---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/03/11: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:26 AM - Gordon "Buzzard" (Russ) 2. 01:36 PM - Re: In defense of CJs (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 3. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: Nanchang Registry () 4. 02:46 PM - interest in Dallas-area formation clinic in May? (Jon Boede) 5. 05:23 PM - Re: In defense of CJs (N642K) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:55 AM PST US From: "Russ" Subject: Yak-List: Gordon "Buzzard" Sorry for the late reply. He and his family (which includes you all, his RPA family) have been added to my prayer list. Russ "Bull" Witte-Dycus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:50 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: In defense of CJs From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Well of course as a YAK-50 owner, I have to weigh in here. It is not really accurate for folks to use the term "Yak" in a general sort of way. There is a ton of difference in the performance between the YAK-52 (all models), the YAK-50, the YAK-54 and the YAK-55. What is Vne on the CJ ??? Is it above about 285 MPH? I don't think so. So, yes.... the YAK-50 can outrun the CJ in a dive. Kind of like the P-47 Thunderbolt. It could run away from just about anything in a dive. The YAK-50 can easily out dive the CJ. What is maximum level speed at full throttle of the CJ-6 ?? The YAK-50 claims 200 mph straight and level. Personally, I have never seen that. On a perfect day, I have achieved a measured 197 mph WFO, and that means intentionally exceeding the maximum full power output time limitations. That's with the 360 HP M-14P and a stock Russian paddle blade prop. The YAK-50 has a better thrust to weight ratio and can indeed fight in the vertical far better than the CJ. It also has a higher roll rate, and higher G limitations, although it is not very smart to run it up to 9 G's anymore. Of course there is always the matter of pilot skills, and his or her knowledge of tactics, and I agree with Pappy 100%. You don't fight to the other guy's strengths! ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. For what it is worth, I do indeed tend to go vertical with any opponent when I know my vertical penetration is going to greatly exceed that of my opponent. As far as it working only in a canned setup with a cooperating bogey, I would go back to actual accounts of WW-II with the written stories of actual fighter pilots going against Jap Zero's. This tactic was used very effectively against American pilots in the beginning of the war and accounted for a lot of lost American aircraft, until our aircraft improved enough to where the roles were reversed. We initially countered their aircraft handling superiority with "tactics" designed to force them into fighting to our strengths, just like Pappy said. Any Yak can be defeated by any CJ, given the right circumstances. However, the performance of the YAK-50 in a dogfight is vastly superior to the CJ-6. This is not a matter of pride of ownership (well, OK... maybe a little) but really is a simple matter of just looking at the numbers. The YAK-50 has a higher rate of climb, a higher thrust to weight ratio, better vertical penetration, better roll rate, and higher G limitations. It is a purpose built aerobatic aircraft. The CJ does not have any of these strengths. All that said, put the right guy into the CJ and he will probably beat the YAK-50 every time. But given equal pilot skill and knowledge levels, I don't honestly see how a CJ-6 could ever beat a YAK-50. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: In defense of CJs Oh No Goatboy. You've crossed a line here. I've yet seen a Yak out run a CJ. You don't fight to the other guy's strength. You kill with your own. AC101 "Boots" Pappy -----Original Message----- From: Dave "Goatboy" Jester Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 7:58 am Subject: Re: Yak-List: In defense of CJs gheez, how about a little poetic license... ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: In defense of CJs Here we go.....:-) Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Hamlin To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 8:02 PM Subject: Yak-List: In defense of CJs You may have have read in the latest issue of Red Alert, the magazine of the Red Star Pilots Association, "you Yak guys go verticle when maneuvering against a CJ, works every time." It should be noted that this works particularly well in a canned setup with a cooperating bogey. =================================== get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:13 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Nanchang Registry Steve and Donna Hanshew Leesburg, Ohio 1972 CJ-6A Ser No. 2751259 ---- matt salkeld wrote: > > > > > Harv > > Far too many sources. Some straight from the Manufacturer (http://www.hongdu.com.cn/) Most civil stuff straight off the civil registry's. Military aircraft are from a variety of sources (still several hundred military CJ6 / PT6 not listed yet) Hongdu (Nanchang) says they have over 2400 built now > > Cheers > > Matt > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:36 PM PST US From: Jon Boede Subject: Yak-List: interest in Dallas-area formation clinic in May? Am thinking of putting together a RPA formation clinic in the Dallas area o n the weekend of May 14th=2C which is the weekend after Mother's Day this y ear. Please email me if you would be vaguely interested in coming... just trying to get a feel for it right now. Also=2C if this conflicts with another event=2C please let me know. Thanks=2C Jon ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:56 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: In defense of CJs From: "N642K" You will probably beat me up in your Yak. I'll still be smiling. I have a back seater, a hundred pounds of beer, luggage and probably your weekend laundry onboard. [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325502#325502 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.