Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: Gear not coming up (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 08:04 AM - Re: Fine bubbles in oil? (Pete Fowler)
3. 10:00 AM - Re: Oil shut off valve. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Gear not coming up |
Ahh...what a great suggestion Joe. Good job. That completely slipped
my mind.
Dennis
On 4/18/2011 11:15 PM, Joe Enzminger wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Joe Enzminger"<panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com>
>
> I would suggest a quick check of the rear cockpit gear handle. If it has been
bumped "down", or even partially down, it can prevent the gear from retracting
when you select up in the front cockpit.
>
> Something simple to check before you start removing check valves, etc.
>
> Joe
> 700YK
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337444#337444
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fine bubbles in oil? |
Looks like this was caused by blow-by from the freshly honed cylinder breaking-in.
It's diminishing as I fly it more and the oil pressure is always good.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337494#337494
Message 3
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| Subject: | Oil shut off valve. |
Of course Chris. I think there is an EXTREMELY high probability that
your design will work perfectly... pretty much for the life of the
aircraft. The current draw for the starting solenoid is minimal. Your
design is way over-kill, which is a good thing.
I do like warning lights though.... a lot. :-)
Understood on your experience(s). Pretty darn impressive!
Thanks for the kind words. My posting was primarily intended to dispel
any bad feelings about "relays" in general. Obviously you did not need
the advice! But possibly others might... which is why I pounded on the
keyboard for awhile.
Best regards, and SMART MOVE PUTTING IN THE VALVE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
I've been doing some research on M-14 engine damage.. the kind that
bites you in the rear "down the road". In my research to date, the
biggest snake in the grass is a hydraulic lock, and your install will go
a long way towards eliminating that with this engine.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve.
G'Day Mark,
A well posted article. I also figured it to be a dead issue, but sound
discussion is always a good thing.
Background. I have been involved with electrics all my working life and
occasionally still am.
I have designed and supervised the switch boards for automated
production
lines whereby all interlocked and so on using contactors/relays so that
if
something jammed or went wrong the whole line stopped and had to be
restarted in sequence every time.
I was "the man" in charge of the winders on some gold mines in South
Africa,
both man hoists and the automated ore hoists.
So relays are no strangers to me.
There is no doubt at all that what you describe is far more fail safe
than
simply wiring thru the micro switch. Load wise.
The obvious 1st step is to measure the Amps carried by the wire from the
ignition circuit breaker when the start button is engaged.
Now it is obvious that there are many shut off valve installations that
have
the ignition wire routed thru the micro switch which to date have not
had
any hang-ups with the system.
Remember that Tom Elliot posted the article about his CJ operating for
many
years with this system and he rightfully points out that there is no
switching load.
If there was a switching load, direct current at that, the arc across
such a
low amp rated micro switch would have a internal haemorrhage in no time
at
all.
So I think that the to operate the system as is seems to be reliable so
far,
but for my peace of mind I am going to replace the Micro Switch with a
15A
switch.
Bear in mind that my original idea was to use a aircraft continues rated
solenoid valve as you have pointed out. I have in fact ordered and paid
for
2.
So valve closed, no start circuit and red light on, valve open, start
circuit and green light on.
Mark, I think that we are very fortunate to have this site whereby so
much
dammed good input and feedback exists.
Cheers,
Chris.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2011 12:54 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve.
Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Well, I was reading all the responses and pretty much figured this was a
dead issue, but then I read a little more and decided to comment.
Relays are by and large VERY reliable. Especially if you take the time
to purchase a good one that is milspec rated and sealed. These type of
relays have been known to operate for 50 years without failing.
If a person was really concerned about this, they would stick an ammeter
in line with the wire going to the starting solenoid and see exactly
what current it draws.
In any case, SWITCHES on the other hand, especially "micro-switches"
fail ALL the time. The mechanical loads and stresses on a switch are
much more unpredictable and as such... they fail.
If a control micro-switch is too small, the normal design premise is to
then use a relay that is rated at least twice load factor. Using the
premise that a relay just adds "one more thing to go wrong" may sound
logical, but the fact is that reality does not support that viewpoint
when it comes to relays. When using a small micro-switch and a relay,
wiring from the control micro-switch can be very small ... 22 gage or
so... and it then runs to a logical place where a relay would be
located... and with YAK aircraft, that would be in the "relay box" where
all the OTHER relays are located for this aircraft. From there to the
Air-Starting Solenoid is a very short run. So with a relay in the relay
box, the install is dead simple.
The cockpit switch right now goes to the Air Start Solenoid. That wire
will just now be taken off the air start solenoid and routed to the
relay normally COMMON contact. The NORMALLY CLOSED CONTACT on the relay
will have a wire hooked to it that runs BACK into the aircraft control
panel and connects to any BIG RED LIGHT that you can put in there.
The NORMALLY OPEN contact on the relay will go back to the air start
solenoid.
The same wire from the start push-button will ALSO connect to one side
of the RELAY COIL.
The OTHER side of the RELAY COIL will run to the new micro-switch on the
new OIL VALVE. This switch should CLOSE when the valve is OPEN, thus
completing the circuit and ENERGIZING the relay when you OPEN the valve.
How does it work?
When you get in the aircraft and attempt to start the thing with the oil
valve closed, the start solenoid will not operate and instead a BIG RED
LIGHT will come on any time you push the start button.
When you OPEN the oil valve, the engine will start normally and the red
light will be disabled.
Lastly, you put a switch mounted to the exterior of the relay
compartment that has guard over it. When you OPEN the guard and FLIP
the switch up, you BY-PASS the safety interlock system and the aircraft
reverts to normal starting operation. This allows you to start if
anything like the control switch quits.
Relays are good things. When designing aircraft circuits with new
ideas, their use should be encouraged and not the other way around. The
important thing is USING THE RIGHT ONE.
Mark Bitterlich
Naval Air Technical Data & Engineering Service Command
EA-6B Prowler Electronic Warfare Weapons System Integrator
MCAS Cherry Point, N.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wobschall
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve.
Yeah, despite the name "micro" those switched are often used to switch
110 or 220 AC at several amps. Since a relay would add a failure mode, I
wouldn't add one unless the contact rating won't allow for it with some
margin.
On Apr 15, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:
I have been using a micro-switch for 8 plus years on a CJ. No
problems remember that you are not opening or closing
This switch under load.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 702-595-2680
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 4:56 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve.
G'Day Mark,
Thanks for that.
Yeah, I have already ordered 3 continuous rated 24Volt relays
for My 18T
another 18T and a 52.
I thought that there may be a way to direct the starter circuit
thru the
micro switch in a simple manner.
I could not find a way as I do not think that the current rating
for the
micro switch would handle the load.
Thanks and cheers,
Chris.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2011 4:21 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve.
Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Chris,
Use a relay.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Wise
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Oil shut off valve.
G'Day,
Looking at the micro switch on the Kimball oil shut off valve
would
indicate that the starter button circuit cannot be wired thru
the micro
switch as the current rating seems to be too low.
Can anyone provide a wiring diagram to incorporate the shut off
valve
and micro switch for a 52 and 18T?
Thanks and
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