Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: M14P Magneto (mikspin)
2. 12:53 AM - Re: M14P Magneto (Arthur White)
3. 05:40 AM - a very good lesson learnt (Jan Mevis)
4. 06:08 AM - Re: M14P Magneto (Roger Kemp M.D.)
5. 06:33 AM - Re: a very good lesson learnt (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 06:33 AM - Re: M14P Magneto (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: M14P Magneto (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 09:55 AM - M14P magnetos (Richard Goode)
9. 11:37 AM - Re: M14P Magneto (flyayak)
10. 12:02 PM - Travel to Oshkosh (Dave \)
11. 03:05 PM - Re: M14P Magneto (cjpilot710@aol.com)
12. 03:34 PM - Re: M14P Magneto (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
13. 10:06 PM - Australian Yakkers (Jay Land)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Magneto |
Stefan,
Where are you in Germany?
Mike Hastings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305408#305408
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Magneto |
Stefan
I do not know if this will help but it may save a coil or mag change.
I had an identical problem, engine stopping for a moment then picking up,
but only when hot and in flight, not reproduced on the ground except after
an in flight event.
We changed the coil, changed the cigarette in the mag and checked the
plugs, In the end we looked in the high tension cable insulation and the
bottom two cylinder cables where wet with an oilly watery fluid.
The theory is that the fluid was static in the insulation on the ground and
most of the HT lead dry, but in flight especially during aerobatic the flui
d
ran back and caused the engine to stop for short periods.
I hope this helps.
And thanks to my friends Jan and Christian for working this problem.
Arthur
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:10 AM, flyayak <sschne3082@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Hi YAK-Folks,
>
> first of all I want to thank you all for this great forum. It helps me a
> lot to solve several problems with my YAK 52 in the past.
> Now I have a question to all of you M14P experts.
> A few weeks ago, while riding in my YAK with 82% and climbing, after 20
> minutes the engine stops two times short one after another only for a
> heartbeat. I stopped climbing immediately and closed the throttle. After
> that, I noticed a loss of power, while the engine runs smooth again. Afte
r
> checking the mags, with no noticeable problems I went back to the airfiel
d,
> landed and while shutting down the prob it turned backwards a few cycles,
> which it hasn=B4t done for the last 120 hours. I pulled the plugs (Dennis
=92
> automotive conversion kit was installed two years ago and the plugs were
> till the last 30 hours) and they have showed a white surface, so it seems
> that the mixture was too lean. Therefore I changed the diaphragm of the
> carb, which was already inside since the last 25 years (!). It looks a bi
t
> crumpled but without any cracks.
>
> While test running the engine after this with the cowling off, it runs
> great on ground and shows every values in an acceptable range. After putt
ing
> the cowling back on again I did a test run again and while switching to
> magneto #2 it stops intermittently for a second or so and shows also on b
oth
> magnetos an excessive drop of rpm, that means round about 6-7%. It was a
> very hot day with outside temperatures of about 36=B0C. At the moment it
is
> very hot in Germany....
>
> So, my question is, is it possible, that both coils in the mags went TU (
I
> like this expression ;-)) while the engine get (very) hot? Any other
> advices?
>
> Thanks a lot in advance.
>
> Best regards
> Stefan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305269#305269
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Best regards
Arthur.
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| Subject: | a very good lesson learnt |
Yesterday I almost got sliced up in small pieces when turning the prop of a
Yak 52, before starting. The mags were off, someone was in the cockpit, but
nevertheless, the engine started, unexpectedly.
It scared the hell out of me, but it was my own fault. I had been working on
the left mag, and simply forgot to put the P-lead back.
Unacceptable, of course, and very stupid, I agree. This never should have
happened. I probably was distracted when working on the engine.
Because I did not expect (or want) the engine to start, I was standing very
close to this big propeller.
I've learnt my lesson, and I hope that this bad experience may help others
being more cautious than I was.
BR,
Jan Mevis
YK52 RA1453K
Message 4
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Answer, start simple and work your way forward. Shot gunning the problem
may
get you an answer but you do not know what the exact thing was that
fixed
the problem. Admittedly, it will mean doing one thing taking the plane
up
over the airfield in gliding distance in case you loose the motor
entirely.
This being each time you make a change.
Having gone through that with about a month of sphincter tightening
experiences like momentary lose of power at 20 min to a rough spitting
and
sputtering engine barely making power as I was gliding down from 3500
ft. to
two idiots bantering on the radio (CTAF) while trying to make an
emergency
landing.
The problem was fixed by changing the mag coil on #2. That all being
said
that may not be your problem. If you want to solve the crappy plug wire
issue while you are at it, change to the Taylor plug wire and auto plug
conversion. Check your timing but do you know yet which mag ran rough in
the
air? If so, I would look at that one closely maybe even checking the
points
setting, look at the distributor cap for arcing. If you want to be
really
obsessive, ohm out each plug wires. The but is you have a lot of places
to
look. Having gone through this a couple of times changing the coil was
the
answer for me.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Arthur White
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Stefan
I do not know if this will help but it may save a coil or mag change.
I had an identical problem, engine stopping for a moment then picking
up,
but only when hot and in flight, not reproduced on the ground except
after
an in flight event.
We changed the coil, changed the cigarette in the mag and checked the
plugs,
In the end we looked in the high tension cable insulation and the bottom
two
cylinder cables where wet with an oilly watery fluid.
The theory is that the fluid was static in the insulation on the ground
and
most of the HT lead dry, but in flight especially during aerobatic the
fluid
ran back and caused the engine to stop for short periods.
I hope this helps.
And thanks to my friends Jan and Christian for working this problem.
Arthur
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:10 AM, flyayak <sschne3082@aol.com> wrote:
Hi YAK-Folks,
first of all I want to thank you all for this great forum. It helps me a
lot
to solve several problems with my YAK 52 in the past.
Now I have a question to all of you M14P experts.
A few weeks ago, while riding in my YAK with 82% and climbing, after 20
minutes the engine stops two times short one after another only for a
heartbeat. I stopped climbing immediately and closed the throttle. After
that, I noticed a loss of power, while the engine runs smooth again.
After
checking the mags, with no noticeable problems I went back to the
airfield,
landed and while shutting down the prob it turned backwards a few
cycles,
which it hasn=B4t done for the last 120 hours. I pulled the plugs
(Dennis=92
automotive conversion kit was installed two years ago and the plugs were
till the last 30 hours) and they have showed a white surface, so it
seems
that the mixture was too lean. Therefore I changed the diaphragm of the
carb, which was already inside since the last 25 years (!). It looks a
bit
crumpled but without any cracks.
While test running the engine after this with the cowling off, it runs
great
on ground and shows every values in an acceptable range. After putting
the
cowling back on again I did a test run again and while switching to
magneto
#2 it stops intermittently for a second or so and shows also on both
magnetos an excessive drop of rpm, that means round about 6-7%. It was a
very hot day with outside temperatures of about 36=B0C. At the moment it
is
very hot in Germany....
So, my question is, is it possible, that both coils in the mags went TU
(I
like this expression ;-)) while the engine get (very) hot? Any other
advices?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
Stefan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305269#305269
ties such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
--
Best regards
Arthur.
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| Subject: | Re: a very good lesson learnt |
Excellent lesson Jan and thank goodness you were not injured. To add to
your "lesson", if the engine were started normally, you would have had a
big dilemma when it came to shutting it down. You WOULDN'T have been
able to shut the engine off using the standard procedure. ie: turning
off the mag switch
Since we know what it takes to keep the engine running.....air, fuel and
spark.....if you can't shut off the spark (P-lead disconnected from one
mag) , that leaves air and fuel. So you pull the red fuel shut off
lever to shut the fuel off from the engine. Ahhh.....that should do it.
Right? Yes, it should, but what happens if it doesn't shut the fuel
off? Have you tested the fuel shut off in your airplane recently? Or
ever for that matter? You may have pulled the lever, but do you know if
it shuts the fuel off?
Here's a little test you can perform to test the fuel shut off without
the engine running. It should be done at least at every annual
condition inspection.
- Pull the red fuel shut off handle to the rear
- Turn the primer pump to the SYSTEM side (turn to the left on a 52; to
the right on a 50)
- Now pump the primer until you feel a hard backpressure which prevents
you from pushing the primer pump in any further.
- While pushing on the primer pump, push the red fuel shut off handle
forward.
- The primer pump should immediately push all the way in
This tells us the fuel is actually shut off between the coarse fuel
screen and the fuel pump.
If you do not feel the hard back pressure while pumping the primer with
the fuel shut off pulled to the rear, the fuel shut off at the coarse
fuel screen is not shutting the fuel off completely. This will allow
the engine to continue to run even with the red lever back and the mags
turned off. Also if you do not feel the hard back pressure while
pumping the primer with the fuel shut off, the fuel system may have a
leak.
Remove the control cable from the fuel shut off lever and make sure the
lever is at the stop in the shut off position. Now go back in the
cockpit and repeat the primer pump test. Adjust the cable end to fit
with the shut off lever in the fully closed position.
Also make certain the cable sleeve is not sliding in the cable sleeve
clamps. If the sleeve moves, it may prevent the cable from shutting off
the fuel completely.
Any questions, please ask. Hope this helps.
Dennis
p.s. Ask yourself what would you do if you couldn't shut the engine
down by turning off the mags AND pulling the fuel shut off lever to the
rear. I had to do this on two separate occasions.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:39 AM
Subject: Yak-List: a very good lesson learnt
Yesterday I almost got sliced up in small pieces when turning the prop
of a Yak 52, before starting. The mags were off, someone was in the
cockpit, but nevertheless, the engine started, unexpectedly.
It scared the hell out of me, but it was my own fault. I had been
working on the left mag, and simply forgot to put the P-lead back.
Unacceptable, of course, and very stupid, I agree. This never should
have happened. I probably was distracted when working on the engine.
Because I did not expect (or want) the engine to start, I was standing
very close to this big propeller.
I=92ve learnt my lesson, and I hope that this bad experience may help
others being more cautious than I was.
BR,
Jan Mevis
YK52 RA1453K
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Magneto |
If you decide to make the automotive plug conversion, I have the kits in
stock. Contact me off-list for further info.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp M.D.
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Answer, start simple and work your way forward. Shot gunning the
problem may get you an answer but you do not know what the exact thing
was that fixed the problem. Admittedly, it will mean doing one thing
taking the plane up over the airfield in gliding distance in case you
loose the motor entirely. This being each time you make a change.
Having gone through that with about a month of sphincter tightening
experiences like momentary lose of power at 20 min to a rough spitting
and sputtering engine barely making power as I was gliding down from
3500 ft. to two idiots bantering on the radio (CTAF) while trying to
make an emergency landing.
The problem was fixed by changing the mag coil on #2. That all being
said that may not be your problem. If you want to solve the crappy plug
wire issue while you are at it, change to the Taylor plug wire and auto
plug conversion. Check your timing but do you know yet which mag ran
rough in the air? If so, I would look at that one closely maybe even
checking the points setting, look at the distributor cap for arcing. If
you want to be really obsessive, ohm out each plug wires. The but is you
have a lot of places to look. Having gone through this a couple of times
changing the coil was the answer for me.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Arthur White
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:53 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Stefan
I do not know if this will help but it may save a coil or mag change.
I had an identical problem, engine stopping for a moment then picking
up, but only when hot and in flight, not reproduced on the ground except
after an in flight event.
We changed the coil, changed the cigarette in the mag and checked the
plugs, In the end we looked in the high tension cable insulation and
the bottom two cylinder cables where wet with an oilly watery fluid.
The theory is that the fluid was static in the insulation on the
ground and most of the HT lead dry, but in flight especially during
aerobatic the fluid ran back and caused the engine to stop for short
periods.
I hope this helps.
And thanks to my friends Jan and Christian for working this problem.
Arthur
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:10 AM, flyayak <sschne3082@aol.com> wrote:
Hi YAK-Folks,
first of all I want to thank you all for this great forum. It helps me
a lot to solve several problems with my YAK 52 in the past.
Now I have a question to all of you M14P experts.
A few weeks ago, while riding in my YAK with 82% and climbing, after
20 minutes the engine stops two times short one after another only for a
heartbeat. I stopped climbing immediately and closed the throttle. After
that, I noticed a loss of power, while the engine runs smooth again.
After checking the mags, with no noticeable problems I went back to the
airfield, landed and while shutting down the prob it turned backwards a
few cycles, which it hasn=B4t done for the last 120 hours. I pulled the
plugs (Dennis=92 automotive conversion kit was installed two years ago
and the plugs were till the last 30 hours) and they have showed a white
surface, so it seems that the mixture was too lean. Therefore I changed
the diaphragm of the carb, which was already inside since the last 25
years (!). It looks a bit crumpled but without any cracks.
While test running the engine after this with the cowling off, it runs
great on ground and shows every values in an acceptable range. After
putting the cowling back on again I did a test run again and while
switching to magneto #2 it stops intermittently for a second or so and
shows also on both magnetos an excessive drop of rpm, that means round
about 6-7%. It was a very hot day with outside temperatures of about
36=B0C. At the moment it is very hot in Germany....
So, my question is, is it possible, that both coils in the mags went
TU (I like this expression ;-)) while the engine get (very) hot? Any
other advices?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
Stefan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305269#305269
ties such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
--
Best regards
Arthur.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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As a Tech Rep, my rule of thumb when there is a problem is to always go where people
last were putting their hands on something. It usually works. :-)
You may actually have TWO problems. If you go looking for just one thing that
will cause EVERY problem you have listed, you may end up driving yourself nuts.
So as Doc was alluding to, take one problem at a time. I have seen bad fuel
cause my M-14P to run backwards when I shut off the mags. It also happened
a few times when I tried running various grades of automotive fuel mixed with
100LL Av-Gas. So, the engine running backwards a few blades may not be related
to the MAGS at all, but instead to a bad load of fuel. Also.... Remember that
water in the fuel, or again just BAD fuel, could cause the engine to spit and
sputter in flight. And bad fuel is a really easy thing to overlook. You also
could have a restriction in the fuel line. Did you happen to eye-ball that
fuel pressure gage when all this was going on? There are a lot of stories on
the YAK list of people finding all manner of things in fuel lines, and ... Just
off the cuff, it appears to me that you actually acknowledged that the engine
might be running lean, tried a corrective procedure, and maybe what you tried
to fix was never the problem to begin with. I.E Your engine may still possibly
be running lean. With no EGT indications, it is pretty hard to really
tell right NOW, how rich or lean that engine really is. The carb barostat could
easily be at fault.
Anyway, a lot of what you are talking about sounds fuel related to me. Or rather,
it sounds like it COULD be fuel related.
Repeat your test with the one mag that runs badly. While it is running badly,
just for the heck of it, turn your primer handle to the prime position. Do not
pump it or pull it out. Just turn it to the prime position. This will cause
the engine to run REALLY rich. See if all of a sudden your engine now is running
perfectly with no missing. If it does, you don't have a mag problem. If
it continues, you probably do have a mag problem, test accordingly.
No, I don't think two coils from two mags would ever go Tango Uniform at the same
time. Of course anything is possible, but this is pretty unlikely.
My gut feeling is that you have a fuel issue and maybe one bad mag. But this is
just a wild guess.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Answer, start simple and work your way forward. Shot gunning the problem may get
you an answer but you do not know what the exact thing was that fixed the problem.
Admittedly, it will mean doing one thing taking the plane up over the airfield
in gliding distance in case you loose the motor entirely. This being each
time you make a change.
Having gone through that with about a month of sphincter tightening experiences
like momentary lose of power at 20 min to a rough spitting and sputtering engine
barely making power as I was gliding down from 3500 ft. to two idiots bantering
on the radio (CTAF) while trying to make an emergency landing.
The problem was fixed by changing the mag coil on #2. That all being said that
may not be your problem. If you want to solve the crappy plug wire issue while
you are at it, change to the Taylor plug wire and auto plug conversion. Check
your timing but do you know yet which mag ran rough in the air? If so, I would
look at that one closely maybe even checking the points setting, look at the
distributor cap for arcing. If you want to be really obsessive, ohm out each
plug wires. The but is you have a lot of places to look. Having gone through this
a couple of times changing the coil was the answer for me.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Arthur White
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Stefan
I do not know if this will help but it may save a coil or mag change.
I had an identical problem, engine stopping for a moment then picking up, but only
when hot and in flight, not reproduced on the ground except after an in flight
event.
We changed the coil, changed the cigarette in the mag and checked the plugs, In
the end we looked in the high tension cable insulation and the bottom two cylinder
cables where wet with an oilly watery fluid.
The theory is that the fluid was static in the insulation on the ground and most
of the HT lead dry, but in flight especially during aerobatic the fluid ran
back and caused the engine to stop for short periods.
I hope this helps.
And thanks to my friends Jan and Christian for working this problem.
Arthur
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:10 AM, flyayak <sschne3082@aol.com> wrote:
Hi YAK-Folks,
first of all I want to thank you all for this great forum. It helps me a lot to
solve several problems with my YAK 52 in the past.
Now I have a question to all of you M14P experts.
A few weeks ago, while riding in my YAK with 82% and climbing, after 20 minutes
the engine stops two times short one after another only for a heartbeat. I stopped
climbing immediately and closed the throttle. After that, I noticed a loss
of power, while the engine runs smooth again. After checking the mags, with
no noticeable problems I went back to the airfield, landed and while shutting
down the prob it turned backwards a few cycles, which it hasnt done for the last
120 hours. I pulled the plugs (Dennis' automotive conversion kit was installed
two years ago and the plugs were till the last 30 hours) and they have showed
a white surface, so it seems that the mixture was too lean. Therefore I changed
the diaphragm of the carb, which was already inside since the last 25 years
(!). It looks a bit crumpled but without any cracks.
While test running the engine after this with the cowling off, it runs great on
ground and shows every values in an acceptable range. After putting the cowling
back on again I did a test run again and while switching to magneto #2 it stops
intermittently for a second or so and shows also on both magnetos an excessive
drop of rpm, that means round about 6-7%. It was a very hot day with outside
temperatures of about 36C. At the moment it is very hot in Germany....
So, my question is, is it possible, that both coils in the mags went TU (I like
this expression ;-)) while the engine get (very) hot? Any other advices?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
Stefan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305269#305269
ties such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
--
Best regards
Arthur.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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I suppose this kind of intermittent, and indeed severe, misfiring COULD be
down to a blocked vent line, but I doubt it.
In my experience this is almost certainly a magneto winding problem,
probably aggravated by poor ignition leads and sparking plugs.
BUT, the problem will be inside the magneto.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Magneto |
O.k., I realized that this issue can have a lot of different reasons.
Today, I worked further on the issue. After a further test run, which shows the
said excessive drop of rpm and a rough running on mag #2 and back cycling of
the prop after shutting down, I pulled all the spark plugs and replugged them
to the advised .020 (as I said I already have the automotive conversion kit in).
They were gapped to round about .030. I also removed the distributor cap from
magneto #2 and cleaned all parts inside, especially the spring which holds
the cigar down. This one shows a lot of corrosion. I had a similar problem a few
time ago on mag #1 which prevents the engine from starting because of a loss
of high tension from the starting coil.
After that the engine runs very well on ground and shows only round about 2% loss
of rpm on both mags.
O.k., I understand, that the coil in mag #2 can be nevertheless bad, but tomorrow
I will put my nappy's on and start I test flight above the airfield.
The issue with the mixed/bad fuel is also a good hint, because at the moment I
have a mixture of car fuel and avgas in it.
Stefan
(from the southern part of Germany near Munich)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305458#305458
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| Subject: | Travel to Oshkosh |
Folks:
We have a three ship heading to Oshkosh on Sunday the 25th. We are from
Pensacola and Tuscaloosa area. Anyone heading up on Sunday who wants to
go with us or will allow us to join up with them, let me know off list.
Dave Jester
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Magneto |
If you have the original ignition harness, this could be your problem. I
literally chase "mag/plug" for months and months. It (the ignition harne
ss) finally gave up entirely high over Americas GA. on the way to an airsh
ow. A young crop duster mechanic with a southern draw so long that it too
k him forever to tell me he thought it was the harness. He did a test, su
re enough that was it. I spent the night and sent off for Dennis' auto plu
g / harness and have had NO problems since.
The original ignition harness's on the M-14 is well built for 1940's techn
ology, but the insulation on the wire will break down over time and use.
It can be intermittent, and will give every indication similar to a mag/
coil or plugs. I really believe that 90% of the problems I had were due
to the gradual break down of the harness.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 19, 2010 9:07 am
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Answer, start simple and work your way forward. Shot gunning the problem
may get you an answer but you do not know what the exact thing was that
fixed the problem. Admittedly, it will mean doing one thing taking the pl
ane up over the airfield in gliding distance in case you loose the motor
entirely. This being each time you make a change.
Having gone through that with about a month of sphincter tightening experi
ences like momentary lose of power at 20 min to a rough spitting and sputt
ering engine barely making power as I was gliding down from 3500 ft. to tw
o idiots bantering on the radio (CTAF) while trying to make an emergency
landing.
The problem was fixed by changing the mag coil on #2. That all being said
that may not be your problem. If you want to solve the crappy plug wire
issue while you are at it, change to the Taylor plug wire and auto plug
conversion. Check your timing but do you know yet which mag ran rough in
the air? If so, I would look at that one closely maybe even checking the
points setting, look at the distributor cap for arcing. If you want to be
really obsessive, ohm out each plug wires. The but is you have a lot of
places to look. Having gone through this a couple of times changing the
coil was the answer for me.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Arthur White
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Stefan
I do not know if this will help but it may save a coil or mag change.
I had an identical problem, engine stopping for a moment then picking up,
but only when hot and in flight, not reproduced on the ground except afte
r an in flight event.
We changed the coil, changed the cigarette in the mag and checked the plug
s, In the end we looked in the high tension cable insulation and the bott
om two cylinder cables where wet with an oilly watery fluid.
The theory is that the fluid was static in the insulation on the ground an
d most of the HT lead dry, but in flight especially during aerobatic the
fluid ran back and caused the engine to stop for short periods.
I hope this helps.
And thanks to my friends Jan and Christian for working this problem.
Arthur
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:10 AM, flyayak <sschne3082@aol.com> wrote:
Hi YAK-Folks,
first of all I want to thank you all for this great forum. It helps me a
lot to solve several problems with my YAK 52 in the past.
Now I have a question to all of you M14P experts.
A few weeks ago, while riding in my YAK with 82% and climbing, after 20 mi
nutes the engine stops two times short one after another only for a heartb
eat. I stopped climbing immediately and closed the throttle. After that,
I noticed a loss of power, while the engine runs smooth again. After chec
king the mags, with no noticeable problems I went back to the airfield, la
nded and while shutting down the prob it turned backwards a few cycles, wh
ich it hasn=C2=B4t done for the last 120 hours. I pulled the plugs (Dennis
=99 automotive conversion kit was installed two years ago and the pl
ugs were till the last 30 hours) and they have showed a white surface, so
it seems that the mixture was too lean. Therefore I changed the diaphragm
of the carb, which was already inside since the last 25 years (!). It loo
ks a bit crumpled but without any cracks.
While test running the engine after this with the cowling off, it runs gre
at on ground and shows every values in an acceptable range. After putting
the cowling back on again I did a test run again and while switching to
magneto #2 it stops intermittently for a second or so and shows also on
both magnetos an excessive drop of rpm, that means round about 6-7%. It
was a very hot day with outside temperatures of about 36=C2=B0C. At the
moment it is very hot in Germany....
So, my question is, is it possible, that both coils in the mags went TU (I
like this expression ;-)) while the engine get (very) hot? Any other advi
ces?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
Stefan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305269#305269
ties such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"; target="_blank">http://www.matron
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ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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Arthur.
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Message 12
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ABSOLUTELY DARN SKIPPY. DEAD ON CORRECT.
For those in Europe, there is a kit where you can replace the original Russian
wire with silicone wire. PAIN IN THE TAIL to install. Did it once. Never again.
Of course you also have to install new cigarette ends on each wire, etc.,
etc. Not a lot of fun. But, it does keep it legal (for Europe). I think Richard
Goode probably knows all the details on that.
Mark Bitterlich
P.S. Stephan.... Plug gap using the kit you are now using is important. Something
to keep in mind ... And I have said this already in a different message
string. A wider gap takes more voltage to jump. The usual failure mode of Mag
coils is that the insulation breaks down and they short. This can also be exacerbated
by heat. The wider the gap, also causes more heat in the coil. Going
from .030 to .020 may have indeed solved your most immediate problem, but
realize that you might just have lowered the internal temp, and voltage requirements
of an already weak coil, just enough to allow it to work well again. If
I were you, I'd try to obtain a coil to keep handy, or a whole mag for that
matter.
Yes, my personal M-14P tended to stop and "kick back" when run with auto-fuel.
I am sure it had something to do with fuel mixture, vapor pressure, outside temp,
timing, whatever. But be aware of this.... It did that once and sheared
the generator coupling shaft..... as in POOF. It is NOT a good thing to allow
to continue to happen. It doesn't take a lot of headwork to realize that any
spinning mass that suddenly reverses direction puts a tremendous strain on the
parts. Generator, mags, you name it.. Not to mention engine internals.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
If you have the original ignition harness, this could be your problem. I literally
chase "mag/plug" for months and months. It (the ignition harness) finally
gave up entirely high over Americas GA. on the way to an airshow. A young crop
duster mechanic with a southern draw so long that it took him forever to tell
me he thought it was the harness. He did a test, sure enough that was it.
I spent the night and sent off for Dennis' auto plug / harness and have had NO
problems since.
The original ignition harness's on the M-14 is well built for 1940's technology,
but the insulation on the wire will break down over time and use. It can be
intermittent, and will give every indication similar to a mag/ coil or plugs.
I really believe that 90% of the problems I had were due to the gradual break
down of the harness.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 19, 2010 9:07 am
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Answer, start simple and work your way forward. Shot gunning the problem may get
you an answer but you do not know what the exact thing was that fixed the problem.
Admittedly, it will mean doing one thing taking the plane up over the airfield
in gliding distance in case you loose the motor entirely. This being each
time you make a change.
Having gone through that with about a month of sphincter tightening experiences
like momentary lose of power at 20 min to a rough spitting and sputtering engine
barely making power as I was gliding down from 3500 ft. to two idiots bantering
on the radio (CTAF) while trying to make an emergency landing.
The problem was fixed by changing the mag coil on #2. That all being said that
may not be your problem. If you want to solve the crappy plug wire issue while
you are at it, change to the Taylor plug wire and auto plug conversion. Check
your timing but do you know yet which mag ran rough in the air? If so, I would
look at that one closely maybe even checking the points setting, look at the
distributor cap for arcing. If you want to be really obsessive, ohm out each
plug wires. The but is you have a lot of places to look. Having gone through this
a couple of times changing the coil was the answer for me.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of Arthur White
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P Magneto
Stefan
I do not know if this will help but it may save a coil or mag change.
I had an identical problem, engine stopping for a moment then picking up, but only
when hot and in flight, not reproduced on the ground except after an in flight
event.
We changed the coil, changed the cigarette in the mag and checked the plugs, In
the end we looked in the high tension cable insulation and the bottom two cylinder
cables where wet with an oilly watery fluid.
The theory is that the fluid was static in the insulation on the ground and most
of the HT lead dry, but in flight especially during aerobatic the fluid ran
back and caused the engine to stop for short periods.
I hope this helps.
And thanks to my friends Jan and Christian for working this problem.
Arthur
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:10 AM, flyayak <sschne3082@aol.com> wrote:
Hi YAK-Folks,
first of all I want to thank you all for this great forum. It helps me a lot to
solve several problems with my YAK 52 in the past.
Now I have a question to all of you M14P experts.
A few weeks ago, while riding in my YAK with 82% and climbing, after 20 minutes
the engine stops two times short one after another only for a heartbeat. I stopped
climbing immediately and closed the throttle. After that, I noticed a loss
of power, while the engine runs smooth again. After checking the mags, with
no noticeable problems I went back to the airfield, landed and while shutting
down the prob it turned backwards a few cycles, which it hasnt done for the last
120 hours. I pulled the plugs (Dennis' automotive conversion kit was installed
two years ago and the plugs were till the last 30 hours) and they have showed
a white surface, so it seems that the mixture was too lean. Therefore I changed
the diaphragm of the carb, which was already inside since the last 25 years
(!). It looks a bit crumpled but without any cracks.
While test running the engine after this with the cowling off, it runs great on
ground and shows every values in an acceptable range. After putting the cowling
back on again I did a test run again and while switching to magneto #2 it stops
intermittently for a second or so and shows also on both magnetos an excessive
drop of rpm, that means round about 6-7%. It was a very hot day with outside
temperatures of about 36C. At the moment it is very hot in Germany....
So, my question is, is it possible, that both coils in the mags went TU (I like
this expression ;-)) while the engine get (very) hot? Any other advices?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Best regards
Stefan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305269#305269
ties such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"; target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
--
Best regards
Arthur.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 13
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| Subject: | Australian Yakkers |
Are there any RPA Yakkers near Sydney? Gabby is going to be there the next
year in college and hopes to be able to fly sometime.
Thx,
Jay
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