Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:07 AM - Re: Whirl Wind Prop (ssssskippy)
2. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Romania (Cliff Coy)
3. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: Romania (Bill Geipel)
4. 07:06 PM - Radio (Bill Geipel)
5. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Romania (Cliff Coy)
Message 1
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Hi All
Some Pireps for this wonderfull whirlwind prop?
Bye
Olivier
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Warren Hill
Envoy: jeudi 18 novembre 2010 14:45
: yak-list@matronics.com
Objet: Re: Yak-List: Whirl Wind Prop
Doug,
I have blade serial numbers 001 and 002 of this prop design and should have
it on my CJ-6A with a M-14P within a couple of weeks. Will let you know how
it performs. Attached is a picture from WhirlWind of the V-530WT on a Yak-52
while the design was being evaluated.
Jill Gernetzke did an absolutely beautiful job of mounting my blades on an
overhauled V-530 hub with a static balance. She is an artist.
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
N464TW
Message 2
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*Tim,
I would say the "Big Three" of George and myself, Jill and Carl, and Dennis
are doing what we can to produce replacement parts for the Yaks. Whereas
Aerostar has the the ability to produce many of the parts, the lead time and
pricing is not acceptable to non-government markets.
This may be a good time for us (collectively) to show what's available and
to update what's in the works.
Engines and engine parts-
The Romanian Factory is still producing new engines as well as performing
factory overhauls.
Turn around time for an overhaul once the engine is received is about 3-1/2
weeks.
They offer component overhauls of compressors, mags, and oil pumps.
George has already posted the factory's news concerning the new piston and
ring sets for cylinders.
We have developed a replacement magneto for which we've been waiting for
over a year to have test flown (nudge nudge poke poke you *know* who you
are).
The second generation electronic ignition system is in the final stages of
programming.
Both of these systems are meant to be a "drop in" replacement utilizing the
same mounting pad and form size.
George has invested a *lot* of time and money into these systems.
Ignition lead is available as are new Chinese spark plugs.
There are also replacement (and arguably more reliable) automotive
conversions available from Dennis and Bill Blackwell.
We have carburetors overhauled in both Russia and Romania.
Airflow Performance has a system that's working pretty well.
The Continental style fuel injection system is still in development at the
factory.
Jill and Carl have received factory training to perform engine overhauls and
tear down inspections.
Barrett Precision is also doing the same.
Propellers
We have the parts to overhaul the two bladed V.Period hubs and the ability
to perform static balancing.
We have manufactured new internal parts for the hub- piston,domes, and pitch
change blocks.
I recommend Whirlwind Propeller for overhauling the blades. It's simply a
cost effective thing to do.
Jill is offering replacement blades developed in conjunction with Whirlwind.
Avia Propeller has also developed replacement blades.
Rubber Products-
We have new Russian hose material to remake the hose assemblies.
We have completed and paid for the engineering for metric hose fittings
using U.S. hose.
When we have the capital, we'll invest in a run of 10 fittings sets.
For the header tank flop tube we are having this reverse engineered for
fabrication over here.
New U.S. tires are available
Seals- I get my seals from Jill and Carl. I have a complete factory new
seal kit that I'm holding for later duplication if necessary.
Engine mount rubbers and baffles are available.
Intake seals and valve cover seals are available.
Canopies
Replacement canopy sets have been available from LP and Cee Bailys for
years.
Exhaust Systems
We sent a core engine to Aircraft Exhaust for them to develop a stainless
steel slip jointed exhaust system.
After a few tries, we've got a pretty good drop in replacement (including
the heater muff).
Pneumatic System
This is the grayest area for replacement parts.
We have the engineering completed for producing new steel and stainless
steel air bottles. Again, we're holding off to do a run of ten sets to
bring the price down.
Air start valves are available in limited quantities.
We have replacement check valves and can also rebuild check valves.
Dennis offers the same.
We have re-machined component parts like the differential valves.
For those of you with extra deep pockets, George developed and fabricated
hydraulic systems to replace both the brakes and landing gear systems.
Brake drums and pads are usually available.
Major Airframe Components
These are going to be the hardest to come by and the hardest to produce.
If Aerostar over produced the part you're looking for, then it'll probably
be available- for EU pricing.
If not, then it's going to come off of another aircraft.
Cowlings, shutters, and control surfaces are getting scarce.
We all have contacts outside of the U.S. who can search for used parts.
Price and lead time is solely dependent on those contacts.
I've heard tell that someone in California had made up composite cowlings,
but this was years ago and I've never seen one.
We have bearings for the control rods.
We have access to control cables.
Modifications
There is plenty of room for lightening the load or increasing the range.
For additional fuel, Dennis has bladders, we convert to wet wings.
Replacing the radio & intercom, the DG & AI systems, and removing the ADF
systems sheds somewhere in the vicinity of 50lb. I'm keeping this part short
as it goes on for several threads.
Suffice it to say that keeping everything original is going to become
increasingly expensive.
So the State of the Union, as it is, isn't that bad off- somewhere between
the Beech Musketeer and an Ercoupe.
The most dramatic change is in the parts pricing which, for decades, has
been based off of old stocks.
Like everything else, the limitations on parts availability and pricing is
based on the bankroll behind it.
Making one is expensive. Making 100 lowers the individual part's cost but
the outlay is quite high.
Deciding what to invest in is daunting at times. We've been sitting on
several thousand dollars in landing gear lamps for almost 10 years now.
I invite everyone else to put their two cents in about what they have and
what they need.
I'm aware that what I 'm saying may be painfully obvious to most, so
responses obviously stating that I'm stating the obvious can be sent
directly to /dev/null. *grin*
Best regards,
Cliff
*
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 07:43, Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net> wrote:
>
> Nope..but we can throw those two over priced airframes into the mix.
>
> 400K for a Yak-52...I can see that..especially for a government.
>
> I would be less concerned about what Vietnam is paying for a Yak-52 and
> more concerned about parts and spares availability. I would guess that if
> availability continues to be an issue, so will value of these airplanes. I
> know the P-51 community can pretty much make a brand new P-51 these days, it
> comes at an enormous cost. A friend of mine had a Mustang that needed one
> prop blade. If I recall, it cost him about 20K shipped. Multiply that by 4
> plus a hub and spinner......point is, is it cost effective (or productive)
> for someone to start making parts that are simply no longer available?
>
>
Message 3
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UMA has a replacement Manifold pressure and tach for the M14P. Has
anyone installed these and how big a job is it.
To much to ask for plug & play?
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Coy
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Romania
Tim,
I would say the "Big Three" of George and myself, Jill and Carl, and
Dennis are doing what we can to produce replacement parts for the Yaks.
Whereas Aerostar has the the ability to produce many of the parts, the
lead time and pricing is not acceptable to non-government markets.
This may be a good time for us (collectively) to show what's
available and to update what's in the works.
Engines and engine parts-
The Romanian Factory is still producing new engines as well as
performing factory overhauls.
Turn around time for an overhaul once the engine is received is about
3-1/2 weeks.
They offer component overhauls of compressors, mags, and oil pumps.
George has already posted the factory's news concerning the new piston
and ring sets for cylinders.
We have developed a replacement magneto for which we've been waiting
for over a year to have test flown (nudge nudge poke poke you *know* who
you are).
The second generation electronic ignition system is in the final
stages of programming.
Both of these systems are meant to be a "drop in" replacement
utilizing the same mounting pad and form size.
George has invested a *lot* of time and money into these systems.
Ignition lead is available as are new Chinese spark plugs.
There are also replacement (and arguably more reliable) automotive
conversions available from Dennis and Bill Blackwell.
We have carburetors overhauled in both Russia and Romania.
Airflow Performance has a system that's working pretty well.
The Continental style fuel injection system is still in development at
the factory.
Jill and Carl have received factory training to perform engine
overhauls and tear down inspections.
Barrett Precision is also doing the same.
Propellers
We have the parts to overhaul the two bladed V.Period hubs and the
ability to perform static balancing.
We have manufactured new internal parts for the hub- piston,domes, and
pitch change blocks.
I recommend Whirlwind Propeller for overhauling the blades. It's
simply a cost effective thing to do.
Jill is offering replacement blades developed in conjunction with
Whirlwind.
Avia Propeller has also developed replacement blades.
Rubber Products-
We have new Russian hose material to remake the hose assemblies.
We have completed and paid for the engineering for metric hose
fittings using U.S. hose.
When we have the capital, we'll invest in a run of 10 fittings sets.
For the header tank flop tube we are having this reverse engineered
for fabrication over here.
New U.S. tires are available
Seals- I get my seals from Jill and Carl. I have a complete factory
new seal kit that I'm holding for later duplication if necessary.
Engine mount rubbers and baffles are available.
Intake seals and valve cover seals are available.
Canopies
Replacement canopy sets have been available from LP and Cee Bailys for
years.
Exhaust Systems
We sent a core engine to Aircraft Exhaust for them to develop a
stainless steel slip jointed exhaust system.
After a few tries, we've got a pretty good drop in replacement
(including the heater muff).
Pneumatic System
This is the grayest area for replacement parts.
We have the engineering completed for producing new steel and
stainless steel air bottles. Again, we're holding off to do a run of
ten sets to bring the price down.
Air start valves are available in limited quantities.
We have replacement check valves and can also rebuild check valves.
Dennis offers the same.
We have re-machined component parts like the differential valves.
For those of you with extra deep pockets, George developed and
fabricated hydraulic systems to replace both the brakes and landing gear
systems.
Brake drums and pads are usually available.
Major Airframe Components
These are going to be the hardest to come by and the hardest to
produce.
If Aerostar over produced the part you're looking for, then it'll
probably be available- for EU pricing.
If not, then it's going to come off of another aircraft.
Cowlings, shutters, and control surfaces are getting scarce.
We all have contacts outside of the U.S. who can search for used
parts.
Price and lead time is solely dependent on those contacts.
I've heard tell that someone in California had made up composite
cowlings, but this was years ago and I've never seen one.
We have bearings for the control rods.
We have access to control cables.
Modifications
There is plenty of room for lightening the load or increasing the
range.
For additional fuel, Dennis has bladders, we convert to wet wings.
Replacing the radio & intercom, the DG & AI systems, and removing the
ADF systems sheds somewhere in the vicinity of 50lb. I'm keeping this
part short as it goes on for several threads.
Suffice it to say that keeping everything original is going to become
increasingly expensive.
So the State of the Union, as it is, isn't that bad off- somewhere
between the Beech Musketeer and an Ercoupe.
The most dramatic change is in the parts pricing which, for decades,
has been based off of old stocks.
Like everything else, the limitations on parts availability and
pricing is based on the bankroll behind it.
Making one is expensive. Making 100 lowers the individual part's cost
but the outlay is quite high.
Deciding what to invest in is daunting at times. We've been sitting
on several thousand dollars in landing gear lamps for almost 10 years
now.
I invite everyone else to put their two cents in about what they have
and what they need.
I'm aware that what I 'm saying may be painfully obvious to most, so
responses obviously stating that I'm stating the obvious can be sent
directly to /dev/null. *grin*
Best regards,
Cliff
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 07:43, Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net> wrote:
Nope..but we can throw those two over priced airframes into the mix.
400K for a Yak-52...I can see that..especially for a government.
I would be less concerned about what Vietnam is paying for a Yak-52
and more concerned about parts and spares availability. I would guess
that if availability continues to be an issue, so will value of these
airplanes. I know the P-51 community can pretty much make a brand new
P-51 these days, it comes at an enormous cost. A friend of mine had a
Mustang that needed one prop blade. If I recall, it cost him about 20K
shipped. Multiply that by 4 plus a hub and spinner......point is, is it
cost effective (or productive) for someone to start making parts that
are simply no longer available?
Message 4
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In need of a replacement tuning head for the radio in Yak 52.??
Message 5
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*Bill,
The UMA gauges will fit into the panel quite nicely. UMA has the range
markings for the M14-P.
The manifold pressure gauge is a snap (hose fitting)
The Tach is a different story.
Unless the engine is already equipped, you'll need an adapter which attaches
to the air start distributor.
We have these adapters in stock for ~$75
Cliff
*
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 22:02, Bill Geipel <czech6@mesanetworks.net> wrote:
> UMA has a replacement Manifold pressure and tach for the M14P. Has
> anyone installed these and how big a job is it.
> To much to ask for plug & play?
> Thanks.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Cliff Coy <cliff.coy@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, December 06, 2010 7:43 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Romania
>
> *Tim,
> I would say the "Big Three" of George and myself, Jill and Carl, and Dennis
> are doing what we can to produce replacement parts for the Yaks. Whereas
> Aerostar has the the ability to produce many of the parts, the lead time and
> pricing is not acceptable to non-government markets.
>
> This may be a good time for us (collectively) to show what's available and
> to update what's in the works.
>
> Engines and engine parts-
> The Romanian Factory is still producing new engines as well as performing
> factory overhauls.
> Turn around time for an overhaul once the engine is received is about 3-1/2
> weeks.
> They offer component overhauls of compressors, mags, and oil pumps.
>
> George has already posted the factory's news concerning the new piston and
> ring sets for cylinders.
> We have developed a replacement magneto for which we've been waiting for
> over a year to have test flown (nudge nudge poke poke you *know* who you
> are).
> The second generation electronic ignition system is in the final stages of
> programming.
> Both of these systems are meant to be a "drop in" replacement utilizing the
> same mounting pad and form size.
> George has invested a *lot* of time and money into these systems.
>
> Ignition lead is available as are new Chinese spark plugs.
> There are also replacement (and arguably more reliable) automotive
> conversions available from Dennis and Bill Blackwell.
>
> We have carburetors overhauled in both Russia and Romania.
> Airflow Performance has a system that's working pretty well.
> The Continental style fuel injection system is still in development at the
> factory.
>
> Jill and Carl have received factory training to perform engine overhauls
> and tear down inspections.
> Barrett Precision is also doing the same.
>
> Propellers
>
> We have the parts to overhaul the two bladed V.Period hubs and the ability
> to perform static balancing.
> We have manufactured new internal parts for the hub- piston,domes, and
> pitch change blocks.
>
> I recommend Whirlwind Propeller for overhauling the blades. It's simply a
> cost effective thing to do.
>
> Jill is offering replacement blades developed in conjunction with
> Whirlwind.
> Avia Propeller has also developed replacement blades.
>
> Rubber Products-
> We have new Russian hose material to remake the hose assemblies.
> We have completed and paid for the engineering for metric hose fittings
> using U.S. hose.
> When we have the capital, we'll invest in a run of 10 fittings sets.
>
> For the header tank flop tube we are having this reverse engineered for
> fabrication over here.
>
> New U.S. tires are available
>
> Seals- I get my seals from Jill and Carl. I have a complete factory new
> seal kit that I'm holding for later duplication if necessary.
>
> Engine mount rubbers and baffles are available.
> Intake seals and valve cover seals are available.
>
> Canopies
> Replacement canopy sets have been available from LP and Cee Bailys for
> years.
>
> Exhaust Systems
>
> We sent a core engine to Aircraft Exhaust for them to develop a stainless
> steel slip jointed exhaust system.
> After a few tries, we've got a pretty good drop in replacement (including
> the heater muff).
>
> Pneumatic System
>
> This is the grayest area for replacement parts.
> We have the engineering completed for producing new steel and stainless
> steel air bottles. Again, we're holding off to do a run of ten sets to
> bring the price down.
>
> Air start valves are available in limited quantities.
>
> We have replacement check valves and can also rebuild check valves.
> Dennis offers the same.
>
> We have re-machined component parts like the differential valves.
>
> For those of you with extra deep pockets, George developed and fabricated
> hydraulic systems to replace both the brakes and landing gear systems.
>
> Brake drums and pads are usually available.
>
> Major Airframe Components
>
> These are going to be the hardest to come by and the hardest to produce.
> If Aerostar over produced the part you're looking for, then it'll probably
> be available- for EU pricing.
> If not, then it's going to come off of another aircraft.
>
> Cowlings, shutters, and control surfaces are getting scarce.
> We all have contacts outside of the U.S. who can search for used parts.
> Price and lead time is solely dependent on those contacts.
>
> I've heard tell that someone in California had made up composite cowlings,
> but this was years ago and I've never seen one.
>
> We have bearings for the control rods.
> We have access to control cables.
>
> Modifications
> There is plenty of room for lightening the load or increasing the range.
> For additional fuel, Dennis has bladders, we convert to wet wings.
> Replacing the radio & intercom, the DG & AI systems, and removing the ADF
> systems sheds somewhere in the vicinity of 50lb. I'm keeping this part short
> as it goes on for several threads.
> Suffice it to say that keeping everything original is going to become
> increasingly expensive.
>
> So the State of the Union, as it is, isn't that bad off- somewhere between
> the Beech Musketeer and an Ercoupe.
> The most dramatic change is in the parts pricing which, for decades, has
> been based off of old stocks.
>
> Like everything else, the limitations on parts availability and pricing is
> based on the bankroll behind it.
> Making one is expensive. Making 100 lowers the individual part's cost but
> the outlay is quite high.
> Deciding what to invest in is daunting at times. We've been sitting on
> several thousand dollars in landing gear lamps for almost 10 years now.
>
> I invite everyone else to put their two cents in about what they have and
> what they need.
>
> I'm aware that what I 'm saying may be painfully obvious to most, so
> responses obviously stating that I'm stating the obvious can be sent
> directly to /dev/null. *grin*
>
>
> Best regards,
> Cliff
> *
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Border Air Ltd.
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: Cliff.Coy
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 07:43, Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Nope..but we can throw those two over priced airframes into the mix.
>>
>> 400K for a Yak-52...I can see that..especially for a government.
>>
>> I would be less concerned about what Vietnam is paying for a Yak-52 and
>> more concerned about parts and spares availability. I would guess that if
>> availability continues to be an issue, so will value of these airplanes. I
>> know the P-51 community can pretty much make a brand new P-51 these days, it
>> comes at an enormous cost. A friend of mine had a Mustang that needed one
>> prop blade. If I recall, it cost him about 20K shipped. Multiply that by 4
>> plus a hub and spinner......point is, is it cost effective (or productive)
>> for someone to start making parts that are simply no longer available?
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
>
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
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