---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/15/11: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:12 AM - Re: Program Letter (A. Dennis Savarese) 2. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Program Letter (okanoganlew@gmail.com) 3. 11:35 AM - Re: Program Letter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 4. 11:50 AM - Re: Program Letter (cjpilot710@aol.com) 5. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Program Letter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 6. 11:53 AM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 7. 12:05 PM - Re: Program Letter (George Coy) 8. 12:15 PM - Re: Program Letter (Eric Wobschall) 9. 12:27 PM - Re: Program Letter (Warren Hill) 10. 01:42 PM - Re: Program Letter (A. Dennis Savarese) 11. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Program Letter (William Halverson) 12. 04:00 PM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Chris Wise) 13. 04:35 PM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Tom Elliott) 14. 04:52 PM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Eric Wobschall) 15. 05:13 PM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Chris Wise) 16. 05:15 PM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Chris Wise) 17. 07:05 PM - Oil Shut Off Valve. (Chris Wise) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:49 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled". I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. Dennis On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > say that you must report non activity. > > Paul > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > wrote: > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > then I > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > Program > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > send a > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > flights are > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > limit, > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 2 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DQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4gPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoN Cg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+IC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwg TGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4NCg0KDQo+ID4gPT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0K PiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCg0KPiA+DQoNCiUyDQo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Program Letter From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" They will not accept a program letter with nothing on it. They will also not accept a program letter with EVERYTHING on it. They will not accept NO program letter since your Operating Limitations says you must turn one in. In my mind, this is a kind of game.... and I have been through a lot of games like this, since I work for the Govt. too. Here is the bottom line: The FAA has guidelines and requirements that they must follow. Some of these impact us as Experimental Exhibition owners. Logic and reason have nothing to do with this... so don't go there. Figure out.. .and if necessary ASK THEM just what it is they require and just do it. You lose NOTHING by going along with the game. It is tempting to get into a verbal fight with these people. Believe me... BELIEVE ME... I know that myself. Here's the plus: I met one gentlemen locally at my FISDO that I respect, and who I believe is being totally honest with me. If you can find a person like I have, you are really in luck. I can TALK to this guy. And I honestly believe he has my best interests in mind. So I asked him. He told me. I did what he told me to do. All seems to be well. I suggest this course of action to all. "Low Profile" is exactly right. Mark Bitterlich From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled". I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. Dennis On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > say that you must report non activity. > > Paul > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > wrote: > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic(tm) 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > then I > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > Program > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > send a > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > flights are > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > limit, > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:22 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter So you wouldn't get ramp checked at your own airport? I've personally gotten ramp checked at the damndest places. I once had a former fellow PA A pilot and good friend ramp check me! It may "not make any sense" EXCEPT to the FAA. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby In a message dated 4/15/2011 2:34:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, okanoganlew@gmail.com writes: That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, then why would you be concerned with a ranp check? On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for th e year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry on e with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one tha t says "no events scheduled". > > > > > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does no t > > > say that you must report non activity. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > > > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic=84=A2 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > > > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins , > > > > > > > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This lis t of > > > > > > > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > > > then I > > > > > > > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > > > > > > > Program > > > > > > > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > > > send a > > > > > > > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > > > flights are > > > > > > > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > > > limit, > > > > > > > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > %2 ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" If you are flying an airplane, you always have to be concerned with a ramp check. If you believe that FAA ramp checks are totally random, you are mistaken. Assuming that what the FAA does always makes sense is an example of an Oxymoron. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of okanoganlew@gmail.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, then why would you be concerned with a ranp check? On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" wrote: dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled". > > > > > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > > > say that you must report non activity. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > > > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic(tm) 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > > > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > > > > > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > > > then I > > > > > > > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > > > > > > > Program > > > > > > > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > > > send a > > > > > > > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > > > flights are > > > > > > > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > > > limit, > > > > > > > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > %2 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and cheers, Chris. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:28 PM PST US From: "George Coy" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Program Letter The game depends on the vintage of your program letter. In the 300NM "Proficiency" days you did not need a program letter unless you were going outside the 300 NM. I got "RAMPED" 280 NM from home one day and showed the OPs limits and that was that. No Problem. (also no letter that year) Also you guys should understand that every FSDO and even inspectors within a FSDO have different interpretations of what is required. Best to know your FSDO guy and discuss with him/her what you should do and have him ready to back you up if needed when some other FSDO guy says differently. Un officially I will tell you that my FSDO guys pretty much just discarded my letters after they received them. As you are not REQUIRED to carry a copy of the letter with you when traveling, then it leaves a lot of room for "interpretation" -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:31 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Program Letter MALS-14 64E" They will not accept a program letter with nothing on it. They will also not accept a program letter with EVERYTHING on it. They will not accept NO program letter since your Operating Limitations says you must turn one in. In my mind, this is a kind of game.... and I have been through a lot of games like this, since I work for the Govt. too. Here is the bottom line: The FAA has guidelines and requirements that they must follow. Some of these impact us as Experimental Exhibition owners. Logic and reason have nothing to do with this... so don't go there. Figure out.. .and if necessary ASK THEM just what it is they require and just do it. You lose NOTHING by going along with the game. It is tempting to get into a verbal fight with these people. Believe me... BELIEVE ME... I know that myself. Here's the plus: I met one gentlemen locally at my FISDO that I respect, and who I believe is being totally honest with me. If you can find a person like I have, you are really in luck. I can TALK to this guy. And I honestly believe he has my best interests in mind. So I asked him. He told me. I did what he told me to do. All seems to be well. I suggest this course of action to all. "Low Profile" is exactly right. Mark Bitterlich From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled". I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. Dennis On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > say that you must report non activity. > > Paul > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > wrote: > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic(tm) 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > then I > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > Program > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > send a > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > flights are > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > limit, > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:09 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter You could be flying locally off your home airport for proficiency (which doesn't have to be on your program letter), and be ramped there. On Apr 15, 2011, at 2:30 PM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, then why would you be concerned with a ranp check? > > On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" wrote: dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll carry one that says "no events scheduled". > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low profile when it comes to the FAA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > > > > > > say that you must report non activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > > > > > > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic=99 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > > > > > > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to attend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). Page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This list of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO prior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't fly the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > > > > > > then I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Program > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > > > > > > send a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > > > > > > flights are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > > > > > > limit, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > %2 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter From: Warren Hill When I first got my CJ, one of the local CJ gurus told me to anticipate getting ramp checked at every event attended. Told me to have a plastic folder in the aft cockpit that contained: Copy of license and current medical. Copy from logbook: Last BFR, last annual, warbird FFA inspection logbook entry. Phase 2 operating limitations. Current insurance info. Picture of expiratory date tag(s) of parachute(s). Program letter for current year. Registration & special airworthiness certificate. Copy of FAST card, if you have one. Warren On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:02 PM, George Coy wrote: > > The game depends on the vintage of your program letter. In the 300NM > "Proficiency" days you did not need a program letter unless you were going > outside the 300 NM. I got "RAMPED" 280 NM from home one day and showed the > OPs limits and that was that. No Problem. (also no letter that year) > Also you guys should understand that every FSDO and even inspectors > within a FSDO have different interpretations of what is required. Best to > know your FSDO guy and discuss with him/her what you should do and have him > ready to back you up if needed when some other FSDO guy says differently. > > Un officially I will tell you that my FSDO guys pretty much just discarded > my letters after they received them. As you are not REQUIRED to carry a copy > of the letter with you when traveling, then it leaves a lot of room for > "interpretation" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G > CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:31 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Program Letter > > MALS-14 64E" > > They will not accept a program letter with nothing on it. > > They will also not accept a program letter with EVERYTHING on it. > > They will not accept NO program letter since your Operating Limitations > says you must turn one in. > > In my mind, this is a kind of game.... and I have been through a lot of > games like this, since I work for the Govt. too. > > Here is the bottom line: > > The FAA has guidelines and requirements that they must follow. > > Some of these impact us as Experimental Exhibition owners. > > Logic and reason have nothing to do with this... so don't go there. > > Figure out.. .and if necessary ASK THEM just what it is they require and > just do it. You lose NOTHING by going along with the game. > > It is tempting to get into a verbal fight with these people. Believe > me... BELIEVE ME... I know that myself. > > Here's the plus: I met one gentlemen locally at my FISDO that I > respect, and who I believe is being totally honest with me. If you can > find a person like I have, you are really in luck. I can TALK to this > guy. And I honestly believe he has my best interests in mind. So I > asked him. He told me. I did what he told me to do. All seems to be > well. > > I suggest this course of action to all. "Low Profile" is exactly right. > > > Mark Bitterlich > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis > Savarese > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:10 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the > > year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked > by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or > carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll > carry one that says "no events scheduled". > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make > their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of > > a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned > activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low > profile when it comes to the FAA. > > Dennis > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: >> Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does > not >> say that you must report non activity. >> >> Paul >> >> On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" >> wrote: >> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's > OL's. >> The OL's always take precedent. >>> >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg > Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I guess fisdo's can be a little different >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Samsung Epic(tm) 4G >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis >> Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be >>> >>> >>> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This > fulfills >>> >>> >>> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to > attend >>> >>> >>> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter > by >>> >>> >>> FAX to the FSDO. >>> >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" >>> >>> >>> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm > pretty >>> >>> >>> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must > be >>> >>> >>> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). > Page >>> >>> >>> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual >>> >>> >>> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, > fly-ins, >>> >>> >>> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at >>> >>> >>> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This > list of >>> >>> >>> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO > prior >>> >>> >>> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted >>> >>> >>> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this >>> >>> >>> aircraft and be available to the pilot. >>> >>> >>> (Applicability: All) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg > Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't > fly the >>> >>> >>> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kregg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Victory Aero LLC >>> >>> >>> 2502 John Montgomery Dr. >>> >>> >>> San Jose, CA 95148 >>> >>> >>> 408-836-5122 >>> >>> >>> www.balancemyprop.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >>> >>> >>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan > Lew >>> >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM >>> >>> >>> To: yak-list@matronics.com >>> >>> >>> Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan > Lew"vplewis@community.org> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to >>> >>> >>> Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& >> then I >>> >>> >>> received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous >>> >>> >>> Program >>> >>> >>> Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere > in >>> >>> >>> 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said > the >>> >>> >>> 2009 >>> >>> >>> letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to >> send a >>> >>> >>> letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no >> flights are >>> >>> >>> planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile >> limit, >>> >>> >>> or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? > Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul Lewis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:05 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter I've seen FAA inspectors on the ramp of an airport where there wasn't an event and ask someone for their paperwork. Dennis On 4/15/2011 1:30 PM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > That does'nt make any sense Dennis. If you are not attending events, > then why would you be concerned with a ranp check? > > On Apr 15, 2011 4:09am, "A. Dennis Savarese" > wrote: > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for > the year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get > asked by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", > or carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll > carry one that says "no events scheduled". > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can > make their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a > copy of a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned > activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low > profile when it comes to the FAA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does not > > > > > > say that you must report non activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's OL's. > > > > > > The OL's always take precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess fisdo's can be a little different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis > > > > > > Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This fulfills > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to > attend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAX to the FSDO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm > pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). > Page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, fly-ins, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This > list of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO > prior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aircraft and be available to the pilot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Applicability: All) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg > Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't > fly the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kregg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victory Aero LLC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2502 John Montgomery Dr. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > San Jose, CA 95148 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 408-836-5122 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.balancemyprop.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan Lew"vplewis@community.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& > > > > > > then I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Program > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to > > > > > > send a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no > > > > > > flights are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile > > > > > > limit, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > %2 > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:58 PM PST US From: "William Halverson" Subject: Re: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter Concur ... FDSOs are looking more closely at Experimental Exhibition types than they used to ... I now expect an inspection every three years ... +-----Original Message----- +From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E [mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil] +Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:45 AM +To: yak-list@matronics.com +Subject: RE: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter + + +If you are flying an airplane, you always have to be concerned with a +ramp check. + +If you believe that FAA ramp checks are totally random, you are +mistaken. + + ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:00 PM PST US From: "Chris Wise" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and cheers, Chris. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:58 PM PST US From: "Tom Elliott" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No problems remember that you are not opening or closing This switch under load. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 777 Quartz Ave PMB 7004 Sandy Valley NV 89019 Cell 702-595-2680 From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and cheers, Chris. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:16 PM PST US From: Eric Wobschall Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Yeah, despite the name "micro" those switched are often used to switch 110 or 220 AC at several amps. Since a relay would add a failure mode, I wouldn't add one unless the contact rating won't allow for it with some margin. On Apr 15, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Tom Elliott wrote: > I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No problems remember that you are not opening or closing > This switch under load. > > Tom Elliott > CJ-6A NX63727 > 777 Quartz Ave > PMB 7004 > Sandy Valley NV > 89019 > Cell 702-595-2680 > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. > > > G'Day Mark, > > Thanks for that. > Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T > another 18T and a 52. > I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the > micro switch in a simple manner. > I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the > micro switch would handle the load. > > > Thanks and cheers, > Chris. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G > CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E > Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. > Point, > MALS-14 64E" > > Chris, > > Use a relay. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. > > G'Day, > > > > Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would > indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro > switch as the current rating seems to be too low. > > Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve > and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? > > > > Thanks and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics= ======================= _p; - List Contribution bsp; -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= =============== > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1321 / 04/14/11 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:04 PM PST US From: "Chris Wise" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Thanks Tom. I agree with opening and closing not under load. Cliff Coy has replied and kindly advised that Omron make the same Micro Switch in 15 Amp. So for peace of mind I shall replace the micro with a 15 Amper and then wire as you all do. Thanks and cheers, Chris. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 9:00 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No problems remember that you are not opening or closing This switch under load. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 777 Quartz Ave PMB 7004 Sandy Valley NV 89019 Cell 702-595-2680 From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / 04/14/11 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:51 PM PST US From: "Chris Wise" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Tom, I am going with a 15 Amp Micro. Also remember that if making and breaking a DC load, requires a switch with heavier contacts. As you say, there is no switching load in this case. Cheers, Chris. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Yeah, despite the name "micro" those switched are often used to switch 110 or 220 AC at several amps. Since a relay would add a failure mode, I wouldn't add one unless the contact rating won't allow for it with some margin. On Apr 15, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Tom Elliott wrote: I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No problems remember that you are not opening or closing This switch under load. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 777 Quartz Ave PMB 7004 Sandy Valley NV 89019 Cell 702-595-2680 From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / 04/14/11 style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:46 PM PST US From: "Chris Wise" Subject: Yak-List: Oil Shut Off Valve. G'Day All, Thanks for the replies re the setting up of the ignition wiring to the micro switch on the oil shut off valve. I had ordered a 24 Volt continues rated solenoid as I did not think that the switch had heavy enough contacts as it is a D.C. load that it had to handle. Conclusion. Keep it as simple as possible and route the wiring from the ignition C/B (Switch) thru the Micro Switch located on the oil shut off valve. No solenoid. Agreed that there is no switching load on the micro switch and Cliff Coy has forwarded the details of where to purchase a micro switch with a 15 amp rating. Problem solved and thanks. Cheers, Chris. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.