---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/18/11: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:25 AM - Re: Oil press indicator : unstable (Cliff Coy) 2. 08:30 AM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 3. 08:34 AM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 4. 08:37 AM - Re: Oil press indicator : unstable (Olivier Vigneron) 5. 08:37 AM - Re: Program Letter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 6. 08:54 AM - Re: Oil press indicator : unstable (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 7. 02:54 PM - Gear not coming up (Thomas Geoghegan) 8. 03:34 PM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Chris Wise) 9. 03:43 PM - Re: Gear not coming up (Gill Gutierrez) 10. 05:21 PM - Re: Gear not coming up (A. Dennis Savarese) 11. 09:18 PM - Re: Gear not coming up (Joe Enzminger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil press indicator : unstable From: Cliff Coy *It's appears you have an electrical **issue** with the aircraft as all of the powered gauges are oscillating at the same frequency. Check your charging system first- bad diode in alternator, or current reversal in the generator. Cheers, Cliff * On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 18:01, ssssskippy wrote: > Thanks for the answer. > You can see the shaky moove of the indicator at the beginning of this > video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f6TfU5T8dY&feature=youtube_gdata_play er > > Olivier > > > Le 17 avr. 2011 =E0 23:45, KingCJ6@aol.com a =E9crit : > > If it is moving quickly, it may be a bad connection or sending unit. Ch eck > the cannon plugs and try to swap front-to-rear sending units to isolate. > > > Dave > > In a message dated 4/17/2011 10:38:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > ssssskippy@gmail.com writes: > > > Hi > > I had a problem with my oil collector that was broken. So there was an ai r > entry In the oil system that induced a very low oil pressure : 1 at low r pm > 2 at 45%. > > I changed the collector this week end and the air p=E9n=E9tration is fixe d yet. > Oil pressure= 5 at 45% > > However I notice that the oil press indicator oscillating quickly: not > stable > > Is that normal? Is there some air In the oil circuit or Is that a > reliability problem with the indicator? > > Thanks > > Olivier > > > Le 17 avr. 2011 =E0 11:46, "philg" a =E9cr it : > > > > > Paul, I have been trialling a LED light and reflector obtained on ebay > for the tail light, see attached pic. Contact me off list if you want mor e > details on this project. Cheers, Phil Gower. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337188#337188 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1270024mod_151.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================= =e ties Day > ======================== ======================== - MATRONICS > WEB FORUMS ==================== === - > List Contribution Web Site sp; > ======================== = > > * > > ======================== > ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Yak-List > ======================== ===========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics .com > ======================== ===========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt p://www.matronics.com/contribution > ======================== > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Clifford Coy Border Air Ltd. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 802-868-2822 TEL 802-868-4465 FAX Skype: Cliff.Coy ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Well, I was reading all the responses and pretty much figured this was a dead issue, but then I read a little more and decided to comment. Relays are by and large VERY reliable. Especially if you take the time to purchase a good one that is milspec rated and sealed. These type of relays have been known to operate for 50 years without failing. If a person was really concerned about this, they would stick an ammeter in line with the wire going to the starting solenoid and see exactly what current it draws. In any case, SWITCHES on the other hand, especially "micro-switches" fail ALL the time. The mechanical loads and stresses on a switch are much more unpredictable and as such... they fail. If a control micro-switch is too small, the normal design premise is to then use a relay that is rated at least twice load factor. Using the premise that a relay just adds "one more thing to go wrong" may sound logical, but the fact is that reality does not support that viewpoint when it comes to relays. When using a small micro-switch and a relay, wiring from the control micro-switch can be very small ... 22 gage or so... and it then runs to a logical place where a relay would be located... and with YAK aircraft, that would be in the "relay box" where all the OTHER relays are located for this aircraft. From there to the Air-Starting Solenoid is a very short run. So with a relay in the relay box, the install is dead simple. The cockpit switch right now goes to the Air Start Solenoid. That wire will just now be taken off the air start solenoid and routed to the relay normally COMMON contact. The NORMALLY CLOSED CONTACT on the relay will have a wire hooked to it that runs BACK into the aircraft control panel and connects to any BIG RED LIGHT that you can put in there. The NORMALLY OPEN contact on the relay will go back to the air start solenoid. The same wire from the start push-button will ALSO connect to one side of the RELAY COIL. The OTHER side of the RELAY COIL will run to the new micro-switch on the new OIL VALVE. This switch should CLOSE when the valve is OPEN, thus completing the circuit and ENERGIZING the relay when you OPEN the valve. How does it work? When you get in the aircraft and attempt to start the thing with the oil valve closed, the start solenoid will not operate and instead a BIG RED LIGHT will come on any time you push the start button. When you OPEN the oil valve, the engine will start normally and the red light will be disabled. Lastly, you put a switch mounted to the exterior of the relay compartment that has guard over it. When you OPEN the guard and FLIP the switch up, you BY-PASS the safety interlock system and the aircraft reverts to normal starting operation. This allows you to start if anything like the control switch quits. Relays are good things. When designing aircraft circuits with new ideas, their use should be encouraged and not the other way around. The important thing is USING THE RIGHT ONE. Mark Bitterlich Naval Air Technical Data & Engineering Service Command EA-6B Prowler Electronic Warfare Weapons System Integrator MCAS Cherry Point, N.C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Yeah, despite the name "micro" those switched are often used to switch 110 or 220 AC at several amps. Since a relay would add a failure mode, I wouldn't add one unless the contact rating won't allow for it with some margin. On Apr 15, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Tom Elliott wrote: I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No problems remember that you are not opening or closing This switch under load. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 777 Quartz Ave PMB 7004 Sandy Valley NV 89019 Cell 702-595-2680 From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics =======================http://www.matronics.com/c =============== ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / 04/14/11 style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:49 AM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Actually, the micro-switch alone PROBABLY would have worked. I doubt the solenoid relay coil draws more than about 500 mils or so. The way that valve is designed, it uses the actual air pressure itself to make it work. The solenoid basically just opens a port which in turn opens the main valve. As I mentioned, I would use a small relay, because I also want a light in the cockpit, and a relay expands the design capability tremendously. Being a person that can make mistakes.... I want the best warning system possible to let me know I am attempting to start an aircraft with the oil supply turned OFF. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:56 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Point, MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and cheers, Chris. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil press indicator : unstable From: Olivier Vigneron ok thanks! 2011/4/18 Cliff Coy > *It's appears you have an electrical **issue** with the aircraft as all o f > the powered gauges are oscillating at the same frequency. > > Check your charging system first- bad diode in alternator, or current > reversal in the generator. > > Cheers, > Cliff > * > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 18:01, ssssskippy wrote: > >> Thanks for the answer. >> You can see the shaky moove of the indicator at the beginning of this >> video: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f6TfU5T8dY&feature=youtube_gdata_pla yer >> >> Olivier >> >> >> Le 17 avr. 2011 =E0 23:45, KingCJ6@aol.com a =E9crit : >> >> If it is moving quickly, it may be a bad connection or sending unit. C heck >> the cannon plugs and try to swap front-to-rear sending units to isolate. >> >> >> >> Dave >> >> In a message dated 4/17/2011 10:38:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> ssssskippy@gmail.com writes: >> >> >> Hi >> >> I had a problem with my oil collector that was broken. So there was an a ir >> entry In the oil system that induced a very low oil pressure : 1 at low rpm >> 2 at 45%. >> >> I changed the collector this week end and the air p=E9n=E9tration is fix ed >> yet. Oil pressure= 5 at 45% >> >> However I notice that the oil press indicator oscillating quickly: not >> stable >> >> Is that normal? Is there some air In the oil circuit or Is that a >> reliability problem with the indicator? >> >> Thanks >> >> Olivier >> >> >> Le 17 avr. 2011 =E0 11:46, "philg" a =E9c rit : >> >> > >> > Paul, I have been trialling a LED light and reflector obtained on ebay >> for the tail light, see attached pic. Contact me off list if you want mo re >> details on this project. Cheers, Phil Gower. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337188#337188 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Attachments: >> > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1270024mod_151.jpg >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ======================= =e ties Day ==================== == >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================ ======= - List >> Contribution Web Site sp; >> >> * >> >> ========= >> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Yak-List >> ==========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics .com >> ==========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt p://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========= >> * >> >> * >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Clifford Coy > Border Air Ltd. > 629 Airport Rd. > Swanton, VT 05488 > 802-868-2822 TEL > 802-868-4465 FAX > Skype: Cliff.Coy > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Program Letter From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" DARN GOOD ADVICE! -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Hill Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter When I first got my CJ, one of the local CJ gurus told me to anticipate getting ramp checked at every event attended. Told me to have a plastic folder in the aft cockpit that contained: Copy of license and current medical. Copy from logbook: Last BFR, last annual, warbird FFA inspection logbook entry. Phase 2 operating limitations. Current insurance info. Picture of expiratory date tag(s) of parachute(s). Program letter for current year. Registration & special airworthiness certificate. Copy of FAST card, if you have one. Warren On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:02 PM, George Coy wrote: > > The game depends on the vintage of your program letter. In the 300NM > "Proficiency" days you did not need a program letter unless you were going > outside the 300 NM. I got "RAMPED" 280 NM from home one day and showed the > OPs limits and that was that. No Problem. (also no letter that year) > Also you guys should understand that every FSDO and even inspectors > within a FSDO have different interpretations of what is required. Best to > know your FSDO guy and discuss with him/her what you should do and have him > ready to back you up if needed when some other FSDO guy says differently. > > Un officially I will tell you that my FSDO guys pretty much just discarded > my letters after they received them. As you are not REQUIRED to carry a copy > of the letter with you when traveling, then it leaves a lot of room for > "interpretation" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G > CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:31 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Program Letter > Point, > MALS-14 64E" > > They will not accept a program letter with nothing on it. > > They will also not accept a program letter with EVERYTHING on it. > > They will not accept NO program letter since your Operating Limitations > says you must turn one in. > > In my mind, this is a kind of game.... and I have been through a lot of > games like this, since I work for the Govt. too. > > Here is the bottom line: > > The FAA has guidelines and requirements that they must follow. > > Some of these impact us as Experimental Exhibition owners. > > Logic and reason have nothing to do with this... so don't go there. > > Figure out.. .and if necessary ASK THEM just what it is they require and > just do it. You lose NOTHING by going along with the game. > > It is tempting to get into a verbal fight with these people. Believe > me... BELIEVE ME... I know that myself. > > Here's the plus: I met one gentlemen locally at my FISDO that I > respect, and who I believe is being totally honest with me. If you can > find a person like I have, you are really in luck. I can TALK to this > guy. And I honestly believe he has my best interests in mind. So I > asked him. He told me. I did what he told me to do. All seems to be > well. > > I suggest this course of action to all. "Low Profile" is exactly right. > > > Mark Bitterlich > > > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis > Savarese > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:10 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Program Letter > > > > So which would you prefer to do? Not turn in any program letter for the > > year because you don't have any planned events/activities and get asked > by some inspector, "can you show me your Program Letter please", or > carry one with you that says "No EVENTS scheduled". Personally, I'll > carry one that says "no events scheduled". > > I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Everyone reading this can make > their own decision as to whether they want to submit and carry a copy of > > a Program Letter or not, regardless of whether there are planned > activities (events scheduled) or not. I believe in maintaining a low > profile when it comes to the FAA. > > Dennis > > On 4/14/2011 9:07 AM, okanoganlew@gmail.com wrote: >> Dennis, the OL states you must report activity for the year. It does > not >> say that you must report non activity. >> >> Paul >> >> On Apr 13, 2011 6:48pm, "A. Dennis Savarese" >> wrote: >> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> FSDO's/FSDO inspectors can not verbally override an aircraft's > OL's. >> The OL's always take precedent. >>> >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2011 8:31 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Kregg > Victorykregg@balancemyprop.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I guess fisdo's can be a little different >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Samsung Epic(tm) 4G >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "A. Dennis Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis >> Savarese"dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Even if the airplane is not going to fly, a Program Letter must be >>> >>> >>> submitted and can state "No events scheduled for 20xx". This > fulfills >>> >>> >>> the OL's requirements. Should the airplane fly and then need to > attend >>> >>> >>> an event, it can be submitted as an amendment to the Program Letter > by >>> >>> >>> FAX to the FSDO. >>> >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2011 7:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" >>> >>> >>> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kregg, the operating limitations state what must be done and I'm > pretty >>> >>> >>> certain like most operating limitations, say a Program letter must > be >>> >>> >>> submitted each year. Here is the wording from FAA Order 8130.2(x). > Page >>> >>> >>> 178. (37) The owner/operator of this aircraft must submit an annual >>> >>> >>> program letter update to the local FSDO that lists airshows, > fly-ins, >>> >>> >>> etc., that will be attended during the next year, commencing at >>> >>> >>> the time this aircraft is released into phase II operation. This > list of >>> >>> >>> events may be amended, as applicable, by letter or fax to the FSDO > prior >>> >>> >>> to the intended operation amendments. A copy of the highlighted >>> >>> >>> aeronautical chart, when applicable, must be carried aboard this >>> >>> >>> aircraft and be available to the pilot. >>> >>> >>> (Applicability: All) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2011 7:13 PM, Kregg Victory wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg > Victory"kregg@balancemyprop.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> No you are not required to send the letter for a year you didn't > fly the >>> >>> >>> plane. They are only good for one year at a time anyway >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kregg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Victory Aero LLC >>> >>> >>> 2502 John Montgomery Dr. >>> >>> >>> San Jose, CA 95148 >>> >>> >>> 408-836-5122 >>> >>> >>> www.balancemyprop.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >>> >>> >>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan > Lew >>> >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:58 PM >>> >>> >>> To: yak-list@matronics.com >>> >>> >>> Subject: Yak-List: Program Letter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Okanogan > Lew"vplewis@community.org> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys, I sent an e mail to my FSDO saying that I would be flying to >>> >>> >>> Porterville with the dates& reason. They said I was good to go,& >> then I >>> >>> >>> received another e mail saying that they had no record of previous >>> >>> >>> Program >>> >>> >>> Letters& would I please send them one. Since I did not go anywhere > in >>> >>> >>> 2010, I sent them a copy of my 2009 letter. They wrote back& said > the >>> >>> >>> 2009 >>> >>> >>> letter was invalid& they wanted one from 2010. Are we required to >> send a >>> >>> >>> letter even if the airplane sits in a hanger for the year& no >> flights are >>> >>> >>> planned? Also, is the letter only for flights outside the 300 mile >> limit, >>> >>> >>> or all fly-in, exhibitions, etc? Any comments or experiences? > Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul Lewis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336872#336872 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil press indicator : unstable From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" A quick check to see if the charging system is at fault is to simply turn it off and run the aircraft on batteries alone and see what happens. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Olivier Vigneron Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil press indicator : unstable ok thanks! 2011/4/18 Cliff Coy It's appears you have an electrical issue with the aircraft as all of the powered gauges are oscillating at the same frequency. Check your charging system first- bad diode in alternator, or current reversal in the generator. Cheers, Cliff On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 18:01, ssssskippy wrote: Thanks for the answer. You can see the shaky moove of the indicator at the beginning of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f6TfU5T8dY&feature=youtube_gdata_player Olivier Le 17 avr. 2011 23:45, KingCJ6@aol.com a crit : If it is moving quickly, it may be a bad connection or sending unit. Check the cannon plugs and try to swap front-to-rear sending units to isolate. Dave In a message dated 4/17/2011 10:38:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ssssskippy@gmail.com writes: Hi I had a problem with my oil collector that was broken. So there was an air entry In the oil system that induced a very low oil pressure : 1 at low rpm 2 at 45%. I changed the collector this week end and the air pntration is fixed yet. Oil pressure= 5 at 45% However I notice that the oil press indicator oscillating quickly: not stable Is that normal? Is there some air In the oil circuit or Is that a reliability problem with the indicator? Thanks Olivier Le 17 avr. 2011 11:46, "philg" a crit : > > Paul, I have been trialling a LED light and reflector obtained on ebay for the tail light, see attached pic. Contact me off list if you want more details on this project. Cheers, Phil Gower. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337188#337188 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1270024mod_151.jpg > > > > > > > ========================e ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp; ========= ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Clifford Coy Border Air Ltd. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 802-868-2822 TEL 802-868-4465 FAX Skype: Cliff.Coy et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:01 PM PST US From: Thomas Geoghegan Subject: Yak-List: Gear not coming up Today when I talk my CJ for a flight I was unable to raise the gear. I got a short hissing sound and the right gear raised a little ( 1 line on the barber pole). I tried to cycle gear, no luck. Any suggestions on what to look at? I had 38 kg/cm2. Thanks, Tommy ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:32 PM PST US From: "Chris Wise" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, A well posted article. I also figured it to be a dead issue, but sound discussion is always a good thing. Background. I have been involved with electrics all my working life and occasionally still am. I have designed and supervised the switch boards for automated production lines whereby all interlocked and so on using contactors/relays so that if something jammed or went wrong the whole line stopped and had to be restarted in sequence every time. I was "the man" in charge of the winders on some gold mines in South Africa, both man hoists and the automated ore hoists. So relays are no strangers to me. There is no doubt at all that what you describe is far more fail safe than simply wiring thru the micro switch. Load wise. The obvious 1st step is to measure the Amps carried by the wire from the ignition circuit breaker when the start button is engaged. Now it is obvious that there are many shut off valve installations that have the ignition wire routed thru the micro switch which to date have not had any hang-ups with the system. Remember that Tom Elliot posted the article about his CJ operating for many years with this system and he rightfully points out that there is no switching load. If there was a switching load, direct current at that, the arc across such a low amp rated micro switch would have a internal haemorrhage in no time at all. So I think that the to operate the system as is seems to be reliable so far, but for my peace of mind I am going to replace the Micro Switch with a 15A switch. Bear in mind that my original idea was to use a aircraft continues rated solenoid valve as you have pointed out. I have in fact ordered and paid for 2. So valve closed, no start circuit and red light on, valve open, start circuit and green light on. Mark, I think that we are very fortunate to have this site whereby so much dammed good input and feedback exists. Cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2011 12:54 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. MALS-14 64E" Well, I was reading all the responses and pretty much figured this was a dead issue, but then I read a little more and decided to comment. Relays are by and large VERY reliable. Especially if you take the time to purchase a good one that is milspec rated and sealed. These type of relays have been known to operate for 50 years without failing. If a person was really concerned about this, they would stick an ammeter in line with the wire going to the starting solenoid and see exactly what current it draws. In any case, SWITCHES on the other hand, especially "micro-switches" fail ALL the time. The mechanical loads and stresses on a switch are much more unpredictable and as such... they fail. If a control micro-switch is too small, the normal design premise is to then use a relay that is rated at least twice load factor. Using the premise that a relay just adds "one more thing to go wrong" may sound logical, but the fact is that reality does not support that viewpoint when it comes to relays. When using a small micro-switch and a relay, wiring from the control micro-switch can be very small ... 22 gage or so... and it then runs to a logical place where a relay would be located... and with YAK aircraft, that would be in the "relay box" where all the OTHER relays are located for this aircraft. From there to the Air-Starting Solenoid is a very short run. So with a relay in the relay box, the install is dead simple. The cockpit switch right now goes to the Air Start Solenoid. That wire will just now be taken off the air start solenoid and routed to the relay normally COMMON contact. The NORMALLY CLOSED CONTACT on the relay will have a wire hooked to it that runs BACK into the aircraft control panel and connects to any BIG RED LIGHT that you can put in there. The NORMALLY OPEN contact on the relay will go back to the air start solenoid. The same wire from the start push-button will ALSO connect to one side of the RELAY COIL. The OTHER side of the RELAY COIL will run to the new micro-switch on the new OIL VALVE. This switch should CLOSE when the valve is OPEN, thus completing the circuit and ENERGIZING the relay when you OPEN the valve. How does it work? When you get in the aircraft and attempt to start the thing with the oil valve closed, the start solenoid will not operate and instead a BIG RED LIGHT will come on any time you push the start button. When you OPEN the oil valve, the engine will start normally and the red light will be disabled. Lastly, you put a switch mounted to the exterior of the relay compartment that has guard over it. When you OPEN the guard and FLIP the switch up, you BY-PASS the safety interlock system and the aircraft reverts to normal starting operation. This allows you to start if anything like the control switch quits. Relays are good things. When designing aircraft circuits with new ideas, their use should be encouraged and not the other way around. The important thing is USING THE RIGHT ONE. Mark Bitterlich Naval Air Technical Data & Engineering Service Command EA-6B Prowler Electronic Warfare Weapons System Integrator MCAS Cherry Point, N.C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Yeah, despite the name "micro" those switched are often used to switch 110 or 220 AC at several amps. Since a relay would add a failure mode, I wouldn't add one unless the contact rating won't allow for it with some margin. On Apr 15, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Tom Elliott wrote: I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No problems remember that you are not opening or closing This switch under load. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 777 Quartz Ave PMB 7004 Sandy Valley NV 89019 Cell 702-595-2680 From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day Mark, Thanks for that. Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays for My 18T another 18T and a 52. I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit thru the micro switch in a simple manner. I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating for the micro switch would handle the load. Thanks and cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Chris, Use a relay. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve. G'Day, Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve would indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru the micro switch as the current rating seems to be too low. Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off valve and micro switch for a 52 and 18T? Thanks and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics =======================http://www.matronics.com/c =============== ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / 04/14/11 style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:48 PM PST US From: "Gill Gutierrez" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gear not coming up Tommy, Yes, it is one or more of the shuttle valves that isolate the emergency air from the regular. What is happening is that regular system air is leaking past the shuttle valve and back pressuring the emergency air side so that gear is locked down as would be the case when you intentionally use the emergency air. Means you have to repair or replace one or all of your shuttle valves. The problem can sometimes be intermittent. So you can test this by releasing pressure on the emergency side by loosening the b-nut on the landing gear shuttle valve. Personally, I went through that process and ultimately installed a 4 way valve which continuously bleeds the emergency side pressure and haven't had the problem since. Gill -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Geoghegan Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Yak-List: Gear not coming up Today when I talk my CJ for a flight I was unable to raise the gear. I got a short hissing sound and the right gear raised a little ( 1 line on the barber pole). I tried to cycle gear, no luck. Any suggestions on what to look at? I had 38 kg/cm2. Thanks, Tommy ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:37 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear not coming up You will need to put the airplane on jacks to cycle the gear. Does the emergency air hold pressure or does it leak down and if so, how much does it typically leak down over 1 day, 2 days, 3 days etc? The reason for this question will be obvious in the 3rd paragraph. You very well could have a leaking main gear actuator. On the jacks you should be able to hear it hissing when you turn on the main air and move the gear selector to the UP position. There may also be an audible leak with the gear down. If you have air leaking out of the front gear selector, don't immediately assume it is the gear selector. It again could very well be a leaking actuator. Here's a test you can do. First make sure both the main and emergency air valves are securely turned off. Now bleed the system down by squeezing the brake handle until you don't hear any more "hissing" when you release the brake handle. Now, with the airplane on the jacks, turn on the main air valve and immediately cycle the gear. If the gear retracts normally, you have a leak from the emergency side to the main side through a check valve which moves the shuttle valves on the actuators blocking the main side from functioning. Obtain a schematic and start disconnecting B nuts on the firewall where the emergency and main systems come together. Make up a bottle of soapy water to spray on lines you open on check valves. Watch for bubbles where there isn't suppose to be any. Contact me off list and tell me what you've done and we'll work through it. Dennis On 4/18/2011 4:51 PM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: Thomas Geoghegan > > Today when I talk my CJ for a flight I was unable to raise the gear. I got a short hissing sound and the right gear raised a little ( 1 line on the barber pole). I tried to cycle gear, no luck. Any suggestions on what to look at? I had 38 kg/cm2. > > Thanks, > Tommy > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:28 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Gear not coming up From: "Joe Enzminger" I would suggest a quick check of the rear cockpit gear handle. If it has been bumped "down", or even partially down, it can prevent the gear from retracting when you select up in the front cockpit. Something simple to check before you start removing check valves, etc. Joe 700YK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337444#337444 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.