Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (Roger Kemp M.D.)
2. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Starter sequence M14 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE: Starter sequence M14 |
Woodka Friday.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:28 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
GDay all
Thank you all for your help. The fault has finally been isolated and
fixed .
All of the advice had been used, but to no avail. As I said originally,
this
is a new engine, so we were really frustrated in that doing everything
by
the book, it would still turn a few pots and then oscillate. Problem was
eventually traced back to incorrect factory installation of two lines
from
the spider valve being installed on the incorrect cylinders. Who would
have
thought the Russians could make that mistake. Friday built engine? I
hope
everything else inside was put together by someone else!
Thanks again
Bill
_____
From: yakplt@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
Dennis, it looks like my "translation" version on CD missed a step.
Sorry
about that Bill. But, seriously, being off 4 degrees should not cause
that
darn thing not to even spin at all.
Bill, ... Dennis said: "There is an inner and an outer hole in the air
distributor slider."
Did you catch that?
Mark
--- On Sat, 7/17/10, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
According to the Task Card 204 in the M14 manual, the correct procedure
is
to first position the engine at 12 degrees after TDC on the #4 cylinder.
Then rotate the prop in its normal direction back to 8 degrees after
TDC.
This is where you set the air distributor. The instructions in task
card
204 say at this point to set the slide to where the inner hole opens for
1
mm. There is an inner and an outer hole in the air distributor slider.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Lang
<http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billlang@live.com.au>
<http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yak-list@matronics.com>
; Tim
Windsor
<http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fly@topredwarbirds.com.au
> ;
Milton
<http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jstace01@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:18 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
SITREP
12 Degrees off no 4 pot all set. Zero rotation, just a loud POP of air
as
the starter is pushed. Pull started and ran it for half hour. Expecting
some
rotation with starter, but still the POP of air not turning anything.
Very frustrating!!
What is encouraging is that the movement of the spider valve is
definitely
effecting the prop movement on start.
8 degrees seemed the best, so will fiddle around there maybe.
The Aussie with the 18T and box of matches might like to come over to
Cessnock and do an overnight stocktake for me
Any One Bueller?
Anyone?
Bill
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:13:19 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> That info was pulled from a direct translation of the M-14 manual
written
the folks who made the engine.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 7:17 PM
> To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
> Mark
>
> No worries. Thank you for your efforts , and we will perservere with
this
thing. Nothing cannot be fixed, eventually. Your information is indeed
different to what we had been told, so we will concentrate on around 12
degrees.
>
> Cheers
>
> Bill
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:39:26 -0700
> From: yakplt@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Again Bill, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.
Personally,
I have to tell you that I enjoyed Australia more than any place I have
ever
been in my life, and that includes a whole lot of places. I was up in
Nowra
and made friends with a lot of wonderful folks, so the last thing I want
to
do is be a wise-ass to a person who lives in a place I'd like to come
back
and visit!
>
> The air distributor is set very much like when timing the mags. You
want
to set the engine to 12 degrees after top dead center referencing the
master
cylinder, which is of course cylinder number 4. Again, set the engine to
12
degrees AFTER top dead center on cylinder number four!
>
> Now adjust the the air distributor so that the slide valve will open
the
supply of air to the number four cylinder by 1 mm.
>
> That's the best I can do to help you. I hope it is enough.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 7/10/10, Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> To: "Yak List" <yak-list@matronics.com>, "Tim Windsor"
<fly@topredwarbirds.com.au>
> Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 8:09 AM
>
>
> Thanks Mark,
>
> Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my
budget.
>
> I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle directly to
the
spider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into the
spider at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all
components as we try and turn the engine over, and eliminate in all
cases
any potential problems upstream.
>
> Bill
>
> Still in need of ideas
>
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> > When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad, the
prop
will tend to move a little bit, sometimes actually rotate backwards, and
then stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to
me
like exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting
this
thing is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix
it
for you!
> >
> > I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for
hours, and for them, it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
> >
> > If your mechanic can not do it, I am guessing you are going to have
to
hire someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir
Yastremski,
or Dennis.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed
around
with the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach
generator
off, or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that
if
they have, there is a gear missing from inside that assy, that actually
turns the air starting distributor. In other words, make darn sure the
air-distributor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:45 AM
> > To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> > Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> >
> >
> > Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P
starter
to start my M14P
> >
> > Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have
provided. We
have tried several settings on the starter spider, but to no success.
The
prop turns a few pots, quite slowly it seems, but then stops or
=F6scillates,
or blows air out the exhaust
> >
> > We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the
spider,
eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4, 6 8 12 degrees and
still the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and
is
NEW, with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this
engine.
We are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the spider is
very time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
> >
> > Once the engine is warm, the engine (I am told) started first go
WITH
the air starter. Now this may be because;
> >
> > 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> > 2. maybe on a cold engine, valves are sticking cold, and are freed
once
warmed. but
> >
> > Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required
compression limits
> >
> > Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold
engine
and still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to
throw
in a red herring
> >
> > We are stumped
> >
> > Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most
welcome
> >
> > Helpppp!!
> >
> > Bill
> >
.........................................................................
...
.........................................................................
...
.......
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> >
> > Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees, for M14P 8 degrees, both on #4
cylinder after TDC.
> >
> >
> > Gill
> >
> >
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Lang
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:38 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> > The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if
anyone
knows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the spider
at,
or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manual
are
a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
> >
> > If you have access to a Housai manual, it provides better
instructions
as it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have
reset
mine twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
> >
> >
> > Gill
> >
> >
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak
Pilot
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:50 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> > GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
> >
> >
> > Let me run my mouth one last time. First, adjusting this thing is a
real
pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove it,
it
requires you to get the engine set up perfectly, and then insert the
thing
back in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it twice,
and
it was a real ass kicker.
> >
> >
> > Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that
you
know this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start
trying to re-adjust it. Once you remove it, you have no choice but to
finish
the job.
> >
> >
> > I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air
system will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
> >
> >
> > Yes, it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past,
and
just could never get it right again, and this is what you have wrong
now.
(I.E.
> > A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your
problem, but as a Tech Rep, my mind always considers the alternatives
and
you can never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good".
That
said, if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low, it will do the exact same
thing
you are now reporting.
> >
> >
> > That said, if I was there, I would take my nitrogen bottle with a
good
regulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air
distributor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when
I
turned it on. If the engine does the exact same thing, then you are sure
that the distributor is the problem. However, if the engine spins right
around perfectly, then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT
IS
NOT THE AIR DISTRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of
work.
> >
> >
> > Consider this advice carefully.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Bill Lang wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Bill Lang
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 7:12 PM
> >
> > Mark
> > Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint
Manual, task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bill
> >
> > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > MALS-14 64E"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> > >
> > > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY
EXACTING!
> > >
> > > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth
that
> > > has to be JUST right.
> > >
> > > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly, I believe he
has
> > > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in
the
> > > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web
site.
> > > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> > >
> > > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180
degrees,
> > > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions, I have seen people mess with
> > > this thing for days. DAYS!
> > >
> > > Just FYI, the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up, it not only
puts
> > > air into one cylinder to push the piston down, it also sends air
to
> > > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any
oil
> > > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > > PERFECTLY to the engine, just like the ignition distributor on
your
> > > car, or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on
the
> > > net, but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> > >
> > > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you, or
have
> > > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about
messing
> > > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and
understand
> > > them perfectly.
> > >
> > > Mark Bitterlich
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Lang
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:30 AM
> > > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was
installed.
> > > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into
the
> > > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start, and then air appears
to
> > > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns
backwards.
> > > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem
and
found a fix.
> > > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> > >
> > > Taa
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to
li======================
> &g===============
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> /direct/01/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Browse profiles for FREE!
>
>
> =nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Meet local
single=================
>
>
>
_____
Meet local singles online.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhre
f="ht
tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Starter sequence M14 |
Bill,
I got a brand new engine from the factory that had a scraper ring where th
e
oil ring should have been on #3 cylinder. It worked for 438 hours!
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 8/1/2010 11:30:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billlang@live.com.au writes:
GDay all
Thank you all for your help. The fault has finally been isolated and fixe
d
. All of the advice had been used, but to no avail. As I said originally,
this is a new engine, so we were really frustrated in that doing everythi
ng
by the book, it would still turn a few pots and then oscillate. Problem
was eventually traced back to incorrect factory installation of two lines
from the spider valve being installed on the incorrect cylinders. Who wou
ld
have thought the Russians could make that mistake. Friday built engine?
I
hope everything else inside was put together by someone else!
Thanks again
Bill
____________________________________
From: yakplt@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
Dennis, it looks like my "translation" version on CD missed a step. Sorr
y
about that Bill. But, seriously, being off 4 degrees should not cause
that darn thing not to even spin at all.
Bill, ... Dennis said: "There is an inner and an outer hole in the air
distributor slider."
Did you catch that?
Mark
--- On Sat, 7/17/10, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
According to the Task Card 204 in the M14 manual, the correct procedure
is
to first position the engine at 12 degrees after TDC on the #4 cylinder.
Then rotate the prop in its normal direction back to 8 degrees after TDC.
This is where you set the air distributor. The instructions in task card
204 say at this point to set the slide to where the inner hole opens for
1
mm. There is an inner and an outer hole in the air distributor slider.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: _Bill Lang_
(http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billlang@live.com.au)
(http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yak-list@matronics.com)
; _Tim Windsor_
(http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fly@topredwarbirds.com.au)
; _Milton_
(http://us.mc507.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jstace01@hotmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:18 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
SITREP
12 Degrees off no 4 pot all set. Zero rotation, just a loud POP of air as
the starter is pushed. Pull started and ran it for half hour. Expecting
some rotation with starter, but still the POP of air not turning anythin
g.
Very frustrating!!
What is encouraging is that the movement of the spider valve is definitel
y
effecting the prop movement on start.
8 degrees seemed the best, so will fiddle around there maybe.
The Aussie with the 18T and box of matches might like to come over to
Cessnock and do an overnight stocktake for me
Any One Bueller?
Anyone?
Bill
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:13:19 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> That info was pulled from a direct translation of the M-14 manual
written the folks who made the engine.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 7:17 PM
> To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
>
> Mark
>
> No worries. Thank you for your efforts , and we will perservere with
this thing. Nothing cannot be fixed, eventually. Your information is inde
ed
different to what we had been told, so we will concentrate on around 12
degrees.
>
> Cheers
>
> Bill
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:39:26 -0700
> From: yakplt@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Again Bill, sorry for assuming you were in the United States.
Personally, I have to tell you that I enjoyed Australia more than any pla
ce I have
ever been in my life, and that includes a whole lot of places. I was up
in
Nowra and made friends with a lot of wonderful folks, so the last thing
I
want to do is be a wise-ass to a person who lives in a place I'd like to
come
back and visit!
>
> The air distributor is set very much like when timing the mags. You wan
t
to set the engine to 12 degrees after top dead center referencing the
master cylinder, which is of course cylinder number 4. Again, set the eng
ine to
12 degrees AFTER top dead center on cylinder number four!
>
> Now adjust the the air distributor so that the slide valve will open th
e
supply of air to the number four cylinder by 1 mm.
>
> That's the best I can do to help you. I hope it is enough.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 7/10/10, Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Bill Lang <billlang@live.com.au>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> To: "Yak List" <yak-list@matronics.com>, "Tim Windsor"
<fly@topredwarbirds.com.au>
> Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 8:09 AM
>
>
> Thanks Mark,
>
> Unfortunately getting Vlad or Dennis to Sydney is a bit beyond my
budget.
>
> I think our next move will be to rig the Scuba air bottle directly to
the spider valve and make small adjustments and port air directly into th
e
spider at each correction. That at least will save reassembly of all
components as we try and turn the engine over, and eliminate in all cases
any
potential problems upstream.
>
> Bill
>
> Still in need of ideas
>
>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0400
> > From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> > When the air-distributor is out of alignment or actually bad, the
prop will tend to move a little bit, sometimes actually rotate backwards,
and
then stop and oscillate with air coming out the exhaust. This sounds to
me
like exactly what is happening to you. It was mentioned that adjusting th
is
thing is "no big deal". You need to hire that person and have them fix it
for you!
> >
> > I have seen three Russian mechanics flail around with this thing for
hours, and for them, it was indeed quite a BIG deal.
> >
> > If your mechanic can not do it, I am guessing you are going to have
to
hire someone to come out and do it for you. Recommend Vladimir Yastremski
,
or Dennis.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. One other really long shot possibility. Has ANYONE messed around
with the Tach Generator timing housing? Have they taken the tach generat
or
off, or messed around inside of that area? It is remotely possible that
if
they have, there is a gear missing from inside that assy, that actually
turns the air starting distributor. In other words, make darn sure the
air-distributor is actually TURNING when you turn the prop by hand.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lang
> > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:45 AM
> > To: Yak List; Tim Windsor
> > Subject: Yak-List: RE: Starter sequence M14
> >
> >
> > Pleading to anybody with detailed advice on how to get my M14P
starter to start my M14P
> >
> > Below is the correspondence so far that you good folks have provided.
We have tried several settings on the starter spider, but to no success.
The prop turns a few pots, quite slowly it seems, but then stops or
=F6scillates, or blows air out the exhaust
> >
> > We have access to plenty of air. We have tried direct air to the
spider, eliminating all upstream equipment. We have tried 4, 6 8 12 degre
es and
still the prop waffles around. The engine starts first pull manually and
is NEW, with only 50 hours on it. The starter has never worked on this
engine. We are now driven to distraction as a change in setting of the sp
ider is
very time consuming as you may know. Any thoughts?
> >
> > Once the engine is warm, the engine (I am told) started first go WITH
the air starter. Now this may be because;
> >
> > 1. engine warm and very easy to start on first rotation or
> > 2. maybe on a cold engine, valves are sticking cold, and are freed
once warmed. but
> >
> > Mechanic has done cold compression test and all pots exceed required
compression limits
> >
> > Just a tought but is it possible for valves to stick on a cold engine
and still show good compression on a compression test? I don't want to
throw in a red herring
> >
> > We are stumped
> >
> > Any thoughts suggestions instructions (any from left field) most
welcome
> >
> > Helpppp!!
> >
> > Bill
> >
..........................................................................
........................................................................
.............
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> >
> > Prop degrees for Housai is 9 degrees, for M14P 8 degrees, both on #4
cylinder after TDC.
> >
> >
> > Gill
> >
> >
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill La
ng
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:38 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> > The mechanic is working on the spider now. He asked me to ask if
anyone knows the number of degrees of prop rotation from TDC to set the
spider
at, or any other advice for setting it. The instuctions from the M14 manu
al
are a bit ambiguous. (no access to Housai Manual)
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: gill.g(at)gpimail.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:54:17 -0700
> >
> > If you have access to a Housai manual, it provides better instruction
s
as it has a diagram. The difference relates to prop gearing. I have reset
mine twice after engine disassembly and it's not a big deal.
> >
> >
> > Gill
> >
> >
> > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pil
ot
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:50 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> >
> >
> > GOOD FOR YOU! Good job in finding the proper task cards!
> >
> >
> > Let me run my mouth one last time. First, adjusting this thing is a
real pain in the ass. It is hard to get to the nuts and stuff to remove
it,
it requires you to get the engine set up perfectly, and then insert the
thing back in and tighten it down. I have been involved in adjusting it
twice,
and it was a real ass kicker.
> >
> >
> > Next... make darn sure... let me correct that: MAKE DAMN SURE that yo
u
know this is the problem before you remove it from the engine and start
trying to re-adjust it. Once you remove it, you have no choice but to fin
ish
the job.
> >
> >
> > I am not kidding when I tell you that a flow restriction in the air
system will cause the exact same problem that you are reporting.
> >
> >
> > Yes, it is most likely that someone messed with this in the past, an
d
just could never get it right again, and this is what you have wrong now.
(I.E.
> > A misadjusted Air Distributor) The odds are good that this is your
problem, but as a Tech Rep, my mind always considers the alternatives and
you
can never rule out ANYTHING unless you verify it as a "known good". That
said, if your AIR FLOW to this unit is low, it will do the exact same thi
ng
you are now reporting.
> >
> >
> > That said, if I was there, I would take my nitrogen bottle with a goo
d
regulator and would connect it DIRECTLY to the line going to the air
distributor and would set it to 730 PSI and would see what happened when
I
turned it on. If the engine does the exact same thing, then you are sure
that
the distributor is the problem. However, if the engine spins right around
perfectly, then you can STOP RIGHT THERE and say "BOY OH BOY IT IS NOT TH
E
AIR DISTRIBUTOR" and you have saved yourself one HUGE amount of work.
> >
> >
> > Consider this advice carefully.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Bill Lang wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Bill Lang
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 7:12 PM
> >
> > Mark
> > Further to my last.. found the ref on George's web site M14 maint
Manual, task card 204. Hope my guy can do it.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bill
> >
> > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:53:38 -0400
> > > From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil
> > > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > MALS-14 64E"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > MOST LIKELY: Your air distributor is out of alignment.
> > >
> > > This is a tedious and exacting job. VERY TEDIOUS AND VERY EXACTING!
> > >
> > > There is a little gear in there with many little itsy tiny teeth
that
> > > has to be JUST right.
> > >
> > > I would suggest you contact Dennis Savarese directly, I believe he
has
> > > the procedure written out and ready to send. It is addressed in th
e
> > > maint. Cards for the engine. It might also be at George Coy's web
site.
> > > His site is also a wealth of knowledge.
> > >
> > > It is much MUCH more complicated than just spinning it 180 degrees,
> > > SAD TO SAY! Without the instructions, I have seen people mess with
> > > this thing for days. DAYS!
> > >
> > > Just FYI, the thing does more than just put air into a cylinder to
> > > make the piston move. When it is perfectly set up, it not only puts
> > > air into one cylinder to push the piston down, it also sends air to
> > > the lower cylinders WITH THE EXHAUST VALVES OPEN to help push any
oil
> > > that is in there right out the exhaust. But it has to be timed
> > > PERFECTLY to the engine, just like the ignition distributor on you
r
> > > car, or the mag on your airplane. Please excuse the language on the
> > > net, but it is a real SOB to adjust.
> > >
> > > I am sorry that I do not have the instructions to give you, or have
> > > them memorized... But I will tell you to not even think about
messing
> > > with it until you have the instructions fully in hand and understan
d
> > > them perfectly.
> > >
> > > Mark Bitterlich
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Lang
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:30 AM
> > > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Starter Sequence?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > > Technical advice needed ref starter. I have just purchesed a Yak52
> > > that has apparently had a starter problem since a new engine was
installed.
> > > It seems that there is a sequencing problem of the air going into
the
> > > cylinders. It turns a few degrees on start, and then air appears to
> > > blow straight through the cylinder to exhaust. Sometimes it turns
backwards.
> > > Would it be possible to install the starter spider 180 out? My
> > > mechanic and I would appreciate if anyone has faced this problem an
d
found a fix.
> > > Is there a mark on the spider or foolproof way of installing the
> > > spider that was overlooked by the original mechanics
> > >
> > > Taa
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > /157631292/direct/01/' target='_new'>Need a new place to
li======================
> &g===============
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> /direct/01/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Browse profiles for FREE!
>
>
> =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Meet local single=================
>
>
>
____________________________________
Meet local singles online.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|