Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Cliff Coy)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Eric Wobschall)
3. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Mark Davis)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Roger Kemp M.D.)
5. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Mark Davis)
6. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Walter Lannon)
7. 09:22 AM - GT YAK blades (ALEXGTPROPELLERS)
8. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Cold weather oil woes (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 11:01 AM - Re: Chinese 3 blade prop hubs (Joe Howse)
10. 05:13 PM - Oil cooler pre-heater (Eric Wobschall)
11. 06:16 PM - Re: Oil cooler pre-heater (keithmckinley)
12. 06:16 PM - Re: GT YAK blades (Richard.Goode)
13. 10:49 PM - Re: Re: Oil cooler pre-heater (Didier Blouzard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
*And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've designed
and installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil cooler......
*
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>
> Keith, et al:
> You bring up a number of points that I have commented on previously,
> apparently to little avail.
>
> First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
> I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My preference is
> the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have also installed
> the Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the R985/R1340, etc.
> The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of these
> aircraft approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine of high oil
> flow with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all radials fit this
> description but so do certain inline types.
>
> There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it is located
> to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
>
> Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve. Initial running
> with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of 300 psi.
> Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve to dump oil
> directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this opens at 85psi.
> This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass valve.
>
> The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using on their
> engines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi. That
> basically means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open as
> closed.
> Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough pressure to
> collapse the filter.
> IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong on an
> aircraft engine.
>
> FWIW
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" <
> keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>
>
>> keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>>
>> For what's it worth:
>>
>> My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the aircraft when I
>> bought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather as well. My oil tank
>> and sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When the cold oil came out of
>> the cooler and hit the filter housing it blew shearing the shaft the filter
>> threads on to.
>>
>> The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold wx, is that
>> they are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They are meant to be
>> used as hydraulic oil filters.
>>
>> The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and viscosity of
>> the oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect the filter
>> construction and size is not up to the task either.
>>
>> I am thankful this happened on the ground.
>>
>> I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial engine
>> aircraft (very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my oil
>> cooler. Additionally, I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in cold
>> weather until I have 20C.
>>
>> Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> KFIT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
I made an oil cooler pre-heater out of commonly available parts. I'll
put up a picture when I get a chance.
On Jan 20, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Cliff Coy wrote:
> And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've
designed and installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil
cooler......
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
wrote:
>
> Keith, et al:
> You bring up a number of points that I have commented on previously,
apparently to little avail.
>
> First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
> I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My
preference is the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have
also installed the Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the
R985/R1340, etc.
> The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of these
aircraft approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine of high
oil flow with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all radials fit
this description but so do certain inline types.
>
> There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it is
located to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
>
> Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve. Initial
running with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of 300 psi.
> Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve to dump
oil directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this opens
at 85psi. This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass valve.
>
> The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using on
their engines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi.
That basically means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open
as closed.
> Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough pressure
to collapse the filter.
> IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong on an
aircraft engine.
>
> FWIW
> Walt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley"
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>
>
>
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>
> For what's it worth:
>
> My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the aircraft
when I bought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather as well.
My oil tank and sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When the cold
oil came out of the cooler and hit the filter housing it blew shearing
the shaft the filter threads on to.
>
> The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold wx, is
that they are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They are
meant to be used as hydraulic oil filters.
>
> The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and viscosity
of the oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect the filter
construction and size is not up to the task either.
>
> I am thankful this happened on the ground.
>
> I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial engine
aircraft (very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my oil
cooler. Additionally, I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in cold
weather until I have 20C.
>
> Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Border Air Ltd.
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: Cliff.Coy
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
OK engine experts, please tell me if I'm missing something here,
but I preheat my oil reservoir with a heat pad five to six hours and
warm the engine for several hours with a forced air electric heater
under one of Doug Sapp's spiffy engine blankets until it's warm enough
that the accessory section doesn't howl like a cat in a fan belt on a
cold morning. I use a cold weather restrictor plate over the front of
the oil cooler. I run the engine at 40% until everything is at least in
the yellow, but then watch for a drop in the oil temperature the first
time that indicates the oil cooler has released its cold oil before I do
a run up. I also run 25W-60 oil. Am I safe in not preheating the oil
cooler as well if I know that the cooler has been purged of cold oil
before flight?
On a similar note, I've flown at high altitudes in the winter in
the Rockies that were likely below zero requiring the gills to be nearly
full closed and the oil cooler closed completely to keep everything in
the green (and what heat the cabin heater could provide). As long as
the CHT and oil temp stays in the green it should be circulating oil
through the cooler often enough to prevent an over pressure from
thickened cold oil. Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Coy
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've
designed and installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil
cooler......
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
wrote:
Keith, et al:
You bring up a number of points that I have commented on previously,
apparently to little avail.
First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My
preference is the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have
also installed the Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the
R985/R1340, etc.
The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of
these aircraft approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine
of high oil flow with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all
radials fit this description but so do certain inline types.
There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it is
located to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve. Initial
running with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of 300 psi.
Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve to
dump oil directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this
opens at 85psi. This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass
valve.
The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using on
their engines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi.
That basically means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open
as closed.
Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough
pressure to collapse the filter.
IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong on
an aircraft engine.
FWIW
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley"
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
For what's it worth:
My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the aircraft
when I bought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather as well.
My oil tank and sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When the cold
oil came out of the cooler and hit the filter housing it blew shearing
the shaft the filter threads on to.
The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold wx,
is that they are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They are
meant to be used as hydraulic oil filters.
The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and
viscosity of the oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect
the filter construction and size is not up to the task either.
I am thankful this happened on the ground.
I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial
engine aircraft (very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my
oil cooler. Additionally, I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in
cold weather until I have 20C.
Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
Install the oil cooler RU fenistrated panel(forgot what it's real name is) o
n the front side of the cooler. It resricts air flow though the front of the
cooler. If you do not have that put a couple of strips of NASCAR duck tape
in two 1-11/2 in strips along and parallel to the capillary tubes in the co
oler. That is done if you(I'm) running on the low end of the green arch in t
he dead of winter.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2011, at 9:37 AM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org> wrote:
> OK engine experts, please tell me if I'm missing something here, but I
preheat my oil reservoir with a heat pad five to six hours and warm the eng
ine for several hours with a forced air electric heater under one of Doug Sa
pp's spiffy engine blankets until it's warm enough that the accessory sectio
n doesn't howl like a cat in a fan belt on a cold morning. I use a cold wea
ther restrictor plate over the front of the oil cooler. I run the engine at
40% until everything is at least in the yellow, but then watch for a drop i
n the oil temperature the first time that indicates the oil cooler has relea
sed its cold oil before I do a run up. I also run 25W-60 oil. Am I safe in
not preheating the oil cooler as well if I know that the cooler has been pu
rged of cold oil before flight?
> On a similar note, I've flown at high altitudes in the winter in the
Rockies that were likely below zero requiring the gills to be nearly full c
losed and the oil cooler closed completely to keep everything in the green (
and what heat the cabin heater could provide). As long as the CHT and oil t
emp stays in the green it should be circulating oil through the cooler often
enough to prevent an over pressure from thickened cold oil. Any recommenda
tions?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cliff Coy
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>
> And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've designed a
nd installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil cooler......
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>
> Keith, et al:
> You bring up a number of points that I have commented on previously, appar
ently to little avail.
>
> First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
> I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My preference i
s the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have also installed t
he Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the R985/R1340, etc.
> The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of these airc
raft approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine of high oil flo
w with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all radials fit this descript
ion but so do certain inline types.
>
> There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it is locate
d to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
>
> Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve. Initial runnin
g with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of 300 psi.
> Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve to dump oil
directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this opens at 85psi
. This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass valve.
>
> The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using on their e
ngines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi. That basical
ly means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open as closed.
> Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough pressure to c
ollapse the filter.
> IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong on an airc
raft engine.
>
> FWIW
> Walt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp
.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>
>
>
m>
>
> For what's it worth:
>
> My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the aircraft when I b
ought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather as well. My oil tank a
nd sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When the cold oil came out of th
e cooler and hit the filter housing it blew shearing the shaft the filter th
reads on to.
>
> The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold wx, is that t
hey are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They are meant to be u
sed as hydraulic oil filters.
>
> The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and viscosity of th
e oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect the filter constructi
on and size is not up to the task either.
>
> I am thankful this happened on the ground.
>
> I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial engine aircr
aft (very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my oil cooler. Add
itionally, I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in cold weather until I
have 20C.
>
> Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Border Air Ltd.
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: Cliff.Coy
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
Doc,
I did the tape trick until fellow Colorado YAKPak type friend Dale
made me a nice copy of an original Russki type restrictor.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp M.D.
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
Install the oil cooler RU fenistrated panel(forgot what it's real name
is) on the front side of the cooler. It resricts air flow though the
front of the cooler. If you do not have that put a couple of strips of
NASCAR duck tape in two 1-11/2 in strips along and parallel to the
capillary tubes in the cooler. That is done if you(I'm) running on the
low end of the green arch in the dead of winter.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2011, at 9:37 AM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org>
wrote:
OK engine experts, please tell me if I'm missing something
here, but I preheat my oil reservoir with a heat pad five to six hours
and warm the engine for several hours with a forced air electric heater
under one of Doug Sapp's spiffy engine blankets until it's warm enough
that the accessory section doesn't howl like a cat in a fan belt on a
cold morning. I use a cold weather restrictor plate over the front of
the oil cooler. I run the engine at 40% until everything is at least in
the yellow, but then watch for a drop in the oil temperature the first
time that indicates the oil cooler has released its cold oil before I do
a run up. I also run 25W-60 oil. Am I safe in not preheating the oil
cooler as well if I know that the cooler has been purged of cold oil
before flight?
On a similar note, I've flown at high altitudes in the winter
in the Rockies that were likely below zero requiring the gills to be
nearly full closed and the oil cooler closed completely to keep
everything in the green (and what heat the cabin heater could provide).
As long as the CHT and oil temp stays in the green it should be
circulating oil through the cooler often enough to prevent an over
pressure from thickened cold oil. Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Coy
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've
designed and installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil
cooler......
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
wrote:
<wlannon@persona.ca>
Keith, et al:
You bring up a number of points that I have commented on
previously, apparently to little avail.
First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My
preference is the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have
also installed the Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the
R985/R1340, etc.
The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of
these aircraft approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine
of high oil flow with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all
radials fit this description but so do certain inline types.
There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it
is located to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve.
Initial running with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of
300 psi.
Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve
to dump oil directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this
opens at 85psi. This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass
valve.
The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using
on their engines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi.
That basically means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open
as closed.
Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough
pressure to collapse the filter.
IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong
on an aircraft engine.
FWIW
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley"
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
For what's it worth:
My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the
aircraft when I bought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather
as well. My oil tank and sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When
the cold oil came out of the cooler and hit the filter housing it blew
shearing the shaft the filter threads on to.
The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold
wx, is that they are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They
are meant to be used as hydraulic oil filters.
The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and
viscosity of the oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect
the filter construction and size is not up to the task either.
I am thankful this happened on the ground.
I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial
engine aircraft (very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my
oil cooler. Additionally, I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in
cold weather until I have 20C.
Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
Sounds just right to me. The only thing I might add is cycle the prop occasionally.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Davis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
OK engine experts, please tell me if I'm missing something here, but I preheat
my oil reservoir with a heat pad five to six hours and warm the engine
for several hours with a forced air electric heater under one of Doug Sapp's spiffy
engine blankets until it's warm enough that the accessory section doesn't
howl like a cat in a fan belt on a cold morning. I use a cold weather restrictor
plate over the front of the oil cooler. I run the engine at 40% until everything
is at least in the yellow, but then watch for a drop in the oil temperature
the first time that indicates the oil cooler has released its cold oil
before I do a run up. I also run 25W-60 oil. Am I safe in not preheating the
oil cooler as well if I know that the cooler has been purged of cold oil before
flight?
On a similar note, I've flown at high altitudes in the winter in the Rockies
that were likely below zero requiring the gills to be nearly full closed
and the oil cooler closed completely to keep everything in the green (and what
heat the cabin heater could provide). As long as the CHT and oil temp stays
in the green it should be circulating oil through the cooler often enough to
prevent an over pressure from thickened cold oil. Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Coy
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've designed and
installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil cooler......
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
Keith, et al:
You bring up a number of points that I have commented on previously, apparently
to little avail.
First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My preference
is the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have also installed the
Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the R985/R1340, etc.
The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of these aircraft
approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine of high oil flow
with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all radials fit this description
but so do certain inline types.
There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it is located
to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve. Initial running
with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of 300 psi.
Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve to dump oil
directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this opens at 85psi.
This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass valve.
The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using on their
engines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi. That basically
means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open as closed.
Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough pressure to
collapse the filter.
IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong on an aircraft
engine.
FWIW
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
For what's it worth:
My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the aircraft when
I bought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather as well. My oil tank
and sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When the cold oil came out of the
cooler and hit the filter housing it blew shearing the shaft the filter threads
on to.
The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold wx, is that
they are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They are meant to be
used as hydraulic oil filters.
The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and viscosity of
the oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect the filter construction
and size is not up to the task either.
I am thankful this happened on the ground.
I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial engine aircraft
(very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my oil cooler. Additionally,
I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in cold weather until I
have 20C.
Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
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==========
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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Message 7
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HI,greetings from Italy.
Next days I'll introduce further details about our M-14 blades specifications on
the forum.
Arrivederci.
Alex Tonini
GT Propellers
Via del Commercio, 7
47838 Riccione (RN) Italy
Tel. +39 0541 69 33 99
Fax +39 0541 69 33 31
www.gt-propellers.com
info@gt-propellers.com
ENAC 21 P CERTIFIED
Unica ditta italiana di eliche certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327690#327690
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pa160004_1_131.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather oil woes |
Copy. Then you are uptown!
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 20, 2011, at 10:52 AM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org> wrote:
> Doc,
> I did the tape trick until fellow Colorado YAKPak type friend Dale mad
e me a nice copy of an original Russki type restrictor.
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Kemp M.D.
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>
> Install the oil cooler RU fenistrated panel(forgot what it's real name is)
on the front side of the cooler. It resricts air flow though the front of t
he cooler. If you do not have that put a couple of strips of NASCAR duck ta
pe in two 1-11/2 in strips along and parallel to the capillary tubes in the c
ooler. That is done if you(I'm) running on the low end of the green arch in t
he dead of winter.
> Doc
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 20, 2011, at 9:37 AM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org> wrote:
>
>> OK engine experts, please tell me if I'm missing something here, but
I preheat my oil reservoir with a heat pad five to six hours and warm the e
ngine for several hours with a forced air electric heater under one of Doug S
app's spiffy engine blankets until it's warm enough that the accessory secti
on doesn't howl like a cat in a fan belt on a cold morning. I use a cold we
ather restrictor plate over the front of the oil cooler. I run the engine a
t 40% until everything is at least in the yellow, but then watch for a drop i
n the oil temperature the first time that indicates the oil cooler has relea
sed its cold oil before I do a run up. I also run 25W-60 oil. Am I safe in
not preheating the oil cooler as well if I know that the cooler has been pu
rged of cold oil before flight?
>> On a similar note, I've flown at high altitudes in the winter in th
e Rockies that were likely below zero requiring the gills to be nearly full c
losed and the oil cooler closed completely to keep everything in the green (
and what heat the cabin heater could provide). As long as the CHT and oil t
emp stays in the green it should be circulating oil through the cooler often
enough to prevent an over pressure from thickened cold oil. Any recommenda
tions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark Davis
>> N44YK
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Cliff Coy
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>>
>> And for all those who end up blowing up an oil cooler.... we've designed a
nd installed a bolt on oil cooler conversion to a U.S. oil cooler......
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 20:32, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Keith, et al:
>> You bring up a number of points that I have commented on previously, appa
rently to little avail.
>>
>> First let me say I agree with your choice of filter systems.
>> I install only approved radial engine oil filter systems. My preference i
s the original ADC screen type but the spin-on is fine. Have also installed t
he Air Tractor spin-on which is also approved for the R985/R1340, etc.
>> The use of the term "radial" is not the defining description of these air
craft approved systems. A better one may be a DRY SUMP engine of high oil fl
ow with an oil scavange pump system. Of course all radials fit this descrip
tion but so do certain inline types.
>>
>> There is no point in installing an external oil filter unless it is locat
ed to filter oil immediately on leaving the engine.
>>
>> Scavange pump pressure is NOT regulated by a relief valve. Initial runni
ng with very cold oil could produce pressures in excess of 300 psi.
>> Many cold weather radial installations utilize a "surge" valve to dump oi
l directly to the tank. On the R1340/Harvard installation this opens at 85ps
i. This is in addition to the normal oil cooler by-pass valve.
>>
>> The hydraulic system, super micron, filters that some are using on their e
ngines have a miniscule capacity by-pass that opens at 15 psi. That basical
ly means that the by-pass probably spends as much time open as closed.
>> Even with an open by-pass and cold oil there could be enough pressure to c
ollapse the filter.
>> IMHO they are a total waste of time and money and do not belong on an air
craft engine.
>>
>> FWIW
>> Walt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townis
p.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:58 PM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Cold weather oil woes
>>
>>
>>
om>
>>
>> For what's it worth:
>>
>> My system, which may or may not have been Craig's (on the aircraft when I
bought it) but looked identical, failed in cold weather as well. My oil tan
k and sump was heated, the oil cooler was not. When the cold oil came out of
the cooler and hit the filter housing it blew shearing the shaft the filter
threads on to.
>>
>> The problem with using systems like this, especially in cold wx, is that t
hey are not designed for aircraft and the oils we use. They are meant to be u
sed as hydraulic oil filters.
>>
>> The filter housing bypass is too small for the volume and viscosity of t
he oil trying to pass through (if needed) and I suspect the filter construct
ion and size is not up to the task either.
>>
>> I am thankful this happened on the ground.
>>
>> I've since installed a ADC spin on system designed for radial engine airc
raft (very large bypass) and have placed a strip heater on my oil cooler. Ad
ditionally, I will not move the throttle past 1200 rpm in cold weather until
I have 20C.
>>
>> Even better...I now have a heated hangar....
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> KFIT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327625#327625
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Clifford Coy
>> Border Air Ltd.
>> 629 Airport Rd.
>> Swanton, VT 05488
>> 802-868-2822 TEL
>> 802-868-4465 FAX
>> Skype: Cliff.Coy
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"'>http://www.matron
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> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>
>
>
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese 3 blade prop hubs |
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Oil cooler pre-heater |
This is my preheating arrangement. Cover from Doug Sapp (extra moving
pad on top probably not necessary). As you can see, I don't cinch it
underneath, but there are fasteners for that. On the other side, I tuck
the cover into the cowl outlet. I use a Harbor Freight disk heater with
the pictured HVAC ducting. I use the 1500 watt setting, but it might
work on the 1000W setting too, especially if you have some lead time.
This warms everything up FWF. I then rigged up something similar for the
oil cooler. Not pictured in front of the oil cooler is one of the
apertures for cooler temps. I put that heater on the 1000 watt setting.
That pretty much just leaves the long hoses that feed the oil cooler
unheated. I also use the Phillips 25-60 radial engine oil.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler pre-heater |
What the hell Mark! You didn't insulate the duct work!
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327737#327737
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: GT YAK blades |
Hi Alex,
Greetings from the sun.
How is the certification going-we really do need that to put on European
Yaks and Sukhoi which are controlled by EASA.
Regards
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ALEXGTPROPELLERS" <info@gt-propellers.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:50 PM
Subject: Yak-List: GT YAK blades
> <info@gt-propellers.com>
>
> HI,greetings from Italy.
> Next days I'll introduce further details about our M-14 blades
> specifications on the forum.
>
> Arrivederci.
>
> Alex Tonini
>
>
> GT Propellers
> Via del Commercio, 7
> 47838 Riccione (RN) Italy
> Tel. +39 0541 69 33 99
> Fax +39 0541 69 33 31
> www.gt-propellers.com
> info@gt-propellers.com
> ENAC 21 P CERTIFIED
>
> Unica ditta italiana di eliche certificate
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327690#327690
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pa160004_1_131.jpg
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner
> and is believed to be clean.
> http://www.invictawiz.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler pre-heater |
Is your pre-heating device certified by an FAA inspector.
Have you tested your installation in an EASA certified process.....??
But more important than that have you filled the thousands pages of the
pre-request allowing you to ask the question to the right organism???
If not it will cost you ....... bottles and bottles of Vodka to make the
administration forget your existence !!!
You'd better stop flying and start the paperworks!!!
2011/1/21 keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
> keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>
> What the hell Mark! You didn't insulate the duct work!
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327737#327737
>
>
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard@gmail.com
0624243672
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