Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:39 AM - Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators (Scott Miller)
2. 07:49 AM - Re: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators (George Coy)
3. 08:03 AM - Update on Warrenton HWY formation Clinic Oct 22-24th, 2010 (Dabear)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 08:34 AM - Re: Oil (delfin)
6. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Oil (Walter Lannon)
7. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Oil (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Oil (bpx2horn@aol.com)
9. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Oil (Eric Wobschall)
10. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Oil (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Oil (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
12. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Oil (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 06:47 PM - Gear door (Tom Elliott)
14. 06:53 PM - FW: Gear door (Tom Elliott)
15. 07:17 PM - 18T FUEL SYSTEM (Joe Howse)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators |
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from full to
=0Aalmost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.=0A=0A=0AI can't
detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess the next =0Asu
spect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to detect a leak fr
om =0Athese valves? I am about to do a gear retraction test on jacks and w
ill use the =0Afront and rear emergency retraction as well as normal up/dow
n.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0AScott Miller N6203Y=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators |
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from full to
almost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess the next
suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to detect a leak
from these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction test on jacks and
will use the front and rear emergency retraction as well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
Message 3
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| Subject: | Update on Warrenton HWY formation Clinic Oct 22-24th, 2010 |
Yak, CJ, and American Warbird pilots.
We are just a few weeks away from the Warrenton formation Clinic and I
wanted to get this update out to those that have registered and those that
may be interested. Please send me information if you are coming AND if you
are not coming so that I may plan for food and such. Also, please make your
hotel and rental car arrangements soon.
Due to the limited daylight this time of year, there will be flying on
Friday, Saturday, and as late in the day on Sunday as possible. At this
time, the plan is for formation flying only, although there is an acro box
on the field available for use when briefed. If there are requests for
other activities, please let me know. If you need ground school, please
ask!
The basic schedule:
Friday October 22
Check in:
Formation flying
Lunch provided
Formation flying until dark
Dinner at a local restaurant
Saturday October 23rd
Check in:
8:30am Safety Brief
Formation Flying
Lunch Provided
Formation flying until Dark
Dinner in the Hanger
K-Kort if the NJ or Canadian Judge attends
Sunday October 24th
8:30 Safety brief
Formation flying
Lunch
Formation flying until people depart for home
We will have a fuel discount; I don't know what it will be at this time.
Here is a list of people who have registered to attend, if your name is not
on the list and you are attending, please let me know. If you are on the
list and are NOT attending, please let me know:
Cecil Boyd
Craig Winkelmann
Jerry Robertello
Stephen Chapis
Hotel Recommendation in Warrenton:
<http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyhocn=WASWRHX>
Hampton Inn Warrenton <Click on link
501 Blackwell Road, Warrenton, Virginia, USA 20186
Tel: 1-540-349-4200 Fax: 1-540-349-0061
<http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyhocn=WASWRHX>
http://hamptoninn.hilton.com/en/hp/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyhocn=WASWRHX
Ask for the Red Star group block of rooms: $116 a night
Group confirmation number: 8055481
Rental Car Recommendations
<http://www.enterprise.com/car_rental/deeplinkmap.do?gpbr=1646&bid=004&cnty
US> Enterprise Rent-A-Car <Click on Link
310 BROADVIEW AVE STE 110
WARRENTON, VA 20186-2331
Tel.: (540) 341-2727
<http://www.enterprise.com/car_rental/deeplinkmap.do?gpbr=1646&bid=004&cnty
US>
http://www.enterprise.com/car_rental/deeplinkmap.do?gpbr=1646&bid=004&cnty=U
S
As for the Red Star rate: Ask for Ray. Please book by Oct 15th.
The rental people are expecting you to pick up the car at the airport and
return it at the FBO.
Thanks,
Randy DeVere
dabear@devere.us
571.213.4344
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators |
Scott,
The only time the any air will leak from the gear selectors is with the
main air valve turned on. If the air is leaking down in the tanks with
the main and emergency air valves turned off, the problem is very likely
the O-ring seals under the large nuts on the top of the air tanks where
the flare fittings are screwed into. Contact Jill at M14P for the
correct O ring for the tank. Without the proper O ring, the tanks will
leak down rather quickly. Basically, with the air valves closed, the
leaks have to be between the air valve and the bottle with one
exception.
Remove the external air fill port cover and spray some soapy water on
the hole. If there is air leaking out, the soapy water will bubble up.
If both air bottles are leaking down, it is possible you have two check
valves hanging up. One is on the inside of the fuselage right behind
the external air fill port. This one is for the emergency air tank.
The other check valve is on the firewall and is on the left side of the
T where the pop off valve is. This is the check valve for the main air
bottle.
If you need more help, just let me know.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Miller
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from
full to almost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess
the next suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to
detect a leak from these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction
test on jacks and will use the front and rear emergency retraction as
well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
Message 5
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I am aware of- a number of Yak owners in USA-that have recently experie
nced =0Aexhaust valve problems.- In researching this it appears that a co
mmon =0Adenominator is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that it i
s the cause. =0ABut, it is a possibility.- The Russian Oil spec is MS-20
. That appears to allow =0Afor both the mineral oil- Aeroshell 100 or 120
and also the ashelss---- W 100 =0Aand W120.--- Given that th
e engine has an-oil screen and not an oil filter, the =0Aheavier detergen
t oils might take out to much and re-deposit this at the exhaust =0Avalves,
-carbon etc.=0A=0ABased upon my research I would think-that running wit
h the straight weight =0Amineral oil-or the W oil would be ok.- I know
we think of mineral-oil as =0Abreak-in oil. But it matches the spec of MS
-20 as does W100, 120.------ I would =0Abe interested in others
-opinions.- Additionally, I would- think that a few =0Aounces of Marv
el Mystery oil-added per full tank of fuel- might be beneficial to =0At
he upper end of the motor as well. =0A=0A=0AI would be interested in seriou
s opinions. thanks=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0AS
ent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM=0ASubject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for
leaks from F/R gear actuators=0A=0A=0AIt is probably one of the check valve
s. =0A-=0AFrom:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-yak-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller=0ASent: Monday, October
04, 2010 10:26 AM=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Yak-List: Checki
ng for leaks from F/R gear actuators=0A-=0AThe leakage on my 52 has gone
from a couple of days to one day from full to =0Aalmost zero after removing
and hydroing both air tanks.=0A-=0AI can't detect any leaks on the firew
all or tank fittings. -I guess the next =0Asuspect area is the gear selec
tors. -What is the best way to detect a leak from =0Athese valves? -I a
m about to do a gear retraction test on jacks and will use the =0Afront and
rear emergency retraction as well as normal up/down.=0A-=0ARegards,=0A
-=0AScott Miller N6203Y=0A-=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Yak-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant additive, same as Aeroshell
W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
----- Original Message -----
From: delfin
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently experienced exhaust
valve problems. In researching this it appears that a common denominator
is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that it is the cause. But, it
is a possibility. The Russian Oil spec is MS-20 . That appears to allow for
both the mineral oil Aeroshell 100 or 120 and also the ashelss W 100 and
W120. Given that the engine has an oil screen and not an oil filter, the heavier
detergent oils might take out to much and re-deposit this at the exhaust
valves, carbon etc.
Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight weight mineral
oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of mineral oil as break-in
oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as does W100, 120. I would be interested
in others opinions. Additionally, I would think that a few ounces of
Marvel Mystery oil added per full tank of fuel might be beneficial to the upper
end of the motor as well.
I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from full to almost
zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess the next
suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to detect a leak from
these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction test on jacks and will use
the front and rear emergency retraction as well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- -Matt Dralle,
on" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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Thanks Walt. You beat me to it. Many people don't know that Philips
25W-60 IS mineral oil and can be used from "birth to death" on the M14
engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant additive,
same as Aeroshell W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
----- Original Message -----
From: delfin
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently
experienced exhaust valve problems. In researching this it appears that
a common denominator is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that
it is the cause. But, it is a possibility. The Russian Oil spec is
MS-20 . That appears to allow for both the mineral oil Aeroshell 100 or
120 and also the ashelss W 100 and W120. Given that the engine
has an oil screen and not an oil filter, the heavier detergent oils
might take out to much and re-deposit this at the exhaust valves, carbon
etc.
Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight
weight mineral oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of mineral
oil as break-in oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as does W100, 120.
I would be interested in others opinions. Additionally, I would
think that a few ounces of Marvel Mystery oil added per full tank of
fuel might be beneficial to the upper end of the motor as well.
I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from
full to almost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess
the next suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to
detect a leak from these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction
test on jacks and will use the front and rear emergency retraction as
well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- -Matt
Dralle,
on" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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We have used the Phillips 25w60 on our three birds for about 2400 hours to
tal since the Aerostars started flying shows together about 7 years ago.
We have experienced no ill effects do to running multi viscoity mineral
oil. I would also suspect that we run our motors harder than most people
that are on this list do to the nature of our show.
Regards,
Paul Hornick
Aerostars
Left Wing
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:02 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Thanks Walt. You beat me to it. Many people don't know that Philips 25W-
60 IS mineral oil and can be used from "birth to death" on the M14 engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant additive, same
as Aeroshell W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
----- Original Message -----
From: delfin
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently experience
d exhaust valve problems. In researching this it appears that a common de
nominator is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that it is the cau
se. But, it is a possibility. The Russian Oil spec is MS-20 . That appear
s to allow for both the mineral oil Aeroshell 100 or 120 and also the ash
elss W 100 and W120. Given that the engine has an oil screen and no
t an oil filter, the heavier detergent oils might take out to much and re-
deposit this at the exhaust valves, carbon etc.
Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight weight
mineral oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of mineral oil as
break-in oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as does W100, 120.
I would be interested in others opinions. Additionally, I would think
that a few ounces of Marvel Mystery oil added per full tank of fuel migh
t be beneficial to the upper end of the motor as well.
I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from full
to almost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess the ne
xt suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to detect a
leak from these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction test on jacks
and will use the front and rear emergency retraction as well as normal up
/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-
-Matt Dralle,
n" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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Message 9
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Paul, I would agree, and I think the problem is actually with the flat
engine multi-grades (20-50).
On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:20 PM, bpx2horn@aol.com wrote:
> We have used the Phillips 25w60 on our three birds for about 2400
> hours total since the Aerostars started flying shows together about
> 7 years ago. We have experienced no ill effects do to running multi
> viscoity mineral oil. I would also suspect that we run our motors
> harder than most people that are on this list do to the nature of
> our show.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul Hornick
> Aerostars
> Left Wing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:02 am
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
>
> Thanks Walt. You beat me to it. Many people don't know that
> Philips 25W-60 IS mineral oil and can be used from "birth to death"
> on the M14 engine.
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Walter Lannon
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
>
> Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant
> additive, same as Aeroshell W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: delfin
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
>
> I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently
> experienced exhaust valve problems. In researching this it appears
> that a common denominator is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not
> stating that it is the cause. But, it is a possibility. The Russian
> Oil spec is MS-20 . That appears to allow for both the mineral oil
> Aeroshell 100 or 120 and also the ashelss W 100 and W120.
> Given that the engine has an oil screen and not an oil filter, the
> heavier detergent oils might take out to much and re-deposit this at
> the exhaust valves, carbon etc.
>
> Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight
> weight mineral oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of
> mineral oil as break-in oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as
> does W100, 120. I would be interested in others opinions.
> Additionally, I would think that a few ounces of Marvel Mystery oil
> added per full tank of fuel might be beneficial to the upper end of
> the motor as well.
>
> I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
>
>
> From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
>
> It is probably one of the check valves.
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
>
> The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from
> full to almost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
>
> I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess
> the next suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way
> to detect a leak from these valves? I am about to do a gear
> retraction test on jacks and will use the front and rear emergency
> retraction as well as normal up/down.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Miller N6203Y
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-
> -Matt Dralle,
> on" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ===================================
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
Message 10
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I have seen four M-14 engines now with exhaust valve problems. On three out of
four, it was the number 2 cylinder. I am not sure why. One of these engines
was my own. On the first repair attempt, the Indian Rope trick was used to resurface
the valve seat. That trick worked just fine, except that some of the
grinding compound got down into the rings with the obvious disastrous ending.
One ring broke, and well, it was not a good thing.
Pulled cylinder, resurfaced valve the PROPER way, honed cylinder and replaced and
regapped the rings and everything was fine.
Regardless, in every case that I have seen these valve problems, they have been
caused by excessive LEAD deposits. Even when the valve guides were worn out,
the oil did not deposit on the valves or stems and cause problems. Yes, the
oil was being burnt, but the ashless dispersant did what it was supposed to do.
And yes, every one of these engines was running Phillips radial engine oil.
What I did next is just what I happened to do, and is not a "recommendation".
But keep in mind that my YAK-50 does not have cowl gills. It runs a straight
open air flow directly to the engine, thus it is easy for the cylinder head temps
to run cool. All my problems with leading on the valves happened when I first
got the engine , when I thought I would take care of it by running it at
low RPM and taking it really easy on that wonderful engine.
And then I noticed that the guys running their engines WIDE OPEN doing aerobatics
did not seem to have these problems, and ... they beat the crap out of those
engines.
So I decided to try that. On cross country trips I ran the engine at 80%. Sometimes
85%. I burnt more fuel, but I also got there a LOT faster. I also added
MMO... more than recommended, into the fuel. All my problems went away.
No more leading. Compression got better. I now have 800 hours behind that same
engine and all compression readings are 80/72 or higher.
Again, I am not saying that this is right for anyone else. Obviously with no gills
on my engine, running it at higher RPM keeps cylinder temps up. I think
this helps with the leading problem. So, the lesson I think to be learned here
is that exhaust valve problems are probably not caused by the oil, but instead
by leading from the 100 Low Lead fuel. And it is NOT LOW LEAD by the way,
but that is another issue. Obviously though, running an engine at low power settings
and allowing the cylinder head temp to fall to low values makes this worse.
How much Marvel Mystery Oil helped I have no idea, but I use it religiously
to this day, and very rarely run the engine below 80% power. I completely
believe that the M14 engine likes to be run hard.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Mon 10/4/2010 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Thanks Walt. You beat me to it. Many people don't know that Philips 25W-60 IS
mineral oil and can be used from "birth to death" on the M14 engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon <mailto:wlannon@persona.ca>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant additive, same as
Aeroshell W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
----- Original Message -----
From: delfin <mailto:l29delfin@yahoo.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently experienced exhaust
valve problems. In researching this it appears that a common denominator
is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that it is the cause. But, it
is a possibility. The Russian Oil spec is MS-20 . That appears to allow for
both the mineral oil Aeroshell 100 or 120 and also the ashelss W 100 and
W120. Given that the engine has an oil screen and not an oil filter, the heavier
detergent oils might take out to much and re-deposit this at the exhaust
valves, carbon etc.
Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight weight mineral
oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of mineral oil as break-in
oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as does W100, 120. I would be interested
in others opinions. Additionally, I would think that a few ounces of
Marvel Mystery oil added per full tank of fuel might be beneficial to the upper
end of the motor as well.
I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
________________________________
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from full to almost
zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess the next
suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to detect a leak from
these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction test on jacks and will use
the front and rear emergency retraction as well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- -Matt Dralle,
on" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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And you do a wonderful show by the way. I was at Cherry Point with you this year
and your smoke covered the whole flight line so well that we could no longer
see your aircraft! :-)
GREAT JOB! It was a pleasure to watch you perform.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of bpx2horn@aol.com
Sent: Mon 10/4/2010 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
We have used the Phillips 25w60 on our three birds for about 2400 hours total since
the Aerostars started flying shows together about 7 years ago. We have experienced
no ill effects do to running multi viscoity mineral oil. I would also
suspect that we run our motors harder than most people that are on this list
do to the nature of our show.
Regards,
Paul Hornick
Aerostars
Left Wing
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:02 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Thanks Walt. You beat me to it. Many people don't know that Philips 25W-60 IS
mineral oil and can be used from "birth to death" on the M14 engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon <mailto:wlannon@persona.ca>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant additive, same as
Aeroshell W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
----- Original Message -----
From: delfin <mailto:l29delfin@yahoo.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently experienced exhaust
valve problems. In researching this it appears that a common denominator
is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that it is the cause. But, it
is a possibility. The Russian Oil spec is MS-20 . That appears to allow for
both the mineral oil Aeroshell 100 or 120 and also the ashelss W 100 and
W120. Given that the engine has an oil screen and not an oil filter, the heavier
detergent oils might take out to much and re-deposit this at the exhaust
valves, carbon etc.
Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight weight mineral
oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of mineral oil as break-in
oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as does W100, 120. I would be interested
in others opinions. Additionally, I would think that a few ounces of
Marvel Mystery oil added per full tank of fuel might be beneficial to the upper
end of the motor as well.
I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
________________________________
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from full to almost
zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess the next
suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to detect a leak from
these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction test on jacks and will use
the front and rear emergency retraction as well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- -Matt Dralle,
on" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 12
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Over the years I have found the #2 cylinder is always hotter than the
other cylinders. For what reason, I have no idea. The temp. readings
were taken each time with a laser temperature instrument right after
shut down. I have also found exactly the same thing that Mark
mentions....the exhaust valve on #2 leaking more frequently than all
other cylinders cylinders.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I have seen four M-14 engines now with exhaust valve problems. On
three out of four, it was the number 2 cylinder. I am not sure why.
One of these engines was my own. On the first repair attempt, the
Indian Rope trick was used to resurface the valve seat. That trick
worked just fine, except that some of the grinding compound got down
into the rings with the obvious disastrous ending. One ring broke, and
well, it was not a good thing.
Pulled cylinder, resurfaced valve the PROPER way, honed cylinder and
replaced and regapped the rings and everything was fine.
Regardless, in every case that I have seen these valve problems, they
have been caused by excessive LEAD deposits. Even when the valve
guides were worn out, the oil did not deposit on the valves or stems and
cause problems. Yes, the oil was being burnt, but the ashless
dispersant did what it was supposed to do. And yes, every one of these
engines was running Phillips radial engine oil.
What I did next is just what I happened to do, and is not a
"recommendation". But keep in mind that my YAK-50 does not have cowl
gills. It runs a straight open air flow directly to the engine, thus it
is easy for the cylinder head temps to run cool. All my problems with
leading on the valves happened when I first got the engine , when I
thought I would take care of it by running it at low RPM and taking it
really easy on that wonderful engine.
And then I noticed that the guys running their engines WIDE OPEN doing
aerobatics did not seem to have these problems, and ... they beat the
crap out of those engines.
So I decided to try that. On cross country trips I ran the engine at
80%. Sometimes 85%. I burnt more fuel, but I also got there a LOT
faster. I also added MMO... more than recommended, into the fuel. All
my problems went away. No more leading. Compression got better. I now
have 800 hours behind that same engine and all compression readings are
80/72 or higher.
Again, I am not saying that this is right for anyone else. Obviously
with no gills on my engine, running it at higher RPM keeps cylinder
temps up. I think this helps with the leading problem. So, the lesson
I think to be learned here is that exhaust valve problems are probably
not caused by the oil, but instead by leading from the 100 Low Lead
fuel. And it is NOT LOW LEAD by the way, but that is another issue.
Obviously though, running an engine at low power settings and allowing
the cylinder head temp to fall to low values makes this worse. How much
Marvel Mystery Oil helped I have no idea, but I use it religiously to
this day, and very rarely run the engine below 80% power. I completely
believe that the M14 engine likes to be run hard.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Mon 10/4/2010 12:02 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Thanks Walt. You beat me to it. Many people don't know that Philips
25W-60 IS mineral oil and can be used from "birth to death" on the M14
engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon <mailto:wlannon@persona.ca>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Oil
Phillips 25W60 is mineral oil. It has an ashless dispersant additive,
same as Aeroshell W, etc. and a viscosity modifier.
----- Original Message -----
From: delfin <mailto:l29delfin@yahoo.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Oil
I am aware of a number of Yak owners in USA that have recently
experienced exhaust valve problems. In researching this it appears that
a common denominator is Phillips multi grade oil. I am not stating that
it is the cause. But, it is a possibility. The Russian Oil spec is
MS-20 . That appears to allow for both the mineral oil Aeroshell 100 or
120 and also the ashelss W 100 and W120. Given that the engine
has an oil screen and not an oil filter, the heavier detergent oils
might take out to much and re-deposit this at the exhaust valves, carbon
etc.
Based upon my research I would think that running with the straight
weight mineral oil or the W oil would be ok. I know we think of mineral
oil as break-in oil. But it matches the spec of MS-20 as does W100, 120.
I would be interested in others opinions. Additionally, I would
think that a few ounces of Marvel Mystery oil added per full tank of
fuel might be beneficial to the upper end of the motor as well.
I would be interested in serious opinions. thanks
________________________________
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:46:46 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
It is probably one of the check valves.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:26 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Checking for leaks from F/R gear actuators
The leakage on my 52 has gone from a couple of days to one day from
full to almost zero after removing and hydroing both air tanks.
I can't detect any leaks on the firewall or tank fittings. I guess
the next suspect area is the gear selectors. What is the best way to
detect a leak from these valves? I am about to do a gear retraction
test on jacks and will use the front and rear emergency retraction as
well as normal up/down.
Regards,
Scott Miller N6203Y
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- -Matt
Dralle,
on" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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Any one have a lower right gear door they want to part with?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
Message 14
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For a CJ-6
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 6:44 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Gear door
Any one have a lower right gear door they want to part with?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
Message 15
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ANYONE HAVE THE LATEST FUEL SYSTEM SCHEMATIC FOR 18T?
JOE
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