Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:26 PM - Re: Yak-52 elevator failure (Cliff Coy)
2. 03:14 PM - Re: Yak-52 elevator failure (Walter Lannon)
3. 06:47 PM - Re: Yak-52 elevator failure (T A LEWIS)
4. 07:50 PM - Re: CJ6 Shimmy damper problems (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 07:50 PM - Re: Yak-52 elevator failure (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 09:40 PM - Re: CJ6 Shimmy damper problems (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 elevator failure |
*This is the elevator counter balance arm.
The elevators, as well as the ailerons, are mass balanced controls.
The rudder is both mass balanced and aerodynamically balanced.
If you're not already familiar with aircraft control design, here is a good
primer on aircraft:
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Theories_of_Flight/control/TH28.htm
Best regards,
Cliff
*
On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 23:16, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>
> Possibly. The crack is originating at the section change where loads would
> tend to concentrate but it may also be subject to bending loads from the
> balance weight attached to the upper, heavier, section.
> Possibly rudder induced transverse loading?
> I don't understand the use of a balance weight in this location.
> Walt
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Halverson" <
> william@netpros.net>
>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
>
>
>>
>>
>> Well, the part is cracking on the upper side ... would it be due to
>> aggressive pull back forces on the stick?
>>
>>
>> +-----Original Message-----
>> +From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@persona.ca]
>> +Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 04:00 PM
>> +To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> +Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
>> +
>> +Interesting!
>> +
>> +How much weight is attached to this part? And for what purpose?
>> +
>> +Walt
>> + ----- Original Message ----- + From: pilko2
>> + To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> + Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:25 AM
>> + Subject: FW: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> + Trawling the website of Yak UK reveals this to be a well known gotcha.
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> + http://www.yakuk.com/2000-004.doc
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> + MPD: 2000-004
>> +
>> +
>> + Subject: Crack in elevator control system pulley.
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> + Applicability: Yakovlev/ Aerostar or a SA Y B AK 52 aircraft.
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> + Reason: A 19 mm crack has been discovered in the elevator actuation
>> part number 5251 or 00-80-3 (referred to as "lever" in the Romanian parts
>> catalogue). The failure of this component could result in loss of the
>> elevator control.
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> + Compliance: Within 50 hours from the effective date of this MPD,
>> inspect elevator actuation pulley parts number 525100-80-34 cracking on its
>> periphery below the attachment for the balance weight bracket, at the point
>> where the section reduces from a 10 mm to 7 mm. Inspect using dye penetrant
>> techniques. if the component is cracked, replace it before Further Flight.
>> Repeat this inspection annually at renewal of the permit to fly.
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> +
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> +
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 elevator failure |
Hi Cliff;
Thanks for your reply. There seems to be a bit of confusion re this part.
It is not a control balance arm which would typically extend well forward of the
control surface hinge line.
This is the elevator control cable drive sector (bellcrank).
It appears to have weight mounted on it directly above the hinge centre line.
That would have absolutely zero effect on elevator balance if the weight is mounted
where the attachment holes are located.
But, I am beginning to get the picture!!!!!!! Is this the mounting location for
the balance ARM?
If so that takes my concern to a whole new level. That would be the absolutely
dumbest place you could possibly imagine to attach a balance arm.
Not only does the sector have to handle the balance weight the effect is severely
magnified by the length of the arm.
The cause of this cracking I believe is a direct result of that installation.
Any asymmetrical rudder loads will induce horizontal loading of the ELEVATOR balance
weight which will in turn
induce a twisting moment in the elevator sector.
Over (who knows how) many cycles this will result in a fatigue failure at the most
likely focal point. Barring a severe nick or other mechanical damage that
point is the section change.
Now I begin to understand why they are suggesting a STEEL replacement.
Walt
PS:
---- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Coy
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
This is the elevator counter balance arm.
The elevators, as well as the ailerons, are mass balanced controls.
The rudder is both mass balanced and aerodynamically balanced.
If you're not already familiar with aircraft control design, here is a good primer
on aircraft:
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Theories_of_Flight/control/TH28.htm
Best regards,
Cliff
On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 23:16, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
Possibly. The crack is originating at the section change where loads would
tend to concentrate but it may also be subject to bending loads from the balance
weight attached to the upper, heavier, section.
Possibly rudder induced transverse loading?
I don't understand the use of a balance weight in this location.
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: "William Halverson" <william@netpros.net>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
Well, the part is cracking on the upper side ... would it be due to aggressive
pull back forces on the stick?
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@persona.ca]
+Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 04:00 PM
+To: yak-list@matronics.com
+Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
+
+Interesting!
+
+How much weight is attached to this part? And for what purpose?
+
+Walt
+ ----- Original Message ----- + From: pilko2
+ To: yak-list@matronics.com
+ Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:25 AM
+ Subject: FW: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
+
+
+
+
+ Trawling the website of Yak UK reveals this to be a well known gotcha.
+
+
+
+ http://www.yakuk.com/2000-004.doc
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ MPD: 2000-004
+
+
+ Subject: Crack in elevator control system pulley.
+
+
+
+ Applicability: Yakovlev/ Aerostar or a SA Y B AK 52 aircraft.
+
+
+
+ Reason: A 19 mm crack has been discovered in the elevator actuation part
number 5251 or 00-80-3 (referred to as "lever" in the Romanian parts catalogue).
The failure of this component could result in loss of the elevator control.
+
+
+
+ Compliance: Within 50 hours from the effective date of this MPD, inspect
elevator actuation pulley parts number 525100-80-34 cracking on its periphery
below the attachment for the balance weight bracket, at the point where the
section reduces from a 10 mm to 7 mm. Inspect using dye penetrant techniques.
if the component is cracked, replace it before Further Flight. Repeat this inspection
annually at renewal of the permit to fly.
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
+
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Clifford Coy
Border Air Ltd.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: Cliff.Coy
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 elevator failure |
Hi Walt ,=0AThat is a very incisive analysis of why this part might fail .
I think you may =0Ahave =0A=0Ashed some light on this problem .=0ATerry=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Walter Lannon <wlannon
@persona.ca>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, March 27, 2011 5:47:
35 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure=0A=0A=0AHi Cliff;=0A
-=0AThanks for your reply.- There seems to be a bit of confusion re thi
s part.=0AIt is not a control balance arm which would typically extend well
forward of the =0Acontrol surface hinge line.=0A-=0AThis is the elevator
control cable drive sector (bellcrank). =0AIt appears to have- weight mo
unted on it directly above the hinge centre line.=0AThat would have absolut
ely zero effect on elevator balance if the weight is =0Amounted where the a
ttachment holes are located.=0ABut, I am beginning to get the picture!!!!!!
!-- Is this the mounting location =0Afor the balance ARM?=0A-=0AIf so
that takes my concern to a whole new level.- That would be the absolutel
y =0Adumbest place you could possibly imagine to attach a balance arm.=0A
-=0ANot only does the sector have to handle the balance weight the effect
is =0Aseverely magnified by the length of the arm.=0AThe cause of this cra
cking I believe is a direct result of that installation.=0AAny asymmetrical
rudder loads will induce horizontal loading of the ELEVATOR =0Abalance wei
ght which will in turn =0A=0Ainduce a twisting moment in the elevator secto
r. =0AOver (who knows how) many cycles this will result in a fatigue failur
e at =0Athe-most likely focal-point. Barring a severe nick or other mec
hanical damage =0Athat point is the section change.=0A-=0ANow-I begin t
o understand why they are suggesting a-STEEL replacement.- =0A-=0AWal
t=0A=0APS:=0A---- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Cliff Coy =0A>To: yak-lis
t@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:58 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Y
ak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure=0A>=0A>This is the elevator counter balanc
e arm.=0A>The elevators, as well as the ailerons, are mass balanced control
s.=0A>The rudder is both mass balanced and aerodynamically balanced.=0A>=0A
>If you're not already familiar with aircraft control design, here is a goo
d =0A>primer on aircraft:=0A>=0A>http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Th
eories_of_Flight/control/TH28.htm=0A>=0A>Best regards,=0A>Cliff=0A>=0A>=0A>
On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 23:16, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:=0A
>=0A>>Possibly. -The crack is originating at the section change where loa
ds would tend =0A>>to concentrate but it may also be subject to bending loa
ds from the balance =0A>>weight attached to the upper, heavier, section.=0A
>>Possibly rudder induced transverse loading?=0A>>I don't understand the us
e of a balance weight in this location.=0A>>Walt=0A>>----- Original Message
----- From: "William Halverson" <william@netpros.net> =0A>>=0A>>To: <yak-l
ist@matronics.com>=0A>>Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:21 PM =0A>>=0A>>Sub
ject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>--> Yak-List
message posted by: "William Halverson" <william@netpros.net>=0A>>>=0A>>>
=0A>>>Well, the part is cracking on the upper side ... would it be due to a
ggressive =0A>>>pull back forces on the stick?=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>+-----Origi
nal Message-----=0A>>>+From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@persona.ca]=0A>>
>+Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 04:00 PM=0A>>>+To: yak-list@matronics.com
=0A>>>+Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure=0A>>>+=0A>>>+Interest
ing!=0A>>>+=0A>>>+How much weight is attached to this part? -And for what
purpose?=0A>>>+=0A>>>+Walt=0A>>>+ ------ Original Message ----- + -Fro
m: pilko2=0A>>>+ -To: yak-list@matronics.com=0A>>>+ -Sent: Saturday, Ma
rch 26, 2011 5:25 AM=0A>>>+ -Subject: FW: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failu
re=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ -Trawling the website of Yak UK rev
eals this to be a well known gotcha.=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ - http:/
/www.yakuk.com/2000-004.doc=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>
+=0A>>>+ -MPD: 2000-004=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ -Subject: Crack in elevato
r control system pulley.=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ -Applicability: Yako
vlev/ Aerostar or a SA Y B AK 52 aircraft.=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ -R
eason: A 19 mm crack has been discovered in the elevator actuation part =0A
>>>number 5251 or 00-80-3 (referred to as "lever" in the Romanian parts cat
alogue). =0A>>>The failure of this component could result in loss of the el
evator control.=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ -Compliance: Within 50 hours
from the effective date of this MPD, inspect =0A>>>elevator actuation pulle
y parts number 525100-80-34 cracking on its periphery =0A>>>below the attac
hment for the balance weight bracket, at the point where the =0A>>>section
reduces from a 10 mm to 7 mm. Inspect using dye penetrant techniques. if
=0A>>>the component is cracked, replace it before Further Flight. Repeat th
is =0A>>>inspection annually at renewal of the permit to fly.=0A>>>+=0A>>>+
=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+=0A>>>+ =0A>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>>=0A>>>+=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>
>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>=0A>============0A>rget
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A>=====
=======0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>=======
=====0A>le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution=0A>============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>-
- =0A>Clifford Coy=0A>Border Air Ltd.=0A>629 Airport Rd.=0A>Swanton, VT 054
88=0A>802-868-2822 TEL=0A>802-868-4465 FAX=0A>Skype: Cliff.Coy=0A>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Shimmy damper problems |
You may also have an out of balance nose wheel tire and wheel. Very
common problem.
Dennis
On 3/26/2011 10:35 PM, CJ6XXK wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CJ6XXK"<Danielt_355@hotmail.com>
>
> I just done some high speed taxi runs in my cj6 today and have a few problems.
>
> First thing is that i raise the the nose of the plane then put it down again
and i have got massive amounts of shimmy.
> This was a brand new shimmy damper i bought and fitted as well.
> Is there a special way to set them up?
>
> Thanks Daniel
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=335149#335149
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 elevator failure |
Hi Walt,
Yes, the 4 mounting holes are for the mounting arm as you suggest which
extends forward and has a significant weight on the end. I will take
some photos of the counterweight arm as mounted on the bellcrank
tomorrow and post them on the list.
Dennis
On 3/27/2011 8:17 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:
> Hi Walt ,
> That is a very incisive analysis of why this part might fail . I think
> you may have
> shed some light on this problem .
> Terry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sun, March 27, 2011 5:47:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
>
> Hi Cliff;
> Thanks for your reply. There seems to be a bit of confusion re this part.
> It is not a control balance arm which would typically extend well
> forward of the control surface hinge line.
> This is the elevator control cable drive sector (bellcrank).
> It appears to have weight mounted on it directly above the hinge
> centre line.
> That would have absolutely zero effect on elevator balance if the
> weight is mounted where the attachment holes are located.
> But, I am beginning to get the picture!!!!!!! Is this the mounting
> location for the balance ARM?
> If so that takes my concern to a whole new level. That would be the
> absolutely dumbest place you could possibly imagine to attach a
> balance arm.
> Not only does the sector have to handle the balance weight the effect
> is severely magnified by the length of the arm.
> The cause of this cracking I believe is a direct result of that
> installation.
> Any asymmetrical rudder loads will induce horizontal loading of the
> ELEVATOR balance weight which will in turn
> induce a twisting moment in the elevator sector.
> Over (who knows how) many cycles this will result in a fatigue failure
> at the most likely focal point. Barring a severe nick or other
> mechanical damage that point is the section change.
> Now I begin to understand why they are suggesting a STEEL replacement.
> Walt
> PS:
> ---- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Cliff Coy <mailto:cliff.coy@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:58 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
>
> *This is the elevator counter balance arm.
> The elevators, as well as the ailerons, are mass balanced controls.
> The rudder is both mass balanced and aerodynamically balanced.
>
> If you're not already familiar with aircraft control design, here
> is a good primer on aircraft:
>
> http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Theories_of_Flight/control/TH28.htm
>
> Best regards,
> Cliff
> *
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 23:16, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca
> <mailto:wlannon@persona.ca>> wrote:
>
> <wlannon@persona.ca <mailto:wlannon@persona.ca>>
>
> Possibly. The crack is originating at the section change where
> loads would tend to concentrate but it may also be subject to
> bending loads from the balance weight attached to the upper,
> heavier, section.
> Possibly rudder induced transverse loading?
> I don't understand the use of a balance weight in this location.
> Walt
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Halverson"
> <william@netpros.net <mailto:william@netpros.net>>
>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
>
>
> <william@netpros.net <mailto:william@netpros.net>>
>
>
> Well, the part is cracking on the upper side ... would it
> be due to aggressive pull back forces on the stick?
>
>
> +-----Original Message-----
> +From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@persona.ca
> <mailto:wlannon@persona.ca>]
> +Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 04:00 PM
> +To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> +Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
> +
> +Interesting!
> +
> +How much weight is attached to this part? And for what
> purpose?
> +
> +Walt
> + ----- Original Message ----- + From: pilko2
> + To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> + Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:25 AM
> + Subject: FW: Yak-List: Yak-52 elevator failure
> +
> +
> +
> +
> + Trawling the website of Yak UK reveals this to be a well
> known gotcha.
> +
> +
> +
> + http://www.yakuk.com/2000-004.doc
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> + MPD: 2000-004
> +
> +
> + Subject: Crack in elevator control system pulley.
> +
> +
> +
> + Applicability: Yakovlev/ Aerostar or a SA Y B AK 52
> aircraft.
> +
> +
> +
> + Reason: A 19 mm crack has been discovered in the
> elevator actuation part number 5251 or 00-80-3 (referred
> to as "lever" in the Romanian parts catalogue). The
> failure of this component could result in loss of the
> elevator control.
> +
> +
> +
> + Compliance: Within 50 hours from the effective date of
> this MPD, inspect elevator actuation pulley parts number
> 525100-80-34 cracking on its periphery below the
> attachment for the balance weight bracket, at the point
> where the section reduces from a 10 mm to 7 mm. Inspect
> using dye penetrant techniques. if the component is
> cracked, replace it before Further Flight. Repeat this
> inspection annually at renewal of the permit to fly.
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> +
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> +
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Border Air Ltd.
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: Cliff.Coy
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Shimmy damper problems |
Not only out of balance but if the scissors is loose at all you'll get the
same thing. There can not be any play in the bolts that are part of the
scissor assembly.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 3/27/2011 10:51:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
You may also have an out of balance nose wheel tire and wheel. Very
common problem.
Dennis
On 3/26/2011 10:35 PM, CJ6XXK wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CJ6XXK"<Danielt_355@hotmail.com>
>
> I just done some high speed taxi runs in my cj6 today and have a few
problems.
>
> First thing is that i raise the the nose of the plane then put it down
again and i have got massive amounts of shimmy.
> This was a brand new shimmy damper i bought and fitted as well.
> Is there a special way to set them up?
>
> Thanks Daniel
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=335149#335149
>
>
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