Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Re: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:11 AM - Re: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps (Dr Andre Katz)
3. 09:21 AM - Mogas etc (Richard Goode)
4. 11:33 AM - CJ6 Hot Starts (Okanogan Lew)
5. 12:00 PM - Re: Mogas etc (Jan Mevis)
6. 12:24 PM - Re: Mogas etc (Jan Mevis)
7. 01:26 PM - Re: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps (doug sapp)
8. 02:51 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 03:05 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 03:05 PM - Re: Mogas etc (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 03:46 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Paul Lewis)
12. 03:58 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (doug sapp)
13. 04:44 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (A. Dennis Savarese)
14. 05:49 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Roger Kemp M.D.)
15. 06:29 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Noplugs)
16. 06:55 PM - hot start (T A LEWIS)
17. 08:03 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Walter Lannon)
18. 08:30 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Paul Lewis)
19. 08:33 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Walter Lannon)
20. 08:53 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Walter Lannon)
21. 09:50 PM - Re: CJ6 Hot Starts (Paul Hamlin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps |
Scott,
I'm not sure what the bulbs look like in the Yak 55. But if they are
the typical Russian bulbs, we've been replacing them with 3899's. The
base is identical to the Russian bulbs as used in the Yak 52's.
http://www.frontierlighting.com/product.jsp?part 14&process=search&
show=&
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Poehlmann
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:35 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator
lamps
Anybody have a good replacement bulb for the lamps in the "GEN-FAIL",
"CHIP-IN-OIL" and "OVER-G" lights?
Thanks,
Scott Poehlmann
Yak-55M
N155YK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps |
I got bulbs from the company in arizona and they were not the same size so i
believe that yak 50's and 18 have different numbers from the 55
________________________________
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 6:21:57 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps
Scott,
I'm not sure what the bulbs look like in the Yak 55. But if they are the
typical Russian bulbs, we've been replacing them with 3899's. The base is
identical to the Russian bulbs as used in the Yak 52's.
http://www.frontierlighting.com/product.jsp?part 14&process=search&show
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
>From: Scott Poehlmann
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:35 PM
>Subject: Yak-List: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps
>
>
>Anybody have a good replacement bulb for the lamps in the "GEN-FAIL",
>"CHIP-IN-OIL" and "OVER-G" lights?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Scott ========================
>http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>_p; generous bsp;
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
Message 3
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I would not take such as dismal view as Jan Mevis.
Clearly AvGas is a "minority" fuel, and there will be good commercial
reasons to stop producing it.
However, in the old car world in the UK, we have had the same issues, and
there are a number of products that can be bought, which actually contain
tetra-ethyl-lead. Some products contain different chemicals, but with
similar effect.
These have the same effect as lead in terms of valve-erosion etc but also
increase the octane rating. The costs are significantly less than the
current UK difference between Mogas and AvGas. However it does not solve
the potential problem of vaporisation.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
Message 4
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Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show & parked the
CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time was noon. By then
it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard start-up routine, which is
5 primes with a pull of the blade between each. I hit the start & the engine
turned over, but would not start. It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes,
but still nothing. I then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By
then, I was very low on air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it
again with my usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired
off. I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual start-up &
again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed the hell out of it
& still nothing. Finally gave up again. This morning, it started with the usual
start up routine. Go Figure!! A couple of points. I had 1/2 car gas &
1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of the plane (primer side) was facing
the sun. Do you think the heat cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was
blocking the fuel flow? Any other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran
fine for the hour trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
Message 5
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Well, the future will point it out. I hope that I'm wrong, Richard.
Indeed, in the UK you can even buy the tetra-ethyl lead in the
oldtimer-circuit but it is quite expensive.
I've looked in depth at all the different "ersatz"-products for the TEL,
most of them are simply very toxic.
BR,
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: maandag 26 juli 2010 6:21
Subject: Yak-List: Mogas etc
I would not take such as dismal view as Jan Mevis.
Clearly AvGas is a "minority" fuel, and there will be good commercial
reasons to stop producing it.
However, in the old car world in the UK, we have had the same issues, and
there are a number of products that can be bought, which actually contain
tetra-ethyl-lead. Some products contain different chemicals, but with
similar effect.
These have the same effect as lead in terms of valve-erosion etc but also
increase the octane rating. The costs are significantly less than the
current UK difference between Mogas and AvGas. However it does not solve
the potential problem of vaporisation.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 6
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Have a look at this:
http://www.epi-eng.com/aircraft_engine_products/demise_of_avgas.htm
BR,
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: maandag 26 juli 2010 9:00
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mogas etc
Well, the future will point it out. I hope that I'm wrong, Richard.
Indeed, in the UK you can even buy the tetra-ethyl lead in the
oldtimer-circuit but it is quite expensive.
I've looked in depth at all the different "ersatz"-products for the TEL,
most of them are simply very toxic.
BR,
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: maandag 26 juli 2010 6:21
Subject: Yak-List: Mogas etc
I would not take such as dismal view as Jan Mevis.
Clearly AvGas is a "minority" fuel, and there will be good commercial
reasons to stop producing it.
However, in the old car world in the UK, we have had the same issues, and
there are a number of products that can be bought, which actually contain
tetra-ethyl-lead. Some products contain different chemicals, but with
similar effect.
These have the same effect as lead in terms of valve-erosion etc but also
increase the octane rating. The costs are significantly less than the
current UK difference between Mogas and AvGas. However it does not solve
the potential problem of vaporisation.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator lamps |
If you can send me photo with size, I'll try to match them up with CJ6 or
maybe Dennis has already done that?
Doug
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net> wrote:
> I got bulbs from the company in arizona and they were not the same size so
> i believe that yak 50's and 18 have different numbers from the 55
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, July 26, 2010 6:21:57 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other
> indicator lamps
>
> Scott,
> I'm not sure what the bulbs look like in the Yak 55. But if they are the
> typical Russian bulbs, we've been replacing them with 3899's. The base is
> identical to the Russian bulbs as used in the Yak 52's.
> http://www.frontierlighting.com/product.jsp?part 14&process=search&show
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Scott Poehlmann <scott-p@texas.net>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:35 PM
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Replacement bulb for "GEN FAIL" and other indicator
> lamps
>
>
> Anybody have a good replacement bulb for the lamps in the "GEN-FAIL",
> "CHIP-IN-OIL" and "OVER-G" lights?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott ======================== http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
> _p; generous bsp; href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=======<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c=======>
> =========
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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I personally think this has something to do with the "shower of sparks"
(Booster Coil... Whatever) system used in these aircraft. I had a very
bad problem with this exact same thing in my YAK-50, and it still is not
totally corrected, but since I use Dennis's high performance wire and
plugs, I was able to correct a lot of this by using a plug gap of .020
versus .032, or .035 However, the engine would always start when cold,
even when using a .035 plug gap and it always RAN well once started even
with that wide plug gap. This tends to infer that for some reason the
starting system is not producing enough energy to fire properly with a
hot engine and a wide plug gap. I really am not sure how much this has
to do with fuel. I was running 100% 100 Low Lead at the time. The
engine simply would not start when hot and did EXACTLY what yours did.
Outside temperature on the days this happened were also in the 90's. So
while fuel MIGHT have been involved, it sure did not have anything to do
with MO-GAS being used.
I worked on this problem a long time. I replaced the Shower of Sparks
vibrator coil with one from another YAK-50. However, it was NOT a new
one. Never-the-less, a working one. It did not help. I replaced the
high tension wire going from the coil to the mag. No help. I then
devised a way to make darn sure that the wire running from the coil to
the mag was making good contact inside the mag cap (where normally the
wire is penetrated by a sharp screw in pin. No help. I replaced the
mag rotor. No help. I then replaced the mag cap. No help. I then
put in new spark plugs gapped to .020 Problem went away... Mostly.
But it still rears it's ugly head now and again on a very hot start.
A gent from Australia (sorry I forget your name) mentioned that there is
an adjustment of the buzzer points that are internal to the shower of
sparks coil, and he is absolutely correct. I took a few apart and saw
that adjustment but did not toy with it, because I was reluctant to
change it not knowing what the exact gap is supposed to be. Since the
Shower of Sparks coils are identical in the YAK-50 and the CJ-6A models,
I wonder if Doug or anyone else has a "Task Card" that specifies what
that gap is supposed to be. Like the Australian Gent, I have a strong
feeling that this gap will make a HUGE difference in the voltage output.
Misadjustment could easily result in not enough energy to fire a really
hot engine, and I have suspected this might have been my problem all
along. I just am not sure how to test this though. Looking at the
output of a coil like that is not really simplistic, but it might be
simply a matter of trying what the other gent did, and just move it one
or two clicks and see what happens.
In any case, I don't have a definitive answer, and the matter is worth
discussing.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time
was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between
each. I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not start.
It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I
then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very low on
air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my
usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired off.
I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual
start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed
the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
couple of poi!
nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of
the plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat
cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any
other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour
trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Take a look at the points in the "shower of sparks" unit. I would
venture a guess they are pitted. If so, burnish the points with a fine
point file and test again. I do not know the correct gap, but Mark is
100% right, as usual. The gap will make a huge difference in the spark.
With the "mounding" of the points, the gap is reduced and the output of
the unit is also reduced. Clean up the points first. Then for
experimentation, adjust the gap and watch the spark "jump" from the wire
to ground. REAL easy to do on the CJ by simply removing the cover. The
wider the point gap, the bigger the spark jump....to a point. Get them
too wide and nothing will happen. I adjusted mine at one time after
burnishing the points and called the adjustment the "that looks good
adjustment" or as we say in Alabama, 'bout right!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I personally think this has something to do with the "shower of
sparks"
(Booster Coil... Whatever) system used in these aircraft. I had a
very
bad problem with this exact same thing in my YAK-50, and it still is
not
totally corrected, but since I use Dennis's high performance wire and
plugs, I was able to correct a lot of this by using a plug gap of .020
versus .032, or .035 However, the engine would always start when
cold,
even when using a .035 plug gap and it always RAN well once started
even
with that wide plug gap. This tends to infer that for some reason the
starting system is not producing enough energy to fire properly with a
hot engine and a wide plug gap. I really am not sure how much this
has
to do with fuel. I was running 100% 100 Low Lead at the time. The
engine simply would not start when hot and did EXACTLY what yours did.
Outside temperature on the days this happened were also in the 90's.
So
while fuel MIGHT have been involved, it sure did not have anything to
do
with MO-GAS being used.
I worked on this problem a long time. I replaced the Shower of Sparks
vibrator coil with one from another YAK-50. However, it was NOT a new
one. Never-the-less, a working one. It did not help. I replaced the
high tension wire going from the coil to the mag. No help. I then
devised a way to make darn sure that the wire running from the coil to
the mag was making good contact inside the mag cap (where normally the
wire is penetrated by a sharp screw in pin. No help. I replaced the
mag rotor. No help. I then replaced the mag cap. No help. I then
put in new spark plugs gapped to .020 Problem went away... Mostly.
But it still rears it's ugly head now and again on a very hot start.
A gent from Australia (sorry I forget your name) mentioned that there
is
an adjustment of the buzzer points that are internal to the shower of
sparks coil, and he is absolutely correct. I took a few apart and saw
that adjustment but did not toy with it, because I was reluctant to
change it not knowing what the exact gap is supposed to be. Since the
Shower of Sparks coils are identical in the YAK-50 and the CJ-6A
models,
I wonder if Doug or anyone else has a "Task Card" that specifies what
that gap is supposed to be. Like the Australian Gent, I have a strong
feeling that this gap will make a HUGE difference in the voltage
output.
Misadjustment could easily result in not enough energy to fire a
really
hot engine, and I have suspected this might have been my problem all
along. I just am not sure how to test this though. Looking at the
output of a coil like that is not really simplistic, but it might be
simply a matter of trying what the other gent did, and just move it
one
or two clicks and see what happens.
In any case, I don't have a definitive answer, and the matter is worth
discussing.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:33 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up
time
was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between
each. I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not start.
It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I
then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very low
on
air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my
usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired off.
I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual
start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed
the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
couple of poi!
nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of
the plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat
cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow?
Any
other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour
trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
Message 10
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Maybe there is a middle ground here. Supercharged engines are the most
at risk really, as are ones running high compression pistons, up near
10:1 or higher. There are head temperature issues, but a racecar engine
running about 9.7:1 compression ratios using aluminum heads can normally
operate with 93 octane auto fuel. However these heads have hardened
valve seats and other modifications to take care of the valve erosion
issues. The M-14P seems to be perfectly happy with a 50/50 mix of 100LL
and car gas.. And some claim it is perfectly ok using 100%. Yes, vapor
is an issue.
While there are a number of additives that claim to have TET in them, I
have to say that in this country that is doubtful. The Feds are really
serious about that stuff here and you just can not buy it over the
counter. Typically a case of false advertising. What you have in your
country Richard, I just can not say and while I am not saying you are
incorrect, I will say that I would look at such products with caution.
What they advertise is one thing, what they actually contain and what
they actually do could be something else. Just saying.
Additionally, in this country, it is now getting harder and harder to
find auto-fuel that does not contain a significant amount of Ethanol.
Say what you will (anyone) but I am scared of that stuff and have SEEN
some of the damage it can do with aircraft systems. Our FAA has
basically PROHIBITED the use of any auto fuel containing Ethanol in
aircraft, so it is obviously not a trivial concern.
An interesting side-bar discussion is the development of "Switch Grass"
fuel. A company in the U.S. claims to have developed a viable
alternative for 100LL using Switch Grass. A Bio product. We'll see,
but it is apparently a serious effort. They are test flying it now.
Since my UTVA-66 runs a GSO-480 with a little over 10 POUNDS of Blower
Boost (I pull a tad over 48" of manifold pressure on takeoff) the loss
of 100LL would basically mean the end of that engine. I'm looking at a
Walter Turbine. :-) Or maybe a really cheap sale of a nice aircraft.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:21 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Mogas etc
I would not take such as dismal view as Jan Mevis.
Clearly AvGas is a "minority" fuel, and there will be good commercial
reasons to stop producing it.
However, in the old car world in the UK, we have had the same issues,
and there are a number of products that can be bought, which actually
contain tetra-ethyl-lead. Some products contain different chemicals,
but with similar effect.
These have the same effect as lead in terms of valve-erosion etc but
also increase the octane rating. The costs are significantly less than
the current UK difference between Mogas and AvGas. However it does not
solve the potential problem of vaporisation.
Richard Goode
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Mark, where is the shower of sparks unit located? I assume it's close to
the mags? I have 5 chinese manuals, but none of them show it.
Paul
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> I personally think this has something to do with the "shower of sparks"
> (Booster Coil... Whatever) system used in these aircraft. I had a very
> bad problem with this exact same thing in my YAK-50, and it still is not
> totally corrected, but since I use Dennis's high performance wire and
> plugs, I was able to correct a lot of this by using a plug gap of .020
> versus .032, or .035 However, the engine would always start when cold,
> even when using a .035 plug gap and it always RAN well once started even
> with that wide plug gap. This tends to infer that for some reason the
> starting system is not producing enough energy to fire properly with a
> hot engine and a wide plug gap. I really am not sure how much this has
> to do with fuel. I was running 100% 100 Low Lead at the time. The
> engine simply would not start when hot and did EXACTLY what yours did.
> Outside temperature on the days this happened were also in the 90's. So
> while fuel MIGHT have been involved, it sure did not have anything to do
> with MO-GAS being used.
>
> I worked on this problem a long time. I replaced the Shower of Sparks
> vibrator coil with one from another YAK-50. However, it was NOT a new
> one. Never-the-less, a working one. It did not help. I replaced the
> high tension wire going from the coil to the mag. No help. I then
> devised a way to make darn sure that the wire running from the coil to
> the mag was making good contact inside the mag cap (where normally the
> wire is penetrated by a sharp screw in pin. No help. I replaced the
> mag rotor. No help. I then replaced the mag cap. No help. I then
> put in new spark plugs gapped to .020 Problem went away... Mostly.
> But it still rears it's ugly head now and again on a very hot start.
>
> A gent from Australia (sorry I forget your name) mentioned that there is
> an adjustment of the buzzer points that are internal to the shower of
> sparks coil, and he is absolutely correct. I took a few apart and saw
> that adjustment but did not toy with it, because I was reluctant to
> change it not knowing what the exact gap is supposed to be. Since the
> Shower of Sparks coils are identical in the YAK-50 and the CJ-6A models,
> I wonder if Doug or anyone else has a "Task Card" that specifies what
> that gap is supposed to be. Like the Australian Gent, I have a strong
> feeling that this gap will make a HUGE difference in the voltage output.
> Misadjustment could easily result in not enough energy to fire a really
> hot engine, and I have suspected this might have been my problem all
> along. I just am not sure how to test this though. Looking at the
> output of a coil like that is not really simplistic, but it might be
> simply a matter of trying what the other gent did, and just move it one
> or two clicks and see what happens.
>
> In any case, I don't have a definitive answer, and the matter is worth
> discussing.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
>
>
> Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
> parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time
> was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
> start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between
> each. I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not start.
> It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I
> then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very low on
> air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my
> usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired off.
> I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
> to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual
> start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed
> the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
> morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
> couple of poi!
> nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of
> the plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat
> cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any
> other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour
> trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Paul,
Normally on the left hand top motor mount leg, has a shielded plug wire lead
coming out of it. Have also seen them mounted on the fire wall, but always
on the left hand side.
Doug
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Paul Lewis <okanoganlew@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark, where is the shower of sparks unit located? I assume it's close to
> the mags? I have 5 chinese manuals, but none of them show it.
>
> Paul
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally think this has something to do with the "shower of sparks"
>> (Booster Coil... Whatever) system used in these aircraft. I had a very
>> bad problem with this exact same thing in my YAK-50, and it still is not
>> totally corrected, but since I use Dennis's high performance wire and
>> plugs, I was able to correct a lot of this by using a plug gap of .020
>> versus .032, or .035 However, the engine would always start when cold,
>> even when using a .035 plug gap and it always RAN well once started even
>> with that wide plug gap. This tends to infer that for some reason the
>> starting system is not producing enough energy to fire properly with a
>> hot engine and a wide plug gap. I really am not sure how much this has
>> to do with fuel. I was running 100% 100 Low Lead at the time. The
>> engine simply would not start when hot and did EXACTLY what yours did.
>> Outside temperature on the days this happened were also in the 90's. So
>> while fuel MIGHT have been involved, it sure did not have anything to do
>> with MO-GAS being used.
>>
>> I worked on this problem a long time. I replaced the Shower of Sparks
>> vibrator coil with one from another YAK-50. However, it was NOT a new
>> one. Never-the-less, a working one. It did not help. I replaced the
>> high tension wire going from the coil to the mag. No help. I then
>> devised a way to make darn sure that the wire running from the coil to
>> the mag was making good contact inside the mag cap (where normally the
>> wire is penetrated by a sharp screw in pin. No help. I replaced the
>> mag rotor. No help. I then replaced the mag cap. No help. I then
>> put in new spark plugs gapped to .020 Problem went away... Mostly.
>> But it still rears it's ugly head now and again on a very hot start.
>>
>> A gent from Australia (sorry I forget your name) mentioned that there is
>> an adjustment of the buzzer points that are internal to the shower of
>> sparks coil, and he is absolutely correct. I took a few apart and saw
>> that adjustment but did not toy with it, because I was reluctant to
>> change it not knowing what the exact gap is supposed to be. Since the
>> Shower of Sparks coils are identical in the YAK-50 and the CJ-6A models,
>> I wonder if Doug or anyone else has a "Task Card" that specifies what
>> that gap is supposed to be. Like the Australian Gent, I have a strong
>> feeling that this gap will make a HUGE difference in the voltage output.
>> Misadjustment could easily result in not enough energy to fire a really
>> hot engine, and I have suspected this might have been my problem all
>> along. I just am not sure how to test this though. Looking at the
>> output of a coil like that is not really simplistic, but it might be
>> simply a matter of trying what the other gent did, and just move it one
>> or two clicks and see what happens.
>>
>> In any case, I don't have a definitive answer, and the matter is worth
>> discussing.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:33 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
>>
>>
>> Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
>> parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time
>> was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
>> start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between
>> each. I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not start.
>> It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I
>> then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very low on
>> air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my
>> usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired off.
>> I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
>> to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual
>> start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed
>> the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
>> morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
>> couple of poi!
>> nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of
>> the plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat
>> cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any
>> other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour
>> trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
>> ilities such as List Un/Subscription,
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
It is mounted on the upper engine mount on the left side (from the
cockpit). There is a shielded wire coming from the unit to the front
cover plate of the left magneto. Look at the right mag and you will see
there is no shielded wire going to the front cover plate.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Lewis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Mark, where is the shower of sparks unit located? I assume it's close
to the mags? I have 5 chinese manuals, but none of them show it.
Paul
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I personally think this has something to do with the "shower of
sparks"
(Booster Coil... Whatever) system used in these aircraft. I had a
very
bad problem with this exact same thing in my YAK-50, and it still is
not
totally corrected, but since I use Dennis's high performance wire
and
plugs, I was able to correct a lot of this by using a plug gap of
.020
versus .032, or .035 However, the engine would always start when
cold,
even when using a .035 plug gap and it always RAN well once started
even
with that wide plug gap. This tends to infer that for some reason
the
starting system is not producing enough energy to fire properly with
a
hot engine and a wide plug gap. I really am not sure how much this
has
to do with fuel. I was running 100% 100 Low Lead at the time. The
engine simply would not start when hot and did EXACTLY what yours
did.
Outside temperature on the days this happened were also in the 90's.
So
while fuel MIGHT have been involved, it sure did not have anything
to do
with MO-GAS being used.
I worked on this problem a long time. I replaced the Shower of
Sparks
vibrator coil with one from another YAK-50. However, it was NOT a
new
one. Never-the-less, a working one. It did not help. I replaced
the
high tension wire going from the coil to the mag. No help. I then
devised a way to make darn sure that the wire running from the coil
to
the mag was making good contact inside the mag cap (where normally
the
wire is penetrated by a sharp screw in pin. No help. I replaced
the
mag rotor. No help. I then replaced the mag cap. No help. I
then
put in new spark plugs gapped to .020 Problem went away... Mostly.
But it still rears it's ugly head now and again on a very hot start.
A gent from Australia (sorry I forget your name) mentioned that
there is
an adjustment of the buzzer points that are internal to the shower
of
sparks coil, and he is absolutely correct. I took a few apart and
saw
that adjustment but did not toy with it, because I was reluctant to
change it not knowing what the exact gap is supposed to be. Since
the
Shower of Sparks coils are identical in the YAK-50 and the CJ-6A
models,
I wonder if Doug or anyone else has a "Task Card" that specifies
what
that gap is supposed to be. Like the Australian Gent, I have a
strong
feeling that this gap will make a HUGE difference in the voltage
output.
Misadjustment could easily result in not enough energy to fire a
really
hot engine, and I have suspected this might have been my problem all
along. I just am not sure how to test this though. Looking at the
output of a coil like that is not really simplistic, but it might be
simply a matter of trying what the other gent did, and just move it
one
or two clicks and see what happens.
In any case, I don't have a definitive answer, and the matter is
worth
discussing.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan
Lew
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:33 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
<vplewis@community.org>
Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up
time
was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between
each. I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not
start.
It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I
then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very
low on
air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my
usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired
off.
I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again
scheduled
to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual
start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I
primed
the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
couple of poi!
nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side
of
the plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat
cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow?
Any
other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour
trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
ilities such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 14
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Okanogan,
Don't know what the CJ procedure for starting the engine when it is hot but
the YAK calls for a couple of strokes of prime to start when the temp is
over 90 degrees (35 -37 C). I do not have my 42 manual close buy but
remember it called for less prime than the 6 in winter. I personally prime
first then pull 4 blades stopping on a compression stroke (I assume that
with increase in resistance to advance the blade). Is it possible that you
have over primed?
Next time this happens open your intake drain if you have one in place to
see how much fuel drains out.
We had (have) temps in Alabama now constantly in the high 90's F. and I have
not had an issue starting the 52. I had a different issue with the 50
starting but it had nothing to do with fuel vapor pressure or the electrical
system. It has more to do with leaking air around the base of a couple of my
air injectors. At least I think it was that so far.
I am running 100 LL too.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show & parked
the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time was noon.
By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard start-up routine,
which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between each. I hit the start &
the engine turned over, but would not start. It didn't even fire. I gave
it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I then gave it about 5 primes & still
nothing. By then, I was very low on air & gave up. The next morning about
0700 I tried it again with my usual start-up routine & the blade turned
about a half & it fired off. I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down.
We were again scheduled to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I
did my usual start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I
primed the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A couple
of poi!
nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of the
plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat cased a
vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any other
thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour trip home.
Thanks in advance for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Paul
Look in your manual Figure 11-12
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306397#306397
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cj_167_112.jpg
Message 16
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Mark,
I am sure that there was a factory gap that produced a robust ignition spark
when this " shower of sparks" was a new part .
That said , I am not going to instruct a person with your background on
thedeviation of such old parts andhow that now that
may be a mismatch with the original factory gap specs .
I found that if I activated the"shower of sparks"andduringthis timeadjusted
the gapI was able to visually achieve a spark that was much brighter than
what I started with .
This dramatically improvedmy warm weather start problem .
Not very scientificwithouta proper scope but it worked .
I must give credit to Garry Pope who put me on to this fix.
Terry Lewis
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Your problem is simple. It is pretty severe over priming.
You are trying to fire up a air/fuel mixture with a ratio of maybe 3:1 (?)
instead of about 14:1. You are also washing the cylinder walls of oil which
is already thinned out by the high temperature and increasing the
possibility of hydraulic lock with excess fuel.
In the conditions you describe I use 1 or 2 shots after filling the primer
for the Huosai and the M14P. Works every time. For the R1340 I use 1/2
shot after filling the primer (large barrel type).
In addition I never pull the prop through while priming. I put that in the
same category as Russian roulette. If you have a failed mag. switch, a
disconnected or a broken "P"
lead you have a live mag. and are flirting with disaster.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Okanogan Lew" <vplewis@community.org>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:32 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
>
> Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
> parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time
> was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
> start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between each.
> I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not start. It didn't
> even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I then gave it
> about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very low on air & gave up.
> The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my usual start-up
> routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired off. I ran it for
> about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled to fly at noon &
> by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual start-up & again it would
> turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed the hell out of it & still
> nothing. Finally gave up again. This morning, it started with the usual
> start up routine. Go Figure!! A couple of poi!
> nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of the
> plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat cased a
> vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any other
> thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour trip home.
> Thanks in advance for an info.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Thanks Walt, I posed the overpriming question to the Yak List a while back &
was told that the priming mixture went into the super charger & wouldn't
wash down the cyclinders. Was that bad info?
Paul
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>
> Your problem is simple. It is pretty severe over priming.
> You are trying to fire up a air/fuel mixture with a ratio of maybe 3:1 (?)
> instead of about 14:1. You are also washing the cylinder walls of oil which
> is already thinned out by the high temperature and increasing the
> possibility of hydraulic lock with excess fuel.
>
> In the conditions you describe I use 1 or 2 shots after filling the primer
> for the Huosai and the M14P. Works every time. For the R1340 I use 1/2
> shot after filling the primer (large barrel type).
>
> In addition I never pull the prop through while priming. I put that in the
> same category as Russian roulette. If you have a failed mag. switch, a
> disconnected or a broken "P"
> lead you have a live mag. and are flirting with disaster.
>
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Okanogan Lew" <vplewis@community.org>
>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:32 AM
>
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
>
>
>>
>> Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
>> parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time was
>> noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard start-up
>> routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between each. I hit the
>> start & the engine turned over, but would not start. It didn't even fire.
>> I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I then gave it about 5 primes
>> & still nothing. By then, I was very low on air & gave up. The next morning
>> about 0700 I tried it again with my usual start-up routine & the blade
>> turned about a half & it fired off. I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it
>> down. We were again scheduled to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid
>> 90's. I did my usual start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even
>> fire. I primed the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again.
>> This morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
>> couple of poi!
>> nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of the
>> plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat cased a
>> vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any other
>> thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour trip home.
>> Thanks in advance for an info.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Paul;
The reason for that is simply that it is not a 'shower of sparks" system.
The subject has been discussed ad infinitum on this list but of course makes no
difference.
In our lexicon it is a "start boost coil". In the CJ6 manuals it is a "starting
ignition coil". The P/N is DH-2, it is located on the LH firewall readily identified
by the HT lead to the LH mag.
It is an absolutely exact copy of the original Bendix/Scintilla
unit from the 1940's.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Lewis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Mark, where is the shower of sparks unit located? I assume it's close to the
mags? I have 5 chinese manuals, but none of them show it.
Paul
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
I personally think this has something to do with the "shower of sparks"
(Booster Coil... Whatever) system used in these aircraft. I had a very
bad problem with this exact same thing in my YAK-50, and it still is not
totally corrected, but since I use Dennis's high performance wire and
plugs, I was able to correct a lot of this by using a plug gap of .020
versus .032, or .035 However, the engine would always start when cold,
even when using a .035 plug gap and it always RAN well once started even
with that wide plug gap. This tends to infer that for some reason the
starting system is not producing enough energy to fire properly with a
hot engine and a wide plug gap. I really am not sure how much this has
to do with fuel. I was running 100% 100 Low Lead at the time. The
engine simply would not start when hot and did EXACTLY what yours did.
Outside temperature on the days this happened were also in the 90's. So
while fuel MIGHT have been involved, it sure did not have anything to do
with MO-GAS being used.
I worked on this problem a long time. I replaced the Shower of Sparks
vibrator coil with one from another YAK-50. However, it was NOT a new
one. Never-the-less, a working one. It did not help. I replaced the
high tension wire going from the coil to the mag. No help. I then
devised a way to make darn sure that the wire running from the coil to
the mag was making good contact inside the mag cap (where normally the
wire is penetrated by a sharp screw in pin. No help. I replaced the
mag rotor. No help. I then replaced the mag cap. No help. I then
put in new spark plugs gapped to .020 Problem went away... Mostly.
But it still rears it's ugly head now and again on a very hot start.
A gent from Australia (sorry I forget your name) mentioned that there is
an adjustment of the buzzer points that are internal to the shower of
sparks coil, and he is absolutely correct. I took a few apart and saw
that adjustment but did not toy with it, because I was reluctant to
change it not knowing what the exact gap is supposed to be. Since the
Shower of Sparks coils are identical in the YAK-50 and the CJ-6A models,
I wonder if Doug or anyone else has a "Task Card" that specifies what
that gap is supposed to be. Like the Australian Gent, I have a strong
feeling that this gap will make a HUGE difference in the voltage output.
Misadjustment could easily result in not enough energy to fire a really
hot engine, and I have suspected this might have been my problem all
along. I just am not sure how to test this though. Looking at the
output of a coil like that is not really simplistic, but it might be
simply a matter of trying what the other gent did, and just move it one
or two clicks and see what happens.
In any case, I don't have a definitive answer, and the matter is worth
discussing.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:33 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show &
parked the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time
was noon. By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard
start-up routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between
each. I hit the start & the engine turned over, but would not start.
It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing. I
then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing. By then, I was very low on
air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my
usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it fired off.
I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual
start-up & again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed
the hell out of it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This
morning, it started with the usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A
couple of poi!
nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of
the plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat
cased a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any
other thoughts? I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour
trip home. Thanks in advance for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
ilities such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Paul;
That is true and is surely slightly less of a hazard than direct - to cylinder
priming. Depends on how much fuel and evaporation time. As soon as engine rotation
starts the destination is the cylinders with the blower turning at 7.87:1
for the Huosai.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Lewis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Thanks Walt, I posed the overpriming question to the Yak List a while back &
was told that the priming mixture went into the super charger & wouldn't wash
down the cyclinders. Was that bad info?
Paul
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
Your problem is simple. It is pretty severe over priming.
You are trying to fire up a air/fuel mixture with a ratio of maybe 3:1 (?)
instead of about 14:1. You are also washing the cylinder walls of oil which is
already thinned out by the high temperature and increasing the possibility of
hydraulic lock with excess fuel.
In the conditions you describe I use 1 or 2 shots after filling the primer
for the Huosai and the M14P. Works every time. For the R1340 I use 1/2 shot
after filling the primer (large barrel type).
In addition I never pull the prop through while priming. I put that in the
same category as Russian roulette. If you have a failed mag. switch, a disconnected
or a broken "P"
lead you have a live mag. and are flirting with disaster.
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: "Okanogan Lew" <vplewis@community.org>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:32 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Hey guys, I got one for you. I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show & parked
the CJ. The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time was noon.
By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard start-up routine, which
is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between each. I hit the start & the
engine turned over, but would not start. It didn't even fire. I gave it 3 more
primes, but still nothing. I then gave it about 5 primes & still nothing.
By then, I was very low on air & gave up. The next morning about 0700 I tried
it again with my usual start-up routine & the blade turned about a half & it
fired off. I ran it for about 15 minutes & shut it down. We were again scheduled
to fly at noon & by then it was in the mid 90's. I did my usual start-up
& again it would turn over, but wouldn't even fire. I primed the hell out of
it & still nothing. Finally gave up again. This morning, it started with the
usual start up routine. Go Figure!! A couple of
poi!
nts. I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks. The right side of the
plane (primer side) was facing the sun. Do you think the heat cased a vapor
lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow? Any other thoughts? I
have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour trip home. Thanks in advance
for an info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
ties such as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 21
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| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Hot Starts |
Walt,
-
What do you mean by "after filling the primer?"
--- On Tue, 7/27/10, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
Your problem is simple. It is pretty severe over priming.
You are trying to fire up a air/fuel mixture with a ratio of maybe 3:1 (?)
instead of about 14:1.- You are also washing the cylinder walls of oil wh
ich is already thinned out by the high temperature and increasing the possi
bility of hydraulic lock with excess fuel.
In the conditions you describe I use 1 or 2 shots after filling the primer
for the Huosai and the M14P.- Works every time.- For the R1340 I use 1/
2 shot after filling the primer (large barrel type).
In addition I never pull the prop through while priming.- I put that in t
he same category as Russian roulette.- If you have a failed mag. switch,
a disconnected or a broken "P"
lead you have a live mag. and are flirting with disaster.
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: "Okanogan Lew" <vplewis@community.org>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:32 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Hot Starts
>
> Hey guys, I got one for you.- I flew into Fairchild AFB for a show & pa
rked the CJ.- The next day we were to fly in the show & start up time was
noon.- By then it was about 90 degrees & I preformed my standard start-u
p routine, which is 5 primes with a pull of the blade between each. I hit t
he start & the engine turned over,- but would not start.- It didn't eve
n fire.- I gave it 3 more primes, but still nothing.- I then gave it ab
out 5 primes & still nothing.- By then, I was very low on air & gave up.
The next morning about 0700 I tried it again with my usual start-up routine
& the blade turned about a half & it fired off.- I ran it for about 15 m
inutes & shut it down.- We were again scheduled to fly at noon & by then
it was in the mid 90's.- I did my usual start-up & again it would turn ov
er, but wouldn't even fire.- I primed the hell out of it & still nothing.
- Finally gave up again.- This morning, it started with the usual start
up
routine.- Go Figure!!- A couple of poi!
> nts.- I had 1/2 car gas & 1/2 av gas in the tanks.- The right side of
the plane (primer side)- was facing the sun.- Do you think the heat ca
sed a vapor lock in the primer tube & was blocking the fuel flow?- Any ot
her thoughts?- I have the 285 HP engine & it ran fine for the hour trip h
ome. Thanks in advance for an info.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306346#306346
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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