Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:19 AM - Re: Compression (Hans Oortman)
2. 06:38 AM - Re: Compression (George Coy)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Oil, again (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: Re:Magneto Drop (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 07:39 AM - Re: Compression (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Oil, again (Eric Wobschall)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: Compression (Roger Kemp M.D.)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Oil, again (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Oil, again (Eric Wobschall)
10. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Oil, again (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 10:50 AM - Re: Compression (adrian hale)
12. 12:29 PM - Re: Compression (Hans Oortman)
13. 12:36 PM - Re: Compression (Hans Oortman)
14. 04:40 PM - Re: Compression (Yak Pilot)
15. 09:17 PM - Re: Compression (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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Mark,
You know how it goes; I want to have an answer sooner and quicker than those
mechanics can work.....
Yeah...I have a very good mechanic(s) working on it. The valves have been
checked a year and a halve ago and nothing was found wrong.
Cilinders 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 have no compression left. The air seems to get
out via the exhaust valve, you can hear the hissing.....but the thing that
bothers me really is: why 5 cilinders at the same time???
It could or can only(?)be a common thing to all those five cilinders?? If
that is the case it can not be the individual exhaust valve.
The only reasons I can come up with are:
1. Fuel....too lean...but this should have an effect on the cilinder head
temp which has never been in the red zone at all.
2. The air start system...something in the "spider", may be....
I'll keep you all informed on the progress the mechanics are making. They
promised me to send some pictures as well...
W'll keep you posted.
Hans
Op 05-09-10 02:09, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> The question I would ask is:
>
> How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
>
> Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking valves.
> But are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPRESSION?
> Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
>
> One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash and
> tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
> fully close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn quickly.
>
> Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a bore-scope
> and LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring and
> look at the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
>
> When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting in
> there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake? A good
> mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on. Just saying:
> "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might want to
> consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing. I am
> not a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics, and you
> should not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or anyone
> else) minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell you.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
>
>> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
>> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>
>> Yakkers,
>>
>> The engine
>> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
>> repaired in Lithuania.
>> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
>> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
>> checked regularly
>> up to this moment.
>> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>>
>> Hans Oortman
>> YAK52 RA3326K
>> Netherlands
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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How often was the engine Run?
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
Mark,
You know how it goes; I want to have an answer sooner and quicker than those
mechanics can work.....
Yeah...I have a very good mechanic(s) working on it. The valves have been
checked a year and a halve ago and nothing was found wrong.
Cilinders 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 have no compression left. The air seems to get
out via the exhaust valve, you can hear the hissing.....but the thing that
bothers me really is: why 5 cilinders at the same time???
It could or can only(?)be a common thing to all those five cilinders?? If
that is the case it can not be the individual exhaust valve.
The only reasons I can come up with are:
1. Fuel....too lean...but this should have an effect on the cilinder head
temp which has never been in the red zone at all.
2. The air start system...something in the "spider", may be....
I'll keep you all informed on the progress the mechanics are making. They
promised me to send some pictures as well...
W'll keep you posted.
Hans
Op 05-09-10 02:09, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> The question I would ask is:
>
> How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
>
> Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking
valves.
> But are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO
COMPRESSION?
> Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
>
> One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash and
> tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
> fully close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn
quickly.
>
> Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a
bore-scope
> and LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring
and
> look at the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
>
> When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting
in
> there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake? A
good
> mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on. Just
saying:
> "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might
want to
> consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing. I
am
> not a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics, and
you
> should not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or
anyone
> else) minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell
you.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
>
>> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
>> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>
>> Yakkers,
>>
>> The engine
>> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
>> repaired in Lithuania.
>> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
>> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
>> checked regularly
>> up to this moment.
>> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>>
>> Hans Oortman
>> YAK52 RA3326K
>> Netherlands
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Eric,
Could you please describe the "pop off valve" in the M14 that is
affected by multi-grade oils?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Wobschall
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
<eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Francois:
DO NOT use the multi-grade oils intended for flat engines. There is
usually an additive in there that screws up various M-14P items like
the pop-off valve.
In the absence of the radial-engine specific oil, use the 100 or 120
(SAE 50 or 60) for break in (50 hours) and the W100 or 120 (AD)
thereafter.
Have a great weekend. -Eric
On Sep 4, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Francois Davel wrote:
> <fdavel@senninger.com>
>
> Thanks Eric
>
> Here in South Africa, we do not get the Phillips Brand.
>
> There is the Mobil Multigrade 20W 50, that comes from he USA.
>
> Then we get the mono grades SAE 50 and 60
>
> I am using Straight 120 (SAE 60) right now and have enough for a
> baout 10 hours.....after which I will have to change to Straight 100
> ( SAE 100)
>
> Is this okay? what thoughts
>
> Cheers
>
> Francois
>
> --------
> Round Engines RULE!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311376#311376
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Don't forget, the correct point gap (.25 - .35 MM or .010 - .014)
affects timing. Check/set the point gap first, then check/set the
timing.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Stelwagon
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 7:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re:Magneto Drop
Before rushing into anything check the magneto timing, it may be
retarded. Also I don't know how one was to determine 60 RPM with the
original tach, was kind of a guess.
Frank
Message 5
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I think I would ask your mechanic to bring the individual cylinders up
to top dead center one at a time and then check the valve gap on them.
The valve gap should be .010 - .014 (.25-.35 mm) cold per specification.
Be sure when checking the valve gap the pushrod adjuster nut is pressed
down to relieve the spring pressure. While holding the pressure on the
adjuster nut, measure the gap 90 degrees perpendicular to the roller on
the rocker arm. Not in the direction of the roller. It would be a good
idea to have a bent feeler gauge with the bent tip about 1/2" or so
long. With leaking exhaust valves as you described, it could be
improper valve gap which in turn could cause the exhaust valve to burn.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:16 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
Mark,
You know how it goes; I want to have an answer sooner and quicker than
those
mechanics can work.....
Yeah...I have a very good mechanic(s) working on it. The valves have
been
checked a year and a halve ago and nothing was found wrong.
Cilinders 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 have no compression left. The air seems to
get
out via the exhaust valve, you can hear the hissing.....but the thing
that
bothers me really is: why 5 cilinders at the same time???
It could or can only(?)be a common thing to all those five cilinders??
If
that is the case it can not be the individual exhaust valve.
The only reasons I can come up with are:
1. Fuel....too lean...but this should have an effect on the cilinder
head
temp which has never been in the red zone at all.
2. The air start system...something in the "spider", may be....
I'll keep you all informed on the progress the mechanics are making.
They
promised me to send some pictures as well...
W'll keep you posted.
Hans
Op 05-09-10 02:09, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> The question I would ask is:
>
> How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
>
> Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking
valves.
> But are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO
COMPRESSION?
> Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
>
> One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve
lash and
> tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be
allowed to
> fully close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty
darn quickly.
>
> Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a
bore-scope
> and LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for
scoring and
> look at the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
>
> When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are
putting in
> there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the
intake? A good
> mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on.
Just saying:
> "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you
might want to
> consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are
doing. I am
> not a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics,
and you
> should not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or
anyone
> else) minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to
tell you.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
>
>> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
>> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>
>> Yakkers,
>>
>> The engine
>> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
>> repaired in Lithuania.
>> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
>> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
>> checked regularly
>> up to this moment.
>> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>>
>> Hans Oortman
>> YAK52 RA3326K
>> Netherlands
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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I'm not talking about the 25-60 radial engine oil... I mean the 20-50
kind for flat engines, and I think the valve in question gets gummed
up by the anti-corrosion additives (which the Phillips doesn't have).
Was assuming it was the compressor pop-off, which seems to contain
glycerine and foamed up oil. This warning came a while back from
someone authoritative, although I don't remember which one (meaning
you, George, Jill, Carl, Richard). Anyone want to claim attribution
for that?
On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Eric,
> Could you please describe the "pop off valve" in the M14 that is
> affected by multi-grade oils?
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Wobschall
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
>
> >
>
> Francois:
>
> DO NOT use the multi-grade oils intended for flat engines. There is
> usually an additive in there that screws up various M-14P items like
> the pop-off valve.
>
> In the absence of the radial-engine specific oil, use the 100 or 120
> (SAE 50 or 60) for break in (50 hours) and the W100 or 120 (AD)
> thereafter.
>
> Have a great weekend. -Eric
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Francois Davel wrote:
>
> > <fdavel@senninger.com>
> >
> > Thanks Eric
> >
> > Here in South Africa, we do not get the Phillips Brand.
> >
> > There is the Mobil Multigrade 20W 50, that comes from he USA.
> >
> > Then we get the mono grades SAE 50 and 60
> >
> > I am using Straight 120 (SAE 60) right now and have enough for a
> > baout 10 hours.....after which I will have to change to Straight 100
> > ( SAE 100)
> >
> > Is this okay? what thoughts
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Francois
> >
> > --------
> > Round Engines RULE!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311376#311376
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com
> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
Message 7
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I'm betting it is valve adjustment that lead to it. Have the valves been
adjusted after every 100 hours of operation?
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
This really sounds interesting! I agree with Mark on a lot here.
If you have burnt exhaust valves, pressurizing the cylinder while the piston
is a TDC, you will hear air in the exhaust stack. The same will happen if
the valve is not fully seated. If the intake valve is brunt or not fully
closed, you'll hear air in the carburetor intake. If the rings are bad you
will hear air in case, when you put your ear to the case breather.
Also starting the engine would be harder. Since both valves need to be
closed with the piston slightly passed TDC and on the power stroke.
One time on my HS6 I had a brunt exhaust valve. Its only give away was
occasionally it would not start kick over when I hit the start button. I
would need to get out of the airplane, and pull the prop though one blade.
The engine seem to run OK otherwise. Its wasn't until I did a compression
check at the annual, did I find the problem! One of those duhhhh moments.
You might want to check the little pop it valve on the cylinders. If these
are not seated, (crap under their seats) they could allow pressurized air to
escape back toward the starter valve.
Let us know what they find. For an M-14p to have that many cylinders so low
with as little time on the engine as you say, is very usual.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 4, 2010 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
The question I would ask is:
How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking valves.
But
are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPRESSION?
Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash and
tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
fully
close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn quickly.
Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a bore-scope
and
LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring and
look at
the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting in
there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake? A
good
mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on. Just
saying:
"Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might want
to
consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing. I am
not
a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics, and you
should
not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or anyone else)
minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell you.
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>
> Yakkers,
>
> The engine
> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
> repaired in Lithuania.
> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
> checked regularly
> up to this moment.
> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>
> Hans Oortman
> YAK52 RA3326K
> Netherlands
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
===================================
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 8
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OK. Now I understand what pop-off valve you're talking about.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Wobschall
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
I'm not talking about the 25-60 radial engine oil... I mean the 20-50
kind for flat engines, and I think the valve in question gets gummed up
by the anti-corrosion additives (which the Phillips doesn't have). Was
assuming it was the compressor pop-off, which seems to contain glycerine
and foamed up oil. This warning came a while back from someone
authoritative, although I don't remember which one (meaning you, George,
Jill, Carl, Richard). Anyone want to claim attribution for that?
On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
Eric,
Could you please describe the "pop off valve" in the M14 that is
affected by multi-grade oils?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Wobschall
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
<eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Francois:
DO NOT use the multi-grade oils intended for flat engines. There
is
usually an additive in there that screws up various M-14P items
like
the pop-off valve.
In the absence of the radial-engine specific oil, use the 100 or
120
(SAE 50 or 60) for break in (50 hours) and the W100 or 120 (AD)
thereafter.
Have a great weekend. -Eric
On Sep 4, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Francois Davel wrote:
> <fdavel@senninger.com>
>
> Thanks Eric
>
> Here in South Africa, we do not get the Phillips Brand.
>
> There is the Mobil Multigrade 20W 50, that comes from he USA.
>
> Then we get the mono grades SAE 50 and 60
>
> I am using Straight 120 (SAE 60) right now and have enough for a
> baout 10 hours.....after which I will have to change to Straight
100
> ( SAE 100)
>
> Is this okay? what thoughts
>
> Cheers
>
> Francois
>
> --------
> Round Engines RULE!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311376#311376
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics==================
======<; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 9
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You'd agree that the other multi-grades are a no-no, right?
On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:43 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> OK. Now I understand what pop-off valve you're talking about.
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Wobschall
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
>
> I'm not talking about the 25-60 radial engine oil... I mean the
> 20-50 kind for flat engines, and I think the valve in question gets
> gummed up by the anti-corrosion additives (which the Phillips
> doesn't have). Was assuming it was the compressor pop-off, which
> seems to contain glycerine and foamed up oil. This warning came a
> while back from someone authoritative, although I don't remember
> which one (meaning you, George, Jill, Carl, Richard). Anyone want to
> claim attribution for that?
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> Eric,
>> Could you please describe the "pop off valve" in the M14 that is
>> affected by multi-grade oils?
>> Dennis
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Eric Wobschall
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
>>
>> >
>>
>> Francois:
>>
>> DO NOT use the multi-grade oils intended for flat engines. There is
>> usually an additive in there that screws up various M-14P items like
>> the pop-off valve.
>>
>> In the absence of the radial-engine specific oil, use the 100 or 120
>> (SAE 50 or 60) for break in (50 hours) and the W100 or 120 (AD)
>> thereafter.
>>
>> Have a great weekend. -Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Francois Davel wrote:
>>
>> > <fdavel@senninger.com>
>> >
>> > Thanks Eric
>> >
>> > Here in South Africa, we do not get the Phillips Brand.
>> >
>> > There is the Mobil Multigrade 20W 50, that comes from he USA.
>> >
>> > Then we get the mono grades SAE 50 and 60
>> >
>> > I am using Straight 120 (SAE 60) right now and have enough for a
>> > baout 10 hours.....after which I will have to change to Straight
>> 100
>> > ( SAE 100)
>> >
>> > Is this okay? what thoughts
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Francois
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Round Engines RULE!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311376#311376
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com
>> ">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhref
>> ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 10
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Definitely!
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com> wrote:
> You'd agree that the other multi-grades are a no-no, right?
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:43 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> OK. Now I understand what pop-off valve you're talking about.
>> Dennis
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Eric Wobschall
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
>>
>> I'm not talking about the 25-60 radial engine oil... I mean the 20-50 kin
d for flat engines, and I think the valve in question gets gummed up by the a
nti-corrosion additives (which the Phillips doesn't have). Was assuming it w
as the compressor pop-off, which seems to contain glycerine and foamed up oi
l. This warning came a while back from someone authoritative, although I don
't remember which one (meaning you, George, Jill, Carl, Richard). Anyone wan
t to claim attribution for that?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>
>>> Eric,
>>> Could you please describe the "pop off valve" in the M14 that is affecte
d by multi-grade oils?
>>> Dennis
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Eric Wobschall
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil, again
>>>
>>>
>>> Francois:
>>>
>>> DO NOT use the multi-grade oils intended for flat engines. There is
>>> usually an additive in there that screws up various M-14P items like
>>> the pop-off valve.
>>>
>>> In the absence of the radial-engine specific oil, use the 100 or 120
>>> (SAE 50 or 60) for break in (50 hours) and the W100 or 120 (AD)
>>> thereafter.
>>>
>>> Have a great weekend. -Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Francois Davel wrote:
>>>
>>> > <fdavel@senninger.com>
>>> >
>>> > Thanks Eric
>>> >
>>> > Here in South Africa, we do not get the Phillips Brand.
>>> >
>>> > There is the Mobil Multigrade 20W 50, that comes from he USA.
>>> >
>>> > Then we get the mono grades SAE 50 and 60
>>> >
>>> > I am using Straight 120 (SAE 60) right now and have enough for a
>>> > baout 10 hours.....after which I will have to change to Straight 100
>>> > ( SAE 100)
>>> >
>>> > Is this okay? what thoughts
>>> >
>>> > Cheers
>>> >
>>> > Francois
>>> >
>>> > --------
>>> > Round Engines RULE!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Read this topic online here:
>>> >
>>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311376#311376
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> http://www.matronics==================
======<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">htt
p://forums.matronics.com
>>> _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==========
======
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
contribution
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
>>
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
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Your problem is most likely a carbon on the exhaust valves, we
recently had the same situation on a compression test on two
cylinders--removed one and had valves reground, noticed that the valve
and seats were not burned but merely carboned. The next cylinder I
decided to try and old trick my father used to do on stuck valves.
remove spark plugs insert about six feet of cotton rope into cylinder,
bring up towards compression to prevent valves from moving when you
depress valve springs to remove keepers. Remove exhaust tube. attach
slow rpm drill motor to valve, insert small brush into exhaust port to
reach valve seat, start with course compound then go to fine compound
running drill motor to seat the valve. wash with contact cleaner or
automotive brake cleaner. the cleaner and valve compound is absorber
by the cotton rope. bring cylinder back towards compression and
compress valve spring and reinsert keepers--whole operation took less
than three hours. compression came back to 75/80.
On Sep 5, 2010, at 9:37 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> I think I would ask your mechanic to bring the individual cylinders
> up to top dead center one at a time and then check the valve gap on
> them. The valve gap should be .010 - .014 (.25-.35 mm) cold per
> specification. Be sure when checking the valve gap the pushrod
> adjuster nut is pressed down to relieve the spring pressure. While
> holding the pressure on the adjuster nut, measure the gap 90 degrees
> perpendicular to the roller on the rocker arm. Not in the direction
> of the roller. It would be a good idea to have a bent feeler gauge
> with the bent tip about 1/2" or so long. With leaking exhaust
> valves as you described, it could be improper valve gap which in
> turn could cause the exhaust valve to burn.
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Oortman
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
>
>
> Mark,
>
> You know how it goes; I want to have an answer sooner and quicker
> than those
> mechanics can work.....
> Yeah...I have a very good mechanic(s) working on it. The valves have
> been
> checked a year and a halve ago and nothing was found wrong.
> Cilinders 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 have no compression left. The air seems
> to get
> out via the exhaust valve, you can hear the hissing.....but the
> thing that
> bothers me really is: why 5 cilinders at the same time???
> It could or can only(?)be a common thing to all those five
> cilinders?? If
> that is the case it can not be the individual exhaust valve.
>
> The only reasons I can come up with are:
> 1. Fuel....too lean...but this should have an effect on the cilinder
> head
> temp which has never been in the red zone at all.
> 2. The air start system...something in the "spider", may be....
>
> I'll keep you all informed on the progress the mechanics are making.
> They
> promised me to send some pictures as well...
>
> W'll keep you posted.
>
> Hans
>
>
> Op 05-09-10 02:09, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> >
> > The question I would ask is:
> >
> > How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
> >
> > Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is
> thinking valves.
> > But are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO
> COMPRESSION?
> > Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
> >
> > One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve
> lash and
> > tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be
> allowed to
> > fully close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty
> darn quickly.
> >
> > Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a
> bore-scope
> > and LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for
> scoring and
> > look at the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
> >
> > When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are
> putting in
> > there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the
> intake? A good
> > mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on.
> Just saying:
> > "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you
> might want to
> > consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are
> doing. I am
> > not a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the
> basics, and you
> > should not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I
> (or anyone
> > else) minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to
> tell you.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
> >> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
> >> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
> >>
> >> Yakkers,
> >>
> >> The engine
> >> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
> >> repaired in Lithuania.
> >> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
> >> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
> >> checked regularly
> >> up to this moment.
> >> Any thoughts/ideas......???
> >>
> >> Hans Oortman
> >> YAK52 RA3326K
> >> Netherlands
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Forum -
> >> FAQ,
> >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> >> List Contribution Web Site -
> >> -Matt
> >> Dralle, List Admin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > p; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ">http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
Message 12
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Doc,
Absolutely....but 5 cilinders wrongly adjusted by a mechanic who=B9s done
hundreds of M14P=B9s????Mmmmm?
Hans
Op 05-09-10 16:09, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> schreef:
> I=B9m betting it is valve adjustment that lead to it. Have the valves been
> adjusted after every 100 hours of operation?
> Doc
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.
com
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:10 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
>
>
> This really sounds interesting! I agree with Mark on a lot here.
>
>
>
> If you have burnt exhaust valves, pressurizing the cylinder while the pis
ton
> is a TDC, you will hear air in the exhaust stack. The same will happen i
f the
> valve is not fully seated. If the intake valve is brunt or not fully clo
sed,
> you'll hear air in the carburetor intake. If the rings are bad you will
hear
> air in case, when you put your ear to the case breather.
>
>
>
> Also starting the engine would be harder. Since both valves need to be c
losed
> with the piston slightly passed TDC and on the power stroke.
>
> One time on my HS6 I had a brunt exhaust valve. Its only give away was
> occasionally it would not start kick over when I hit the start button. I
> would need to get out of the airplane, and pull the prop though one blade
.
> The engine seem to run OK otherwise. Its wasn't until I did a compressio
n
> check at the annual, did I find the problem! One of those duhhhh moments.
>
>
>
> You might want to check the little pop it valve on the cylinders. If the
se
> are not seated, (crap under their seats) they could allow pressurized air
to
> escape back toward the starter valve.
>
>
>
> Let us know what they find. For an M-14p to have that many cylinders so
low
> with as little time on the engine as you say, is very usual.
>
>
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sat, Sep 4, 2010 8:09 pm
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
>
> The question I would ask is:
>
> How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
>
> Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking valve
s.
> But
> are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPRESSION
?
> Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
>
> One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash and
> tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
> fully
> close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn quickly.
>
> Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a bore-sc
ope
> and
> LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring and
look
> at
> the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
>
> When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting
in
> there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake? A
good
> mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on. Just sa
ying:
> "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might wa
nt to
> consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing. I
am
> not
> a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics, and you
> should
> not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or anyone else
)
> minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell you.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
>
>> > From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>> > Subject: Yak-List: Compression
>> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> > Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
>> > Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>> >
>> > Yakkers,
>> >
>> > The engine
>> > of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
>> > repaired in Lithuania.
>> > Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
>> > Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
>> > checked regularly
>> > up to this moment.
>> > Any thoughts/ideas......???
>> >
>> > Hans Oortman
>> > YAK52 RA3326K
>> > Netherlands
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Forum -
>> > FAQ,
>> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> > List Contribution Web Site -
>> > -Matt
>> > Dralle, List Admin.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
> ===================================
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List <mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl>
> http://forums.matronics.com <mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution <mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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George,
On a very regular basis with the exception of the winter time when it ran
only once every 2 or 3 weeks.
Hans
Op 05-09-10 15:28, George Coy <george@gesoco.com> schreef:
>
> How often was the engine Run?
>
> George Coy
> CAS Ltd.
> 714 Airport Rd.
> Swanton VT 05488
> 802-868-5633 off
> 802-363-5782 cell
> george.coy@gmail.com
> http://coyafct.com/
> SKYPE george.coy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:16 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
>
>
> Mark,
>
> You know how it goes; I want to have an answer sooner and quicker than those
> mechanics can work.....
> Yeah...I have a very good mechanic(s) working on it. The valves have been
> checked a year and a halve ago and nothing was found wrong.
> Cilinders 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 have no compression left. The air seems to get
> out via the exhaust valve, you can hear the hissing.....but the thing that
> bothers me really is: why 5 cilinders at the same time???
> It could or can only(?)be a common thing to all those five cilinders?? If
> that is the case it can not be the individual exhaust valve.
>
> The only reasons I can come up with are:
> 1. Fuel....too lean...but this should have an effect on the cilinder head
> temp which has never been in the red zone at all.
> 2. The air start system...something in the "spider", may be....
>
> I'll keep you all informed on the progress the mechanics are making. They
> promised me to send some pictures as well...
>
> W'll keep you posted.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
> Op 05-09-10 02:09, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
>>
>> The question I would ask is:
>>
>> How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
>>
>> Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking
> valves.
>> But are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO
> COMPRESSION?
>> Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
>>
>> One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash and
>> tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
>> fully close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn
> quickly.
>>
>> Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a
> bore-scope
>> and LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring
> and
>> look at the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
>>
>> When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting
> in
>> there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake? A
> good
>> mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on. Just
> saying:
>> "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might
> want to
>> consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing. I
> am
>> not a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics, and
> you
>> should not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or
> anyone
>> else) minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell
> you.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
>>> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>>
>>> Yakkers,
>>>
>>> The engine
>>> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
>>> repaired in Lithuania.
>>> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
>>> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
>>> checked regularly
>>> up to this moment.
>>> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>>>
>>> Hans Oortman
>>> YAK52 RA3326K
>>> Netherlands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forum -
>>> FAQ,
>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> List Contribution Web Site -
>>> -Matt
>>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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-
Excuse me for adding a comment slightly off topic, but ....
-
1.- Doing what Dennis suggests makes perfect sense to me.
---
And... a comment was made: "How could a mechanic misadjust so many cylinder
s?-" Easy.- All that is needed is a cam lobe that is worn much differen
tly from the others, and the mech adjusted all the cylinders to the worn ca
m lobe.- Then when the other ones hit the rocker, they end up not allowin
g the valve to fully close.- Not a gross error.--Just too tight.- T
he valve does not completely close, very high temp exhaust valves erode the
seat, and POOF.- -Might take awhile to happen.- A year or so?- :-)
-- I am not putting money on this being the problem mind you, just offe
ring a circumstance that MIGHT explain it.-
-
2.- A STRONG CAUTION on what Adrian Hale wrote regarding lapping valves i
n place.--
-
If you are going to do the Indian Rope Trick on a cylinder in order to get
an exhaust valve to seat, be advised that is does indeed work.- And it wo
rks pretty darn well for the lower cylinders... why just the lower ones?-
Because all that grinding compound pretty much ends up falling out the spa
rk plug holes.-- Blow some compressed air in there, be careful and you
can be PRETTY sure you get it all out.- THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR THE UPPE
R CYLINDERS!- When you try this trick with those, it is VERY VERY possibl
e that some of that grinding compound will make it past the rope and down i
nto the rings.-
-
So what do you think can happen when you start an engine up with grinding c
ompound stuck in the piston rings?-
-
This is not "theory".- Yes, I actually did this.- I also ended up havin
g two rings cracking in half, and had to hone the cylinder.- I was actual
ly lucky that it did not do more damage.-
-
So yes, it is a neat trick.- Yes, it can indeed work.- It can also dest
roy a cylinder.-QUICKLY!- -Especially on the top ones.-
-
If-- *I*- -EVER run into a problem like this again, top or bottom,
that darn cylinder is coming OFF the engine, and we are going to fix it on
the bench.- But, that's just me.- You roll the dice, you take your chan
ces.-
-
Mark Bitterlich
-
-
-
-
--- On Sun, 9/5/10, adrian hale <coolade1@att.net> wrote:
From: adrian hale <coolade1@att.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
Your problem is most likely a carbon on the exhaust valves, we recently had
the same situation on a compression test on two cylinders--removed one and
had valves reground, noticed that the valve and seats were not burned but
merely carboned. -The next cylinder I decided to try and old trick my fat
her used to do on stuck valves. remove spark plugs insert about six feet of
cotton rope into cylinder, bring up towards compression to prevent valves
from moving when you depress valve springs to remove keepers. Remove exhaus
t tube. attach slow rpm drill motor to valve, insert small brush into exhau
st port to reach valve seat, start with course compound then go to fine com
pound running drill motor to seat the valve. wash with contact cleaner or a
utomotive brake cleaner. the cleaner and valve compound is absorber by the
cotton rope. bring cylinder back towards compression and compress valve spr
ing and reinsert keepers--whole operation took less than three hours.
-compression came back to 75/80.
On Sep 5, 2010, at 9:37 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
I think I would ask your mechanic to bring the individual cylinders up to t
op dead center one at a time and then check the valve gap on them.-- Th
e valve gap should be .010 - .014 (.25-.35 mm) cold per specification.- B
e sure when checking the valve gap the pushrod adjuster nut is pressed down
to relieve the spring pressure.- While holding the pressure on the adjus
ter nut,-measure the gap 90 degrees perpendicular to the roller on the ro
cker arm.- Not in the direction of the roller.- It would be a good idea
to have a bent feeler gauge with the bent tip about- 1/2" or so long.-
With leaking exhaust valves as you described, it could be improper valve g
ap which in turn could cause the exhaust valve to burn.
Dennis
-
-
-
----- Original Message -----
From:-Hans Oortman
To:-yak-list@matronics.com
Sent:-Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:16 AM
Subject:-Re: Yak-List: Compression
Mark,
You know how it goes; I want to have an answer sooner and quicker than thos
e
mechanics can work.....
Yeah...I have a very good mechanic(s) working on it. The valves have been
checked a year and a halve ago and nothing was found wrong.
Cilinders 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 have no compression left. The air seems to get
out via the exhaust valve, you can hear the hissing.....but the thing that
bothers me really is: why 5 cilinders at the same time???
It could or can only(?)be a common thing to all those five cilinders?? If
that is the case it can not be the individual exhaust valve.
The only reasons I can come up with are:
1. Fuel....too lean...but this should have an effect on the cilinder head
temp which has never been in the red zone at all.
2. The air start system...something in the "spider", may be....
I'll keep you all informed on the progress the mechanics are making. They
promised me to send some pictures as well...
W'll keep you posted.
Hans
Op 05-09-10 02:09, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> schreef:
>-
> The question I would ask is:
>-
> How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
>-
> Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking valve
s.
> But are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPRES
SION?
> Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS?- Wow.
>-
> One thought is:- If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash a
nd
> tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
> fully close.- If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn q
uickly.
>-
> Lots of other things comes to mind.- But cut to the chase.- Get a bor
e-scope
> and LOOK inside those cylinders.- Look at the cylinder walls for scorin
g and
> look at the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
>-
> When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting
in
> there?- Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake?
- A good
> mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on.- Just
saying:
> "Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might wa
nt to
> consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing.-
I am
> not a great engine mech.- But even I know a little about the basics, an
d you
> should not have to go to the YAK list for an answer.- Not that I (or an
yone
> else) minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell y
ou.
>-
> Mark Bitterlich
>-
>-
> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
>-
>> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
>> To:-yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
>> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>-
>> Yakkers,
>>-
>> The engine-
>> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
>> repaired in Lithuania.
>> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
>> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
>> checked regularly
>> up to this moment.
>> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>>-
>> Hans Oortman
>> YAK52 RA3326K
>> Netherlands
>>-
>>-
>>-
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>-
>>-
>>-
>>-
>-
>-
>-
>-
> p;------- Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics========
================<;--- via the Web hre
f="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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p://www.matronics.com/c================
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Hans,
As you, it really surprises me that you would have 5 leaking cylinders. One
cylinder with the rings align so as to lose compression I can rationalize.
One or two cylinders with leaking exhaust valves I can see too but generally
not in 200 hours total time unless there was a mistake in valve lash
adjustment. The guys in Lithuania will tell the tale soon. Sorry you are
having to go through this. Will interested in hearing what the cause is.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
Doc,
Absolutely....but 5 cilinders wrongly adjusted by a mechanic who's done
hundreds of M14P's????Mmmmm?
Hans
Op 05-09-10 16:09, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> schreef:
I'm betting it is valve adjustment that lead to it. Have the valves been
adjusted after every 100 hours of operation?
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
This really sounds interesting! I agree with Mark on a lot here.
If you have burnt exhaust valves, pressurizing the cylinder while the piston
is a TDC, you will hear air in the exhaust stack. The same will happen if
the valve is not fully seated. If the intake valve is brunt or not fully
closed, you'll hear air in the carburetor intake. If the rings are bad you
will hear air in case, when you put your ear to the case breather.
Also starting the engine would be harder. Since both valves need to be
closed with the piston slightly passed TDC and on the power stroke.
One time on my HS6 I had a brunt exhaust valve. Its only give away was
occasionally it would not start kick over when I hit the start button. I
would need to get out of the airplane, and pull the prop though one blade.
The engine seem to run OK otherwise. Its wasn't until I did a compression
check at the annual, did I find the problem! One of those duhhhh moments.
You might want to check the little pop it valve on the cylinders. If these
are not seated, (crap under their seats) they could allow pressurized air to
escape back toward the starter valve.
Let us know what they find. For an M-14p to have that many cylinders so low
with as little time on the engine as you say, is very usual.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 4, 2010 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Compression
The question I would ask is:
How many hours has it been since someone adjusted your valves?
Everyone seems to be on the same page of music here and is thinking valves.
But
are you actually saying that FIVE CYLINDERS HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPRESSION?
Not.. the #5 cylinder, but FIVE INDIVIDUAL CYLINDERS? Wow.
One thought is: If someone managed to really screw up the valve lash and
tightened the things down too much, your valves might never be allowed to
fully
close. If that happened, your valves would burn up pretty darn quickly.
Lots of other things comes to mind. But cut to the chase. Get a bore-scope
and
LOOK inside those cylinders. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring and
look at
the valves for signs of burning and high temps.
When you run a compression test, what happens to the air you are putting in
there? Is it coming out the exhaust, or is it coming out the intake? A
good
mechanic ought to be able to tell you what the heck is going on. Just
saying:
"Five Cylinders have little or no compression" tells me that you might want
to
consider getting someone who knows a little more what they are doing. I am
not
a great engine mech. But even I know a little about the basics, and you
should
not have to go to the YAK list for an answer. Not that I (or anyone else)
minds, but it is just that a good mechanic should be able to tell you.
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Sat, 9/4/10, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl> wrote:
> From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
> Subject: Yak-List: Compression
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 3:43 PM
> Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>
> Yakkers,
>
> The engine
> of my Yak52 has recently been removed in order to be
> repaired in Lithuania.
> Problem: 5 cilinders having no or almost no compression.
> Engine has always been maintained properly and compression
> checked regularly
> up to this moment.
> Any thoughts/ideas......???
>
> Hans Oortman
> YAK52 RA3326K
> Netherlands
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
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