Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:30 AM - Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust valve guide? (tjyak50)
2. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust valve guide? (doug sapp)
3. 09:33 AM - Removing cowl gills/shutters (Yak Pilot)
4. 10:10 AM - Strong Parachute Selection (Philip Nicholson)
5. 10:24 AM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 11:36 AM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust valve guide? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 02:56 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (Eric Wobschall)
9. 03:04 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 03:13 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (Eric Wobschall)
11. 04:26 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (Kurt Howerton)
12. 05:32 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (Thomas Geoghegan)
13. 05:40 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (Eric Wobschall)
14. 09:38 PM - Re: Strong Parachute Selection (Herb Coussons)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust valve guide? |
Pete:
If the guide is bad, why not just replace the cylinder. I think that will be a
lot easier, faster and probably cheaper in the long run.
Getting the guide in and out (straight) is a trick.
Tj
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326103#326103
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust valve |
guide?
Guys,
I have put out some feelers in China. Should have word back in about 2
weeks.
I do have intake seats and springs in stock as well as a 2 or 3 exhaust
valves. At this time used serviceable "as removed" cyls are in stock. By
spring we will have overhauled cyls in stock for the 285 hp HS6A engines.
Doug
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:27 AM, tjyak50 <tomjohnson@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Pete:
> If the guide is bad, why not just replace the cylinder. I think that will
> be a lot easier, faster and probably cheaper in the long run.
>
> Getting the guide in and out (straight) is a trick.
>
> Tj
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326103#326103
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Removing cowl gills/shutters |
A note on removing the shutters. If you do that on a YAK-50 or 52, you will soon
start seeing damage occur in or near the nose tube piece that the cowl rivets
to. The gills in a 50/52 actually provide structural support for the cowl
ring, which in turn supports the actual cowl (upper and lower). I don't know about
a CJ, but it is probably the same.
The solution is to run four struts from the former inner nose ring (studs in engine
reduction gear case) out to the cowl support ring that the cowl sits on when
it clamps shut. Basically you are providing four rigid rods structurally
connecting the front of the engine to the cowl ring.
In the Yak 50/52, removing the gills/shutters and not installing these support
rods will mean you are going to have cowl and cowl ring damage very soon. The
first indication you will have is the horizontal support rods coming out from
the engine cylinders to the cowl ring will start breaking.
I learned this hard lesson by ruining an engine cowl. :-(
Mark
--- On Sat, 1/8/11, Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
> From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto Spark Plug Conversion
> To: "yak-list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 7:27 AM
> Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> The BR6HS is in the mid-range of heat transfer range. I
> found the -6 to be a good all-around choice but I prefer the
> hotter -5 or even BR4HS for the way I run my engine. I don't
> think there is any "best" plug, it's all about what's best
> for the way the engine is operated.
>
> For M-14P's that are mostly operated at Cruise I or II
> settings, the warmer plugs will burn off more lead and
> combustion deposits. I have also removed my shutters since I
> set my 24" dia. Crowder spinner inside the cowling opening.
>
> For short durations at high power settings, such as mostly
> acro sessions, the cooler range spark plugs may be the best
> compromise.
>
> Craig Payne
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Strong Parachute Selection |
Gentlemen,
I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
wonder if it would be as
comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Philip Nicholson
(Ontario)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat
pan. The 304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs
will rub up against the edges of the seat pan. Many people over 6'1"
use the 306 including in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat
adjustment without a problem. Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ
if you think you're too close to the canopy glass.
Dennis
On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Philip Nicholson<pednicholson@gmail.com>
>
> Gentlemen,
> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
> wonder if it would be as
> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Philip Nicholson
> (Ontario)
>
>
--
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-2141
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
One of things you need to be concerned about on chutes, is its porosity.
I had a chute for a number of years until the gal I had repacking it sug
gested that if I had to use it, I'd want to consider trying to land in tre
es! Otherwise I'd "most likely brake ankles or leg." Now I have made 7
jumps and you do land with a very pronounced thud. And since my current
wight is more massive than back 63, I took her advice.
Anyway I advise you make sure you take into account your weight (now & fut
ure) when picking the chute. And gentle men, always put into your mind a
plan on when you will use a chute. What conditions will you 'step over
the side'? Try imagine all the situations that would make you do so. Pl
us take a little time climbing OUT of your cockpit with your chute on. Yo
u may be surprised how difficult it is. You can take this educational exp
erience if you will all the way to a local jump school and try one or a co
uple of tandem jumps with an instructor. Much saner than the old days, be
lieve me.
And if you don't think you'll ever need to? - - - well I nearly departed
a Pitts I spent 5 long years building. With smoke filling the cockpit,
one flicker of flame and I would have departed all that work, in 5/10s of
a second. That kind of 'back-up' and a plan made long before, allowed me
to think about and work the situation. A chute is not just to sit on.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:20 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strong Parachute Selection
uth.net>
The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan.
The 304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub
up against the edges of the seat pan. Many people over 6'1" use the 306
including in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment withou
t a problem. Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're to
o close to the canopy glass.
Dennis
On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
>
> Gentlemen,
> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
> wonder if it would be as
> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Philip Nicholson
> (Ontario)
>
>
>
>
>
-- A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-2141
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust valve |
guide?
I just happen to have a exhaust valve guide. Bought it some 13 years ago
when I thought I needed it when I had the Housai in the Dragon.
Contact me off list. (and be prepared to pay Baby!) ;-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 9, 2011 11:59 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Anyone know where I can find a Housai exhaust
valve guide?
Guys,
I have put out some feelers in China. Should have word back in about 2 we
eks.
I do have intake seats and springs in stock as well as a 2 or 3 exhaust va
lves. At this time used serviceable "as removed" cyls are in stock. By
spring we will have overhauled cyls in stock for the 285 hp HS6A engines.
Doug
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:27 AM, tjyak50 <tomjohnson@cox.net> wrote:
Pete:
If the guide is bad, why not just replace the cylinder. I think that will
be a lot easier, faster and probably cheaper in the long run.
Getting the guide in and out (straight) is a trick.
Tj
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326103#326103
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
Let me add that if you're tall, you need to be sure about your seat cushion height
with the 306, because you can't remove it and replace it with a thinner one
the way you can with a 304. Standard on the 306 (Squadron) is 4 inches. I ordered
a 306 with C-9 chute (which is bigger than standard), and it came with
the standard 4-inch cushion and I couldn't close the canopy (Yak-52). If I had
ordered the cushion in one or two-inch memory foam, I probably would have cleared
OK. I would up having to sell it and I did get the 304 with an additional
one inch travel pad, which is OK in my seat pan. However I'm tall, and with my
knees bent quite a bit, so I don't touch the front of the pan with my thighs
as Dennis mentioned. Just my experience as a tall person in a 52. No idea about
other types. -Eric
On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan. The
304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub up against
the edges of the seat pan. Many people over 6'1" use the 306 including in
the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment without a problem. Use
the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're too close to the canopy
glass.
> Dennis
>
> On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Philip Nicholson<pednicholson@gmail.com>
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
>> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
>> wonder if it would be as
>> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
>> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
>> Thoughts?
>> Thanks,
>> Philip Nicholson
>> (Ontario)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-2141
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
You're right on the money Eric. But the CJ has a vertically adjustable
seat which helps with the height issues.
Dennis
On 1/9/2011 4:53 PM, Eric Wobschall wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Eric Wobschall<eric@buffaloskyline.com>
>
> Let me add that if you're tall, you need to be sure about your seat cushion height
with the 306, because you can't remove it and replace it with a thinner
one the way you can with a 304. Standard on the 306 (Squadron) is 4 inches. I
ordered a 306 with C-9 chute (which is bigger than standard), and it came with
the standard 4-inch cushion and I couldn't close the canopy (Yak-52). If I had
ordered the cushion in one or two-inch memory foam, I probably would have cleared
OK. I would up having to sell it and I did get the 304 with an additional
one inch travel pad, which is OK in my seat pan. However I'm tall, and with
my knees bent quite a bit, so I don't touch the front of the pan with my thighs
as Dennis mentioned. Just my experience as a tall person in a 52. No idea about
other types. -Eric
>
>
> On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan. The
304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub up against
the edges of the seat pan. Many people over 6'1" use the 306 including in
the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment without a problem. Use
the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're too close to the canopy
glass.
>> Dennis
>>
>> On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Philip Nicholson<pednicholson@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Gentlemen,
>>> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
>>> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
>>> wonder if it would be as
>>> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
>>> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
>>> Thoughts?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Philip Nicholson
>>> (Ontario)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-2141
>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>> Skype: Yakguy1
>> www.yak-52.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-2141
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
Nice feature.
On Jan 10, 2011, at 6:02 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> You're right on the money Eric. But the CJ has a vertically adjustable seat
which helps with the height issues.
> Dennis
>
> On 1/9/2011 4:53 PM, Eric Wobschall wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Eric Wobschall<eric@buffaloskyline.com>
>>
>> Let me add that if you're tall, you need to be sure about your seat cushion
height with the 306, because you can't remove it and replace it with a thinner
one the way you can with a 304. Standard on the 306 (Squadron) is 4 inches. I
ordered a 306 with C-9 chute (which is bigger than standard), and it came with
the standard 4-inch cushion and I couldn't close the canopy (Yak-52). If I
had ordered the cushion in one or two-inch memory foam, I probably would have
cleared OK. I would up having to sell it and I did get the 304 with an additional
one inch travel pad, which is OK in my seat pan. However I'm tall, and with
my knees bent quite a bit, so I don't touch the front of the pan with my thighs
as Dennis mentioned. Just my experience as a tall person in a 52. No idea
about other types. -Eric
>>
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:20 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> The 306 is the way to go as it fits properly and snugly in the seat pan. The
304 will be sloppy in the seat pan and your legs and thighs will rub up against
the edges of the seat pan. Many people over 6'1" use the 306 including
in the 52 which does not have a vertical seat adjustment without a problem.
Use the seat height adjuster on the CJ if you think you're too close to the canopy
glass.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> On 1/9/2011 12:07 PM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
>>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Philip Nicholson<pednicholson@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Gentlemen,
>>>> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
>>>> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
>>>> wonder if it would be as
>>>> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
>>>> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Philip Nicholson
>>>> (Ontario)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> A. Dennis Savarese
>>> 334-285-2141
>>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>>> Skype: Yakguy1
>>> www.yak-52.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-2141
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
306 for me. Quite comfortable. No bumping of my head (6'3")
--
Kurt "It" Howerton
N923YK
530.312.1299
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:13, Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gentlemen,
> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
> wonder if it would be as
> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Philip Nicholson
> (Ontario)
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Strong Parachute Selection |
Philip,
I am going through the same process right now. I just bought a CJ-6A and pu
t many hours looking at chutes (I've never had a chute before). I narrowed
it down to the Strong 306 or the Butler. Butler makes custom chutes. They m
ake the harness specific to the pilot (you send them several different meas
urements) and they have a model that is made specifically for the CJ seat p
an.
Other than one being customized for the pilot (Butler), the biggest differe
nce I have seen between the two are the Operation Limitations. The Strong 3
06 is limited to 254lbs (115kg) and up to 150 knots IAS. Butler's Custom Se
at Pack (CJ-6A) has three chute options with different Operating Limitation
s:
1. LoPo 350 is rated for 220lbs @ 150 knots.
2. LoPo 450 is rated for 285lbs @ 150 knots.
3. LoPo 550 is rated for 350lbs @ 150 knots.
Strong 306 Operation Limitation (Section 1.3 http://www.strongparachutes.c
om/Documents/PDF_Files/306manual2.pdf)
Butler's LoPo Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/LoPo%2
0Intro%20page.htm
Butler also has their H-X series Canopies that utilizes their BAT Sombrero
Slider system that has been certificated for speeds over 150 knots. Their r
atings are:
1. H-X 300 is rated for 175lbs @ 150 KEAS
2. H-X 400 is rated for 236lbs @ 170 KEAS
3. H-X 500 is rated for 306lbs @ 170 KEAS
4. H-X 600 is rated for 382lbs @ 170 KEAS
Butler's H-X Operation Limitations: http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.h
tm
I am not going to try to explain what the BAT Sombrero Slider system does,
but from their web site "We have demonstrated beyond any doubt that the BAT
Sombrero Slider(tm) is the most effective device ever invented for control
ling the inflation process of conventional parachutes. It completely elimin
ates inversion type malfunctions and provides the parachute designer with o
ne of his most versatile tools in controlling opening shock and force profi
les. Further, it is the only device ever invented that benefits the entire
speed range of the parachute system with no detrimental side effects." It's
worth reading their web page about the BAT and you can make your own decis
ion. http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm The price difference betwee
n the Lopo 550 and the H-X 500 was around $900.
I was intrigued about the H-X series and a local aerobatics Pitts pilot tol
d me he would fly with nothing but that system due to the higher opening sp
eed and especially due to the BAT system, which opens the chute quicker. Th
e above ratings for the H-X are 170 KEAS, but Butler states they have done
much testing of their chutes and others and their chutes have not failed we
ll above 170 while other manufacturers have. This got me thinking though ab
out how fast you would be traveling when you ejected from a plane. My think
ing was that you would slow down quickly and would be pulling your chute at
a speed much lower than when you ejected. I posed this question to Tom Fow
ler of Butler and he responded "You will slow to 150 knots from 200 knots i
n approximately one second. With structural failure, the aircraft will acc
elerate to a faster speed than red-line. This type of emergency is difficu
lt to bail out from and by the time you get out the aircraft is probably go
ing to be going hair-on-fire fast. It is rare, but it has happened and the
pilot successfully bailed out but the canopy failed because he was going t
oo fast."
The best price I have found so far on the Strong is from the Parachute Shop
for $2,050. http://www.parachuteshop.com/STRONG.htm#Model_306_Squadron_Sea
t
Butler's direct price for the LoPo 550 was $2,210, and $135 for a 3" cushio
n. I haven't shopped that price yet.
Butler states that it takes about 6 weeks to custom make the chute.
Strong says 3-4 weeks if they don't have one in stock, or you customize it
(pockets, etc).
I spoke with many CJ and Yak pilots. It seemed the majority (60%) owned the
Strong 306. Everyone liked the chute they owned, and no one had anything b
ad to say about either one other then any chute will become uncomfortable a
fter a few hours. One Butler chute owner did state that their cushion was r
eally hard in the cold until their butt warmed it up. Most said that adding
a sheepskin pad, lumbar support, and a pocket for ELT/Cell/etc is worth th
e extra money.
I am a heavier guy, so I am considering the Butler for that reason, but I t
hink either chute would work. I was considering purchasing a Strong 306 and
seeing how I like it. Then when I was ready to buy my second chute, either
get the same one or move the 306 to the rear seat and get a Butler. I may
still do that, but I need to get moving for I need to fly soon!
Tom Fowler is a good person to talk to about the Butler. His email is Tom.F
owler@ButlerParachutes.com<mailto:Tom.Fowler@ButlerParachutes.com>
John Makoski is the Sales Mgr for Strong. His email is jmakoski@strongparac
hutes.com<mailto:jmakoski@strongparachutes.com>
Good Luck. Let me know what you decide to do.
Tom
PS. I had sent Strong an email asking which harness (304 or 306) and chute
(26 or 29) they recommended for the CJ. John Makoski's reply was "For the N
anchang, we highly recommend the Model 306 Squadron seat pack. This partic
ular model replaces any existing cushion you may have in the seat pan. The
total thickness of the seat cushion plus the chute you are sitting on is a
pproximately 6". The differences of the 2 canopies you specified below are
that the 26ft. canopy is rated at 254 lbs at 150 knts. The C-9 canopy is
rated around 300 lbs at 150 knts. The C-9 is a much more poris canopy whic
h means it can withstand the higher knts however you will be coming down mu
ch faster. We would definitely recommend our 26 ft. midlite. This is the
most common and popular canopy for all of our warbird communities. "
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip Nicholson
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:08 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Strong Parachute Selection
Gentlemen,
I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
wonder if it would be as
comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Philip Nicholson
(Ontario)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
The Parachute Shop can hook you up with a 306 Squadron with the Mills
C-9 which supposedly has no life limit and can do heavier at a higher
speed. Watch that pad thickness, though.
On Jan 9, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:
> Philip,
> I am going through the same process right now. I just bought a CJ-6A
and put many hours looking at chutes (I=92ve never had a chute before).
I narrowed it down to the Strong 306 or the Butler. Butler makes custom
chutes. They make the harness specific to the pilot (you send them
several different measurements) and they have a model that is made
specifically for the CJ seat pan.
>
> Other than one being customized for the pilot (Butler), the biggest
difference I have seen between the two are the Operation Limitations.
The Strong 306 is limited to 254lbs (115kg) and up to 150 knots IAS.
Butler's Custom Seat Pack (CJ-6A) has three chute options with different
Operating Limitations:
> 1. LoPo 350 is rated for 220lbs @ 150 knots.
> 2. LoPo 450 is rated for 285lbs @ 150 knots.
> 3. LoPo 550 is rated for 350lbs @ 150 knots.
>
> Strong 306 Operation Limitation (Section 1.3
http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/306manual2.pdf)
> Butler=92s LoPo Operation Limitations:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/LoPo%20Intro%20page.htm
>
> Butler also has their H-X series Canopies that utilizes their BAT
Sombrero Slider system that has been certificated for speeds over 150
knots. Their ratings are:
> 1. H-X 300 is rated for 175lbs @ 150 KEAS
> 2. H-X 400 is rated for 236lbs @ 170 KEAS
> 3. H-X 500 is rated for 306lbs @ 170 KEAS
> 4. H-X 600 is rated for 382lbs @ 170 KEAS
> Butler=92s H-X Operation Limitations:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm
> I am not going to try to explain what the BAT Sombrero Slider system
does, but from their web site =93We have demonstrated beyond any doubt
that the BAT Sombrero Slider=99 is the most effective device ever
invented for controlling the inflation process of conventional
parachutes. It completely eliminates inversion type malfunctions and
provides the parachute designer with one of his most versatile tools in
controlling opening shock and force profiles. Further, it is the only
device ever invented that benefits the entire speed range of the
parachute system with no detrimental side effects.=94It=92s worth
reading their web page about the BAT and you can make your own
decision.http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm The price difference
between the Lopo 550 and the H-X 500 was around $900.
>
> I was intrigued about the H-X series and a local aerobatics Pitts
pilot told me he would fly with nothing but that system due to the
higher opening speed and especially due to the BAT system, which opens
the chute quicker. The above ratings for the H-X are 170 KEAS, but
Butler states they have done much testing of their chutes and others and
their chutes have not failed well above 170 while other manufacturers
have. This got me thinking though about how fast you would be traveling
when you ejected from a plane. My thinking was that you would slow down
quickly and would be pulling your chute at a speed much lower than when
you ejected. I posed this question to Tom Fowler of Butler and he
responded=93You will slow to 150 knots from 200 knots in approximately
one second. With structural failure, the aircraft will accelerate to a
faster speed than red-line. This type of emergency is difficult to bail
out from and by the time you get out the aircraft is probably going to
be going hair-on-fire fast. It is rare, but it has happened and the
pilot successfully bailed out but the canopy failed because he was going
too fast.=94
>
>
> The best price I have found so far on the Strong is from the Parachute
Shop for
$2,050.http://www.parachuteshop.com/STRONG.htm#Model_306_Squadron_Seat
> Butler=92s direct price for the LoPo 550 was $2,210, and $135 for a 3=94
cushion. I haven=92t shopped that price yet.
> Butler states that it takes about 6 weeks to custom make the chute.
> Strong says 3-4 weeks if they don=92t have one in stock, or you
customize it (pockets, etc).
>
> I spoke with many CJ and Yak pilots. It seemed the majority (60%)
owned the Strong 306. Everyone liked the chute they owned, and no one
had anything bad to say about either one other then any chute will
become uncomfortable after a few hours. One Butler chute owner did state
that their cushion was really hard in the cold until their butt warmed
it up. Most said that adding a sheepskin pad, lumbar support, and a
pocket for ELT/Cell/etc is worth the extra money.
>
> I am a heavier guy, so I am considering the Butler for that reason,
but I think either chute would work. I was considering purchasing a
Strong 306 and seeing how I like it. Then when I was ready to buy my
second chute, either get the same one or move the 306 to the rear seat
and get a Butler. I may still do that, but I need to get moving for I
need to fly soon!
>
> Tom Fowler is a good person to talk to about the Butler. His email is
Tom.Fowler@ButlerParachutes.com
> John Makoski is the Sales Mgr for Strong. His email is
jmakoski@strongparachutes.com
>
> Good Luck. Let me know what you decide to do.
> Tom
>
> PS. I had sent Strong an email asking which harness (304 or 306) and
chute (26 or 29) they recommended for the CJ. John Makoski=92s reply was
=93For the Nanchang, we highly recommend the Model 306 Squadron seat
pack. This particular model replaces any existing cushion you may have
in the seat pan. The total thickness of the seat cushion plus the chute
you are sitting on is approximately 6". The differences of the 2
canopies you specified below are that the 26ft. canopy is rated at 254
lbs at 150 knts. The C-9 canopy is rated around 300 lbs at 150 knts.
The C-9 is a much more poris canopy which means it can withstand the
higher knts however you will be coming down much faster. We would
definitely recommend our 26 ft. midlite. This is the most common and
popular canopy for all of our warbird communities. =93
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Nicholson
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:08 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Strong Parachute Selection
>
<pednicholson@gmail.com>
>
> Gentlemen,
> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
> wonder if it would be as
> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Philip Nicholson
> (Ontario)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Strong Parachute Selection |
Excellent and through post !!
I have a question for TW owners. What chute are you using? I have
removed the small cushion on the back and use a backpack type parachute
(Para-phenalia Wedge Softie) I have foam in the seatpan and a cushion
on top of that and this combination is great for height and back
position. (5'9")
I had a seat pack chute in the Yak 55 (National 425)
I came to really like the seat chute more than the backpack, but I tried
the National in the TW and it did not fit the seatpan very well and was
too thin, I sat too low in the TW.
I am just curious what other people are using in the TW?
Herb
On Jan 9, 2011, at 7:27 PM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:
> Philip,
> I am going through the same process right now. I just bought a CJ-6A
and put many hours looking at chutes (I=92ve never had a chute before).
I narrowed it down to the Strong 306 or the Butler. Butler makes custom
chutes. They make the harness specific to the pilot (you send them
several different measurements) and they have a model that is made
specifically for the CJ seat pan.
>
> Other than one being customized for the pilot (Butler), the biggest
difference I have seen between the two are the Operation Limitations.
The Strong 306 is limited to 254lbs (115kg) and up to 150 knots IAS.
Butler's Custom Seat Pack (CJ-6A) has three chute options with different
Operating Limitations:
> 1. LoPo 350 is rated for 220lbs @ 150 knots.
> 2. LoPo 450 is rated for 285lbs @ 150 knots.
> 3. LoPo 550 is rated for 350lbs @ 150 knots.
>
> Strong 306 Operation Limitation (Section 1.3
http://www.strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/306manual2.pdf)
> Butler=92s LoPo Operation Limitations:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/LoPo%20Intro%20page.htm
>
> Butler also has their H-X series Canopies that utilizes their BAT
Sombrero Slider system that has been certificated for speeds over 150
knots. Their ratings are:
> 1. H-X 300 is rated for 175lbs @ 150 KEAS
> 2. H-X 400 is rated for 236lbs @ 170 KEAS
> 3. H-X 500 is rated for 306lbs @ 170 KEAS
> 4. H-X 600 is rated for 382lbs @ 170 KEAS
> Butler=92s H-X Operation Limitations:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm
> I am not going to try to explain what the BAT Sombrero Slider system
does, but from their web site =93We have demonstrated beyond any doubt
that the BAT Sombrero Slider=99 is the most effective device ever
invented for controlling the inflation process of conventional
parachutes. It completely eliminates inversion type malfunctions and
provides the parachute designer with one of his most versatile tools in
controlling opening shock and force profiles. Further, it is the only
device ever invented that benefits the entire speed range of the
parachute system with no detrimental side effects.=94 It=92s worth
reading their web page about the BAT and you can make your own
decision.http://www.butlerparachutes.com/pia99.htm The price difference
between the Lopo 550 and the H-X 500 was around $900.
>
> I was intrigued about the H-X series and a local aerobatics Pitts
pilot told me he would fly with nothing but that system due to the
higher opening speed and especially due to the BAT system, which opens
the chute quicker. The above ratings for the H-X are 170 KEAS, but
Butler states they have done much testing of their chutes and others and
their chutes have not failed well above 170 while other manufacturers
have. This got me thinking though about how fast you would be traveling
when you ejected from a plane. My thinking was that you would slow down
quickly and would be pulling your chute at a speed much lower than when
you ejected. I posed this question to Tom Fowler of Butler and he
responded =93You will slow to 150 knots from 200 knots in approximately
one second. With structural failure, the aircraft will accelerate to a
faster speed than red-line. This type of emergency is difficult to bail
out from and by the time you get out the aircraft is probably going to
be going hair-on-fire fast. It is rare, but it has happened and the
pilot successfully bailed out but the canopy failed because he was going
too fast.=94
>
>
> The best price I have found so far on the Strong is from the Parachute
Shop for
$2,050.http://www.parachuteshop.com/STRONG.htm#Model_306_Squadron_Seat
> Butler=92s direct price for the LoPo 550 was $2,210, and $135 for a 3=94
cushion. I haven=92t shopped that price yet.
> Butler states that it takes about 6 weeks to custom make the chute.
> Strong says 3-4 weeks if they don=92t have one in stock, or you
customize it (pockets, etc).
>
> I spoke with many CJ and Yak pilots. It seemed the majority (60%)
owned the Strong 306. Everyone liked the chute they owned, and no one
had anything bad to say about either one other then any chute will
become uncomfortable after a few hours. One Butler chute owner did state
that their cushion was really hard in the cold until their butt warmed
it up. Most said that adding a sheepskin pad, lumbar support, and a
pocket for ELT/Cell/etc is worth the extra money.
>
> I am a heavier guy, so I am considering the Butler for that reason,
but I think either chute would work. I was considering purchasing a
Strong 306 and seeing how I like it. Then when I was ready to buy my
second chute, either get the same one or move the 306 to the rear seat
and get a Butler. I may still do that, but I need to get moving for I
need to fly soon!
>
> Tom Fowler is a good person to talk to about the Butler. His email is
Tom.Fowler@ButlerParachutes.com
> John Makoski is the Sales Mgr for Strong. His email is
jmakoski@strongparachutes.com
>
> Good Luck. Let me know what you decide to do.
> Tom
>
> PS. I had sent Strong an email asking which harness (304 or 306) and
chute (26 or 29) they recommended for the CJ. John Makoski=92s reply was
=93For the Nanchang, we highly recommend the Model 306 Squadron seat
pack. This particular model replaces any existing cushion you may have
in the seat pan. The total thickness of the seat cushion plus the chute
you are sitting on is approximately 6". The differences of the 2
canopies you specified below are that the 26ft. canopy is rated at 254
lbs at 150 knts. The C-9 canopy is rated around 300 lbs at 150 knts.
The C-9 is a much more poris canopy which means it can withstand the
higher knts however you will be coming down much faster. We would
definitely recommend our 26 ft. midlite. This is the most common and
popular canopy for all of our warbird communities. =93
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Nicholson
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:08 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Strong Parachute Selection
>
<pednicholson@gmail.com>
>
> Gentlemen,
> I have been shopping for parachutes for my new (used) CJ6A.
> Would you recommend a STRONG 304 or 306. The 304 looks shorter so I
> wonder if it would be as
> comfortable but am worried about the thickness of the 306. I am 6'1"
> and don't want to be bumping me head off the canopy.
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Philip Nicholson
> (Ontario)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dr. Herb Coussons, MD
drc@wscare.com
2641 Development Drive
Green Bay, WI 54311
Cell 920-639-8434
Work 920-338-6868
Fax 920-338-6869
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