Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:55 AM - Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition (Gill Gutierrez)
2. 03:11 PM - Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
3. 03:48 PM - Sorry for that Snow (Cpayne)
4. 04:01 PM - Re: Sorry for that Snow (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 04:02 PM - Re: Sorry for that Snow (Eric Wobschall)
6. 04:37 PM - Re: Sorry for that Snow (andrew richards)
7. 06:02 PM - Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition (Richard.Goode)
8. 06:41 PM - Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 10:56 PM - Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | yak 50 with electronic ignition |
Great job, thanks
Gill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
George,
We (actually Jan) are not using a multiple coil array, but instead a
single (external) coil. The coil is fired by an MSD system, as
described to the list in a previous posting. The design would indeed
benefit from either a Hall Effect sensor, or some other form of "points"
replacement, but it was decided not to do this at first, but to instead
just go with a proof of concept test.
The plus side of this approach is that the Russian Mag (right side,
lower plugs) is left relatively intact. Jan has designed a replacement
for the original cigarette shaft, and just the coil has been removed.
Thus, this design remains as a truly "field installable" package.
Sounds like I am selling this thing, but actually not.
In any case, the only thing that the points do now is to provide a
trigger for the electronics package. The advantage of keeping the
points is that you can still do some sort of "relative" timing to the
other mag using points closure as your comparison. The points will
never erode or pit, since there is no high current demand on them
anymore. However, mechanical failure is of course still possible, and
the accuracy of point triggers are obviously not nearly as accurate as
magnetic or hall effect sensors.
The beauty of this design George, is that it is cheap, it is easily
available right now and the only 12 volt signal needed is a low current
turn on voltage. The rest of the whole design is being run directly off
of 28 VDC, so no conversion of the original design of the electrical
system is necessary. The electronic ignition is currently being run off
a B&C small alternator, with the aircraft battery as backup, and as
backup to that, there is of course the original left mag.
The design has provisions to add retarded timing for starting. When
that is added, the engine can be started on either the original system,
or the electronic system on the right mag. Thus you now have backup
starting ignition as well.
Your package sounds much more modern and obviously has great potential.
The design I came up with here, is very cheap, and should be extremely
reliable, and already has obvious gains at idle and with starting.
I still can't believe that Jan trusted me enough to put this design into
an M-14R engine. However, that engine also has a lot to gain from a
Multiple Spark Capacitive Discharge ignition system. In any case, Jan
really did it right and did not spare a nickel to do a really
professional installation. I believe he is taking pictures to document
everything.
The timing on this design is also variable should that be necessary, but
not nearly as complete as what you are discussing. Obviously, it would
be wonderful to have a complete package such as you are describing, but
for right now... this has some interesting potential, especially
considering price.
Lastly, in case anyone is thinking otherwise, this is not the Mark
Bitterlich ignition system, available with only a slight markup from my
new company. (Big Smile). As I said before, I am giving this design
away to anyone who needs it. Jan Mevis was generous enough to offer
flight testing on a VERY rare, expensive, and (almost) one of a kind
engine, and for this we should all be very grateful.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:39 PM
Subject: FW: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago
and are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the
test stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We
gave it to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We
finally got it back.
It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a
regular mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a
Toyota magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module
and a Toyota coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses
the regular rotor and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto
that is a drop in replacement for the M9 magneto.
It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could
benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off
list and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points.
We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple
coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and
the software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to
fit in the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows
different timing depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature,
fuel octane, manifold pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic
fuel injection system.
George Coy
Motorstar NA
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
SKYPE george.coy
motorstarna.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM
Subject: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi all,
Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic
ignition system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).
The idea and concept belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me
thru a lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!
I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag
with a multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points
and also the distributor from the mag are left in place.
First results are very promising. There's a noticeable difference in RPM
between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the
electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold
engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of
very hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.
Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the
reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and
now finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.
Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but
for safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing
this and leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible
when installing an independent backup alternator system.
Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system
would probably be very marginal.
It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug
wiring kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a >
45000 volt system on the Russian solid core plug wires.
One of the main goals was to find out if there's a workable alternative
for the mag coils. This has been proven.
BR,
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
YK52 RA1453K
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
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| Subject: | yak 50 with electronic ignition |
Bill,
I think George Coy indeed has something like that in mind. And indeed there are
several fuel injection projects underway as well, including one in Russia (see
Richard Goode for info). None of them are closed loop that I am aware of.
One of the key requirements for a closed loop system is a valid oxygen sensor,
as you probably know. This is hard to accomplish considering our exhaust arrangement.
However, an ECU open loop design is still very viable and would make
a great project.
I concur that what you are suggesting is a wonderful way to go and is starting
to be realized on experimental (and a few certificated) engines, the most exotic
of which are being used at Reno and especially in the Red Bull series. With
Red Bull funding the whole thing.... which they just put an end to. :-)
Seriously, anything can be done... it just takes cash. Lots of it.
The big difference between what you are talking about, and what Jan and I are talking
about can be summarized with one (plural) symbol: $$$$$
A very safe and very powerful ignition system, that costs a few hundred dollars
and can be installed by any A&P in about a day or so is what we are talking about
here. Not to be confused with a complete engine and ignition redesign.
It also will not fail like the current coils do in the Russian mags, and offers
a real improvement overall, especially to guys running M-14's in aerobatic contests,
where a failed mag in flight can impact their routine. This same project
can easily be done with a CJ-6 as well using the Housai engine and mags.
I'm just extremely happy with the success we have had so far. Realize that I
am not an M-14 expert, nor someone with the extensive background and knowledge
such as a person like George Coy represents. I'm just an old race car builder/driver,
with a pretty good knowledge of electronics, specializing in RF and
not ignition systems. However, one day I just put 2 and 2 together and came up
with a simple idea. I ran it up the flagpole with MSD design engineers and they
concurred it should work. Jan Mevis understood the premise and took on the
job of installing and testing it... at his own expense, risking a very valuable
engine in the process by the way. We collaborated in the overall design and
went through a lot of teeth gnashing along the way to come up with a SAFE system,
and not just one that "works".
So far, no one on this list (except for one French fellow :-) have expressed much
of an interest, but that's ok. This project is just an extension of Dennis's
original idea using high quality racing plugs and wires on the M-14. Took
awhile, but eventually people realized how much improvement they would get and
how cheap it was for the quality gained. The same thing will happen here...
it'll just take awhile. I expect the really serious aerobatic guys will go with
it at first, as soon as they are dead sure it is fully reliable, which is
the test that comes next.
Sadly, no one I know is really rushing into the mix for a system like you are describing.
Sure wish they were.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hay guys and gals lets kick it up a notch. Due you think we could leave the carburetor
on an M14 just turn the fuel off to it and use it as a backup and a place
to mount the throttle position unit until were comfy with EFI take a bunch
of lower intake tubes and put electronic fuel injectors in them and coil over
plug ignition with a programmable electronic control unit? SAWEEEET
Bill Wade
Programmable ECUs
A special category of ECUs are those which are programmable. These units do not
have a fixed behavior, but can be reprogrammed by the user.
Programmable ECUs are required where significant aftermarket modifications have been made to a vehicle's engine. Examples include adding or changing of a turbocharger <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger> , adding or changing of an intercooler <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Intercooler> , changing of the exhaust system <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Exhaust_system> , and conversion to run on alternative fuel <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Alternative_fuel> . As a consequence of these changes, the old ECU may not provide appropriate control for the new configuration. In these situations, a programmable ECU can be wired in. These can be programmed/mapped with a laptop <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Laptop> connected using a serial or USB <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/USB> cable, while the engine is running.
The programmable ECU may control the amount of fuel to be injected <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Fuel_injection> into each cylinder. This varies depending on the engine's RPM and the position of the accelerator pedal (or the manifold air pressure <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/MAP_sensor> ). The engine tuner can adjust this by bringing up a spreadsheet <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Spreadsheet> -like page on the laptop where each cell represents an intersection between a specific RPM value and an accelerator pedal position (or the throttle position <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Throttle_position_sensor> , as it is called). In this cell a number corresponding to the amount of fuel to be injected is entered. This spreadsheet is often referred to as a fuel table or fuel map <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Map_(higher-order_function)> .
By modifying these values while monitoring the exhausts using a wide band lambda probe <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Lambda_probe> to see if the engine runs rich or lean, the tuner can find the optimal amount of fuel to inject to the engine at every different combination of RPM and throttle position. This process is often carried out at a dynamometer <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Dynamometer> , giving the tuner a controlled environment to work in. An engine dynamometer gives a more precise calibration for racing applications. Tuners often utilize a chassis dynamometer for street and other high performance applications.
Other parameters that are often mappable are:
* Ignition: Defines when the spark plug <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Spark_plug> should fire for a cylinder.
* Rev. limit: Defines the maximum RPM <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Revolutions_per_minute> that the engine is allowed to reach. After this fuel and/or ignition is cut. Some vehicles have a "soft" cut-off before the "hard" cut-off.
* Water temperature correction: Allows for additional fuel to be added when the
engine is cold (choke) or dangerously hot.
* Transient fueling: Tells the ECU to add a specific amount of fuel when throttle <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Throttle> is applied. The term is "acceleration enrichment"
* Low fuel pressure modifier: Tells the ECU to increase the injector fire time
to compensate for a loss of fuel pressure.
* Closed loop lambda: Lets the ECU monitor a permanently installed lambda probe <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Oxygen_sensor> and modify the fueling to achieve stoichiometric <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Stoichiometric> (ideal) combustion. On traditional petrol powered vehicles this air:fuel ratio is 14.7:1.
Some of the more advanced race ECUs include functionality such as launch control <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Launch_control_(automotive)> , limiting the power of the engine in first gear to avoid burnouts. Other examples of advanced functions are:
* Wastegate control: Sets up the behavior of a turbocharger <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger> 's wastegate <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Wastegate> , controlling boost <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger#Pressure_increase> .
* Banked injection: Sets up the behavior of double injectors per cylinder, used
to get a finer fuel injection control and atomization over a wide RPM range.
* Variable cam timing <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Variable_cam_timing> : Tells the ECU how to control variable intake and exhaust cams.
* Gear control: Tells the ECU to cut ignition during (sequential gearbox <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission> ) upshifts or blip the throttle during downshifts.
A race ECU is often equipped with a data logger recording all sensors for later analysis using special software in a PC. This can be useful to track down engine stalls, misfires or other undesired behaviors during a race by downloading the log data and looking for anomalies after the event. The data logger usually has a capacity between 0.5 and 16 megabytes <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Megabytes> .
In order to communicate with the driver, a race ECU can often be connected to a "data stack", which is a simple dash board presenting the driver with the current RPM, speed and other basic engine data. These race stacks, which are almost always digital, talk to the ECU using one of several proprietary protocols running over RS232 <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/RS232> or CANbus <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/CANbus> , connecting to the DLC connector (Data Link Connector) usually located on the underside of the dash, inline with the steering wheel
________________________________
From: Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 4:51:49 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi George, Hi Jan,
BRAVO and congratulation Jan and thanks to you and Mark. This sounds really promissing
and I must say that with all that mind power I am not any more worried
about the future of our planes and motors.
Reading your mail Mark it is a pitty that nobody wanted to test your mag. I would
love to test it on my M14P with certainly the help of Jan (Jan???) to set
it up.
Do you think it could be of any use???
If yes then I would be very enthousiastic about that testing...
best regards from Paris - France (1h from NAMUR!!!)
Didier
2011/1/11 George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and are
waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test stand.
They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it to an individual
for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got it back.
It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular mag,
had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota magnetic
pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota coil is installed
in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor and cap. The
result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in replacement for the
M9 magneto.
It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could benefit
from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list and I can supply
the parts to replace the cam and points.
We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple coils
and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the software
is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in the available
time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing depending on multiple
variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold pressure etc.). It
is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system.
George Coy
Motorstar NA
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
SKYPE george.coy
motorstarna.com <http://motorstarna.com/>
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi all,
Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition system
on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).
The idea and concept belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a lot
of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!
I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a multiple
spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also the distributor
from the mag are left in place.
First results are very promising. Theres a noticeable difference in RPM between
the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the electronics on the
right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold engine, the difference
is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very hot sparks per cylinder.
That is, multiple sparks per time.
Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the reliability
of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now finally a
first test flight, I am rather confident.
Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for safety
reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and leaving
the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when installing an
independent backup alternator system.
Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would probably
be very marginal.
It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring kit
from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a > 45000 volt system
on the Russian solid core plug wires.
One of the main goals was to find out if theres a workable alternative for the
mag coils. This has been proven.
BR,
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
YK52 RA1453K
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard@gmail.com
0624243672
http://www.matronics.com/contributio=============
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sorry for that Snow |
49 states got snow today. I feel your cold from here in one state that didn't get
that Blessing from the Sky. I may have to shovel 12 inches of sunshine away
from the hanger door tomorrow but that's OK, I'm a tough guy :)
Remember: Preheat and carb heat.
Craig Payne
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry for that Snow |
Yea, Clear skies here in NORTH Florida. Real cold tonight but sunshine to
morrow! Yep as my great grand daddy use to say "If God had wanted man to
live in the cold, He'd put more hair on him come'n out da swamp."
Pappy
-----Original Message-----
From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 6:45 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Sorry for that Snow
49 states got snow today. I feel your cold from here in one state that did
n't
et that Blessing from the Sky. I may have to shovel 12 inches of sunshine
away
rom the hanger door tomorrow but that's OK, I'm a tough guy :)
Remember: Preheat and carb heat.
Craig Payne
========================
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry for that Snow |
Get your dress off and shovel.
Just kidding, Craig.
Eric from BUffalo.
On Jan 12, 2011, at 6:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>
> 49 states got snow today. I feel your cold from here in one state that didn't
get that Blessing from the Sky. I may have to shovel 12 inches of sunshine away
from the hanger door tomorrow but that's OK, I'm a tough guy :)
>
> Remember: Preheat and carb heat.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry for that Snow |
Overcast, 88 US degrees down this way. Rain, 55M on the way... Only
seen snow once in my life, you guys can keep it.
On 1/13/11, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Yea, Clear skies here in NORTH Florida. Real cold tonight but sunshine
> tomorrow! Yep as my great grand daddy use to say "If God had wanted man to
> live in the cold, He'd put more hair on him come'n out da swamp."
>
> Pappy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
> To: yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 6:45 pm
> Subject: Yak-List: Sorry for that Snow
>
>
> 49 states got snow today. I feel your cold from here in one state that
> didn't
> et that Blessing from the Sky. I may have to shovel 12 inches of sunshine
> away
> rom the hanger door tomorrow but that's OK, I'm a tough guy :)
> Remember: Preheat and carb heat.
> Craig Payne
> ===================================
> -= - The Yak-List Email Forum -
> -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
> -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
> -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> -= Photoshare, and much much more:
> -
> -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> -
> -===========================================================
> -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
> -
> -= --> http://forums.matronics.com
> -
> -===========================================================
> -= - List Contribution Web Site -
> -= Thank you for your generous support!
> -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -===========================================================
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition |
The problem for Europeans is certification.Jan Mevis is flying his 50 on the
old Russian registration,which gives a lot of freedom,but some countries
like the UK and Italy will not allow it,and we have no "experimental"
category within which one can try such things.
Sure you can apply for a formal modifiction,and then you have to do the same
test procedure as Lycoming has to for a certificated engine.
You guys in the US do not know how fortunate you are [in this one area at
least!!!].
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 4:38 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bill,
I think George Coy indeed has something like that in mind. And indeed there
are several fuel injection projects underway as well, including one in
Russia (see Richard Goode for info). None of them are closed loop that I am
aware of. One of the key requirements for a closed loop system is a valid
oxygen sensor, as you probably know. This is hard to accomplish considering
our exhaust arrangement. However, an ECU open loop design is still very
viable and would make a great project.
I concur that what you are suggesting is a wonderful way to go and is
starting to be realized on experimental (and a few certificated) engines,
the most exotic of which are being used at Reno and especially in the Red
Bull series. With Red Bull funding the whole thing.... which they just put
an end to. :-)
Seriously, anything can be done... it just takes cash. Lots of it.
The big difference between what you are talking about, and what Jan and I
are talking about can be summarized with one (plural) symbol: $$$$$
A very safe and very powerful ignition system, that costs a few hundred
dollars and can be installed by any A&P in about a day or so is what we are
talking about here. Not to be confused with a complete engine and ignition
redesign. It also will not fail like the current coils do in the Russian
mags, and offers a real improvement overall, especially to guys running
M-14's in aerobatic contests, where a failed mag in flight can impact their
routine. This same project can easily be done with a CJ-6 as well using the
Housai engine and mags.
I'm just extremely happy with the success we have had so far. Realize that
I am not an M-14 expert, nor someone with the extensive background and
knowledge such as a person like George Coy represents. I'm just an old race
car builder/driver, with a pretty good knowledge of electronics,
specializing in RF and not ignition systems. However, one day I just put 2
and 2 together and came up with a simple idea. I ran it up the flagpole with
MSD design engineers and they concurred it should work. Jan Mevis
understood the premise and took on the job of installing and testing it...
at his own expense, risking a very valuable engine in the process by the
way. We collaborated in the overall design and went through a lot of teeth
gnashing along the way to come up with a SAFE system, and not just one that
"works".
So far, no one on this list (except for one French fellow :-) have
expressed much of an interest, but that's ok. This project is just an
extension of Dennis's original idea using high quality racing plugs and
wires on the M-14. Took awhile, but eventually people realized how much
improvement they would get and how cheap it was for the quality gained. The
same thing will happen here... it'll just take awhile. I expect the really
serious aerobatic guys will go with it at first, as soon as they are dead
sure it is fully reliable, which is the test that comes next.
Sadly, no one I know is really rushing into the mix for a system like you
are describing. Sure wish they were.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hay guys and gals lets kick it up a notch. Due you think we could leave the
carburetor on an M14 just turn the fuel off to it and use it as a backup and
a place to mount the throttle position unit until were comfy with EFI take a
bunch of lower intake tubes and put electronic fuel injectors in them and
coil over plug ignition with a programmable electronic control unit?
SAWEEEET
Bill Wade
Programmable ECUs
A special category of ECUs are those which are programmable. These units do
not have a fixed behavior, but can be reprogrammed by the user.
Programmable ECUs are required where significant aftermarket modifications
have been made to a vehicle's engine. Examples include adding or changing of
a turbocharger <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger> , adding or
changing of an intercooler <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Intercooler> ,
changing of the exhaust system
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Exhaust_system> , and conversion to run
on alternative fuel <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Alternative_fuel> .
As a consequence of these changes, the old ECU may not provide appropriate
control for the new configuration. In these situations, a programmable ECU
can be wired in. These can be programmed/mapped with a laptop
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Laptop> connected using a serial or USB
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/USB> cable, while the engine is running.
The programmable ECU may control the amount of fuel to be injected
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Fuel_injection> into each cylinder. This
varies depending on the engine's RPM and the position of the accelerator
pedal (or the manifold air pressure
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/MAP_sensor> ). The engine tuner can
adjust this by bringing up a spreadsheet
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Spreadsheet> -like page on the laptop
where each cell represents an intersection between a specific RPM value and
an accelerator pedal position (or the throttle position
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Throttle_position_sensor> , as it is
called). In this cell a number corresponding to the amount of fuel to be
injected is entered. This spreadsheet is often referred to as a fuel table
or fuel map <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Map_(higher-order_function)>
.
By modifying these values while monitoring the exhausts using a wide band
lambda probe <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Lambda_probe> to see if the
engine runs rich or lean, the tuner can find the optimal amount of fuel to
inject to the engine at every different combination of RPM and throttle
position. This process is often carried out at a dynamometer
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Dynamometer> , giving the tuner a
controlled environment to work in. An engine dynamometer gives a more
precise calibration for racing applications. Tuners often utilize a chassis
dynamometer for street and other high performance applications.
Other parameters that are often mappable are:
* Ignition: Defines when the spark plug
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Spark_plug> should fire for a cylinder.
* Rev. limit: Defines the maximum RPM
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Revolutions_per_minute> that the engine
is allowed to reach. After this fuel and/or ignition is cut. Some vehicles
have a "soft" cut-off before the "hard" cut-off.
* Water temperature correction: Allows for additional fuel to be added when
the engine is cold (choke) or dangerously hot.
* Transient fueling: Tells the ECU to add a specific amount of fuel when
throttle <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Throttle> is applied. The term
is "acceleration enrichment"
* Low fuel pressure modifier: Tells the ECU to increase the injector fire
time to compensate for a loss of fuel pressure.
* Closed loop lambda: Lets the ECU monitor a permanently installed lambda
probe <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Oxygen_sensor> and modify the
fueling to achieve stoichiometric
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Stoichiometric> (ideal) combustion. On
traditional petrol powered vehicles this air:fuel ratio is 14.7:1.
Some of the more advanced race ECUs include functionality such as launch
control <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Launch_control_(automotive)> ,
limiting the power of the engine in first gear to avoid burnouts. Other
examples of advanced functions are:
* Wastegate control: Sets up the behavior of a turbocharger
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger> 's wastegate
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Wastegate> , controlling boost
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger#Pressure_increase> .
* Banked injection: Sets up the behavior of double injectors per cylinder,
used to get a finer fuel injection control and atomization over a wide RPM
range.
* Variable cam timing
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Variable_cam_timing> : Tells the ECU how
to control variable intake and exhaust cams.
* Gear control: Tells the ECU to cut ignition during (sequential gearbox
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission> ) upshifts
or blip the throttle during downshifts.
A race ECU is often equipped with a data logger recording all sensors for
later analysis using special software in a PC. This can be useful to track
down engine stalls, misfires or other undesired behaviors during a race by
downloading the log data and looking for anomalies after the event. The data
logger usually has a capacity between 0.5 and 16 megabytes
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Megabytes> .
In order to communicate with the driver, a race ECU can often be connected
to a "data stack", which is a simple dash board presenting the driver with
the current RPM, speed and other basic engine data. These race stacks, which
are almost always digital, talk to the ECU using one of several proprietary
protocols running over RS232 <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/RS232> or
CANbus <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/CANbus> , connecting to the DLC
connector (Data Link Connector) usually located on the underside of the
dash, inline with the steering wheel
________________________________
From: Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 4:51:49 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi George, Hi Jan,
BRAVO and congratulation Jan and thanks to you and Mark. This sounds really
promissing and I must say that with all that mind power I am not any more
worried about the future of our planes and motors.
Reading your mail Mark it is a pitty that nobody wanted to test your mag. I
would love to test it on my M14P with certainly the help of Jan (Jan???) to
set it up.
Do you think it could be of any use???
If yes then I would be very enthousiastic about that testing...
best regards from Paris - France (1h from NAMUR!!!)
Didier
2011/1/11 George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and
are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test
stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it
to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got
it back.
It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular
mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota
magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota
coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor
and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in
replacement for the M9 magneto.
It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could
benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list
and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points.
We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple
coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the
software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in
the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing
depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold
pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system.
George Coy
Motorstar NA
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
SKYPE george.coy
motorstarna.com <http://motorstarna.com/>
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM
Subject: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi all,
Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition
system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).
The idea and concept belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a
lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!
I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a
multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also
the distributor from the mag are left in place.
First results are very promising. Theres a noticeable difference in RPM
between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the
electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold
engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very
hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.
Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the
reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now
finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.
Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for
safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and
leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when
installing an independent backup alternator system.
Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would
probably be very marginal.
It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring
kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a > 45000 volt
system on the Russian solid core plug wires.
One of the main goals was to find out if theres a workable alternative for
the mag coils. This has been proven.
BR,
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
YK52 RA1453K
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard@gmail.com
0624243672
http://www.matronics.com/contributio============
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|
| Subject: | Re: yak 50 with electronic ignition |
Richard,
We do appreciate that fact.just hope some Ill intending FAA Gestapo type does not
pass a regulation to riun it.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 12, 2011, at 8:04 PM, "Richard.Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
>
> The problem for Europeans is certification.Jan Mevis is flying his 50 on the
old Russian registration,which gives a lot of freedom,but some countries like
the UK and Italy will not allow it,and we have no "experimental" category within
which one can try such things.
> Sure you can apply for a formal modifiction,and then you have to do the same
test procedure as Lycoming has to for a certificated engine.
> You guys in the US do not know how fortunate you are [in this one area at least!!!].
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94
779 132 160.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 4:38 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I think George Coy indeed has something like that in mind. And indeed there
are several fuel injection projects underway as well, including one in Russia
(see Richard Goode for info). None of them are closed loop that I am
Message 9
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| Subject: | yak 50 with electronic ignition |
Hello Richard,
I took care to talk about this with the Russian inspector before installing, and
I got his permission to test. They saw NO objection, since I did not change
anything that could jeopardize the airworthiness of the plane. If the electronics
quit, I still have the left mag to land asap. Of course the electronics depend
upon the electrical installation of the aircraft. In the case of the 50,
this system is not heavily loaded. But if necessary, today there are backup alternator
systems that could be employed.
Our main goal (Mark and I) was to prove the feasibility.
Indeed we do not have much freedom in Europe anymore. The results of this over-regulation
(European Community, legions of administration and regulations guys
and girls) are catastrophic. New ideas and concepts (and not only in aviation)
are stopped even before they are tried out. Try to imagine if there would be
any aviation at all, if the Wright brothers and the other pioneers would have
been hindered the way we are today?
Indeed, the people in the USA are fortunate, compared to us. Our own fault (Europe)
because progress and advance does not originate from Europe anymore. Or very
often, a good idea from here has to be developped elsewhere ...
Maybe indeed I will get reprimanded now for having tried out an idea without the
tons of paperwork (and months of negotiation) that normally are imperative.
But "I'll chew it thru".
All the best,
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard.Goode
Sent: donderdag 13 januari 2011 3:04
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
The problem for Europeans is certification.Jan Mevis is flying his 50 on the
old Russian registration,which gives a lot of freedom,but some countries
like the UK and Italy will not allow it,and we have no "experimental"
category within which one can try such things.
Sure you can apply for a formal modifiction,and then you have to do the same
test procedure as Lycoming has to for a certificated engine.
You guys in the US do not know how fortunate you are [in this one area at
least!!!].
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 4:38 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bill,
I think George Coy indeed has something like that in mind. And indeed there
are several fuel injection projects underway as well, including one in
Russia (see Richard Goode for info). None of them are closed loop that I am
aware of. One of the key requirements for a closed loop system is a valid
oxygen sensor, as you probably know. This is hard to accomplish considering
our exhaust arrangement. However, an ECU open loop design is still very
viable and would make a great project.
I concur that what you are suggesting is a wonderful way to go and is
starting to be realized on experimental (and a few certificated) engines,
the most exotic of which are being used at Reno and especially in the Red
Bull series. With Red Bull funding the whole thing.... which they just put
an end to. :-)
Seriously, anything can be done... it just takes cash. Lots of it.
The big difference between what you are talking about, and what Jan and I
are talking about can be summarized with one (plural) symbol: $$$$$
A very safe and very powerful ignition system, that costs a few hundred
dollars and can be installed by any A&P in about a day or so is what we are
talking about here. Not to be confused with a complete engine and ignition
redesign. It also will not fail like the current coils do in the Russian
mags, and offers a real improvement overall, especially to guys running
M-14's in aerobatic contests, where a failed mag in flight can impact their
routine. This same project can easily be done with a CJ-6 as well using the
Housai engine and mags.
I'm just extremely happy with the success we have had so far. Realize that
I am not an M-14 expert, nor someone with the extensive background and
knowledge such as a person like George Coy represents. I'm just an old race
car builder/driver, with a pretty good knowledge of electronics,
specializing in RF and not ignition systems. However, one day I just put 2
and 2 together and came up with a simple idea. I ran it up the flagpole with
MSD design engineers and they concurred it should work. Jan Mevis
understood the premise and took on the job of installing and testing it...
at his own expense, risking a very valuable engine in the process by the
way. We collaborated in the overall design and went through a lot of teeth
gnashing along the way to come up with a SAFE system, and not just one that
"works".
So far, no one on this list (except for one French fellow :-) have
expressed much of an interest, but that's ok. This project is just an
extension of Dennis's original idea using high quality racing plugs and
wires on the M-14. Took awhile, but eventually people realized how much
improvement they would get and how cheap it was for the quality gained. The
same thing will happen here... it'll just take awhile. I expect the really
serious aerobatic guys will go with it at first, as soon as they are dead
sure it is fully reliable, which is the test that comes next.
Sadly, no one I know is really rushing into the mix for a system like you
are describing. Sure wish they were.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hay guys and gals lets kick it up a notch. Due you think we could leave the
carburetor on an M14 just turn the fuel off to it and use it as a backup and
a place to mount the throttle position unit until were comfy with EFI take a
bunch of lower intake tubes and put electronic fuel injectors in them and
coil over plug ignition with a programmable electronic control unit?
SAWEEEET
Bill Wade
Programmable ECUs
A special category of ECUs are those which are programmable. These units do
not have a fixed behavior, but can be reprogrammed by the user.
Programmable ECUs are required where significant aftermarket modifications
have been made to a vehicle's engine. Examples include adding or changing of
a turbocharger <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger> , adding or
changing of an intercooler <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Intercooler> ,
changing of the exhaust system
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Exhaust_system> , and conversion to run
on alternative fuel <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Alternative_fuel> .
As a consequence of these changes, the old ECU may not provide appropriate
control for the new configuration. In these situations, a programmable ECU
can be wired in. These can be programmed/mapped with a laptop
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Laptop> connected using a serial or USB
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/USB> cable, while the engine is running.
The programmable ECU may control the amount of fuel to be injected
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Fuel_injection> into each cylinder. This
varies depending on the engine's RPM and the position of the accelerator
pedal (or the manifold air pressure
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/MAP_sensor> ). The engine tuner can
adjust this by bringing up a spreadsheet
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Spreadsheet> -like page on the laptop
where each cell represents an intersection between a specific RPM value and
an accelerator pedal position (or the throttle position
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Throttle_position_sensor> , as it is
called). In this cell a number corresponding to the amount of fuel to be
injected is entered. This spreadsheet is often referred to as a fuel table
or fuel map <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Map_(higher-order_function)>
.
By modifying these values while monitoring the exhausts using a wide band
lambda probe <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Lambda_probe> to see if the
engine runs rich or lean, the tuner can find the optimal amount of fuel to
inject to the engine at every different combination of RPM and throttle
position. This process is often carried out at a dynamometer
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Dynamometer> , giving the tuner a
controlled environment to work in. An engine dynamometer gives a more
precise calibration for racing applications. Tuners often utilize a chassis
dynamometer for street and other high performance applications.
Other parameters that are often mappable are:
* Ignition: Defines when the spark plug
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Spark_plug> should fire for a cylinder.
* Rev. limit: Defines the maximum RPM
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Revolutions_per_minute> that the engine
is allowed to reach. After this fuel and/or ignition is cut. Some vehicles
have a "soft" cut-off before the "hard" cut-off.
* Water temperature correction: Allows for additional fuel to be added when
the engine is cold (choke) or dangerously hot.
* Transient fueling: Tells the ECU to add a specific amount of fuel when
throttle <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Throttle> is applied. The term
is "acceleration enrichment"
* Low fuel pressure modifier: Tells the ECU to increase the injector fire
time to compensate for a loss of fuel pressure.
* Closed loop lambda: Lets the ECU monitor a permanently installed lambda
probe <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Oxygen_sensor> and modify the
fueling to achieve stoichiometric
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Stoichiometric> (ideal) combustion. On
traditional petrol powered vehicles this air:fuel ratio is 14.7:1.
Some of the more advanced race ECUs include functionality such as launch
control <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Launch_control_(automotive)> ,
limiting the power of the engine in first gear to avoid burnouts. Other
examples of advanced functions are:
* Wastegate control: Sets up the behavior of a turbocharger
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger> 's wastegate
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Wastegate> , controlling boost
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Turbocharger#Pressure_increase> .
* Banked injection: Sets up the behavior of double injectors per cylinder,
used to get a finer fuel injection control and atomization over a wide RPM
range.
* Variable cam timing
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Variable_cam_timing> : Tells the ECU how
to control variable intake and exhaust cams.
* Gear control: Tells the ECU to cut ignition during (sequential gearbox
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission> ) upshifts
or blip the throttle during downshifts.
A race ECU is often equipped with a data logger recording all sensors for
later analysis using special software in a PC. This can be useful to track
down engine stalls, misfires or other undesired behaviors during a race by
downloading the log data and looking for anomalies after the event. The data
logger usually has a capacity between 0.5 and 16 megabytes
<http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/Megabytes> .
In order to communicate with the driver, a race ECU can often be connected
to a "data stack", which is a simple dash board presenting the driver with
the current RPM, speed and other basic engine data. These race stacks, which
are almost always digital, talk to the ECU using one of several proprietary
protocols running over RS232 <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/RS232> or
CANbus <http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/wiki/CANbus> , connecting to the DLC
connector (Data Link Connector) usually located on the underside of the
dash, inline with the steering wheel
________________________________
From: Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 4:51:49 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi George, Hi Jan,
BRAVO and congratulation Jan and thanks to you and Mark. This sounds really
promissing and I must say that with all that mind power I am not any more
worried about the future of our planes and motors.
Reading your mail Mark it is a pitty that nobody wanted to test your mag. I
would love to test it on my M14P with certainly the help of Jan (Jan???) to
set it up.
Do you think it could be of any use???
If yes then I would be very enthousiastic about that testing...
best regards from Paris - France (1h from NAMUR!!!)
Didier
2011/1/11 George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
It sounds interesting. We developed an electronic mag several years ago and
are waiting for someone to do the test flying. It worked well on the test
stand. They claimed easier starts, much more stable operations. We gave it
to an individual for flight test and they never installed it. We finally got
it back.
It is basically the same thing as you describe. We took a regular
mag, had a reluctor wheel machined to replace the cam and used a Toyota
magnetic pick up. It then uses the standard GM ignition module and a Toyota
coil is installed in the base of the magneto case. It uses the regular rotor
and cap. The result is a 12 volt electronic magneto that is a drop in
replacement for the M9 magneto.
It sounds like you have a multiple coil system and it could
benefit from the reluctor wheel and magnetic pick up. Contact me off list
and I can supply the parts to replace the cam and points.
We are also developing a true electronic system with multiple
coils and a micro processor to do the timing. The hardware is done and the
software is now being tested. It has been a slow process and has to fit in
the available time. It has the advantage in that it allows different timing
depending on multiple variables. (RPM, temperature, fuel octane, manifold
pressure etc.). It is also a step to an electronic fuel injection system.
George Coy
Motorstar NA
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy@gmail.com
SKYPE george.coy
motorstarna.com <http://motorstarna.com/>
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:55 AM
Subject: Yak-List: yak 50 with electronic ignition
Hi all,
Yesterday I did a first succesful test flight with an electronic ignition
system on my Yak 50 (with M14R engine, 29 hours since new).
The idea and concept belongs to Mark Bitterlich, who also helped me thru a
lot of technical details. Thanks, Mark! I am indebted to you!
I have replace the coil and the high tension lead from the right mag with a
multiple spark, capacitive discharge system. The original points and also
the distributor from the mag are left in place.
First results are very promising. Theres a noticeable difference in RPM
between the left mag (unmodified, only 20 hours since new) and the
electronics on the right. Particularly at low RPM and with a still cold
engine, the difference is obvious: the electronics delivers a series of very
hot sparks per cylinder. That is, multiple sparks per time.
Of course much more test results are necessary in order to prove the
reliability of the system, but after several ground runs since weeks and now
finally a first test flight, I am rather confident.
Originally I also thought about replacing the coil on the left mag, but for
safety reasons (general power failure) Mark and I decided not doing this and
leaving the left mag unaltered. Although it should be possible when
installing an independent backup alternator system.
Furthermore the extra performance gain with a second electronic system would
probably be very marginal.
It is also obvious that this electronic system necessitated the plug wiring
kit from Dennis Savarese. It is out of the question using a > 45000 volt
system on the Russian solid core plug wires.
One of the main goals was to find out if theres a workable alternative for
the mag coils. This has been proven.
BR,
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
YK52 RA1453K
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard@gmail.com
0624243672
http://www.matronics.com/contributio============
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