Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Jan Mevis)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Starting Problems Yak 52 (Eric Wobschall)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks (George Coy)
5. 01:26 PM - generator intermittent (Jon Boede)
6. 01:51 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
8. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
9. 08:27 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
10. 08:36 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
11. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
12. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple: a velcro strap
(like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I hold the brake.
When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing the strap
(without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If this is unclear I
'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on the stick all the
time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand is in the way.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my 50. :-) But I have
toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it helps the rolling
forward factor.
On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always working the
> way they should. Obviously sometimes they don't. Our M-14's are
> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags are turned off by
> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs to happen is for
> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be able to be
> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure, wire failure,
> whatever. The engine will not shut off. This leaves the Emergency
> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the engine.
> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does not immediately
> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your oil shut-off valve
> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency Fuel Handle,
> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>
> To finish my particular story, I did just that. I pulled the shut-
> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then watched the oil
> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle back in because I
> just could not stand to ruin an engine. Especially THIS engine.
>
> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the left mag which
> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire was open to the
> switch.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the emergency fuel shut
> off handle after every flight. I personally believe that the
> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to help prevent
> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do believe it testing it
> every once in awhile! :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or not the fuel
> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim Kimball Enterprises in Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve interlocks with a
> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air start valve.
> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started because the
> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut off valve.
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vic <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> Hello,
> to stop oil draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
which
> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on the photos, I
> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump on the right
> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape. The lever on
> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol tap on the
> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the petrol after
> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time. No more need to
> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot forget to turn on
> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be opened in the
> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I added a safety
> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the "open"position, in case,
> something should break.
> There may be the need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
for a
> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be done. I dont
> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need for an
> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear obstacles, but the
> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>
>
> p; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ">http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Starting Problems Yak 52 |
I do the same thing. Drains open. Pull through 8+ blades. Preflight.
Pressurize carb monitoring fuel pressure gage (not even sure if that's
needed), 2 strokes, 2 blades, 2 strokes, 2 strokes... and then I will
see a trickle of fuel... then 4+ strokes. When starting, I re-
pressurize carb (takes about 1 stroke, and leave the primer out on
prime (right side on the 52). I will then give it a shot if needed
before start, and push it in after start if it didn't need it. Don't
forget to lock it in the middle, or it will run rough and gobble fuel.
If I have flown recently, priming between blades can be dispensed
with, but don't forget to pull through at least 8 blades. If you JUST
shut it off, you might skip it, but if it's been a few minutes and
still hot, you don't want to touch the prop for a while.... it can
fire on you, and some say it scores the pistons.
On Sep 17, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> It is not unusual after giving it FIVE strokes of prime, to have the
> excess fuel run out of your intake drain outlet. It is very hard to
> over-prime the engine IF, and I repeat IF, you have an intake drain
> kit
> installed and the intake drain is clear of oil. In fact, that is
> one of
> the thing I check on starting. When I give it a few strokes of
> prime, I
> EXPECT to see fuel coming out of the intake drain outlet. If I don't,
> then there is probably a lot of oil in there and I need to rethink
> starting the engine.
>
> Question, do you have the automotive plug conversion? If so, when was
> the last time you changed the plugs and what is the GAP setting? If
> you
> are using automotive plugs, make sure the gap is about .018 to .020
>
> Agreed that the BOOST COIL (shower of sparks... My favorite discussion
> :-) is highly suspect. HIGHLY SUSPECT. If the engine RUNS ... Then
> you probably do NOT have a pressure carb problem. Especially if you
> can
> manually prop the engine.
>
> Don't worry about system pressure falling to zero ... Mine always has.
> Never an issue.
>
> Fuel coming out of the INTAKE DRAIN after the engine runs means that
> you
> did not have it open AS YOU WERE PRIMING BEFORE START, and the excess
> fuel collected in the intake drain hoses and remained there for the
> whole time. This is NORMAL. Mine does the exact same thing. The way
> to avoid that is to have the INTAKE DRAIN OUTLET PETCOCK OPEN as you
> are
> priming. Prime it, and then pull the engine through. You will get
> fuel
> coming out of the intake drain, as I have said. This is a very good
> method to AVOID over-priming. It becomes almost impossible to do,
> because the excess fuel has no place to collect, and just drains out
> the
> bottom. I have been doing it that way for 10 years.
>
> You should not start the engine with the MAGS ON BOTH using the air
> starter. Yes, it can work, but it can also cause some damage if you
> happen to get unlucky. Hand propping, .... Should also be done with
> the
> shower of sparks, but it seems clear that IT IS NOT WORKING.
>
> A good mech should be able to tell you how to check that. But I have
> had the same problems and it can be a real pain in the butt to
> troubleshoot. There are some articles written on how you can ADJUST
> the
> shower of sparks vibrator coil POINTS to make it work better. If all
> else fails, check the wire from it to the mag, and then buy a new
> shower
> of sparks unit from Doug Sapp. The CJ-6A and M-14's units are
> IDENTICAL.
>
> Turn off the main air valve... Run the flaps up and down to drain out
> any residual air. Now push the start button and listen for the BUZZ.
> How loud is it? A safe test... The shower of sparks goes to the mag
> on
> the left which on my 50 is the front plugs. Pull all the front plugs.
> Now the engine is safe. Take one of the plug wires and hold it about
> 1/4 inch from a ground. Push the starter button and rotate the prop
> manually until it gets to that wire and LOOK AT THE SPARK! You can
> also
> do this by leaving the wire connected to the plug and then holding the
> plug case to ground and then looking at the actual spark on the spark
> plug itself. See how strong it is. If it is not really actively
> BRIGHT, then you have found the problem. You can adjust the booster
> coil contacts and try to make the spark stronger.
>
> Odd are about 80% that this is your problem. Not the carb.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Wobschall
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:02
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
>
> Sounds like the shower of sparks or the wire from it to the left
> magneto
> to me. Has that part been checked?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:01 AM, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
>
> I am having trouble starting my Yak 52. I originally had
> problems with the air starter, and we had to prop start the engine,
> usually on second or third pull. . Now that the starter is fixed, we
> seem to be having some fuel problems. I am using up all of the air in
> the bottle and still no start. Eventually we can get a pull start. I
> have installed the oil drain kit, and after turning the engine over,
> fuel is accumulating in the manifold. A large amount of fuel runs
> out of
> the drain when opened.. This is what we are seeing.
>
> Pressurising the fuel system with primer to the left, about 10
> strokes, to get pressure registering. However, the fuel pressure drops
> off almost immediately, unlike our other Yak.
>
> About 5 strokes to the right to prime the cylinders, sometimes
> pulling the prop a blade between strokes, all as per recommended
> procedure. Ambient air temp about 18C, and we are careful to not
> overprime.
>
> Using the air starter, after about 10 rotations and with mags on
> both it still won't start. On checking the oil drain cock, fuel runs
> out, maybe 50 to 100 mls. We are basically repeating that until
> running
> out of air, and then topping up with external AIR bottle.
>
> When we can eventually get it going by pull start, it runs and
> flies well. It starts using the air starter, (reluctantly) when
> warm. On
> shutdown, and on opening the drain cock, again fuel comes out.
>
> It seems we are flooding the engine and we suspect it may be
> something within the carburettor that is sticking. Thoughts anyone? We
> have the carburettor cutaway poster, and the M14p Maint manual to
> guide
> us, but the mechanic is reluctant to open the carbie without knowing
> that this is the most likely cause, and if there is a simple fix to
> clean a possibly sticky needle valve, if that is what it could be?
>
> If anyone has had similar problems, you help is much appreciated
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Bill Lang
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
> .
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
> ntribution
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks |
CAS makes a solid state replacement for the shower of sparks. There is a
service bulletin on their instillation . Check it out on the web site
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
Hello,
some time ago I found a perfect replacement for the buzzer coil. It is a 24
V coil with buzzer, military equipment. It produces half an inch spark. They
turn up occasionally, new old stock, vacuum packed in aluminium. So, if
nobody objects, Id put a short notice here to make them available to the
Yakkers. I am a private, no dealer, but a little profit should be allright ?
At the moment there is one to give away, offers by PM.
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312806#312806
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/buzzer_contacts_333.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_coil_209.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contacts_185.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_coil_143.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | generator intermittent |
I have a stock CJ-6A and the generator works about half the time... some fl
ights it comes online at 1=2C000 rpm=2C some flights when the RPM gets high
er=2C and some flights not at all.
Once it starts working it seems to stay working.
I've looked at the brushes and they seem fine. All other electrical connec
tions seem ok.
Any suggestions as to what to check next?
Thanks=2C
Jon
Message 6
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times then another 4 after
priming. That gets the juices flowing before that aerobatics.
Life is good!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil drain. It
is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just using the prop as a lever.
So it is actually not all just about how many times you pull the prop through,
but also how you are holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are
pulling it, etc.
Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others recommend fixing
the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut off valve.
There's nothing wrong with oil shut off valves to the engine, regardless of what
anyone might thing. The A-26 Invader had electric oil shut off valves for both
motors. And... one recently had the circuit breaker pop, and the gents managed
to ruin both engines on start. And this was a VERY experienced crew.
And a YAK-52 at New Bern had a guy bend the rod so bad with a hydraulic lock that
it blow the rod right out the cylinder and ruined the case IN FLIGHT.
I don't think it is the MOD that is bad, or any engineering type that designed
it. What typically happens is that the OPERATOR of the aircraft CHANGES the modification
in one way or another in order to save money, or make what he or she
feels is an "intended improvement". Usually with parts from Autozone.
After all, these aircraft are Experimental and we take advantage of that fact all
the time. Modifications are part of the nature of owning an Experimental Aircraft,
at least in my opinion. The alternative is having the FAA even MORE
involved.
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 4:49 PM
> "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times
> then another 4 after
> priming. That gets the juices flowing before that
> aerobatics.
> Life is good!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the
> stuff guys in
> here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I
> try to stick
> with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground
> crew
> having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain).
> Like Hal, I
> also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> <gill.g@gpimail.com>
> >
> > You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto
> is: "If it is not
> > broken,
> > take it apart and fix it."
> >
> > Gill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of William
> > Halverson
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> Halverson
> > <william@netpros.net>
> >
> >
> > Jesus.
> >
> > Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
> >
> > I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of
> blades. If I
> > get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to
> sell her.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > YAK55
> > N355YK
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> > MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry
> >> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >>
> >>
> >> Before starting the engine after some rather
> extensive work, a good
> >> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when
> the engine
> >> started. The prop struck him taking a good
> chunk out of the blade
> >> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell
> to the ground and the
> >> aircraft started rolling forward. I was
> standing there and actually
> >> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> >> moving. After he was pulled away by other
> folks at the airport I
> >> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> >> were already OFF. I then went to pull the
> fuel shut-off handle but
> >> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL
> SHUT OFF. So by
> >> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting
> off the oil. Not
> >> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they are an
accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> >Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
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