Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 AM - Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue (barryhancock)
2. 08:07 AM - KSRR Fly-in (JandEFinley@comcast.net)
3. 04:24 PM - Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue (CHRIS ABBOTT)
4. 05:40 PM - Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue (Vic)
5. 05:47 PM - Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue (keithmckinley)
6. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue (Roger Baker)
7. 11:22 PM - Re: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue (Jan Mevis)
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| Subject: | Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
I was actually looking for the rope trick video...it circulated awhile back. Anyone
have it or know where it is? That makes a lot of sense to me, so does standing
behind the blades!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313586#313586
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My home base, Sierra Blanca Regional Airport, Ruidoso, NM is having our second
annual fly-in on Oct 16th. Justin King, our manager, has expressed a desire to
have the Yak/CJ-6 community represented
here. We would like to have formation flying, static displays, etc.
Unfortunately, they do not have the finances to provide any payment for fuel, however, fuel will be sold at cost. (appx. $3.50/gal) More info is available at (www.ruidoso.net/fly-in). I can be reached at: 239-272-5212 or jandefinley@comcast.net. The weather is usually great, the food good, great shopping for the GIB's. There are about 150 tie downs, so plenty of room. Look up KSRR!
John Finley
jandefinley@comcast.net
575-336-8356 or 239-272-5215
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| Subject: | Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
Guys.
Cant help but to comment, whilst best practices are always good, all
accidents are a sequence of events that until lined up may never happen!
My story goes this way, I have a yak 52 built 1990 VH-YAV, am an avid
pilot (390hrs and 98 in type), Drag racer (2007 championship winner HD
Destroyer 9.38sec 147mph ) Flat track racer (HD XR 750, good mates and
raced with Jay Springsteen), a Scuba instructor (wreck, deep 60m+ with
over 2000 dives logged) and in excess of 20 years of experience
monitoring and teaching safety around construction and heavy
equipment, ridden motorcycles 1.1 million kilometers including one
trip around the world, to base camp tibetan side, seen war in lebanon
"85", Sahara desert, look if it had horsepower, speed and calculated
danger i was into it. Farm raised, a mechanic and tekkie for some 32
years I am very fastidious about maintenance, build all my race
engines and do all my setups so my yak starts extremely easily!
My sequence of events go this way : - Some 18 months prior to getting
in the way of the prop i had treatment for cancer and subsequent
chemo, with this a couple of business worries and a foggy head! during
the whole 18 month period of treatment and recovery i had to attend to
business (partner rip off problems), this left me with a "busy mind".
At midday on April 4th 2008, even though the night before we had a
late one (tired but not hung over) i dragged the yak out to take a
client for a "deal clincher", done my normal pre flight and noticed
that both the battery and air was a little low during this i received
an argumentative phone call from a previous supplier of the business,
after i sat for a while to try to calm down, a short time had elapsed
and i felt ready to go ahead, primed the engine, jumped in the cockpit
to fire it up and taxi to the fuel bowser, whilst even though it
started easily with the low air and battery it stopped quickly ! this
then lead to the sequence that would end in tears, i was concerned
that if i just primed and tried starting on the air it would not have
enough to pull the fuel through so i jumped out to pull through by
hand and to conserve air, looked back to do a check "mags off etc" and
reverted to my instinct of turning things anti clock ways for "off"
and subsequently turned the mags on, the little voice told me this was
incorrect but i assured myself it wasn't (no glasses didn't check the
numbers), slid over the front of the wing to make it quicker (didn't
touch the prop!) checked the oil drain to make sure that it was closed
(once again didn't touch the prop) looked at the prop, it was at
approximately the 1:35 position, made the decision to pull it down to
a position where i could get to it easily, i stepped in and reached
under the blade rather than lift the lower blade (quicker this was the
final sequence that would see me in and out of surgery for the next
couple of years), as as soon as i touched it it immediately fired
backwards for about 3 blades (fortunately as this pushed me back) then
jumped into a very nice fast forward idle striking my arms and legs as
i tried getting out of the way.
The sequence of events that lined up were as follows
- Tired.
- Busy Brain.
- Distracted by phone call.
- Low air (start solenoid was partially activated).
- Low battery (shower of sparks remained active).
- In a hurry and happy to accept the low air and battery.
- Compromised standing position and sequence for pulling
through.
The engrained safety in me saved a much worse incident as i had
applied the brake, turned on the air and never once placed my head or
the core of my body in a position of rotating danger.
Hope this helps to keep the sequences out of sync and a sense of what
can happen when distracted (couple of photos attached to remind)
Thankyou
Chris Abbott
On 24/09/2010, at 4:38 PM, Didier Blouzard wrote:
Indeed,
it is easy to make a mistake......yes and no!!!
In the world of safety, there are always multiples factors leading you
to a risk.
So if there is one point of procedure not usual, question yourself and
find the reason before going further.
But mainly youcan get away of a lot of risk by following procedures.
Because following procedures let your mind plenty of time to take in
account the unpredictable events.
We have the luck to have a few people on this list giving us good
procedures so read them, make them yours and apply them systematicaly.
For hand starting .... I have never read any procedure.... just a
few : "pull and stay away of the blade" .
I've heard some of the good eastern mechanic say that they start with
a rope (a buckle over one blade) in order to avoid being in front or
close to the prop.
So apply procedures and be safe....well...safer!!!
Didier
2010/9/23 <sajdds@comcast.net>
Given how easy it is to make a mistake or to have the mag cutoff fail
what is the correct way to hold and to swing a prop? I would also be
interested in knowing the safest way to hand start the M14P.
Steve Johnson
Yak-52 N9900X
0B5
413 522-1130 Cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "barryhancock" <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 3:00:51 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue
>
Gang,
I had an experience recently that I would like to share with you.
First, I want to give you some background, both because many of you
don't know me, and I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.
I have had the good fortune to fly Yaks and CJs for over 10 years
now. I have ~2000 hrs. of PIC time, mostly in warbirds. For the past
several years I have been current in the following aircraft: CJ-6,
Yak-50, L-39, and Lancair Legacy. For the past 3 years my CJ and Yak
flying time has been more limited due to work and my constant
commuting back and forth from Utah to Chino in the Lancair, but I've
still managed about 300 hrs./year all combined. In the past few
months we have had 3 different ground up restoration CJs get completed
and delivered. Part of that process is test flying the freshly
restored airplanes, which definitely gets your attention as a pilot.
Included in this has been a lot of adjustments with the engine, which
necessitates a lot of starting, stopping, tweaking, starting, etc. A
lot of in and out of the cockpit. Well, one day, I got lazy.....
On a CJ that I had literally started over a dozen times over the
period of several days between test flights, prop governor
adjustments, electronic engine monitoring tweaks, etc., I was all set
for another test flight. Preflight complete, pulled through, primed
and ready, I hit the start button. The engine had been starting
flawlessly, so when it didn't start after a few blades I stopped and
reprimed. A few more blades and nothing. A few more start
attempts...nothing. I decided to get out and start over. So I
unstrapped, got out and started to pull the prop through....on the
second blade the engine coughed and then roared to life. When it
coughed I knew what was coming and jumped out of the way. My guess is
the engine was turning about 1400 RPM....no chocks, no brake
strap...and it started rolling. In the blink of an eye I spun out of
the way and reacted. I knew what was at stake...get the plane stopped
quickly or this brand new restoration as going to tear into a h!
angar down the row.
As the plane was rolling towards me, I got clear of the prop arc and
tried to jump up on the front of the wing. My timing was a little off
and the wing hit me right in the side of the hip (the bruise still
shows 2 months later). Luckily, I landed on my feet. I knew at this
point with the plane accelerating that I had one last chance.
Simultaneously back peddling and planting to jump up, I grabbed ahold
of the canopy rail, pulled myself up, reached in and grabbed the brake
handle with my right hand and killed the mags with my left. Where the
plane stopped there had been a Piper Cherokee sticking out of it's
hangar about 30 minutes before. Another 20 feet further and the
wingtip would have grabbed a hangar door and spun the airplane into
that hangar with the prop at something above idle. It would have been
ugly.
What would have been uglier is my body splattered all over that ramp.
I reacted to the situation and luckily things came out OK. I can't
count on that luck if it were to happen again. And neither can you.....
So, here are the main things I've learned from this and hopefully you
can learn by reading, and not from your own similar event.
1) Familiarity breeds complacency. I had done this so many times
recently (and always with the airplane chocked when we were tweaking)
I neglected to follow the golden rules: Mags OFF, Throttle IDLE,
Parking Brake Set. Any of these three make for a much less exciting
event. It only takes one time getting complacent to have a really bad
day.
2) Just because you are current, doesn't mean you are proficient.
While I had about 10 hours of CJ flying in the last couple of months
prior to this, I fly a variety of stuff so my habits for the CJ isn't
what it used to be when I flew them almost exclusively. When things
got out of the routine, I needed to stop and double check everything.
3) No matter what, follow the golden rules for pulling through the
prop. 1) Mags off, 2) throttle idle, and 3) parking brake (in the
case of the CJ, a velcro strap) in place.
I got lucky. I could have turned into prop-sui. I could have gotten
someone else hurt. The plane could have been destroyed. Lots of
other bad things were possible. Honestly, it was my athleticism that
saved me...not something I'd like to count on again, and something
that left guys like Pappy a few years ago. ;)- The other thing that
saved me was proper technique on pulling the prop through. One thing
I have in my head is to treat that prop like a loaded gun. I see guys
that get their body in the prop arc when pulling blades through and it
makes me cringe. Had I done that, I likely would not be writing this.
Things go well for so long we sometimes forget how narrow the line is
between fun and death in this business. I remember now...and
hopefully you do to.
Happy Flying!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?
p=313411#313411_p; &n===================
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard@gmail.com
0624243672
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
Hello,
I would never dare to handprop a M14P with a standard magneto with fixed timing
of 23 degrees before TDC . Normal procedure is to start the engine on the shower
of sparks with retarded timing a bit after TDC and magneto off. So when handpropping
with hot magneto you risk a heavy kickback you are possibly not prepared
to deal with. All sorts of consequences may follow after that.
A few weeks ago we had a pilotless Yak 55 circling for ages on the grass till it
went into the woods. Watch this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO-iGcRAkms
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313666#313666
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| Subject: | Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
Barry,
Mark said it best and I echo his thoughts. Glad your OK! Thank you for sharing...
I could have done without those pictures that got posted in the thread!
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313667#313667
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| Subject: | Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
Keith and all,
I think the pictures were extremely important....I can't think of a better
exclamation point after the discussion that has gone on here. Chris Abbot...thanks
for posting.
Roger Baker
On Sep 24, 2010, at 5:45 PM, keithmckinley wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> Mark said it best and I echo his thoughts. Glad your OK! Thank you for sharing...
>
> I could have done without those pictures that got posted in the thread!
>
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313667#313667
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
Thanks a lot, Chris! Thank God you survived it!
I recently handstarted a 52, inadvertently, because I FORGOT TO PUT BACK A
P-LEAD after maintenance.
I was very lucky having someone in the cockpit, with the brakes set. It
scared the hell out of me, seeing this huge prop come to live at 2 inches
from my nose.Bottomline of the story: I was interrupted when working on the
engine. It should not happen, but it does.
Since then, for startup, I proceed exactly as Mark prescribed it,
religiously.
Like someone else on the list said: treat the prop as if it were a loaded
gun.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: zaterdag 25 september 2010 3:31
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue
Keith and all,
I think the pictures were extremely important....I can't think of a
better exclamation point after the discussion that has gone on here. Chris
Abbot...thanks for posting.
Roger Baker
On Sep 24, 2010, at 5:45 PM, keithmckinley wrote:
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> Mark said it best and I echo his thoughts. Glad your OK! Thank you for
sharing...
>
> I could have done without those pictures that got posted in the thread!
>
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313667#313667
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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