08=2C 2010 6:30 AM
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was instal
led.
> > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into the
> > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start=2C and then air appears to
> > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns backw
ards.
> > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem and fo
und a fix.
> > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> >
> > Taa
> >
> > Bill
>
> /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to live?
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Browse profiles for FREE! Meet local singles online.
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Starter sequence M14 |
OOPS!- My extreme apologies.- I did not know you were in New South Wale
s.- Ok, how about phone calls?- Do you need numbers?-- Let me see w
hat I can dig up again.
-
Mark Bitterlich-
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
com.au>
Thanks Mark,
-
Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my budget.
-
I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle-directly to the
spider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into the spi
der at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all component
s as we try and turn the engine over, and eliminate in all cases any potent
ial problems upstream.
-
Bill
-
Still in need of ideas
-
-
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad, the prop wi
ll tend to move a little bit, sometimes actually rotate backwards, and then
stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to me like
exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting this thi
ng is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix it for
you!
>
> I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for hour
s, and for them, it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
>
> If your mechanic can not do it, I am guessing you are going to have to hi
re someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir Yastremski, or
Dennis.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed around wit
h the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach generator off
, or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that if the
y have, there is a gear missing from inside that assy, that actually turns
the air starting distributor. In other words, make darn sure the air-distri
butor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
>
> Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P starter to
start my M14P
>
> Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have provided. We
have tried several settings on the starter spider, but to no success. The p
rop turns a few pots, quite slowly it seems, but then stops or =F6scillates
, or blows air out the exhaust
>
> We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the spider,
eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4, 6 8 12 degrees and sti
ll the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and is NE
W, with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this engine. W
e are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the spider is ver
y time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
>
> Once the engine is warm, the engine (I am told) started first go WITH the
air starter. Now this may be because;
>
> 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> 2. maybe on a cold engine, valves are sticking cold, and are freed once w
armed. but
>
> Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required comp
ression limits
>
> Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold engine and
still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to throw i
n a red herring
>
> We are stumped
>
> Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most welcome
>
> Helpppp!!
>
> Bill
> .........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........
>
> Bill,
>
>
> Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees, for M14P 8 degrees, both on #4 cyli
nder after TDC.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:38 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if anyone k
nows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider at,
or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual are
a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
>
> Bill
>
>
> _____
>
> From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
>
> If you have access to a Housai manual, it provides better instructions as
it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset min
e twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
>
>
> Let me run my mouth one last time. First, adjusting this thing is a real
pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it, it r
equires you to get the engine set up perfectly, and then insert the thing b
ack in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twice, and
it was a real ass kicker.
>
>
> Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that you kn
ow this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start tryin
g to re-adjust it. Once you remove it, you have no choice but to finish the
job.
>
>
> I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air syste
m will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
>
>
> Yes, it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past, and jus
t could never get it right again, and this is what you have wrong now. (I.E
.
> A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your proble
m, but as a Tech Rep, my mind always considers the alternatives and you can
never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good". That said,
if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low, it will do the exact same thing you
are now reporting.
>
>
> That said, if I was there, I would take my nitrogen bottle with a good re
gulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air distribu
tor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when I turned i
t on. If the engine does the exact same thing, then you are sure that the d
istributor is the problem. However, if the engine spins right around perfec
tly, then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT THE AIR DI
STRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
>
>
> Consider this advice carefully.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Lang
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 7:12 PM
>
> Mark
> Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint Manual,
task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> MALS-14 64E"
> >
> >
> >
> > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> >
> > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
> >
> > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth that
> > has to be JUST right.
> >
> > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly, I believe he has
> > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in the
> > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web site.
> > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> >
> > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees,
> > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions, I have seen people mess with
> > this thing for days. DAYS!
> >
> > Just FYI, the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up, it not only puts
> > air into one cylinder to push the piston down, it also sends air to
> > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any oil
> > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > PERFECTLY to the engine, just like the ignition distributor on your
> > car, or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on the
> > net, but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> >
> > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you, or have
> > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about messing
> > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and understand
> > them perfectly.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:30 AM
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was instal
led.
> > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into the
> > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start, and then air appears to
> > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns backw
ards.
> > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem and fo
und a fix.
> > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> >
> > Taa
> >
> > Bill
>
> /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to li====
==================
&g===============
>
>
>
Meet local singles online. Browse profiles for FREE!
Message 3
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|
Pappy,
What mods did you make to make it easier to take off and put back on? I
have one on my 52.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
The 18T spinner on the front of a CJ-6 is a true thing of beauty. So
much character and the impression of power! Hmmmm Hmmmm Hmmmm!
I modified mine a little so that I could get it off easier (easy 10
minutes). But I do not think these things are worth $4,000! There is
just not that much complexity in it. It could even be simplified
somewhat.
For that kind of money - I'd most likely go "ugly".
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Jul 5, 2010 7:28 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
Also, when an 18T spinner is installed if you do not have a timing disc
used for timing engines with prop spinners
(http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5) and you
need to check the mag timing, you must remove a portion of the spinner
backing plate to gain access to the timing marks on the prop flange.
After doing it once, you'll wish you had the timing disc.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Didier <mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com> BLOUZARD
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
<didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
Yeahh
Just as a comparison a new overhauled Russian prop with the hub would be
around 4000 and a full overhaul for your blades would be 2000 . Plus a
spinner on a Yak not only is not necessary but introduce new risk of
vibration and complexity. Each time you need to inspect your prop you
have to unmount the spinner first which takes hours.
I am really not convinced about that unnecessary device sorry guys. We
are speaking about russian Yak, not Cirrus or Cessna......
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 5 juil. 2010 =C3=83 02:17, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> a
=C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>
> A new spinner for my UTVA-66 from Hartzell is $4000 US.
>
> Just as a comparison.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
>> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 6:04 PM
>> Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>>
>> Waoowwww
>> That's an very expensive piece of Yak
>> Thanks for that information
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Didier Blouzard
>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>
>> Le 4 juil. 2010 =C3=83 23:11, RICHARD VOLKER <rick@rvairshows.com>
>> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>>
>> <rick@rvairshows.com>
>>>
>>> 1800 euro plus shipping.
>>>
>>> Rick Volker
>>> On Jul 4, 2010, at 5:09 AM, Didier BLOUZARD wrote:
>>>
>> <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Any idea about price ???
>>>>
>>>> Didier Blouzard
>>>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>>>
>>>> Le 4 juil. 2010 =C3=83 00:38, RICHARD VOLKER <rick@rvairshows.com>
>> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>>>>
>> VOLKER <rick@rvairshows.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> GT Propeller in Italy has made one that is
>> about 18 inches wide, similar to the large MT spinner. It
>> will likely be available in the next few months. They have
>> about 24 orders waiting for this product around the world.
>>>>> Rick Volker
>>>>> On Jul 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Beezhold wrote:
>>>>>
>> "Beezhold" <tjbeezhold@comcast.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone have a good source for a
>> spinner for the Yak-18T? It has the standard V-530
>> 2-blade prop. Please let me know. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> TJB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303597#303597
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
========================
<http://www.matronics==================
======/> http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
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tp://forums.matronics.com
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Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Starter sequence M14 |
Again Bill, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.- Personally
, I have to tell you that I enjoyed Australia more than anyplace I have eve
r been in my life, and that includes a whole lot of places.- I was up in
Nowra and made friends with a lot of wonderful folks, so the last thing I w
ant to do is be a wise-a
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
com.au>
Thanks Mark,
-
Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my budget.
-
I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle-directly to the
spider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into the spi
der at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all component
s as we try and turn the engine over, and eliminate in all cases any potent
ial problems upstream.
-
Bill
-
Still in need of ideas
-
-
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad, the prop wi
ll tend to move a little bit, sometimes actually rotate backwards, and then
stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to me like
exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting this thi
ng is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix it for
you!
>
> I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for hour
s, and for them, it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
>
> If your mechanic can not do it, I am guessing you are going to have to hi
re someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir Yastremski, or
Dennis.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed around wit
h the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach generator off
, or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that if the
y have, there is a gear missing from inside that assy, that actually turns
the air starting distributor. In other words, make darn sure the air-distri
butor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
>
> Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P starter to
start my M14P
>
> Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have provided. We
have tried several settings on the starter spider, but to no success. The p
rop turns a few pots, quite slowly it seems, but then stops or =F6scillates
, or blows air out the exhaust
>
> We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the spider,
eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4, 6 8 12 degrees and sti
ll the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and is NE
W, with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this engine. W
e are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the spider is ver
y time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
>
> Once the engine is warm, the engine (I am told) started first go WITH the
air starter. Now this may be because;
>
> 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> 2. maybe on a cold engine, valves are sticking cold, and are freed once w
armed. but
>
> Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required comp
ression limits
>
> Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold engine and
still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to throw i
n a red herring
>
> We are stumped
>
> Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most welcome
>
> Helpppp!!
>
> Bill
> .........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........
>
> Bill,
>
>
> Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees, for M14P 8 degrees, both on #4 cyli
nder after TDC.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:38 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if anyone k
nows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider at,
or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual are
a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
>
> Bill
>
>
> _____
>
> From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
>
> If you have access to a Housai manual, it provides better instructions as
it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset min
e twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
>
>
> Let me run my mouth one last time. First, adjusting this thing is a real
pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it, it r
equires you to get the engine set up perfectly, and then insert the thing b
ack in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twice, and
it was a real ass kicker.
>
>
> Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that you kn
ow this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start tryin
g to re-adjust it. Once you remove it, you have no choice but to finish the
job.
>
>
> I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air syste
m will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
>
>
> Yes, it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past, and jus
t could never get it right again, and this is what you have wrong now. (I.E
.
> A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your proble
m, but as a Tech Rep, my mind always considers the alternatives and you can
never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good". That said,
if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low, it will do the exact same thing you
are now reporting.
>
>
> That said, if I was there, I would take my nitrogen bottle with a good re
gulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air distribu
tor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when I turned i
t on. If the engine does the exact same thing, then you are sure that the d
istributor is the problem. However, if the engine spins right around perfec
tly, then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT THE AIR DI
STRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
>
>
> Consider this advice carefully.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Lang
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 7:12 PM
>
> Mark
> Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint Manual,
task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> MALS-14 64E"
> >
> >
> >
> > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> >
> > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
> >
> > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth that
> > has to be JUST right.
> >
> > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly, I believe he has
> > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in the
> > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web site.
> > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> >
> > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees,
> > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions, I have seen people mess with
> > this thing for days. DAYS!
> >
> > Just FYI, the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up, it not only puts
> > air into one cylinder to push the piston down, it also sends air to
> > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any oil
> > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > PERFECTLY to the engine, just like the ignition distributor on your
> > car, or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on the
> > net, but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> >
> > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you, or have
> > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about messing
> > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and understand
> > them perfectly.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:30 AM
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was instal
led.
> > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into the
> > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start, and then air appears to
> > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns backw
ards.
> > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem and fo
und a fix.
> > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> >
> > Taa
> >
> > Bill
>
> /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to li====
==================
&g===============
>
>
>
Meet local singles online. Browse profiles for FREE!
Message 5
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|
Red Stars,
I have a hotel for Airventure this year, right in Oshkosh.
I reserved it a very long time ago and as it stands I won't be using the la
st two nights as I have to bug out back to Los Angeles on July 29.
If anyone needs a hotel room July 29-31 (respecting normal hotel checkin/ou
t times which I believe are 4:00pm and noon, although as a Platinum member
I can arrange for a late check-out at 2:00pm) please contact me at this ema
il address, elizabethrizzosaysit@yahoo.com, off-list.
The reserved room is a non-smoking, two double beds with a cont. breakfast.
The hotel website says there is a free shuttle running both to Wittman fie
ld and ATW. The room rate is $220.00/night including tax, which is how we'd
have to do it as I cannot make any changes on the room.
I want to see if any of my friends could use it first before I release the
room back to the hotel where- they have a waiting list and will charge $3
25.00/night (in fact, they'd love that.)
Regardless, fly safe everyone and I will see you there.
Elizabeth Rizzo--
-
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | RE: Starter sequence M14 |
Again Bill, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.- Personally
, I have to tell you that I enjoyed Australia more than any place I have ev
er been in my life, and that includes a whole lot of places.- I was up in
Nowra and made friends with a lot of wonderful folks, so the last thing I
want to do is be a wise-ass to a person who lives in a place I'd like to co
me back and visit!-
-
The air distributor is set very much like when timing the mags.- You want
to set the engine to 12 degrees after top dead center referencing the mast
er cylinder, which is of course cylinder number 4.- Again, set the engine
to 12 degrees AFTER top dead center on cylinder number four!-
-
Now adjust the the air distributor so that the slide valve will open the su
pply of air to the number four cylinder by 1 mm.-
-
That's the best I can do to help you.- I hope it is enough.
-
Mark
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
com.au>
Thanks Mark,
-
Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my budget.
-
I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle-directly to the
spider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into the spi
der at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all component
s as we try and turn the engine over, and eliminate in all cases any potent
ial problems upstream.
-
Bill
-
Still in need of ideas
-
-
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad, the prop wi
ll tend to move a little bit, sometimes actually rotate backwards, and then
stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to me like
exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting this thi
ng is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix it for
you!
>
> I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for hour
s, and for them, it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
>
> If your mechanic can not do it, I am guessing you are going to have to hi
re someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir Yastremski, or
Dennis.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed around wit
h the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach generator off
, or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that if the
y have, there is a gear missing from inside that assy, that actually turns
the air starting distributor. In other words, make darn sure the air-distri
butor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
>
> Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P starter to
start my M14P
>
> Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have provided. We
have tried several settings on the starter spider, but to no success. The p
rop turns a few pots, quite slowly it seems, but then stops or =F6scillates
, or blows air out the exhaust
>
> We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the spider,
eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4, 6 8 12 degrees and sti
ll the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and is NE
W, with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this engine. W
e are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the spider is ver
y time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
>
> Once the engine is warm, the engine (I am told) started first go WITH the
air starter. Now this may be because;
>
> 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> 2. maybe on a cold engine, valves are sticking cold, and are freed once w
armed. but
>
> Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required comp
ression limits
>
> Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold engine and
still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to throw i
n a red herring
>
> We are stumped
>
> Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most welcome
>
> Helpppp!!
>
> Bill
> .........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........
>
> Bill,
>
>
> Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees, for M14P 8 degrees, both on #4 cyli
nder after TDC.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:38 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if anyone k
nows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider at,
or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual are
a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
>
> Bill
>
>
> _____
>
> From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
>
> If you have access to a Housai manual, it provides better instructions as
it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset min
e twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
>
>
> Let me run my mouth one last time. First, adjusting this thing is a real
pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it, it r
equires you to get the engine set up perfectly, and then insert the thing b
ack in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twice, and
it was a real ass kicker.
>
>
> Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that you kn
ow this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start tryin
g to re-adjust it. Once you remove it, you have no choice but to finish the
job.
>
>
> I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air syste
m will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
>
>
> Yes, it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past, and jus
t could never get it right again, and this is what you have wrong now. (I.E
.
> A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your proble
m, but as a Tech Rep, my mind always considers the alternatives and you can
never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good". That said,
if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low, it will do the exact same thing you
are now reporting.
>
>
> That said, if I was there, I would take my nitrogen bottle with a good re
gulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air distribu
tor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when I turned i
t on. If the engine does the exact same thing, then you are sure that the d
istributor is the problem. However, if the engine spins right around perfec
tly, then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT THE AIR DI
STRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
>
>
> Consider this advice carefully.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Lang
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 7:12 PM
>
> Mark
> Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint Manual,
task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> MALS-14 64E"
> >
> >
> >
> > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> >
> > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
> >
> > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth that
> > has to be JUST right.
> >
> > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly, I believe he has
> > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in the
> > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web site.
> > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> >
> > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees,
> > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions, I have seen people mess with
> > this thing for days. DAYS!
> >
> > Just FYI, the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up, it not only puts
> > air into one cylinder to push the piston down, it also sends air to
> > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any oil
> > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > PERFECTLY to the engine, just like the ignition distributor on your
> > car, or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on the
> > net, but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> >
> > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you, or have
> > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about messing
> > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and understand
> > them perfectly.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:30 AM
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was instal
led.
> > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into the
> > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start, and then air appears to
> > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns backw
ards.
> > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem and fo
und a fix.
> > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> >
> > Taa
> >
> > Bill
>
> /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to li====
==================
&g===============
>
>
>
Meet local singles online. Browse profiles for FREE!
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak-18T Spinner |
Geeees its been so long, its hard to explain. I replaced 6 bolts with 6
7/16" bolts and fiber lock nuts. As it stand right now, I unscrew the sc
rews around the base of the spinner. I than remove the 8 screws that hold
the 2 cross-over pieces that are directly behind the blades. Lastly I re
move the 6 -7/16" nut bolts that hold two back plate hafts to the prop fla
nge. If at this point I wish to remove the whole prop, I just have remove
the prop lug nuts and the rest of the spinner plate is behind that.
Pappy
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 10, 2010 4:25 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
Pappy,
What mods did you make to make it easier to take off and put back on? I ha
ve one on my 52.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
The 18T spinner on the front of a CJ-6 is a true thing of beauty. So much
character and the impression of power! Hmmmm Hmmmm Hmmmm!
I modified mine a little so that I could get it off easier (easy 10 minute
s). But I do not think these things are worth $4,000! There is just not
that much complexity in it. It could even be simplified somewhat.
For that kind of money - I'd most likely go "ugly".
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Jul 5, 2010 7:28 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
Also, when an 18T spinner is installed if you do not have a timing disc us
ed for timing engines with prop spinners (http://www.aircraft-tool.com/sho
p/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5) and you need to check the mag timing, you
must remove a portion of the spinner backing plate to gain access to the
timing marks on the prop flange. After doing it once, you'll wish you ha
d the timing disc.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Didier BLOUZARD
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
>
Yeahh
Just as a comparison a new overhauled Russian prop with the hub would be
around 4000 and a full overhaul for your blades would be 2000 . Plus a sp
inner on a Yak not only is not necessary but introduce new risk of vibrat
ion and complexity. Each time you need to inspect your prop you have to un
mount the spinner first which takes hours.
I am really not convinced about that unnecessary device sorry guys. We are
speaking about russian Yak, not Cirrus or Cessna......
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 5 juil. 2010 =C3=83 02:17, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> a =C3=83=C2=A9c
rit :
>
> A new spinner for my UTVA-66 from Hartzell is $4000 US.
>
> Just as a comparison.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
>> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 6:04 PM
>> Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>>
>> Waoowwww
>> That's an very expensive piece of Yak
>> Thanks for that information
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Didier Blouzard
>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>
>> Le 4 juil. 2010 =C3=83 23:11, RICHARD VOLKER <rick@rvairshows.com>
>> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>>
>> <rick@rvairshows.com>
>>>
>>> 1800 euro plus shipping.
>>>
>>> Rick Volker
>>> On Jul 4, 2010, at 5:09 AM, Didier BLOUZARD wrote:
>>>
>> <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Any idea about price ???
>>>>
>>>> Didier Blouzard
>>>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>>>
>>>> Le 4 juil. 2010 =C3=83 00:38, RICHARD VOLKER <rick@rvairshows.com>
>> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>>>>
>> VOLKER <rick@rvairshows.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> GT Propeller in Italy has made one that is
>> about 18 inches wide, similar to the large MT spinner. It
>> will likely be available in the next few months. They have
>> about 24 orders waiting for this product around the world.
>>>>> Rick Volker
>>>>> On Jul 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Beezhold wrote:
>>>>>
>> "Beezhold" <tjbeezhold@comcast.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone have a good source for a
>> spinner for the Yak-18T? It has the standard V-530
>> 2-blade prop. Please let me know. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> TJB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303597#303597
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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vigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics============
============http://forums.matronics.com
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com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==========
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Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Starter sequence M14 |
Mark
No worries. Thank you for your efforts =2C and we will perservere with this
thing. Nothing cannot be fixed=2C eventually. Your information is indeed d
ifferent to what we had been told=2C so we will concentrate on around 12 de
grees.
Cheers
Bill
From: yakplt@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
Again Bill=2C sorry for assuming you were in the United States. Personally
=2C I have to tell you that I enjoyed Australia more than any place I have
ever been in my life=2C and that includes a whole lot of places. I was up
in Nowra and made friends with a lot of wonderful folks=2C so the last thin
g I want to do is be a wise-ass to a person who lives in a place I'd like t
o come back and visit!
The air distributor is set very much like when timing the mags. You want t
o set the engine to 12 degrees after top dead center referencing the master
cylinder=2C which is of course cylinder number 4. Again=2C set the engine
to 12 degrees AFTER top dead center on cylinder number four!
Now adjust the the air distributor so that the slide valve will open the su
pply of air to the number four cylinder by 1 mm.
That's the best I can do to help you. I hope it is enough.
Mark
--- On Sat=2C 7/10/10=2C Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
s.com.au>
Thanks Mark=2C
Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my budget.
I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle directly to the s
pider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into the spide
r at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all components
as we try and turn the engine over=2C and eliminate in all cases any potent
ial problems upstream.
Bill
Still in need of ideas
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Fri=2C 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
t=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad=2C the prop
will tend to move a little bit=2C sometimes actually rotate backwards=2C an
d then stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to m
e like exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting th
is thing is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix i
t for you!
>
> I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for hour
s=2C and for them=2C it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
>
> If your mechanic can not do it=2C I am guessing you are going to have to
hire someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir Yastremski
=2C or Dennis.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed around wit
h the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach generator off
=2C or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that if t
hey have=2C there is a gear missing from inside that assy=2C that actually
turns the air starting distributor. In other words=2C make darn sure the ai
r-distributor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Friday=2C July 09=2C 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Yak List=3B Tim Windsor
> Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
>
> Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P starter to
start my M14P
>
> Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have provided. We
have tried several settings on the starter spider=2C but to no success. The
prop turns a few pots=2C quite slowly it seems=2C but then stops or =F6sci
llates=2C or blows air out the exhaust
>
> We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the spider
=2C eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4=2C 6 8 12 degrees a
nd still the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and
is NEW=2C with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this e
ngine. We are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the spide
r is very time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
>
> Once the engine is warm=2C the engine (I am told) started first go WITH t
he air starter. Now this may be because=3B
>
> 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> 2. maybe on a cold engine=2C valves are sticking cold=2C and are freed on
ce warmed. but
>
> Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required comp
ression limits
>
> Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold engine and
still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to throw i
n a red herring
>
> We are stumped
>
> Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most welcome
>
> Helpppp!!
>
> Bill
> .........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........
>
> Bill=2C
>
>
> Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees=2C for M14P 8 degrees=2C both on #4
cylinder after TDC.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Wednesday=2C June 02=2C 2010 9:38 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if anyone k
nows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider at
=2C or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual
are a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
>
> Bill
>
>
> _____
>
> From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Fri=2C 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
>
> If you have access to a Housai manual=2C it provides better instructions
as it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset m
ine twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
>
>
> Gill
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: Thursday=2C April 08=2C 2010 5:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
>
>
> GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
>
>
> Let me run my mouth one last time. First=2C adjusting this thing is a rea
l pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it=2C
it requires you to get the engine set up perfectly=2C and then insert the t
hing back in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twic
e=2C and it was a real ass kicker.
>
>
> Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that you kn
ow this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start tryin
g to re-adjust it. Once you remove it=2C you have no choice but to finish t
he job.
>
>
> I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air syste
m will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
>
>
> Yes=2C it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past=2C and
just could never get it right again=2C and this is what you have wrong now
. (I.E.
> A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your proble
m=2C but as a Tech Rep=2C my mind always considers the alternatives and you
can never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good". That s
aid=2C if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low=2C it will do the exact same th
ing you are now reporting.
>
>
> That said=2C if I was there=2C I would take my nitrogen bottle with a goo
d regulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air dist
ributor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when I turn
ed it on. If the engine does the exact same thing=2C then you are sure that
the distributor is the problem. However=2C if the engine spins right aroun
d perfectly=2C then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT
THE AIR DISTRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
>
>
> Consider this advice carefully.
>
>
> Best regards=2C
>
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Thu=2C 4/8/10=2C Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Lang
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> Date: Thursday=2C April 8=2C 2010=2C 7:12 PM
>
> Mark
> Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint Manual
=2C task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thu=2C 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> MALS-14 64E"
> >
> >
> >
> > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> >
> > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
> >
> > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth that
> > has to be JUST right.
> >
> > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly=2C I believe he ha
s
> > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in the
> > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web site.
> > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> >
> > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees=2C
> > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions=2C I have seen people mess with
> > this thing for days. DAYS!
> >
> > Just FYI=2C the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up=2C it not only puts
> > air into one cylinder to push the piston down=2C it also sends air to
> > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any oil
> > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > PERFECTLY to the engine=2C just like the ignition distributor on your
> > car=2C or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on the
> > net=2C but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> >
> > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you=2C or have
> > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about messing
> > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and understand
> > them perfectly.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Thursday=2C April 08=2C 2010 6:30 AM
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was instal
led.
> > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into the
> > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start=2C and then air appears to
> > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns backw
ards.
> > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem and fo
und a fix.
> > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> >
> > Taa
> >
> > Bill
>
> /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to li====
==================
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>
>
>
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Message 9
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CopyThanks.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
Geeees its been so long, its hard to explain. I replaced 6 bolts with 6
7/16" bolts and fiber lock nuts. As it stand right now, I unscrew the
screws around the base of the spinner. I than remove the 8 screws that
hold the 2 cross-over pieces that are directly behind the blades.
Lastly I remove the 6 -7/16" nut bolts that hold two back plate hafts to
the prop flange. If at this point I wish to remove the whole prop, I
just have remove the prop lug nuts and the rest of the spinner plate is
behind that.
Pappy
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 10, 2010 4:25 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
Pappy,
What mods did you make to make it easier to take off and put back on? I
have one on my 52.
Doc
From: <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?>
mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
<mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com> cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
The 18T spinner on the front of a CJ-6 is a true thing of beauty. So
much character and the impression of power! Hmmmm Hmmmm Hmmmm!
I modified mine a little so that I could get it off easier (easy 10
minutes). But I do not think these things are worth $4,000! There is
just not that much complexity in it. It could even be simplified
somewhat.
For that kind of money - I'd most likely go "ugly".
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese < <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Jul 5, 2010 7:28 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
Also, when an 18T spinner is installed if you do not have a timing disc
used for timing engines with prop spinners (
<http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5>
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5) and you
need to check the mag timing, you must remove a portion of the spinner
backing plate to gain access to the timing marks on the prop flange.
After doing it once, you'll wish you had the timing disc.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com> Didier BLOUZARD
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
<mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com> didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
Yeahh
Just as a comparison a new overhauled Russian prop with the hub would be
around 4000 and a full overhaul for your blades would be 2000 . Plus a
spinner on a Yak not only is not necessary but introduce new risk of
vibration and complexity. Each time you need to inspect your prop you
have to unmount the spinner first which takes hours.
I am really not convinced about that unnecessary device sorry guys. We
are speaking about russian Yak, not Cirrus or Cessna......
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 5 juil. 2010 =C3=83 02:17, Yak Pilot < <mailto:yakplt@yahoo.com>
yakplt@yahoo.com> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
yakplt@yahoo.com>
>
> A new spinner for my UTVA-66 from Hartzell is $4000 US.
>
> Just as a comparison.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Didier BLOUZARD <
<mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com> didier.blouzard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Didier BLOUZARD < <mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-18T Spinner
>> To: " <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com" <
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 6:04 PM
>> Didier BLOUZARD < <mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>>
>> Waoowwww
>> That's an very expensive piece of Yak
>> Thanks for that information
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Didier Blouzard
>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>
>> Le 4 juil. 2010 =C3=83 23:11, RICHARD VOLKER <
<mailto:rick@rvairshows.com> rick@rvairshows.com>
>> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>>
>> < <mailto:rick@rvairshows.com> rick@rvairshows.com>
>>>
>>> 1800 euro plus shipping.
>>>
>>> Rick Volker
>>> On Jul 4, 2010, at 5:09 AM, Didier BLOUZARD wrote:
>>>
>> < <mailto:didier.blouzard@gmail.com> didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Any idea about price ???
>>>>
>>>> Didier Blouzard
>>>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>>>
>>>> Le 4 juil. 2010 =C3=83 00:38, RICHARD VOLKER <
<mailto:rick@rvairshows.com> rick@rvairshows.com>
>> a =C3=83=C2=A9crit :
>>>>
>> VOLKER < <mailto:rick@rvairshows.com> rick@rvairshows.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> GT Propeller in Italy has made one that is
>> about 18 inches wide, similar to the large MT spinner. It
>> will likely be available in the next few months. They have
>> about 24 orders waiting for this product around the world.
>>>>> Rick Volker
>>>>> On Jul 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Beezhold wrote:
>>>>>
>> "Beezhold" < <mailto:tjbeezhold@comcast.net> tjbeezhold@comcast.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone have a good source for a
>> spinner for the Yak-18T? It has the standard V-530
>> 2-blade prop. Please let me know. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> TJB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303597#303597>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303597#303597
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
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>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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>> Dralle, List Admin.
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