Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:41 AM - Re: 52 spinning (andrew richards)
2. 02:04 AM - Re: 52 spinning (Richard.Goode)
3. 03:54 AM - Re: 52 spinning (andrew richards)
4. 06:35 AM - CJ6 wheel well drag (Hal)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: CJ6 wheel well drag (Genzlinger, Reade)
6. 07:57 AM - Re: 52 spinning (Dr Andres Katz)
7. 08:07 AM - Re: CJ6 wheel well drag (Paul Lewis)
8. 02:10 PM - Re: CJ6 wheel well drag (Thomas Geoghegan)
9. 04:15 PM - Gapless Rings (Okanogan Lew)
10. 07:23 PM - Re: CJ6 wheel well drag (Eric Wobschall)
11. 08:21 PM - Re: 52 spinning (bill wade)
12. 09:13 PM - Re: 52 spinning (Roger Kemp)
13. 09:37 PM - Re: 52 spinning (Richard.Goode)
14. 09:43 PM - 52 spinning (Richard.Goode)
Message 1
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Hi Richard
I just bought a 55M out of the US, it will be on a boat this week. Are
there these types of spin issues with the 55M?
I have no time on 55's, only Pitts and Extra's.
Andrew
On 12/29/10, Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52.
> But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was shocked
> that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to recover from a
> spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had begun the spin at
> over 6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research on the whole
> topic,mainly with Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF who
> had,collectively,thousands of hours of 52 spinning.From this it became clear
> that conventional recovery MAY not work in the 52,although it WILL recover
> if the pilot understands the possible slowness of recovery;the very high
> control forces and the POSSIBLE need for inspin aeleron.Of course this is
> only normally the case with a developed flat spin,but no one should spin a
> 52 on the assumption that the spin will not develop or go flat!!
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
Message 2
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To the best of my knowledge,none of these 52 cautions are issues with the
55,which has excellent spin recovery characteristics.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
----- Original Message -----
From: "andrew richards" <andrewrichards7@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: 52 spinning
Hi Richard
I just bought a 55M out of the US, it will be on a boat this week. Are
there these types of spin issues with the 55M?
I have no time on 55's, only Pitts and Extra's.
Andrew
On 12/29/10, Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52.
> But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was
> shocked
> that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to recover from
> a
> spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had begun the spin at
> over 6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research on the whole
> topic,mainly with Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF who
> had,collectively,thousands of hours of 52 spinning.From this it became
> clear
> that conventional recovery MAY not work in the 52,although it WILL recover
> if the pilot understands the possible slowness of recovery;the very high
> control forces and the POSSIBLE need for inspin aeleron.Of course this is
> only normally the case with a developed flat spin,but no one should spin a
> 52 on the assumption that the spin will not develop or go flat!!
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
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Message 3
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Thanks Richard.
Andrew
On 12/29/10, Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
> To the best of my knowledge,none of these 52 cautions are issues with the
> 55,which has excellent spin recovery characteristics.
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "andrew richards" <andrewrichards7@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: 52 spinning
>
>
>
> Hi Richard
>
> I just bought a 55M out of the US, it will be on a boat this week. Are
> there these types of spin issues with the 55M?
>
> I have no time on 55's, only Pitts and Extra's.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 12/29/10, Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
>> To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52.
>> But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was
>> shocked
>> that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to recover from
>>
>> a
>> spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had begun the spin at
>> over 6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research on the whole
>> topic,mainly with Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF who
>> had,collectively,thousands of hours of 52 spinning.From this it became
>> clear
>> that conventional recovery MAY not work in the 52,although it WILL recover
>> if the pilot understands the possible slowness of recovery;the very high
>> control forces and the POSSIBLE need for inspin aeleron.Of course this is
>> only normally the case with a developed flat spin,but no one should spin a
>> 52 on the assumption that the spin will not develop or go flat!!
>> Richard Goode Aerobatics
>> Rhodds Farm
>> Lyonshall
>> Hereford
>> HR5 3LW
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>> www.russianaeros.com
>> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
>> +94 779 132 160.
>>
>>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner
> and is believed to be clean.
> http://www.invictawiz.com
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>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | CJ6 wheel well drag |
Paul,
As part of our drag reduction development work on "Hana Hou", Tom Elliott
and I took a ton of video and still pictures in flight with the plane
extensively tufted. Corroborating Craig Payne's experience, we found very
little disturbance aft of the main wheel wells. We therefore spent most of
our time in and around the engine area as you have seen.
As for exhaust gasses in the cockpit, the side exhaust stacks have almost
totally eliminated the problem even when generating smoke on both sides.
With the exhaust stack configuration on "Hana Hou" I have experienced more
noise, and that is requiring some changes in the intercom/headset equipment
to overcome. So far I have found that the Lightspeed Zulu headsets are the
best headsets I have tried, but not a coplete solution.
Hal Morley
Message 5
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| Subject: | CJ6 wheel well drag |
Hal:
RE: Headsets - my experience in flying Yaks and other round engine
airplanes (NA-50, Wilga) is that the ZULU is a great headset but for the
really noisy ones, the older Bose Series II (second generation) headsets
are the best. They are heavy but very rugged and seem to handle the
noise just a little better. I use the ZULU in the TD (stock exhaust)
and it works fine.
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corp.
215.914.0370
With the exhaust stack configuration on "Hana Hou" I have experienced
more noise, and that is requiring some changes in the intercom/headset
equipment to overcome. So far I have found that the Lightspeed Zulu
headsets are the best headsets I have tried, but not a coplete solution.
Hal Morley
Message 6
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inverted spin training in yak55m includes the jesus maneuver as per nik =0A
timofeyev if all fails center the stick keep some power on=C2-, opposite
=C2-rudder =0Aand pray same characteristics as 52=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: andrew richards <andrewrichards7@gmail.com>
=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 29, 2010 3:37:58 AM=0AS
ew richards <andrewrichards7@gmail.com>=0A=0AHi Richard=0A=0AI just bought
a 55M out of the US, it will be on a boat this week. Are=0Athere these type
s of spin issues with the 55M?=0A=0AI have no time on 55's, only Pitts and
Extra's.=0A=0AAndrew=0A=0AOn 12/29/10, Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russian
aeros.com> wrote:=0A> To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52
.=0A> But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was
shocked=0A> that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to r
ecover from a=0A> spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had
begun the spin at=0A> over 6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of researc
h on the whole=0A> topic,mainly with Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSA
AF who=0A> had,collectively,thousands of hours of 52 spinning.From this it
became clear=0A> that conventional recovery MAY not work in the 52,although
it WILL recover=0A> if the pilot understands the possible slowness of reco
very;the very high=0A> control forces and the POSSIBLE need for inspin aele
ron.Of course this is=0A> only normally the case with a developed flat spin
,but no one should spin a=0A> 52 on the assumption that the spin will not d
evelop or go flat!!=0A> Richard Goode Aerobatics=0A> Rhodds Farm=0A> Lyonsh
all=0A> Hereford=0A> HR5 3LW=0A> United Kingdom=0A>=0A> Tel:=C2- +44 (0)
1544 340120=0A> Fax:=C2- +44 (0) 1544 340129=0A> www.russianaeros.com=0A>
I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local p
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List
=======
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 wheel well drag |
Hi Hal, thanks for the info.
Paul
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Hal <yakjock@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> As part of our drag reduction development work on "Hana Hou", Tom Elliott
> and I took a ton of video and still pictures in flight with the plane
> extensively tufted. Corroborating Craig Payne's experience, we found very
> little disturbance aft of the main wheel wells. We therefore spent most of
> our time in and around the engine area as you have seen.
>
> As for exhaust gasses in the cockpit, the side exhaust stacks have almost
> totally eliminated the problem even when generating smoke on both sides.
> With the exhaust stack configuration on "Hana Hou" I have experienced more
> noise, and that is requiring some changes in the intercom/headset equipment
> to overcome. So far I have found that the Lightspeed Zulu headsets are the
> best headsets I have tried, but not a coplete solution.
>
> Hal Morley
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 wheel well drag |
Hal <yakjock@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul,
As part of our drag reduction development work on "Hana Hou", Tom Elliott a
nd I took a ton of video and still pictures in flight with the plane extens
ively tufted. Corroborating Craig Payne's experience, we found very little
disturbance aft of the main wheel wells. We therefore spent most of our t
ime in and around the engine area as you have seen.
As for exhaust gasses in the cockpit, the side exhaust stacks have almost t
otally eliminated the problem even when generating smoke on both sides. Wi
th the exhaust stack configuration on "Hana Hou" I have experienced more no
ise, and that is requiring some changes in the intercom/headset equipment t
o overcome. So far I have found that the Lightspeed Zulu headsets are the
best headsets I have tried, but not a coplete solution.
Hal Morley
rsbooks.com>
m>
Message 9
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Guys, I am going to overhaul the top end on my CJ6A engine & Doug was telling me
about a mod that Blackwell does with gapless rings & custom piston's. Any one
have info on that mod? Thanks in advance.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324955#324955
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 wheel well drag |
The Telex Status 50D seems very good in high noise environment (much
better than the Bose X, not sure about the older ones), but the Clarity
Aloft is my favorite... all passive, very intelligible mic and very low
mass.
On Dec 29, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Genzlinger, Reade wrote:
> Hal:
>
> RE: Headsets ' my experience in flying Yaks and other round engine
airplanes (NA-50, Wilga) is that the ZULU is a great headset but for the
really noisy ones, the older Bose Series II (second generation) headsets
are the best. They are heavy but very rugged and seem to handle the
noise just a little better. I use the ZULU in the TD (stock exhaust)
and it works fine.
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corp.
> 215.914.0370
>
> With the exhaust stack configuration on "Hana Hou" I have experienced
more noise, and that is requiring some changes in the intercom/headset
equipment to overcome. So far I have found that the Lightspeed Zulu
headsets are the best headsets I have tried, but not a coplete solution.
>
> Hal Morley
>
>
> ==========
>
>
Message 11
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Thanks for clarifying that Richard, has anyone bailed from a=C2-Yak that
didn't =0Arecover or do most just ride it in.=C2-Next question Richard do
es the 52TD have the =0Asame flat spin characteristics as the 52?=0ABill Wa
de=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Richard.Goode <ri
chard.goode@russianaeros.com>=0ATo: YAK USA LIST <yak-list@matronics.com>
=0ASent: Tue, December 28, 2010 8:55:04 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: 52 spinning
=0A=0A=0ATo make the position clear,I was not flying either 52.=0ABut after
the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was shocked =0Athat
such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to recover from a
=0Aspin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had begun the spin
at over =0A6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research on the whole t
opic,mainly with =0AYakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF who had,collec
tively,thousands of hours =0Aof 52 spinning.From this it became clear that
conventional recovery MAY not work =0Ain the 52,although it=C2-WILL recov
er if the pilot understands the possible =0Aslowness of recovery;the very h
igh control forces and the POSSIBLE need for =0Ainspin aeleron.Of course th
is is only normally the case with a developed flat =0Aspin,but no one shoul
d spin a 52 on the assumption that the spin will =0Anot=C2-develop or go
flat!!=0ARichard Goode Aerobatics =0ARhodds Farm =0ALyonshall =0AHereford
=0AHR5 3LW =0AUnited Kingdom =0A=0ATel:=C2-=C2- +44 (0) 1544 340120begi
n_of_the_skype_highlighting=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-+44 (0) =0A1544 340120=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-end_of_the_skype_highlighting =0A=0AFax:=C2- +44 (0)
1544 340129 =0Awww.russianaeros.com=0AI=99m currently in Sri Lanka b
ut this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 =0A779 132 160begin_of_th
e_skype_highlighting=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-+94 779 132 =0A160=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
========== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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Do you have a smoke oil tank mounted aft of the rear seat? If so don't fly acro
with it full and > 60 kg back seated and making the mistake of getting slow at
high alpha with the addition of cross control. You may find yourself testing
the in spin aileron recovery thing.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: bill wade <bwade154@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 29, 2010 10:14 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: 52 spinning
>
>Thanks for clarifying that Richard, has anyone bailed from aYak that didn't
>recover or do most just ride it in.Next question Richard does the 52TD have the
>same flat spin characteristics as the 52?
>Bill Wade
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>To: YAK USA LIST <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 8:55:04 PM
>Subject: Yak-List: 52 spinning
>
>
>To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52.
>But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was shocked
>that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to recover from a
>spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had begun the spin at over
>6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research on the whole topic,mainly with
>Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF who had,collectively,thousands of hours
>of 52 spinning.From this it became clear that conventional recovery MAY not work
>in the 52,although itWILL recover if the pilot understands the possible
>slowness of recovery;the very high control forces and the POSSIBLE need for
>inspin aeleron.Of course this is only normally the case with a developed flat
>spin,but no one should spin a 52 on the assumption that the spin will
>notdevelop or go flat!!
>Richard Goode Aerobatics
>Rhodds Farm
>Lyonshall
>Hereford
>HR5 3LW
>United Kingdom
>
>Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120begin_of_the_skype_highlighting+44 (0)
>1544 340120end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>
>Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>www.russianaeros.com
>Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94
>779 132 160begin_of_the_skype_highlighting+94 779 132
>160==========
>
>
Message 13
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I know of 4 cases where they have spun in.Usually two-up since the
rearward C og G greatly agravates the problem.And two where they have
jumped.
But,to present a balanced picture,1800 or so 52s made and all of the
ones in the East were doing aeros. and spinning continuously,so
thousands of spins in total.
I would suggest that the TD is a bit better,without the nose wheel,which
adds to the inertia;most of them have much of the heavy electronic kit
removed from behind the rear seat,and most will have a bit of fuel
remaining in front of the spar [the long-range tanks] which will take C
of G a bit forward.But otherwise very similar!
BUT,any significant amount of fuel left in the tanks will exacerbate the
problem,since,as you spin the fuel will go out board and increase the
rotational inertia.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local
phone is +94 779 132 160.
----- Original Message -----
From: bill wade
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: 52 spinning
Thanks for clarifying that Richard, has anyone bailed from a Yak that
didn't recover or do most just ride it in. Next question Richard does
the 52TD have the same flat spin characteristics as the 52?
Bill Wade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Richard.Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
To: YAK USA LIST <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 8:55:04 PM
Subject: Yak-List: 52 spinning
To make the position clear,I was not flying either 52.
But after the Martin Stahlik accident in a 52 that we had sold,I was
shocked that such an experienced and skilled pilot could be unable to
recover from a spin,particularly since he had a lot of altitude,and had
begun the spin at over 6,000 feet.In consequence I did a lot of research
on the whole topic,mainly with Yakovlev and pilots from Russia's DOSAAF
who had,collectively,thousands of hours of 52 spinning.From this it
became clear that conventional recovery MAY not work in the 52,although
it WILL recover if the pilot understands the possible slowness of
recovery;the very high control forces and the POSSIBLE need for inspin
aeleron.Of course this is only normally the case with a developed flat
spin,but no one should spin a 52 on the assumption that the spin will
not develop or go flat!!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my
local phone is +94 779 132 160 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
+94 779 132 160 end_of_the_skype_highlighting.
www.homebuilthelp.com
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 14
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It is also worth adding that the MAXIMUM that the Russians will allow in
the rear cockpit of a 52 is 100 kilos [220 pounds] and that includes
parachute;clothing;any cushions etc.I suspect that in the land of the
Big Mac,there are a number of pilots/passengers in the rear cockpit who
are well over this!!!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I=92m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone
is +94 779 132 160.
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