---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/28/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:56 AM - Re: Re: 52 spinning (Richard.Goode) 2. 07:10 AM - Re: 52 spinning (mikspin) 3. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: 52 spinning (Richard.Goode) 4. 08:35 AM - Re: Aerobatic Training (shinden33) 5. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: 52 spinning (bill wade) 6. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: 52 spinning (Nigel Willson) 7. 05:50 PM - 52 spinning (Richard.Goode) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:21 AM PST US From: "Richard.Goode" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning No,the springs have far less effect than the airflow over the control surfaces that you need to overcome in the flat spin recovery. Stick forces can be well over 100 pounds,and rudder forces well over 200 pounds!! Richard Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Hereford HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mikspin" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 12:05 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning > > Richard, > > I have read the various Yak 52 spin literature in the past and have always > wondered if the high stick forces quoted were in a Yak 52 with the > original centering springs (or "bungees" as a lot of people call them) > installed. I have flown Yaks with and without these installed and of > course noticed quite a difference in control feel and forces during > maneuvering at the extremes of the envelope. > > TIA > > Mike Hastings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324766#324766 > > > ----------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner > and is believed to be clean. > http://www.invictawiz.com > ----------------------------------------------- > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:58 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning From: "mikspin" Yes, I've read the article many times that states that as such, and I'm aware of the difference between the aerodynamics forces acting on the controls and the force of the springs. Regardless, I am asking if the article you were involved with referred to an aircraft with the springs installed. Thank you Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324797#324797 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:21 AM PST US From: "Richard.Goode" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning No-since I assume that all civilian owners will remove them-but my concern is that all pilots who spin 52s should have been instructed on the issues involved. Richard Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Hereford HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mikspin" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 8:36 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning > > Yes, I've read the article many times that states that as such, and I'm > aware of the difference between the aerodynamics forces acting on the > controls and the force of the springs. > > Regardless, I am asking if the article you were involved with referred to > an aircraft with the springs installed. > > Thank you > > Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324797#324797 > > > ----------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner > and is believed to be clean. > http://www.invictawiz.com > ----------------------------------------------- > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:41 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Aerobatic Training From: "shinden33" I provide Yak-52 type, basic acro, upset and spin training out of SoCal. I am available for travel as well. Feel free to contact me off-line. Best Regards Scott Glaser - MEII 661-754-2732 -------- The Defiant Company www.defiantco.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324815#324815 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:05 AM PST US From: bill wade Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning Richard its been mentioned that you flew two Yak 52 that didn't recover wit h =0Aconventional (Yak 52) control inputs, how did you regain control or di d you =0Abail?=0ABill Wade=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: Richard.Goode =0ATo: yak-list@matr onics.com=0ASent: Tue, December 28, 2010 11:12:02 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-Lis chard.goode@russianaeros.com>=0A=0ANo-since I assume that all civilian owne rs will remove them-but my concern =0Ais that all pilots who spin 52s shoul d have been instructed on the issues =0Ainvolved.=0ARichard=0ARichard Goode Aerobatics=0ARhodds Farm=0ALyonshall=0AHereford=0AHR5 3LW=0AUnited Kingdom =0A=0ATel:- +44 (0) 1544 340120=0AFax:- +44 (0) 1544 340129=0Awww.russi anaeros.com=0AI'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my lo cal phone is =0A+94 779 132 160.=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFr om: "mikspin" =0ATo: =0ASent: T uesday, December 28, 2010 8:36 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning=0A =0A> Yes, I've read the article many times that states that as such, and I' m =0A> aware of the difference between the aerodynamics forces acting on th e =0A> controls and the force of the springs.=0A>=0A> Regardless, I am aski ng if the article you were involved with referred to =0A> an aircraft with the springs installed.=0A>=0A> Thank you=0A>=0A> Mike=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> R ead this topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p hp?p=324797#324797=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ------ -----------------------------------------=0A> This message has been scanned for viruses and=0A> dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner=0A> an d is believed to be clean.=0A> http://www.invictawiz.com=0A> -------------- ========0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:57 PM PST US From: Nigel Willson Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning Bill, The conventional recovery technique involves ailerons central. The aspect of the 52 that can catch you out is that recovery from a flat spin MAY need FU LL IN SPIN aileron. The two yaks Richard mentions will be two that did not r ecover UNLESS the in spin aileron was used. Recovery is prolonged even with t he aileron.. Typically 5 turns or so AFTER full anti spin controls have been applied.... often meaning people relax this approach and try something else - which simply isn't going to work. And when it does recover, it snapshot r equiring fairly fast centralising of all controls. Hence the recommendation f rom any 52 aeros pilot to go and do some with an instructor for the experien ce. Regards Nigel On 28 Dec 2010, at 19:13, bill wade wrote: > Richard its been mentioned that you flew two Yak 52 that didn't recover wi th conventional (Yak 52) control inputs, how did you regain control or did y ou bail? > Bill Wade > > From: Richard.Goode > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 11:12:02 AM > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning > s.com> > > No-since I assume that all civilian owners will remove them-but my concern > is that all pilots who spin 52s should have been instructed on the issues > involved. > Richard > Richard Goode Aerobatics > Rhodds Farm > Lyonshall > Hereford > HR5 3LW > United Kingdom > > Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 > Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 > www.russianaeros.com > I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is > +94 779 132 160. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mikspin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 8:36 PM > Subject: Yak-List: Re: 52 spinning > > > > > > Yes, I've read the article many times that states that as such, and I'm > > aware of the difference between the aerodynamics forces acting on the > > controls and the force of the springs. > > > > Regardless, I am asking if the article you were involved with referred t o > > an aircraft with the springs installed. > > > > Thank you > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324797#324797 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > This message has been scanned for viruses and > > dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner > > and is believed to be clean. > > http://www.invictawiz.com > > -------------der's Bookstore wttp://www.homebuilthelp.com/" target=_bl ank>www.homebuilthelp.com > nbsp; ================= ====== > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:11 PM PST US From: "Richard.Goode" Subject: Yak-List: 52 spinning To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52. But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was shocked that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to recover from a spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had begun the spin at over 6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research on the whole topic,mainly with Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF who had,collectively,thousands of hours of 52 spinning.From this it became clear that conventional recovery MAY not work in the 52,although it WILL recover if the pilot understands the possible slowness of recovery;the very high control forces and the POSSIBLE need for inspin aeleron.Of course this is only normally the case with a developed flat spin,but no one should spin a 52 on the assumption that the spin will not develop or go flat!! Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Hereford HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com I=92m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.