Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Jan Mevis)
2. 12:55 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10 (Go Flying)
3. 12:55 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10 (Go Flying)
4. 03:52 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
5. 03:54 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
6. 07:56 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 08:03 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Roger Kemp M.D.)
8. 03:05 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 03:20 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 03:37 PM - Re: generator intermittent (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 03:50 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
12. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Oil shut-off valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
13. 04:39 PM - Re: generator intermittent (Jon Boede)
14. 05:56 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
15. 05:58 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
16. 07:35 PM - To unsubscribe from the "YAK list" (Roger Kemp M.D.)
17. 08:14 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
I concur with that, and I use my small mod only for starting up the
aircraft. When needed I can add another prime or two, without worrying that
the aircraft might jump forward. You never know who might be foolish enough
to stand in front of the prop ... even after shouting a loud "prop cleaar
...".
Jan
PS: I would NEVER leave an aircraft alone with a running engine, and parking
brakes set, like some do.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
Sent: zondag 19 september 2010 5:33
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they
are an accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> >Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10 |
I have decided to unsubscribe to the Matronics lists, there is nearly no
traffic and no content to red.
Chris Norman, CEO
www.digitalrealitycorp.com
owner www.goflying.co
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak-List Digest
Server
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10
*
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Total Messages Posted Sat 09/18/10: 12
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Jan Mevis)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Starting Problems Yak 52 (Eric Wobschall)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks (George Coy)
5. 01:26 PM - generator intermittent (Jon Boede)
6. 01:51 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
8. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
9. 08:27 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
10. 08:36 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
11. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
12. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:49:22 AM PST US
From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple: a velcro strap
(like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I hold the brake.
When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing the strap
(without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If this is unclear I
'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on the stick all the
time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand is in the way.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my 50. :-) But I have
toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it helps the rolling
forward factor.
On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always working the
> way they should. Obviously sometimes they don't. Our M-14's are
> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags are turned off by
> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs to happen is for
> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be able to be
> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure, wire failure,
> whatever. The engine will not shut off. This leaves the Emergency
> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the engine.
> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does not immediately
> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your oil shut-off valve
> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency Fuel Handle,
> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>
> To finish my particular story, I did just that. I pulled the shut-
> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then watched the oil
> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle back in because I
> just could not stand to ruin an engine. Especially THIS engine.
>
> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the left mag which
> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire was open to the
> switch.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the emergency fuel shut
> off handle after every flight. I personally believe that the
> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to help prevent
> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do believe it testing it
> every once in awhile! :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or not the fuel
> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim Kimball Enterprises in Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve interlocks with a
> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air start valve.
> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started because the
> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut off valve.
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vic <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> Hello,
> to stop oil draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
which
> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on the photos, I
> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump on the right
> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape. The lever on
> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol tap on the
> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the petrol after
> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time. No more need to
> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot forget to turn on
> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be opened in the
> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I added a safety
> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the "open"position, in case,
> something should break.
> There may be the need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
for a
> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be done. I dont
> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need for an
> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear obstacles, but the
> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>
>
> p; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ">http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:34:33 AM PST US
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 05:51:59 AM PST US
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
I do the same thing. Drains open. Pull through 8+ blades. Preflight.
Pressurize carb monitoring fuel pressure gage (not even sure if that's
needed), 2 strokes, 2 blades, 2 strokes, 2 strokes... and then I will
see a trickle of fuel... then 4+ strokes. When starting, I re-
pressurize carb (takes about 1 stroke, and leave the primer out on
prime (right side on the 52). I will then give it a shot if needed
before start, and push it in after start if it didn't need it. Don't
forget to lock it in the middle, or it will run rough and gobble fuel.
If I have flown recently, priming between blades can be dispensed
with, but don't forget to pull through at least 8 blades. If you JUST
shut it off, you might skip it, but if it's been a few minutes and
still hot, you don't want to touch the prop for a while.... it can
fire on you, and some say it scores the pistons.
On Sep 17, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> It is not unusual after giving it FIVE strokes of prime, to have the
> excess fuel run out of your intake drain outlet. It is very hard to
> over-prime the engine IF, and I repeat IF, you have an intake drain
> kit
> installed and the intake drain is clear of oil. In fact, that is
> one of
> the thing I check on starting. When I give it a few strokes of
> prime, I
> EXPECT to see fuel coming out of the intake drain outlet. If I don't,
> then there is probably a lot of oil in there and I need to rethink
> starting the engine.
>
> Question, do you have the automotive plug conversion? If so, when was
> the last time you changed the plugs and what is the GAP setting? If
> you
> are using automotive plugs, make sure the gap is about .018 to .020
>
> Agreed that the BOOST COIL (shower of sparks... My favorite discussion
> :-) is highly suspect. HIGHLY SUSPECT. If the engine RUNS ... Then
> you probably do NOT have a pressure carb problem. Especially if you
> can
> manually prop the engine.
>
> Don't worry about system pressure falling to zero ... Mine always has.
> Never an issue.
>
> Fuel coming out of the INTAKE DRAIN after the engine runs means that
> you
> did not have it open AS YOU WERE PRIMING BEFORE START, and the excess
> fuel collected in the intake drain hoses and remained there for the
> whole time. This is NORMAL. Mine does the exact same thing. The way
> to avoid that is to have the INTAKE DRAIN OUTLET PETCOCK OPEN as you
> are
> priming. Prime it, and then pull the engine through. You will get
> fuel
> coming out of the intake drain, as I have said. This is a very good
> method to AVOID over-priming. It becomes almost impossible to do,
> because the excess fuel has no place to collect, and just drains out
> the
> bottom. I have been doing it that way for 10 years.
>
> You should not start the engine with the MAGS ON BOTH using the air
> starter. Yes, it can work, but it can also cause some damage if you
> happen to get unlucky. Hand propping, .... Should also be done with
> the
> shower of sparks, but it seems clear that IT IS NOT WORKING.
>
> A good mech should be able to tell you how to check that. But I have
> had the same problems and it can be a real pain in the butt to
> troubleshoot. There are some articles written on how you can ADJUST
> the
> shower of sparks vibrator coil POINTS to make it work better. If all
> else fails, check the wire from it to the mag, and then buy a new
> shower
> of sparks unit from Doug Sapp. The CJ-6A and M-14's units are
> IDENTICAL.
>
> Turn off the main air valve... Run the flaps up and down to drain out
> any residual air. Now push the start button and listen for the BUZZ.
> How loud is it? A safe test... The shower of sparks goes to the mag
> on
> the left which on my 50 is the front plugs. Pull all the front plugs.
> Now the engine is safe. Take one of the plug wires and hold it about
> 1/4 inch from a ground. Push the starter button and rotate the prop
> manually until it gets to that wire and LOOK AT THE SPARK! You can
> also
> do this by leaving the wire connected to the plug and then holding the
> plug case to ground and then looking at the actual spark on the spark
> plug itself. See how strong it is. If it is not really actively
> BRIGHT, then you have found the problem. You can adjust the booster
> coil contacts and try to make the spark stronger.
>
> Odd are about 80% that this is your problem. Not the carb.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Wobschall
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:02
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
>
> Sounds like the shower of sparks or the wire from it to the left
> magneto
> to me. Has that part been checked?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:01 AM, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
>
> I am having trouble starting my Yak 52. I originally had
> problems with the air starter, and we had to prop start the engine,
> usually on second or third pull. . Now that the starter is fixed, we
> seem to be having some fuel problems. I am using up all of the air in
> the bottle and still no start. Eventually we can get a pull start. I
> have installed the oil drain kit, and after turning the engine over,
> fuel is accumulating in the manifold. A large amount of fuel runs
> out of
> the drain when opened.. This is what we are seeing.
>
> Pressurising the fuel system with primer to the left, about 10
> strokes, to get pressure registering. However, the fuel pressure drops
> off almost immediately, unlike our other Yak.
>
> About 5 strokes to the right to prime the cylinders, sometimes
> pulling the prop a blade between strokes, all as per recommended
> procedure. Ambient air temp about 18C, and we are careful to not
> overprime.
>
> Using the air starter, after about 10 rotations and with mags on
> both it still won't start. On checking the oil drain cock, fuel runs
> out, maybe 50 to 100 mls. We are basically repeating that until
> running
> out of air, and then topping up with external AIR bottle.
>
> When we can eventually get it going by pull start, it runs and
> flies well. It starts using the air starter, (reluctantly) when
> warm. On
> shutdown, and on opening the drain cock, again fuel comes out.
>
> It seems we are flooding the engine and we suspect it may be
> something within the carburettor that is sticking. Thoughts anyone? We
> have the carburettor cutaway poster, and the M14p Maint manual to
> guide
> us, but the mechanic is reluctant to open the carbie without knowing
> that this is the most likely cause, and if there is a simple fix to
> clean a possibly sticky needle valve, if that is what it could be?
>
> If anyone has had similar problems, you help is much appreciated
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Bill Lang
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
> .
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
> ntribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 06:15:39 AM PST US
From: "George Coy" <george@gesoco.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
CAS makes a solid state replacement for the shower of sparks. There is a
service bulletin on their instillation . Check it out on the web site
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
Hello,
some time ago I found a perfect replacement for the buzzer coil. It is a 24
V coil with buzzer, military equipment. It produces half an inch spark. They
turn up occasionally, new old stock, vacuum packed in aluminium. So, if
nobody objects, Id put a short notice here to make them available to the
Yakkers. I am a private, no dealer, but a little profit should be allright ?
At the moment there is one to give away, offers by PM.
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312806#312806
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/buzzer_contacts_333.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_coil_209.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contacts_185.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_coil_143.jpg
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 01:26:07 PM PST US
From: Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: generator intermittent
I have a stock CJ-6A and the generator works about half the time... some fl
ights it comes online at 1=2C000 rpm=2C some flights when the RPM gets high
er=2C and some flights not at all.
Once it starts working it seems to stay working.
I've looked at the brushes and they seem fine. All other electrical connec
tions seem ok.
Any suggestions as to what to check next?
Thanks=2C
Jon
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 01:51:25 PM PST US
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times then another 4 after
priming. That gets the juices flowing before that aerobatics.
Life is good!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:25:28 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 08:25:28 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 08:27:25 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil drain.
It
is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just using the prop as a
lever.
So it is actually not all just about how many times you pull the prop
through,
but also how you are holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are
pulling it, etc.
Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others recommend
fixing
the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut off valve.
There's nothing wrong with oil shut off valves to the engine, regardless of
what
anyone might thing. The A-26 Invader had electric oil shut off valves for
both
motors. And... one recently had the circuit breaker pop, and the gents
managed
to ruin both engines on start. And this was a VERY experienced crew.
And a YAK-52 at New Bern had a guy bend the rod so bad with a hydraulic lock
that
it blow the rod right out the cylinder and ruined the case IN FLIGHT.
I don't think it is the MOD that is bad, or any engineering type that
designed
it. What typically happens is that the OPERATOR of the aircraft CHANGES the
modification
in one way or another in order to save money, or make what he or she
feels is an "intended improvement". Usually with parts from Autozone.
After all, these aircraft are Experimental and we take advantage of that
fact all
the time. Modifications are part of the nature of owning an Experimental
Aircraft,
at least in my opinion. The alternative is having the FAA even MORE
involved.
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 4:49 PM
> "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times
> then another 4 after
> priming. That gets the juices flowing before that
> aerobatics.
> Life is good!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the
> stuff guys in
> here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I
> try to stick
> with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground
> crew
> having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain).
> Like Hal, I
> also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> <gill.g@gpimail.com>
> >
> > You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto
> is: "If it is not
> > broken,
> > take it apart and fix it."
> >
> > Gill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of William
> > Halverson
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> Halverson
> > <william@netpros.net>
> >
> >
> > Jesus.
> >
> > Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
> >
> > I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of
> blades. If I
> > get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to
> sell her.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > YAK55
> > N355YK
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> > MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry
> >> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >>
> >>
> >> Before starting the engine after some rather
> extensive work, a good
> >> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when
> the engine
> >> started. The prop struck him taking a good
> chunk out of the blade
> >> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell
> to the ground and the
> >> aircraft started rolling forward. I was
> standing there and actually
> >> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> >> moving. After he was pulled away by other
> folks at the airport I
> >> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> >> were already OFF. I then went to pull the
> fuel shut-off handle but
> >> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL
> SHUT OFF. So by
> >> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting
> off the oil. Not
> >> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:36:45 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they
are an
accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> >Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:52 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:52 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10 |
I have decided to unsubscribe to the Matronics lists, there is nearly no
traffic and no content to red.
Chris Norman, CEO
www.digitalrealitycorp.com
owner www.goflying.co
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak-List Digest
Server
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10
*
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Yak-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 09/18/10: 12
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Jan Mevis)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Starting Problems Yak 52 (Eric Wobschall)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks (George Coy)
5. 01:26 PM - generator intermittent (Jon Boede)
6. 01:51 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
8. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
9. 08:27 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
10. 08:36 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
11. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
12. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:49:22 AM PST US
From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple: a velcro strap
(like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I hold the brake.
When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing the strap
(without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If this is unclear I
'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on the stick all the
time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand is in the way.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my 50. :-) But I have
toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it helps the rolling
forward factor.
On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always working the
> way they should. Obviously sometimes they don't. Our M-14's are
> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags are turned off by
> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs to happen is for
> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be able to be
> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure, wire failure,
> whatever. The engine will not shut off. This leaves the Emergency
> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the engine.
> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does not immediately
> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your oil shut-off valve
> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency Fuel Handle,
> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>
> To finish my particular story, I did just that. I pulled the shut-
> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then watched the oil
> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle back in because I
> just could not stand to ruin an engine. Especially THIS engine.
>
> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the left mag which
> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire was open to the
> switch.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the emergency fuel shut
> off handle after every flight. I personally believe that the
> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to help prevent
> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do believe it testing it
> every once in awhile! :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or not the fuel
> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim Kimball Enterprises in Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve interlocks with a
> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air start valve.
> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started because the
> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut off valve.
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vic <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> Hello,
> to stop oil draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
which
> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on the photos, I
> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump on the right
> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape. The lever on
> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol tap on the
> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the petrol after
> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time. No more need to
> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot forget to turn on
> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be opened in the
> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I added a safety
> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the "open"position, in case,
> something should break.
> There may be the need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
for a
> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be done. I dont
> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need for an
> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear obstacles, but the
> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>
>
> p; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ">http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:34:33 AM PST US
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 05:51:59 AM PST US
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
I do the same thing. Drains open. Pull through 8+ blades. Preflight.
Pressurize carb monitoring fuel pressure gage (not even sure if that's
needed), 2 strokes, 2 blades, 2 strokes, 2 strokes... and then I will
see a trickle of fuel... then 4+ strokes. When starting, I re-
pressurize carb (takes about 1 stroke, and leave the primer out on
prime (right side on the 52). I will then give it a shot if needed
before start, and push it in after start if it didn't need it. Don't
forget to lock it in the middle, or it will run rough and gobble fuel.
If I have flown recently, priming between blades can be dispensed
with, but don't forget to pull through at least 8 blades. If you JUST
shut it off, you might skip it, but if it's been a few minutes and
still hot, you don't want to touch the prop for a while.... it can
fire on you, and some say it scores the pistons.
On Sep 17, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> It is not unusual after giving it FIVE strokes of prime, to have the
> excess fuel run out of your intake drain outlet. It is very hard to
> over-prime the engine IF, and I repeat IF, you have an intake drain
> kit
> installed and the intake drain is clear of oil. In fact, that is
> one of
> the thing I check on starting. When I give it a few strokes of
> prime, I
> EXPECT to see fuel coming out of the intake drain outlet. If I don't,
> then there is probably a lot of oil in there and I need to rethink
> starting the engine.
>
> Question, do you have the automotive plug conversion? If so, when was
> the last time you changed the plugs and what is the GAP setting? If
> you
> are using automotive plugs, make sure the gap is about .018 to .020
>
> Agreed that the BOOST COIL (shower of sparks... My favorite discussion
> :-) is highly suspect. HIGHLY SUSPECT. If the engine RUNS ... Then
> you probably do NOT have a pressure carb problem. Especially if you
> can
> manually prop the engine.
>
> Don't worry about system pressure falling to zero ... Mine always has.
> Never an issue.
>
> Fuel coming out of the INTAKE DRAIN after the engine runs means that
> you
> did not have it open AS YOU WERE PRIMING BEFORE START, and the excess
> fuel collected in the intake drain hoses and remained there for the
> whole time. This is NORMAL. Mine does the exact same thing. The way
> to avoid that is to have the INTAKE DRAIN OUTLET PETCOCK OPEN as you
> are
> priming. Prime it, and then pull the engine through. You will get
> fuel
> coming out of the intake drain, as I have said. This is a very good
> method to AVOID over-priming. It becomes almost impossible to do,
> because the excess fuel has no place to collect, and just drains out
> the
> bottom. I have been doing it that way for 10 years.
>
> You should not start the engine with the MAGS ON BOTH using the air
> starter. Yes, it can work, but it can also cause some damage if you
> happen to get unlucky. Hand propping, .... Should also be done with
> the
> shower of sparks, but it seems clear that IT IS NOT WORKING.
>
> A good mech should be able to tell you how to check that. But I have
> had the same problems and it can be a real pain in the butt to
> troubleshoot. There are some articles written on how you can ADJUST
> the
> shower of sparks vibrator coil POINTS to make it work better. If all
> else fails, check the wire from it to the mag, and then buy a new
> shower
> of sparks unit from Doug Sapp. The CJ-6A and M-14's units are
> IDENTICAL.
>
> Turn off the main air valve... Run the flaps up and down to drain out
> any residual air. Now push the start button and listen for the BUZZ.
> How loud is it? A safe test... The shower of sparks goes to the mag
> on
> the left which on my 50 is the front plugs. Pull all the front plugs.
> Now the engine is safe. Take one of the plug wires and hold it about
> 1/4 inch from a ground. Push the starter button and rotate the prop
> manually until it gets to that wire and LOOK AT THE SPARK! You can
> also
> do this by leaving the wire connected to the plug and then holding the
> plug case to ground and then looking at the actual spark on the spark
> plug itself. See how strong it is. If it is not really actively
> BRIGHT, then you have found the problem. You can adjust the booster
> coil contacts and try to make the spark stronger.
>
> Odd are about 80% that this is your problem. Not the carb.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Wobschall
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:02
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
>
> Sounds like the shower of sparks or the wire from it to the left
> magneto
> to me. Has that part been checked?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:01 AM, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
>
> I am having trouble starting my Yak 52. I originally had
> problems with the air starter, and we had to prop start the engine,
> usually on second or third pull. . Now that the starter is fixed, we
> seem to be having some fuel problems. I am using up all of the air in
> the bottle and still no start. Eventually we can get a pull start. I
> have installed the oil drain kit, and after turning the engine over,
> fuel is accumulating in the manifold. A large amount of fuel runs
> out of
> the drain when opened.. This is what we are seeing.
>
> Pressurising the fuel system with primer to the left, about 10
> strokes, to get pressure registering. However, the fuel pressure drops
> off almost immediately, unlike our other Yak.
>
> About 5 strokes to the right to prime the cylinders, sometimes
> pulling the prop a blade between strokes, all as per recommended
> procedure. Ambient air temp about 18C, and we are careful to not
> overprime.
>
> Using the air starter, after about 10 rotations and with mags on
> both it still won't start. On checking the oil drain cock, fuel runs
> out, maybe 50 to 100 mls. We are basically repeating that until
> running
> out of air, and then topping up with external AIR bottle.
>
> When we can eventually get it going by pull start, it runs and
> flies well. It starts using the air starter, (reluctantly) when
> warm. On
> shutdown, and on opening the drain cock, again fuel comes out.
>
> It seems we are flooding the engine and we suspect it may be
> something within the carburettor that is sticking. Thoughts anyone? We
> have the carburettor cutaway poster, and the M14p Maint manual to
> guide
> us, but the mechanic is reluctant to open the carbie without knowing
> that this is the most likely cause, and if there is a simple fix to
> clean a possibly sticky needle valve, if that is what it could be?
>
> If anyone has had similar problems, you help is much appreciated
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Bill Lang
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
> .
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
> ntribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 06:15:39 AM PST US
From: "George Coy" <george@gesoco.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
CAS makes a solid state replacement for the shower of sparks. There is a
service bulletin on their instillation . Check it out on the web site
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
Hello,
some time ago I found a perfect replacement for the buzzer coil. It is a 24
V coil with buzzer, military equipment. It produces half an inch spark. They
turn up occasionally, new old stock, vacuum packed in aluminium. So, if
nobody objects, Id put a short notice here to make them available to the
Yakkers. I am a private, no dealer, but a little profit should be allright ?
At the moment there is one to give away, offers by PM.
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312806#312806
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/buzzer_contacts_333.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_coil_209.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contacts_185.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_coil_143.jpg
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 01:26:07 PM PST US
From: Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: generator intermittent
I have a stock CJ-6A and the generator works about half the time... some fl
ights it comes online at 1=2C000 rpm=2C some flights when the RPM gets high
er=2C and some flights not at all.
Once it starts working it seems to stay working.
I've looked at the brushes and they seem fine. All other electrical connec
tions seem ok.
Any suggestions as to what to check next?
Thanks=2C
Jon
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 01:51:25 PM PST US
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times then another 4 after
priming. That gets the juices flowing before that aerobatics.
Life is good!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:25:28 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 08:25:28 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 08:27:25 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil drain.
It
is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just using the prop as a
lever.
So it is actually not all just about how many times you pull the prop
through,
but also how you are holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are
pulling it, etc.
Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others recommend
fixing
the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut off valve.
There's nothing wrong with oil shut off valves to the engine, regardless of
what
anyone might thing. The A-26 Invader had electric oil shut off valves for
both
motors. And... one recently had the circuit breaker pop, and the gents
managed
to ruin both engines on start. And this was a VERY experienced crew.
And a YAK-52 at New Bern had a guy bend the rod so bad with a hydraulic lock
that
it blow the rod right out the cylinder and ruined the case IN FLIGHT.
I don't think it is the MOD that is bad, or any engineering type that
designed
it. What typically happens is that the OPERATOR of the aircraft CHANGES the
modification
in one way or another in order to save money, or make what he or she
feels is an "intended improvement". Usually with parts from Autozone.
After all, these aircraft are Experimental and we take advantage of that
fact all
the time. Modifications are part of the nature of owning an Experimental
Aircraft,
at least in my opinion. The alternative is having the FAA even MORE
involved.
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 4:49 PM
> "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times
> then another 4 after
> priming. That gets the juices flowing before that
> aerobatics.
> Life is good!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the
> stuff guys in
> here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I
> try to stick
> with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground
> crew
> having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain).
> Like Hal, I
> also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> <gill.g@gpimail.com>
> >
> > You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto
> is: "If it is not
> > broken,
> > take it apart and fix it."
> >
> > Gill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of William
> > Halverson
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> Halverson
> > <william@netpros.net>
> >
> >
> > Jesus.
> >
> > Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
> >
> > I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of
> blades. If I
> > get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to
> sell her.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > YAK55
> > N355YK
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> > MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry
> >> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >>
> >>
> >> Before starting the engine after some rather
> extensive work, a good
> >> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when
> the engine
> >> started. The prop struck him taking a good
> chunk out of the blade
> >> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell
> to the ground and the
> >> aircraft started rolling forward. I was
> standing there and actually
> >> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> >> moving. After he was pulled away by other
> folks at the airport I
> >> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> >> were already OFF. I then went to pull the
> fuel shut-off handle but
> >> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL
> SHUT OFF. So by
> >> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting
> off the oil. Not
> >> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:36:45 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they
are an
accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> >Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:52 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:52 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
I agree that one should NEVER leave the aircraft when it's running
(who does that, anyway?), but parking brakes have other purposes, such
as, oh, PARKING (chocks not always available immediately, or needed
for a short stay). Also, I always use the parking brake during pull
through... especially when it might have been flown recently, because
if somehow the mags are on (passengers anyone) and you failed to check
it, at least the plane wont be advancing on you while it's trying to
chop you up. Lastly, even though I'm in the plane, I set the parking
brake during start-up and shut-down run-ups.
On Sep 19, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:
>
> I concur with that, and I use my small mod only for starting up the
> aircraft. When needed I can add another prime or two, without
> worrying that
> the aircraft might jump forward. You never know who might be foolish
> enough
> to stand in front of the prop ... even after shouting a loud "prop
> cleaar
> ...".
>
> Jan
>
> PS: I would NEVER leave an aircraft alone with a running engine, and
> parking
> brakes set, like some do.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: zondag 19 september 2010 5:33
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think
> they
> are an accident looking to happen.
>
> Mark
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>
>> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
>> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>>
>> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
>> a velcro strap
>> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
>> hold the brake.
>> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
>> the strap
>> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
>> this is unclear I
>> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
>> the stick all the
>> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
>> is in the way.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
>> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
>> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>
>> Det Cherry Point,
>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
>> 50. :-) But I have
>> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>
>> >
>>
>> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
>> helps the rolling
>> forward factor.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
>> Cherry Point,
>> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>>
>> CIV Det Cherry
>>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>
>>>
>>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
>> work, a good
>>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
>> engine
>>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
>> out of the blade
>>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
>> the ground and the
>>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
>> there and actually
>>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
>> aircraft from
>>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
>> at the airport I
>>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
>> engine. Both MAGS
>>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
>> shut-off handle but
>>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
>> OFF. So by
>>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
>> the oil. Not
>>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
>> results.
>>>
>>> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
>> working the
>>> way they should. Obviously sometimes they
>> don't. Our M-14's are
>>> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
>> are turned off by
>>> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
>> to happen is for
>>> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
>> able to be
>>> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
>> wire failure,
>>> whatever. The engine will not shut off.
>> This leaves the Emergency
>>> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
>> engine.
>>> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
>> not immediately
>>> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
>> oil shut-off valve
>>> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
>> Fuel Handle,
>>> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>>>
>>> To finish my particular story, I did just that.
>> I pulled the shut-
>>> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
>> watched the oil
>>> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
>> back in because I
>>> just could not stand to ruin an engine.
>> Especially THIS engine.
>>>
>>> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
>> left mag which
>>> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
>> was open to the
>>> switch.
>>>
>>> Mark Bitterlich
>>>
>>> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
>> emergency fuel shut
>>> off handle after every flight. I personally
>> believe that the
>>> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
>> help prevent
>>> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
>> believe it testing it
>>> every once in awhile! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>
>>> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
>> not the fuel
>>> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Kimball Enterprises in
>> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
>>> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
>> interlocks with a
>>> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
>> start valve.
>>> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
>> because the
>>> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
>> off valve.
>> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
>>> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original
>> Message -----
>>> From: Vic
>> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Thursday,
>> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
>>> Subject:
>> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List
>> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> to stop oil
>> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
>> which
>>> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
>> the photos, I
>>> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
>> on the right
>>> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
>> The lever on
>>> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
>> tap on the
>>> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
>> petrol after
>>> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
>> No more need to
>>> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
>> forget to turn on
>>> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
>> opened in the
>>> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
>> added a safety
>>> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
>> "open"position, in case,
>>> something should break.
>>> There may be the
>> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
>> for a
>>> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
>> done. I dont
>>> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
>> for an
>>> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
>> obstacles, but the
>>> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>>>
>>> Vic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic
>> online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> p;
>> Navigator Photoshare, and
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>> ">http://www.matronics========================<;
>> via the Web
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> _p;
>> generous bsp;
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?Yak-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
>> bution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
If you're pulling them through from the middle third of the blades,
you'll know if something's up.
On Sep 18, 2010, at 11:43 PM, William Halverson wrote:
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
> the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
>
> Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
>
> Hal
>
>
> At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>>
>> Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>> drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>> using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about
>> how many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are
>> holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it,
>> etc.
>>
>> Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>> recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil
>> shut off valve.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Nay, just get a flat head Lycoming if that fearful of hydraulic lock.
Between the options of installing an oil cutoff valve with an electrical
interrupter linked to the mag switch is a great idea. An electric sump pump
that is run at shutdown in conjunction with the oil cutoff valve is another
great idea also. Simply draining the sump after shutdown keeps with my
belief in the KISS principle. But, even the KISS principle can bite you on
the ass if you arrived at the field with you head behind the power curve.
Pouring the gallon of oil back into tank is an entertaining experience to
say the least after the plane that I thought did not have a problem with
its' internal oil check valve is enlightening to say the least. So much for
the IRAN experience. So, the bottom line simply is trust nothing to be
totally fail safe. Now saying that living by the kiss principle, having
intake drains installed, draining the sump, pulling a min of 12 blades,
priming the cylinder side with the intake drain stop cock open while
watching for more oil to run out, being patient while the oil drains out of
the intake drain, and then closing the intake drain followed by pulling 4
more blades has worked for me through the last sortie. Will it work for this
afternoon? I don't know but I hope so.
Bottom line, if the process works for you and meets the common sense sniff
test then use it at your own risk. The Russians wrote the checklist and
pilot's handbook based on their years of experience with these aircraft.
Those techniques are tried and tested but also remember there was a ground
crew to prep and launch the aircraft so not to many pilots were going in and
out of the cockpit to pull blades, prime and pull more blades.
So since we all over time have learned what 70 to 80 lbs per cylinder X's a
min of 8 blades feels like if it starts to feel firmer as you are pulling
through STOP. Double check what you are doing. If you have an intake drain
make sure it is open. BUT, the best cure is open the cowl, pull the plugs,
and intake drain plugs. Now that can be simple or a real pain in the ass
depending on how complex you have gotten with the prevention of hydraulic
leak thing. Pulling plugs is however the definitive cure for hydraulic lock
though.
So, if it feels different to pull on the blade then stop and drain the
cylinders by pulling the plugs on the bottom cylinders. That way you know
for sure the hydraulic lock is cleared. Now granted, your O'Dark thirty
launch is going to be delayed for a couple hours while you do that though.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Danged, guess I got lucky when my 74 came with a parking brake leaver on the
stick like those found in the back seat of a 52. Who says the experimental
show did not exist in the DOSAF?!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 1:57 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I concur with that, and I use my small mod only for starting up the
aircraft. When needed I can add another prime or two, without worrying that
the aircraft might jump forward. You never know who might be foolish enough
to stand in front of the prop ... even after shouting a loud "prop cleaar
...".
Jan
PS: I would NEVER leave an aircraft alone with a running engine, and parking
brakes set, like some do.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
Sent: zondag 19 september 2010 5:33
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they
are an accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> >Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Doc, I believe most 50's originally came with the "parking brake" feature, but
they were REMOVED by the Russians, for some reason like our version of an "AD".
The man who would know all about that would be Richard Goode. He knows ALL
the different updates to that airplane! I think there might have been a FOD
or some other safety issues dealing with it. That is a wild A__ guess based on
something I read ages and ages ago. Check with him.
Wouldn't surprise me to find your aircraft unsafe. HA! Just kidding Doc!
Jan, it is not an issue with me. I have hydraulic TOE BRAKES. They work even
when the air pressure is at ZERO. Make wheel landings MUCH easier. Probably
the best mod I have seen on this aircraft and the work FLAWLESSLY. The mod also
put on Cleveland wheels (I can now use Goodyear tires) and disk brakes.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Kemp M.D.
Sent: Sun 9/19/2010 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Danged, guess I got lucky when my 74 came with a parking brake leaver on the
stick like those found in the back seat of a 52. Who says the experimental
show did not exist in the DOSAF?!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 1:57 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I concur with that, and I use my small mod only for starting up the
aircraft. When needed I can add another prime or two, without worrying that
the aircraft might jump forward. You never know who might be foolish enough
to stand in front of the prop ... even after shouting a loud "prop cleaar
...".
Jan
PS: I would NEVER leave an aircraft alone with a running engine, and parking
brakes set, like some do.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
Sent: zondag 19 september 2010 5:33
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they
are an accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> > Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics======================== <http://www.matronics========================/> <;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
See? It's all a matter of personal approach. I am 100 THOUSAND per cent sure
Eric that this works for you. ME? I pull from the very END of the blade. But
as I come around into compression I am not really PULLING. I am slowly with
my fingertips inching it around very slowly FEELING for how much resistance it
has. For me, that lever advantage also adds to what I can feel with my fingertips.
It's all about experience and what works for "you". There really is
no "perfect way", but just what works... period.... tof the person involved.
I believe the utimate method is just being VERY CAREFUL and realize what can happen
and what you are trying to "feel".
Personally, I look just slightly askance at the "pull so and so many blades" for
every single type of occasion. It's not the number of blades really to me,
other than to make sure all 9 cylinders have gone through at least one compression
stroke of course, but rather how it feels as you are moving the prop through,
and then how much oil I see coming out of the exhaust.
It's hard to put experience into the written word.
When it comes to this particular subject, there is so MUCH advice, a lot of it
DIFFERENT, all of it technically CORRECT, and hard to figure out what is the "best
way".
I didn't know hydraulic "Lock" from the ones sold by the Master Company when I
first got my airplane. Now I know exactly what it feels like when I get even
CLOSE to it.
Hard to explain how I got there. :-)
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Sun 9/19/2010 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
If you're pulling them through from the middle third of the blades,
you'll know if something's up.
On Sep 18, 2010, at 11:43 PM, William Halverson wrote:
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
> the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
>
> Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
>
> Hal
>
>
> At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>>
>> Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>> drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>> using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about
>> how many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are
>> holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it,
>> etc.
>>
>> Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>> recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil
>> shut off valve.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | generator intermittent |
Flash the field on the generator first. That is the easiest first thing to do
and you just might get lucky.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jon Boede
Sent: Sat 9/18/2010 4:20 PM
Subject: Yak-List: generator intermittent
I have a stock CJ-6A and the generator works about half the time... some flights
it comes online at 1,000 rpm, some flights when the RPM gets higher, and some
flights not at all.
Once it starts working it seems to stay working.
I've looked at the brushes and they seem fine. All other electrical connections
seem ok.
Any suggestions as to what to check next?
Thanks,
Jon
Message 11
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| Subject: | Oil shut-off valve |
Eric, you probably won't like this and.. I am sorry for not agreeing, but I have
to say I totally disagree with you in as polite a way as possible.
If we stay with stock brakes in the YAK series aircraft that use COMPRESSED AIR
to actuate the brakes, then when that compressed air goes away... your parking
brake all of a sudden "isn't". I have sitting in my hangar a spare YAK-50.
I don't advertise that fact much because everyone always wants to borrow parts
off it, and sadly I have been burnt by a few folks doing that, so I simply
will not do it anymore. But the interesting thing is: A guy got out to start
that particular airplane with the parking brake on. It starts. The air was
depleted from the system. It started. It ran at speed into a hangar and ripped
the wings right off. Picture/proof sitting in my hangar.
Relying on parking brakes for the exact reasons you just mentioned has in my mind
an element of danger that is not required.
If "somehow the mags are on" there is also a the possibility that "somehow there
is no air either", and that means no brakes.
Chocks/chains/ropes to me those are the only answers. And preferably two out
of three.
My words are not going to change your opinion and they are not meant to. Why I
am writing this is simply to put a bigger picture into the view of the discussion.
I think it carries a little bit of weight when someone says: "Parking Brakes can
be dangerous, especially if you trust them to keep the airplane from moving
when you are not in it". When you give that as a "theory" warning, of course
that is one thing and doesn't carry all that much of an impact.
When you show pictures of one of the must beautiful YAKS ever out there, totally
ruined by someone who relied on the parking brake ... it carries a lot more.
I look at that airplane all the time, and I guess that is why I am so much against
parking brakes AT ALL. But, I will readily admit to being overly cautious
because of looking at that wreck every time I fly.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Sun 9/19/2010 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I agree that one should NEVER leave the aircraft when it's running
(who does that, anyway?), but parking brakes have other purposes, such
as, oh, PARKING (chocks not always available immediately, or needed
for a short stay). Also, I always use the parking brake during pull
through... especially when it might have been flown recently, because
if somehow the mags are on (passengers anyone) and you failed to check
it, at least the plane wont be advancing on you while it's trying to
chop you up. Lastly, even though I'm in the plane, I set the parking
brake during start-up and shut-down run-ups.
On Sep 19, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:
>
> I concur with that, and I use my small mod only for starting up the
> aircraft. When needed I can add another prime or two, without
> worrying that
> the aircraft might jump forward. You never know who might be foolish
> enough
> to stand in front of the prop ... even after shouting a loud "prop
> cleaar
> ...".
>
> Jan
>
> PS: I would NEVER leave an aircraft alone with a running engine, and
> parking
> brakes set, like some do.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
> Sent: zondag 19 september 2010 5:33
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think
> they
> are an accident looking to happen.
>
> Mark
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>
>> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
>> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>>
>> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
>> a velcro strap
>> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
>> hold the brake.
>> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
>> the strap
>> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
>> this is unclear I
>> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
>> the stick all the
>> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
>> is in the way.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
>> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
>> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>
>> Det Cherry Point,
>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
>> 50. :-) But I have
>> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>
>> >
>>
>> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
>> helps the rolling
>> forward factor.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
>> Cherry Point,
>> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>>
>> CIV Det Cherry
>>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>
>>>
>>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
>> work, a good
>>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
>> engine
>>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
>> out of the blade
>>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
>> the ground and the
>>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
>> there and actually
>>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
>> aircraft from
>>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
>> at the airport I
>>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
>> engine. Both MAGS
>>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
>> shut-off handle but
>>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
>> OFF. So by
>>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
>> the oil. Not
>>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
>> results.
>>>
>>> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
>> working the
>>> way they should. Obviously sometimes they
>> don't. Our M-14's are
>>> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
>> are turned off by
>>> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
>> to happen is for
>>> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
>> able to be
>>> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
>> wire failure,
>>> whatever. The engine will not shut off.
>> This leaves the Emergency
>>> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
>> engine.
>>> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
>> not immediately
>>> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
>> oil shut-off valve
>>> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
>> Fuel Handle,
>>> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>>>
>>> To finish my particular story, I did just that.
>> I pulled the shut-
>>> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
>> watched the oil
>>> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
>> back in because I
>>> just could not stand to ruin an engine.
>> Especially THIS engine.
>>>
>>> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
>> left mag which
>>> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
>> was open to the
>>> switch.
>>>
>>> Mark Bitterlich
>>>
>>> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
>> emergency fuel shut
>>> off handle after every flight. I personally
>> believe that the
>>> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
>> help prevent
>>> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
>> believe it testing it
>>> every once in awhile! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>
>>> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
>> not the fuel
>>> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Kimball Enterprises in
>> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
>>> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
>> interlocks with a
>>> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
>> start valve.
>>> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
>> because the
>>> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
>> off valve.
>> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
>>> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original
>> Message -----
>>> From: Vic
>> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Thursday,
>> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
>>> Subject:
>> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List
>> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> to stop oil
>> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
>> which
>>> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
>> the photos, I
>>> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
>> on the right
>>> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
>> The lever on
>>> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
>> tap on the
>>> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
>> petrol after
>>> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
>> No more need to
>>> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
>> forget to turn on
>>> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
>> opened in the
>>> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
>> added a safety
>>> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
>> "open"position, in case,
>>> something should break.
>>> There may be the
>> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
>> for a
>>> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
>> done. I dont
>>> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
>> for an
>>> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
>> obstacles, but the
>>> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>>>
>>> Vic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic
>> online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> p;
>> Navigator Photoshare, and
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>> ">http://www.matronics======================== <http://www.matronics========================/> <;
>> via the Web
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>> _p;
>> generous bsp;
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?Yak-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
>> bution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
Good idea Vic. I'd personally like to know what you come up with as a solution
if you don't mind telling. I've looked at the same issue myself and have seen
a number of solutions.
Just because some might be interested, one of the best solutions I saw was with
a lever you had to reach in with BY HAND through the back of the engine cowl
in order to open the oil valve. Now that by itself was not so hot, but what made
it REALLY cool is that it was also hooked to a lever arm that caused a BIG
BRIGHT RED ROUND ROD to come out the top of the cowl right in front of the pilots
eyes. Pretty darn hard to miss when starting the engine.
My personal idea is:
I don't like messing with the P leads, but one thought I had was to use a MECHANICAL
SWITCH (no relays... although, yes, that would make it easier) and instead
of using a small microswitch that interupted the starter switch (ala the other
method) instead a hard wired mechanical switch that GROUNDS THE P LEADS!
If the oil lever is CLOSED the "P" leads are GROUNDED. No oil, no engine start.
PERIOD.
The only thing I don't like about that method is the idea of messing with the P
leads. One more thing to break on a system that is absolutely essential that
it works correctly. P leads are not something you really want to ever ground
out on you accidentally.
I have not come up with the exact parts for this idea. But I think it might be
worth thinking about some more.
Shutting off the oil after flight goes a LONG way towards minimizing the liklihood
of bad things happening, but all you have to do is screw up ONCE and good
bye engine. I'm trying to come up with a "fool proof design". So far, I've failed.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Vic
Sent: Fri 9/17/2010 8:03 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil shut-off valve
Hello ,
thank you all for your feedback about some side effects of my setup. Quite frankly,
I only had in mind to prevent starting the engine with oil valve closed.
And no, I did not think about an emergency shutdown in case a mag or two remained
hot because of a broken earth connection. I will keep the oil valve anyway
but am thinking of a way to close the fuel tap individually, but both valves
to open with a mechanical linkage. I do not like an electric workaround of this
problem, as some say, wires and switches do break. Anyway I keep you posted.
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312804#312804
Message 13
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| Subject: | generator intermittent |
Um... uh... ok. How do I do that? :-)
----------------------------------------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: generator intermittent
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:27:15 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Flash the field on the generator first. That is the easiest first thing to do
and you just might get lucky.
>
> Mark
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jon Boede
> Sent: Sat 9/18/2010 4:20 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: generator intermittent
>
>
> I have a stock CJ-6A and the generator works about half the time... some flights
it comes online at 1,000 rpm, some flights when the RPM gets higher, and some
flights not at all.
>
> Once it starts working it seems to stay working.
>
> I've looked at the brushes and they seem fine. All other electrical connections
seem ok.
>
> Any suggestions as to what to check next?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
Mark, I'm not confused about our relative experience levels, so I
attribute full weight and value to your opinions. I can certainly see
how disaster can happen when relying on parking brakes in different
circumstances, and of course, judicious aircraft positioning is always
wise during any start for that reason. However, I think there's some
confusion here: You said "The guy got out". I am saying you should
NEVER have a plane running without a pilot in it. I was ONLY referring
to the routine pulling-though of the prop with the mags and ignition
off (obviously not running) AND the parking brake on for extra safety.
I have even been known to turn off mags in both cockpits. Only a very
foolish person would hand-prop a plane that's out of the same air that
actuates the brakes. Similarly foolish would be getting out of a plane
while it's running.
I am also saying that when you're IN THE PLANE, it's good to have the
parking brake on, as you might let off while concentrating on other
cockpit tasks. If something goes wrong, you're in position to re-apply
the brakes or cut the mags. Of course, this is not as necessary with
toe brakes.
Third reason to use the parking brake: Until you find chocks or tie
downs. Just in case there's any confusion, the search for chocks and
tie downs would not be with the engine running.
On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:25 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Eric, you probably won't like this and.. I am sorry for not
> agreeing, but I have to say I totally disagree with you in as polite
> a way as possible.
>
> If we stay with stock brakes in the YAK series aircraft that use
> COMPRESSED AIR to actuate the brakes, then when that compressed air
> goes away... your parking brake all of a sudden "isn't". I have
> sitting in my hangar a spare YAK-50. I don't advertise that fact
> much because everyone always wants to borrow parts off it, and sadly
> I have been burnt by a few folks doing that, so I simply will not do
> it anymore. But the interesting thing is: A guy got out to start
> that particular airplane with the parking brake on. It starts.
> The air was depleted from the system. It started. It ran at speed
> into a hangar and ripped the wings right off. Picture/proof sitting
> in my hangar.
>
> Relying on parking brakes for the exact reasons you just mentioned
> has in my mind an element of danger that is not required.
>
> If "somehow the mags are on" there is also a the possibility that
> "somehow there is no air either", and that means no brakes.
>
> Chocks/chains/ropes to me those are the only answers. And
> preferably two out of three.
>
> My words are not going to change your opinion and they are not meant
> to. Why I am writing this is simply to put a bigger picture into
> the view of the discussion.
>
> I think it carries a little bit of weight when someone says:
> "Parking Brakes can be dangerous, especially if you trust them to
> keep the airplane from moving when you are not in it". When you
> give that as a "theory" warning, of course that is one thing and
> doesn't carry all that much of an impact.
>
> When you show pictures of one of the must beautiful YAKS ever out
> there, totally ruined by someone who relied on the parking brake ...
> it carries a lot more. I look at that airplane all the time, and I
> guess that is why I am so much against parking brakes AT ALL. But,
> I will readily admit to being overly cautious because of looking at
> that wreck every time I fly.
>
> Mark
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Sun 9/19/2010 6:48 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> >
>
> I agree that one should NEVER leave the aircraft when it's running
> (who does that, anyway?), but parking brakes have other purposes, such
> as, oh, PARKING (chocks not always available immediately, or needed
> for a short stay). Also, I always use the parking brake during pull
> through... especially when it might have been flown recently, because
> if somehow the mags are on (passengers anyone) and you failed to check
> it, at least the plane wont be advancing on you while it's trying to
> chop you up. Lastly, even though I'm in the plane, I set the parking
> brake during start-up and shut-down run-ups.
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:
>
>>
>> I concur with that, and I use my small mod only for starting up the
>> aircraft. When needed I can add another prime or two, without
>> worrying that
>> the aircraft might jump forward. You never know who might be foolish
>> enough
>> to stand in front of the prop ... even after shouting a loud "prop
>> cleaar
>> ...".
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> PS: I would NEVER leave an aircraft alone with a running engine, and
>> parking
>> brakes set, like some do.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
>> Sent: zondag 19 september 2010 5:33
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>
>>
>> Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think
>> they
>> are an accident looking to happen.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
>>> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>>>
>>> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
>>> a velcro strap
>>> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
>>> hold the brake.
>>> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
>>> the strap
>>> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
>>> this is unclear I
>>> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
>>> the stick all the
>>> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
>>> is in the way.
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
>>> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
>>> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>
>>> Det Cherry Point,
>>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>
>>> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
>>> 50. :-) But I have
>>> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
>>> helps the rolling
>>> forward factor.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
>>> Cherry Point,
>>> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>>>
>>> CIV Det Cherry
>>>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
>>> work, a good
>>>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
>>> engine
>>>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
>>> out of the blade
>>>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
>>> the ground and the
>>>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
>>> there and actually
>>>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
>>> aircraft from
>>>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
>>> at the airport I
>>>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
>>> engine. Both MAGS
>>>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
>>> shut-off handle but
>>>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
>>> OFF. So by
>>>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
>>> the oil. Not
>>>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
>>> results.
>>>>
>>>> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
>>> working the
>>>> way they should. Obviously sometimes they
>>> don't. Our M-14's are
>>>> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
>>> are turned off by
>>>> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
>>> to happen is for
>>>> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
>>> able to be
>>>> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
>>> wire failure,
>>>> whatever. The engine will not shut off.
>>> This leaves the Emergency
>>>> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
>>> engine.
>>>> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
>>> not immediately
>>>> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
>>> oil shut-off valve
>>>> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
>>> Fuel Handle,
>>>> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>>>>
>>>> To finish my particular story, I did just that.
>>> I pulled the shut-
>>>> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
>>> watched the oil
>>>> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
>>> back in because I
>>>> just could not stand to ruin an engine.
>>> Especially THIS engine.
>>>>
>>>> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
>>> left mag which
>>>> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
>>> was open to the
>>>> switch.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Bitterlich
>>>>
>>>> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
>>> emergency fuel shut
>>>> off handle after every flight. I personally
>>> believe that the
>>>> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
>>> help prevent
>>>> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
>>> believe it testing it
>>>> every once in awhile! :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>>
>>>> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
>>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>>
>>>> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
>>> not the fuel
>>>> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim Kimball Enterprises in
>>> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
>>>> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
>>> interlocks with a
>>>> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
>>> start valve.
>>>> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
>>> because the
>>>> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
>>> off valve.
>>> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
>>>> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original
>>> Message -----
>>>> From: Vic
>>> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
>>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday,
>>> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
>>>> Subject:
>>> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>>>
>>>> --> Yak-List
>>> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> to stop oil
>>> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
>>> which
>>>> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
>>> the photos, I
>>>> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
>>> on the right
>>>> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
>>> The lever on
>>>> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
>>> tap on the
>>>> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
>>> petrol after
>>>> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
>>> No more need to
>>>> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
>>> forget to turn on
>>>> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
>>> opened in the
>>>> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
>>> added a safety
>>>> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
>>> "open"position, in case,
>>>> something should break.
>>>> There may be the
>>> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
>>> for a
>>>> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
>>> done. I dont
>>>> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
>>> for an
>>>> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
>>> obstacles, but the
>>>> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>>>>
>>>> Vic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic
>>> online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attachments:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> p;
>>> Navigator Photoshare, and
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>> ">http://www.matronics======================== <http://www.matronics========================/
>>>> > <;
>>> via the Web
>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>>> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>>> _p;
>>> generous bsp;
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
>>> Navigator?Yak-List
>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/
>>>> > ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>>>>
>>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
>>> bution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forum -
>>> FAQ,
>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> List Contribution Web Site -
>>> -Matt
>>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
Agreed. When you know what you're doing, you can certainly pull on the
end of the blade. Just when you give dispensation, someone who's much
stronger than usual will manage to break something.
On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> See? It's all a matter of personal approach. I am 100 THOUSAND per
> cent sure Eric that this works for you. ME? I pull from the very
> END of the blade. But as I come around into compression I am not
> really PULLING. I am slowly with my fingertips inching it around
> very slowly FEELING for how much resistance it has. For me, that
> lever advantage also adds to what I can feel with my fingertips.
> It's all about experience and what works for "you". There really is
> no "perfect way", but just what works... period.... tof the person
> involved. I believe the utimate method is just being VERY CAREFUL
> and realize what can happen and what you are trying to "feel".
>
> Personally, I look just slightly askance at the "pull so and so many
> blades" for every single type of occasion. It's not the number of
> blades really to me, other than to make sure all 9 cylinders have
> gone through at least one compression stroke of course, but rather
> how it feels as you are moving the prop through, and then how much
> oil I see coming out of the exhaust.
>
> It's hard to put experience into the written word.
>
> When it comes to this particular subject, there is so MUCH advice, a
> lot of it DIFFERENT, all of it technically CORRECT, and hard to
> figure out what is the "best way".
>
> I didn't know hydraulic "Lock" from the ones sold by the Master
> Company when I first got my airplane. Now I know exactly what it
> feels like when I get even CLOSE to it.
>
> Hard to explain how I got there. :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Sun 9/19/2010 6:51 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> >
>
> If you're pulling them through from the middle third of the blades,
> you'll know if something's up.
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2010, at 11:43 PM, William Halverson wrote:
>
>> <william@netpros.net>
>>
>>
>> Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
>> the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
>>
>> Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>>
>>
>> At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>>> drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>>> using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about
>>> how many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are
>>> holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>>> recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil
>>> shut off valve.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | To unsubscribe from the "YAK list" |
Chris,
Use the following link to unsubscribe. Just scroll down to the unsubscribe
link and click on it and you're a dot.
Doc
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Go Flying
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:53 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Yak-List: RE: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10
I have decided to unsubscribe to the Matronics lists, there is nearly no
traffic and no content to red.
Chris Norman, CEO
www.digitalrealitycorp.com
owner www.goflying.co
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak-List Digest
Server
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 09/18/10
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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===============================================
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===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Yak-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 09/18/10: 12
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Jan Mevis)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Eric Wobschall)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Starting Problems Yak 52 (Eric Wobschall)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks (George Coy)
5. 01:26 PM - generator intermittent (Jon Boede)
6. 01:51 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
8. 08:25 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
9. 08:27 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
10. 08:36 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (Yak Pilot)
11. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
12. 08:45 PM - Re: Oil shut-off valve (William Halverson)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:49:22 AM PST US
From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple: a velcro strap
(like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I hold the brake.
When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing the strap
(without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If this is unclear I
'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on the stick all the
time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand is in the way.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my 50. :-) But I have
toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it helps the rolling
forward factor.
On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
> We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always working the
> way they should. Obviously sometimes they don't. Our M-14's are
> shut off by turning off the mags. The mags are turned off by
> providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs to happen is for
> one of those wires to break and the engine will not be able to be
> shut down by the normal method. Switch failure, wire failure,
> whatever. The engine will not shut off. This leaves the Emergency
> Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the engine.
> However, when you pull this handle, the engine does not immediately
> shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your oil shut-off valve
> connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency Fuel Handle,
> then you will be running your engine without oil.
>
> To finish my particular story, I did just that. I pulled the shut-
> off handle out, the engine kept running and I then watched the oil
> pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle back in because I
> just could not stand to ruin an engine. Especially THIS engine.
>
> After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the left mag which
> killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire was open to the
> switch.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the emergency fuel shut
> off handle after every flight. I personally believe that the
> pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to help prevent
> diaphragms from drying out. However, I do believe it testing it
> every once in awhile! :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> I have also heard varying opinions about whether or not the fuel
> valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim Kimball Enterprises in Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> shut of kit for quite some time. The valve interlocks with a
> microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air start valve.
> If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started because the
> microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut off valve.
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vic <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> Hello,
> to stop oil draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
which
> works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on the photos, I
> added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump on the right
> side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape. The lever on
> the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol tap on the
> left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the petrol after
> engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time. No more need to
> drain the crank case before start. You just cannot forget to turn on
> the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be opened in the
> cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I added a safety
> spring to the ball valve, pulling in the "open"position, in case,
> something should break.
> There may be the need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
for a
> straight pushrod between both valves but it can be done. I dont
> know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need for an
> intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear obstacles, but the
> system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
>
>
> p; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ">http://www.matronics========================<; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:34:33 AM PST US
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 05:51:59 AM PST US
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
I do the same thing. Drains open. Pull through 8+ blades. Preflight.
Pressurize carb monitoring fuel pressure gage (not even sure if that's
needed), 2 strokes, 2 blades, 2 strokes, 2 strokes... and then I will
see a trickle of fuel... then 4+ strokes. When starting, I re-
pressurize carb (takes about 1 stroke, and leave the primer out on
prime (right side on the 52). I will then give it a shot if needed
before start, and push it in after start if it didn't need it. Don't
forget to lock it in the middle, or it will run rough and gobble fuel.
If I have flown recently, priming between blades can be dispensed
with, but don't forget to pull through at least 8 blades. If you JUST
shut it off, you might skip it, but if it's been a few minutes and
still hot, you don't want to touch the prop for a while.... it can
fire on you, and some say it scores the pistons.
On Sep 17, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> It is not unusual after giving it FIVE strokes of prime, to have the
> excess fuel run out of your intake drain outlet. It is very hard to
> over-prime the engine IF, and I repeat IF, you have an intake drain
> kit
> installed and the intake drain is clear of oil. In fact, that is
> one of
> the thing I check on starting. When I give it a few strokes of
> prime, I
> EXPECT to see fuel coming out of the intake drain outlet. If I don't,
> then there is probably a lot of oil in there and I need to rethink
> starting the engine.
>
> Question, do you have the automotive plug conversion? If so, when was
> the last time you changed the plugs and what is the GAP setting? If
> you
> are using automotive plugs, make sure the gap is about .018 to .020
>
> Agreed that the BOOST COIL (shower of sparks... My favorite discussion
> :-) is highly suspect. HIGHLY SUSPECT. If the engine RUNS ... Then
> you probably do NOT have a pressure carb problem. Especially if you
> can
> manually prop the engine.
>
> Don't worry about system pressure falling to zero ... Mine always has.
> Never an issue.
>
> Fuel coming out of the INTAKE DRAIN after the engine runs means that
> you
> did not have it open AS YOU WERE PRIMING BEFORE START, and the excess
> fuel collected in the intake drain hoses and remained there for the
> whole time. This is NORMAL. Mine does the exact same thing. The way
> to avoid that is to have the INTAKE DRAIN OUTLET PETCOCK OPEN as you
> are
> priming. Prime it, and then pull the engine through. You will get
> fuel
> coming out of the intake drain, as I have said. This is a very good
> method to AVOID over-priming. It becomes almost impossible to do,
> because the excess fuel has no place to collect, and just drains out
> the
> bottom. I have been doing it that way for 10 years.
>
> You should not start the engine with the MAGS ON BOTH using the air
> starter. Yes, it can work, but it can also cause some damage if you
> happen to get unlucky. Hand propping, .... Should also be done with
> the
> shower of sparks, but it seems clear that IT IS NOT WORKING.
>
> A good mech should be able to tell you how to check that. But I have
> had the same problems and it can be a real pain in the butt to
> troubleshoot. There are some articles written on how you can ADJUST
> the
> shower of sparks vibrator coil POINTS to make it work better. If all
> else fails, check the wire from it to the mag, and then buy a new
> shower
> of sparks unit from Doug Sapp. The CJ-6A and M-14's units are
> IDENTICAL.
>
> Turn off the main air valve... Run the flaps up and down to drain out
> any residual air. Now push the start button and listen for the BUZZ.
> How loud is it? A safe test... The shower of sparks goes to the mag
> on
> the left which on my 50 is the front plugs. Pull all the front plugs.
> Now the engine is safe. Take one of the plug wires and hold it about
> 1/4 inch from a ground. Push the starter button and rotate the prop
> manually until it gets to that wire and LOOK AT THE SPARK! You can
> also
> do this by leaving the wire connected to the plug and then holding the
> plug case to ground and then looking at the actual spark on the spark
> plug itself. See how strong it is. If it is not really actively
> BRIGHT, then you have found the problem. You can adjust the booster
> coil contacts and try to make the spark stronger.
>
> Odd are about 80% that this is your problem. Not the carb.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Wobschall
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:02
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting Problems Yak 52
>
> Sounds like the shower of sparks or the wire from it to the left
> magneto
> to me. Has that part been checked?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:01 AM, Bill Lang wrote:
>
>
>
> I am having trouble starting my Yak 52. I originally had
> problems with the air starter, and we had to prop start the engine,
> usually on second or third pull. . Now that the starter is fixed, we
> seem to be having some fuel problems. I am using up all of the air in
> the bottle and still no start. Eventually we can get a pull start. I
> have installed the oil drain kit, and after turning the engine over,
> fuel is accumulating in the manifold. A large amount of fuel runs
> out of
> the drain when opened.. This is what we are seeing.
>
> Pressurising the fuel system with primer to the left, about 10
> strokes, to get pressure registering. However, the fuel pressure drops
> off almost immediately, unlike our other Yak.
>
> About 5 strokes to the right to prime the cylinders, sometimes
> pulling the prop a blade between strokes, all as per recommended
> procedure. Ambient air temp about 18C, and we are careful to not
> overprime.
>
> Using the air starter, after about 10 rotations and with mags on
> both it still won't start. On checking the oil drain cock, fuel runs
> out, maybe 50 to 100 mls. We are basically repeating that until
> running
> out of air, and then topping up with external AIR bottle.
>
> When we can eventually get it going by pull start, it runs and
> flies well. It starts using the air starter, (reluctantly) when
> warm. On
> shutdown, and on opening the drain cock, again fuel comes out.
>
> It seems we are flooding the engine and we suspect it may be
> something within the carburettor that is sticking. Thoughts anyone? We
> have the carburettor cutaway poster, and the M14p Maint manual to
> guide
> us, but the mechanic is reluctant to open the carbie without knowing
> that this is the most likely cause, and if there is a simple fix to
> clean a possibly sticky needle valve, if that is what it could be?
>
> If anyone has had similar problems, you help is much appreciated
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Bill Lang
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
> .
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
> ntribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 06:15:39 AM PST US
From: "George Coy" <george@gesoco.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
CAS makes a solid state replacement for the shower of sparks. There is a
service bulletin on their instillation . Check it out on the web site
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Buzzer coil / Shower of sparks
Hello,
some time ago I found a perfect replacement for the buzzer coil. It is a 24
V coil with buzzer, military equipment. It produces half an inch spark. They
turn up occasionally, new old stock, vacuum packed in aluminium. So, if
nobody objects, Id put a short notice here to make them available to the
Yakkers. I am a private, no dealer, but a little profit should be allright ?
At the moment there is one to give away, offers by PM.
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312806#312806
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/buzzer_contacts_333.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_coil_209.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/contacts_185.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_coil_143.jpg
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 01:26:07 PM PST US
From: Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: generator intermittent
I have a stock CJ-6A and the generator works about half the time... some fl
ights it comes online at 1=2C000 rpm=2C some flights when the RPM gets high
er=2C and some flights not at all.
Once it starts working it seems to stay working.
I've looked at the brushes and they seem fine. All other electrical connec
tions seem ok.
Any suggestions as to what to check next?
Thanks=2C
Jon
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 01:51:25 PM PST US
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times then another 4 after
priming. That gets the juices flowing before that aerobatics.
Life is good!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the stuff guys in
here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I try to stick
with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground crew
having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain). Like Hal, I
also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not
> broken,
> take it apart and fix it."
>
> Gill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Halverson
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> <william@netpros.net>
>
>
> Jesus.
>
> Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
> I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
> get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
> Hal
>
> YAK55
> N355YK
>
>
> At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>> Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
>> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
>> started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
>> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
>> aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
>> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
>> moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
>> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
>> were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
>> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
>> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
>> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:25:28 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 08:25:28 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Well, I do have an MSNE, but I am a pilot too.
At 11:14 AM 9/17/2010, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
>You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto is: "If it is not broken,
>take it apart and fix it."
>
>Gill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
>Jesus.
>
>Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
>
>I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of blades. If I
>get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to sell her.
>
>Hal
>
>YAK55
>N355YK
>
>
>At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>MALS-14 64E wrote:
> >Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> >Before starting the engine after some rather extensive work, a good
> >friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the engine
> >started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk out of the blade
> >as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to the ground and the
> >aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing there and actually
> >saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the aircraft from
> >moving. After he was pulled away by other folks at the airport I
> >went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the engine. Both MAGS
> >were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel shut-off handle but
> >it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT OFF. So by
> >pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off the oil. Not
> >exactly the same design Vic has, but the same results.
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5460 (20100918) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 08:27:25 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil drain.
It
is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just using the prop as a
lever.
So it is actually not all just about how many times you pull the prop
through,
but also how you are holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are
pulling it, etc.
Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others recommend
fixing
the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut off valve.
There's nothing wrong with oil shut off valves to the engine, regardless of
what
anyone might thing. The A-26 Invader had electric oil shut off valves for
both
motors. And... one recently had the circuit breaker pop, and the gents
managed
to ruin both engines on start. And this was a VERY experienced crew.
And a YAK-52 at New Bern had a guy bend the rod so bad with a hydraulic lock
that
it blow the rod right out the cylinder and ruined the case IN FLIGHT.
I don't think it is the MOD that is bad, or any engineering type that
designed
it. What typically happens is that the OPERATOR of the aircraft CHANGES the
modification
in one way or another in order to save money, or make what he or she
feels is an "intended improvement". Usually with parts from Autozone.
After all, these aircraft are Experimental and we take advantage of that
fact all
the time. Modifications are part of the nature of owning an Experimental
Aircraft,
at least in my opinion. The alternative is having the FAA even MORE
involved.
Mark Bitterlich
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 4:49 PM
> "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Great exercise also with pulling 70+ lbs 12 to 14 times
> then another 4 after
> priming. That gets the juices flowing before that
> aerobatics.
> Life is good!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I'm not an engineer either. If I attempted half of the
> stuff guys in
> here are doing, my plane would wind up in a bean field. I
> try to stick
> with the stock setup wherever possible with a few no ground
> crew
> having conveniences (like intake tubes to a Curtis drain).
> Like Hal, I
> also live by: "When in doubt, pull more blades".
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Gill Gutierrez wrote:
>
> <gill.g@gpimail.com>
> >
> > You are obviously not an ENGINEER. Their motto
> is: "If it is not
> > broken,
> > take it apart and fix it."
> >
> > Gill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of William
> > Halverson
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:19 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> Halverson
> > <william@netpros.net>
> >
> >
> > Jesus.
> >
> > Don't f--k with things if they aren't broke.
> >
> > I'll stay with my stock Yak55 and just pull a lot of
> blades. If I
> > get too old or infirm to pull blades, it's time to
> sell her.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > YAK55
> > N355YK
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:09 AM 9/16/2010, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> > MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry
> >> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >>
> >>
> >> Before starting the engine after some rather
> extensive work, a good
> >> friend of mine was pulling the prop through when
> the engine
> >> started. The prop struck him taking a good
> chunk out of the blade
> >> as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell
> to the ground and the
> >> aircraft started rolling forward. I was
> standing there and actually
> >> saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> >> moving. After he was pulled away by other
> folks at the airport I
> >> went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> >> were already OFF. I then went to pull the
> fuel shut-off handle but
> >> it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL
> SHUT OFF. So by
> >> pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting
> off the oil. Not
> >> exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:36:45 PM PST US
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Actually Jan, I don't believe in parking brakes. I personally think they
are an
accident looking to happen.
Mark
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 3:45 AM
> "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>
> For a parking brake in my 50, I use something very simple:
> a velcro strap
> (like the ones used to tie up network cables) with which I
> hold the brake.
> When ready to depart, I simply unlock the brake by removing
> the strap
> (without undoing it) and then shift it on the stick. (If
> this is unclear I
> 'll make a photo and post it to the list). I leave it on
> the stick all the
> time. It can't become an FOD while flying because your hand
> is in the way.
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: vrijdag 17 september 2010 6:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sukhoi's don't have a parking brake. Neither does my
> 50. :-) But I have
> toe hyd brakes on my 50 with Cleveland wheels and brakes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 17:07
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
>
> I set the brake when I'm pulling through. At least, it
> helps the rolling
> forward factor.
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> CIV Det Cherry
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> >
> > Before starting the engine after some rather extensive
> work, a good
> > friend of mine was pulling the prop through when the
> engine
> > started. The prop struck him taking a good chunk
> out of the blade
> > as well as his knee and leg. The gent fell to
> the ground and the
> > aircraft started rolling forward. I was standing
> there and actually
> > saw all this happen and ran out and stopped the
> aircraft from
> > moving. After he was pulled away by other folks
> at the airport I
> > went to the cockpit and tried to shut down the
> engine. Both MAGS
> > were already OFF. I then went to pull the fuel
> shut-off handle but
> > it was actually tied to another handle marked OIL SHUT
> OFF. So by
> > pulling the fuel handle, I would also be shutting off
> the oil. Not
> > exactly the same design Vic has, but the same
> results.
> >
> > We all tend to think of things in our aircraft always
> working the
> > way they should. Obviously sometimes they
> don't. Our M-14's are
> > shut off by turning off the mags. The mags
> are turned off by
> > providing a GROUND to a "P" lead. All that needs
> to happen is for
> > one of those wires to break and the engine will not be
> able to be
> > shut down by the normal method. Switch failure,
> wire failure,
> > whatever. The engine will not shut off.
> This leaves the Emergency
> > Fuel Shut-Off as the only real method of securing the
> engine.
> > However, when you pull this handle, the engine does
> not immediately
> > shut off, it runs for awhile. If you have your
> oil shut-off valve
> > connected so that it also shuts off with the Emergency
> Fuel Handle,
> > then you will be running your engine without oil.
> >
> > To finish my particular story, I did just that.
> I pulled the shut-
> > off handle out, the engine kept running and I then
> watched the oil
> > pressure dropping to zero. I shoved the handle
> back in because I
> > just could not stand to ruin an engine.
> Especially THIS engine.
> >
> > After chocking the airplane, I manually grounded the
> left mag which
> > killed the engine. The "P" lead grounding wire
> was open to the
> > switch.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> > P.s. Dennis, I do not believe in pulling the
> emergency fuel shut
> > off handle after every flight. I personally
> believe that the
> > pressure carb should have fuel to it at all times to
> help prevent
> > diaphragms from drying out. However, I do
> believe it testing it
> > every once in awhile! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>
> > ] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > I have also heard varying opinions about whether or
> not the fuel
> > valve should be shut off regularly. Opinions?
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Kimball Enterprises in
> Zellwood, FL has been selling an oil
> > shut of kit for quite some time. The valve
> interlocks with a
> > microswitch which is wired to the air start button/air
> start valve.
> > If the valve is closed, the engine can not be started
> because the
> > microswitch remains engaged by the lever on the shut
> off valve.
> http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php
> >Slide down the page to the 6th item.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
> Message -----
> > From: Vic
> <mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday,
> September 16, 2010 5:38 AM
> > Subject:
> Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
> >
> > --> Yak-List
> message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > to stop oil
> draining into the crankcase I came to a solution
> which
> > works great on the Yak 18T so far. As you can see on
> the photos, I
> > added a ball valve into the feed hose to the oil pump
> on the right
> > side of the fire wall where the hose forms a U-shape.
> The lever on
> > the ball valve is connected to the lever of the petrol
> tap on the
> > left side via push-pull rod, so when you close the
> petrol after
> > engine shut-down, you shut the oil at the same time.
> No more need to
> > drain the crank case before start. You just cannot
> forget to turn on
> > the oil as you cannot miss that petrol has to be
> opened in the
> > cockpit, as both valves are connected by pushrod. I
> added a safety
> > spring to the ball valve, pulling in the
> "open"position, in case,
> > something should break.
> > There may be the
> need for some minor re-routing of oil hoses
> for a
> > straight pushrod between both valves but it can be
> done. I dont
> > know if this goes for 52s as well. Maybe there is need
> for an
> > intermediate lever and two pushrods to clear
> obstacles, but the
> > system seems reasonably failsafe to me.
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic
> online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312598#312598
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_shutoff_valve_125.jpg
> >
> >
> > p;
> Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > _p;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:52 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 08:45:52 PM PST US
From: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
Hal
At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>
>Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about how
>many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are holding
>it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it, etc.
>
>Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil shut
>off valve.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shut-off valve |
When a mag switch fails it fails to LIVE. A broken "P" lead makes the mag.
LIVE.
Pulling the prop through at mid blade is an invitation to eventual disaster.
Mark's procedure is the only correct one.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Wobschall" <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>
> Agreed. When you know what you're doing, you can certainly pull on the
> end of the blade. Just when you give dispensation, someone who's much
> stronger than usual will manage to break something.
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> See? It's all a matter of personal approach. I am 100 THOUSAND per
>> cent sure Eric that this works for you. ME? I pull from the very END
>> of the blade. But as I come around into compression I am not really
>> PULLING. I am slowly with my fingertips inching it around very slowly
>> FEELING for how much resistance it has. For me, that lever advantage
>> also adds to what I can feel with my fingertips. It's all about
>> experience and what works for "you". There really is no "perfect way",
>> but just what works... period.... tof the person involved. I believe
>> the utimate method is just being VERY CAREFUL and realize what can
>> happen and what you are trying to "feel".
>>
>> Personally, I look just slightly askance at the "pull so and so many
>> blades" for every single type of occasion. It's not the number of
>> blades really to me, other than to make sure all 9 cylinders have gone
>> through at least one compression stroke of course, but rather how it
>> feels as you are moving the prop through, and then how much oil I see
>> coming out of the exhaust.
>>
>> It's hard to put experience into the written word.
>>
>> When it comes to this particular subject, there is so MUCH advice, a lot
>> of it DIFFERENT, all of it technically CORRECT, and hard to figure out
>> what is the "best way".
>>
>> I didn't know hydraulic "Lock" from the ones sold by the Master Company
>> when I first got my airplane. Now I know exactly what it feels like
>> when I get even CLOSE to it.
>>
>> Hard to explain how I got there. :-)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Eric Wobschall
>> Sent: Sun 9/19/2010 6:51 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut-off valve
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> If you're pulling them through from the middle third of the blades,
>> you'll know if something's up.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2010, at 11:43 PM, William Halverson wrote:
>>
>>> <william@netpros.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh .. no ... so I have to be infirm enough to _not_ be able to pull
>>> the blades through now? Maybe rig up a torque wrench somehow?
>>>
>>> Good God, time to trade her in for a lawn mower.
>>>
>>> Hal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 08:24 PM 9/18/2010, Yak Pilot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Actually, "when in doubt" pull out the spark plugs and let the oil
>>>> drain. It is actually quite easy to bend connecting rods just
>>>> using the prop as a lever. So it is actually not all just about
>>>> how many times you pull the prop through, but also how you are
>>>> holding it, where you are holding it, how hard you are pulling it,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Doc advocates letting it all come out of the sump drain. Others
>>>> recommend fixing the ball check valve. Others recommend an oil
>>>> shut off valve.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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