Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:36 AM - Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides (Robert de Vries)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Andrew Love)
3. 04:49 AM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Herb Coussons)
4. 04:52 AM - Spinning in the '52 (Richard Goode)
5. 04:57 AM - Tail-slides etc (Richard Goode)
6. 05:57 AM - Fw: Latest Cocktail Rage (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 07:12 AM - Re: Tail-slides etc (Roger Kemp M.D.)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (keithmckinley)
9. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Spinning in the '52 (Roger Kemp M.D.)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: Tailslides (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 01:39 PM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Andrew Love)
12. 06:05 PM - Re: Yak52 electrical failure (aero49)
13. 06:17 PM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Bill Geipel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides |
Gent's
Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual
issue 2002
Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training
with experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and
Genna Elfimov, Mark Jefferies etc etc.
I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 , also on
many airshows.
Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not
allow to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
That may lead to bob weight failure, hinge fail and more shit.
Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason
(other reasons: yes)
So: No problem.
If in doubt: do not perform; like all acro you are not trained in and
not familiar with, seek expert help with ON TYPE experience, lots of it,
verifiable, well know by rest of community.
Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience
does not qualify. period.
Take care, fly carefully.
And even then................
We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final
reports on this.
Please do not speculate, leave it here.
Cheers,
Robert
www.redyak.nl
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 95 of 95
Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted
flight .
Pendulum from normal flight , forward fall First of all the pilot sets
the engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
At 260 km/h airspeed , he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on
vertical path) , stabilizes it , and maintains this angle exactly .
ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 96 of 95
The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings
projection on the skyline .
When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus
horizon is controlled , the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently
, so when the airplane is =93hung up=94 the admission pressure is
reduced completely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
At 45-50 km/h , the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50
maximum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =930=94 (in
the hung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane
doesn=92t react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the
neutral position .
The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small
effort , because when the airplane falls on its tail , the control
surfaces are subjected to important overloadings .
After the nose fall and the passing in dive , the pilot pushes the stick
up to the neutral position ,
increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the
recovery from dive in horizontal flight .
Pendulum from normal flight , =93on back=94 fall
For the performance of this figure , unlike that of the pendulum with
forward fall , the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h
and increases the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the
airplane is hung up (at almost 0 speed ) , he pushes the stick
completely . After the =93on back=94 fall and the lapse in dive , he
brings the stick in the neutral position , increases the admission
pressure and drives the airplane out in horizontal flight at the
required speed .
Pendulum from inverted flight
The entry speed ' 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to
that of pendulum from normal flight .
Inverted spinning
This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height
minimum . In horizontal flight condition , at 170 km/h airspeed and 82%
engine speed , the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
When the speed is 180 km/h , he performs a halfrolling and brings the
airplane in inverted horizontal flight .
He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=92t allow the
airplane to rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight
until the airspeed is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently
and completely on the desired sense , pushes the stick and initiates the
spinning . During the inverted spinning , the control surfaces must be
kept in their position from the entry .
The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin , at 300 before
reaching at the control point , the pilot actuates the rudder pads
contrary to the rotation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral
position.
As soon as the rotation ceased , he brings the rudder pads in the
neutral position and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Spinning in the '52 |
Hi all=2C
On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Has
anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating in
the yak 52=2C ie: accelerated positive=2C inverted and inverted accelerated
etc etc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52=2C I was given bas
ic spin training (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Alph
a previously - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too)=2C but
never ventured into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to do
so at the time.
should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen videos
of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins=2C didn't
find out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
In aircraft like the Pitts=2C I refuse to sign a rating off until I have ha
d the time to work through a full spin training course with the student in
question.
regards=2C
Andrew Love
AWL Air Services
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
From: rob@redyak.demon.nl
Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
Gent's
Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual issue
2002
Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training with
experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genna
Elfimov=2C Mark Jefferies etc etc.
I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 =2C also on ma
ny airshows.
Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not allow
to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
That may lead to bob weight failure=2C hinge fail and more shit.
Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (othe
r reasons: yes)
So: No problem.
If in doubt: do not perform=3B like all acro you are not trained in and not
familiar with=2C seek expert help with ON TYPE experience=2C lots of it=2C
verifiable=2C well know by rest of community.
Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience does
not qualify. period.
Take care=2C fly carefully.
And even then................
We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final repo
rts on this.
Please do not speculate=2C leave it here.
Cheers=2C
Robert
www.redyak.nl
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 95 of 95
Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted flig
ht .
Pendulum from normal flight =2C forward fall First of all the pilot sets th
e engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
At 260 km/h airspeed =2C he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertical
path) =2C stabilizes it =2C and maintains this angle exactly .
ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 96 of 95
The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection o
n the skyline .
When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus ho
rizon is controlled =2C the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently =2C
so when the airplane is =93hung up=94 the admission pressure is reduced co
mpletely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
At 45-50 km/h =2C the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50 ma
ximum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =930=94 (in the h
ung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane doesn=92t
react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutral position .
The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effort
=2C because when the airplane falls on its tail =2C the control surfaces ar
e subjected to important overloadings .
After the nose fall and the passing in dive =2C the pilot pushes the stick
up to the neutral position =2C
increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the reco
very from dive in horizontal flight .
Pendulum from normal flight =2C =93on back=94 fall
For the performance of this figure =2C unlike that of the pendulum with for
ward fall =2C the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and in
creases the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is hu
ng up (at almost 0 speed ) =2C he pushes the stick completely . After the
=93on back=94 fall and the lapse in dive =2C he brings the stick in the neu
tral position =2C increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane
out in horizontal flight at the required speed .
Pendulum from inverted flight
The entry speed ' 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to th
at of pendulum from normal flight .
Inverted spinning
This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height minimu
m . In horizontal flight condition =2C at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engine
speed =2C the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
When the speed is 180 km/h =2C he performs a halfrolling and brings the air
plane in inverted horizontal flight .
He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=92t allow the airplane t
o rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the airspee
d is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely on t
he desired sense =2C pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During t
he inverted spinning =2C the control surfaces must be kept in their positio
n from the entry .
The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin =2C at 300 before reaching
at the control point =2C the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to th
e rotation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
As soon as the rotation ceased =2C he brings the rudder pads in the neutral
position and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Spinning in the '52 |
There was no real initial course when I started flying the yak like the insu
rance requires now. I did seek out Sergei and did spin training as part of t
he aerobatic work with him. 6 years ago upright with and without power, flat
. Then 3 years ago inverted. We have worked on snaps also and I have explore
d accelerated spins on my own. I also make an effort to take the flight inst
ructors in the area flying and I enjoy showing them spins and unusual attitu
des as many of them have never done this. I like to show them accelerated st
alls. Not one has recognized it.
I think the other situation you are describing is crossover spins. I have tr
ied to force thes in the yak 52 and it does not really want to do them. The 5
5 was very smooth to go from upright right spin, stick back neutral and righ
t rudder, to inverted left with forward neutral stick and left rudder.
Sent from DrC on the iPhone
On May 5, 2011, at 6:23 AM, Andrew Love <torque_roll@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Has
anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating in t
he yak 52, ie: accelerated positive, inverted and inverted accelerated etc e
tc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52, I was given basic spin t
raining (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Alpha previous
ly - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too), but never venture
d into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to do so at the tim
e.
> should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen videos
of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins, didn't f
ind out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
>
> In aircraft like the Pitts, I refuse to sign a rating off until I have had
the time to work through a full spin training course with the student in qu
estion.
>
> regards,
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AWL Air Services
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: rob@redyak.demon.nl
> Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
> Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:32:28 +0200
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Gent's
> Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual issu
e 2002
> Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
> They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training wit
h experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genna E
lfimov, Mark Jefferies etc etc.
> I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 , also on man
y airshows.
> Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not allo
w to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
> That may lead to bob weight failure, hinge fail and more shit.
> Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (oth
er reasons: yes)
> So: No problem.
> If in doubt: do not perform; like all acro you are not trained in and not f
amiliar with, seek expert help with ON TYPE experience, lots of it, verifiab
le, well know by rest of community.
> Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience doe
s not qualify. period.
> Take care, fly carefully.
> And even then................
> We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
> Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final rep
orts on this.
> Please do not speculate, leave it here.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> www.redyak.nl
>
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 95 of 95
>
> Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted fli
ght .
> Pendulum from normal flight , forward fall First of all the pilot sets the
engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
> At 260 km/h airspeed , he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertical p
ath) , stabilizes it , and maintains this angle exactly .
> ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 96 of 95
> The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection o
n the skyline .
> When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus h
orizon is controlled , the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently , so w
hen the airplane is =9Chung up=9D the admission pressure is redu
ced completely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
> At 45-50 km/h , the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50 max
imum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =9C0=9D
(in the hung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane d
oesn=99t react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutr
al position .
> The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effort
, because when the airplane falls on its tail , the control surfaces are su
bjected to important overloadings .
> After the nose fall and the passing in dive , the pilot pushes the stick u
p to the neutral position ,
> increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the rec
overy from dive in horizontal flight .
> Pendulum from normal flight , =9Con back=9D fall
> For the performance of this figure , unlike that of the pendulum with forw
ard fall , the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and increa
ses the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is hung up
(at almost 0 speed ) , he pushes the stick completely . After the =9C
on back=9D fall and the lapse in dive , he brings the stick in the neu
tral position , increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane out
in horizontal flight at the required speed .
> Pendulum from inverted flight
> The entry speed =93 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is simila
r to that of pendulum from normal flight .
> Inverted spinning
> This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height minim
um . In horizontal flight condition , at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engine sp
eed , the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
> sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
> When the speed is 180 km/h , he performs a halfrolling and brings the airp
lane in inverted horizontal flight .
> He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=99t allow the air
plane to rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the a
irspeed is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely
on the desired sense , pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During
the inverted spinning , the control surfaces must be kept in their position
from the entry .
> The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
> To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin , at 300 before reaching a
t the control point , the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to the rot
ation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
> As soon as the rotation ceased , he brings the rudder pads in the neutral p
osition and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
>
>
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Spinning in the '52 |
For anyone considering spinning in the Yak-52, you MUST have proper
training.
Please read article on: www.russianaeros.com/Yak-52%20spinning.htm
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Love
Sent: 05 May 2011 12:24
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
Hi all,
On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Has
anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating in
the yak 52, ie: accelerated positive, inverted and inverted accelerated etc
etc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52, I was given basic spin
training (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Alpha
previously - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too), but never
ventured into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to do so at
the time.
should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen videos
of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins, didn't
find out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
In aircraft like the Pitts, I refuse to sign a rating off until I have had
the time to work through a full spin training course with the student in
question.
regards,
Andrew Love
AWL Air Services
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
_____
From: rob@redyak.demon.nl
Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
Gent's
Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual issue
2002
Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training with
experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genna
Elfimov, Mark Jefferies etc etc.
I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 , also on many
airshows.
Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not allow
to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
That may lead to bob weight failure, hinge fail and more shit.
Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (other
reasons: yes)
So: No problem.
If in doubt: do not perform; like all acro you are not trained in and not
familiar with, seek expert help with ON TYPE experience, lots of it,
verifiable, well know by rest of community.
Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience does
not qualify. period.
Take care, fly carefully.
And even then................
We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final
reports on this.
Please do not speculate, leave it here.
Cheers,
Robert
www.redyak.nl <http://www.redyak.nl/>
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 95 of 95
Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted
flight .
Pendulum from normal flight , forward fall First of all the pilot sets the
engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
At 260 km/h airspeed , he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertical
path) , stabilizes it , and maintains this angle exactly .
ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 96 of 95
The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection on
the skyline .
When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus
horizon is controlled , the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently , so
when the airplane is "hung up" the admission pressure is reduced completely
(propeller in low pitch condition) .
At 45-50 km/h , the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50
maximum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost "0" (in the hung
up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane doesn't react
to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutral position .
The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effort ,
because when the airplane falls on its tail , the control surfaces are
subjected to important overloadings .
After the nose fall and the passing in dive , the pilot pushes the stick up
to the neutral position ,
increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the
recovery from dive in horizontal flight .
Pendulum from normal flight , "on back" fall
For the performance of this figure , unlike that of the pendulum with
forward fall , the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and
increases the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is
hung up (at almost 0 speed ) , he pushes the stick completely . After the
"on back" fall and the lapse in dive , he brings the stick in the neutral
position , increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane out in
horizontal flight at the required speed .
Pendulum from inverted flight
The entry speed - 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to that
of pendulum from normal flight .
Inverted spinning
This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height minimum
. In horizontal flight condition , at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engine speed
, the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
When the speed is 180 km/h , he performs a halfrolling and brings the
airplane in inverted horizontal flight .
He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn't allow the airplane to
rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the airspeed
is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely on the
desired sense , pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During the
inverted spinning , the control surfaces must be kept in their position from
the entry .
The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin , at 300 before reaching at
the control point , the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to the
rotation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
As soon as the rotation ceased , he brings the rudder pads in the neutral
position and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 5
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Obviously some useful stuff here, but also a lot of hot air!
Tail-slides
Tail-slides are approved in the Yak-52. It was designed as an advanced
level military trainer AND aerobatic aircraft, and was expected to perform a
complete spectrum of manoeuvres, including tail-slides.
BUT, the pilots performing them were doing so in a controlled environment;
were properly instructed before any new manoeuvres were attempted. As such
a tail-slide is a perfectly safe manoeuvre. BUT, IF a 52 tail-slide is
mishandled; the stick released; the controls allowed to slam against their
stops, then serious structural damage CAN occur. In particular there can be
a problem with the elevator balance weight - hence the restriction.
But this is a restriction on inept pilots rather than a failing of the
aircraft.
Flight manuals
Again, it should be remembered that these aircraft were operated in a
totally different environment to that in which they are operated in the West
today. As such there was no flight manual given with each aircraft - indeed
the manuals were treated as a form of 'State Secret' and were not allowed to
be removed from State airfields.
Further, there is no such thing as an 'official' flight manual for the 52.
When researching how flight manuals for the 52 treated the issue of 52
spinning (and spin problems) I found seven different flight manuals and
indeed with differing instructions in different areas. However the
differences were more in what certain manuals left out rather than
contradictions between different manuals.
Approval of modifications
It is incorrect to say that Yakovlev Design Bureau approved the automotive
spark plug conversion or bag tanks. We have worked closely with Yakovlev
for over 20 years, and, as a principle, they will never approve Western
modifications.
We obtained approval for the excellent plug conversion modification by Denis
from EASA (the overall European FAA), and subsequently the UK CAA.
We have been able to obtain YDB approval for long-range tanks in 50 and 52,
but these have been 'wet' additional wing tanks, and done specifically to a
YDB design.
I hope this helps!
Best regards
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fwd: Latest Cocktail Rage |
A new cocktail has become the latest rage. It is called the Gin Laden. It
is two shots and a splash of water.
Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 7
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Thank you Richard and Robert,
I will take my crow now.feathers and all. I will seek out a YAK 52 POH that
is more recent than 1995 since the one I have states tail slides are
prohibited. As I thumb through it, it does not refer to the pendulum either
but then again as I said it is an older translated version. Better yet, I'll
put a line through that entry and add Robert's post to update it.
I stand corrected on the on the spark plug conversion certifying agency as
well as the tanks. I am lucky to live in the US with the experimental show
category thus avoiding all the hand ringing. Can't say much for the rest of
our current state of National Affairs though but this is not the forum for
that anyway.
So the last retching sound you heard was me choking down the last feather of
that black assed crow.
Great airplanes though.the 50 is even better.
Cheers, it is happy hour somewhere in the world right now!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:55 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Tail-slides etc
Obviously some useful stuff here, but also a lot of hot air!
Tail-slides
Tail-slides are approved in the Yak-52. It was designed as an advanced
level military trainer AND aerobatic aircraft, and was expected to perform a
complete spectrum of manoeuvres, including tail-slides.
BUT, the pilots performing them were doing so in a controlled environment;
were properly instructed before any new manoeuvres were attempted. As such
a tail-slide is a perfectly safe manoeuvre. BUT, IF a 52 tail-slide is
mishandled; the stick released; the controls allowed to slam against their
stops, then serious structural damage CAN occur. In particular there can be
a problem with the elevator balance weight - hence the restriction.
But this is a restriction on inept pilots rather than a failing of the
aircraft.
Flight manuals
Again, it should be remembered that these aircraft were operated in a
totally different environment to that in which they are operated in the West
today. As such there was no flight manual given with each aircraft - indeed
the manuals were treated as a form of 'State Secret' and were not allowed to
be removed from State airfields.
Further, there is no such thing as an 'official' flight manual for the 52.
When researching how flight manuals for the 52 treated the issue of 52
spinning (and spin problems) I found seven different flight manuals and
indeed with differing instructions in different areas. However the
differences were more in what certain manuals left out rather than
contradictions between different manuals.
Approval of modifications
It is incorrect to say that Yakovlev Design Bureau approved the automotive
spark plug conversion or bag tanks. We have worked closely with Yakovlev
for over 20 years, and, as a principle, they will never approve Western
modifications.
We obtained approval for the excellent plug conversion modification by Denis
from EASA (the overall European FAA), and subsequently the UK CAA.
We have been able to obtain YDB approval for long-range tanks in 50 and 52,
but these have been 'wet' additional wing tanks, and done specifically to a
YDB design.
I hope this helps!
Best regards
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spinning in the '52 |
here we go again.
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339003#339003
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Spinning in the '52 |
Ahhh...makes one long for the days of MMO. :^)) Ah! Another use...wash down
crow!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of keithmckinley
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:41 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Spinning in the '52
--> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
here we go again.
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339003#339003
Message 10
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Bill, it is very tempting to address your comments, and believe me ...
as everyone knows, I am well prepared to get into a verbal contest with
anyone that wants to take me on, but it just is really
counter-productive in the end.
In case the whole point got thrown out with the trash, my inputs on this
matter have been made in an attempt to HELP owners of these types of
aircraft, not to make a issue of who is right and who is wrong.
Let me demonstrate to a small degree by making this point if I may. If
you take a YAK-52 and establish a 45 degree up line with full power
applied and then at a certain airspeed rapidly take the stick and go
hard left front and full right rudder in exactly the right order, you
can actually make a YAK-52 perform a tumble. This figure is not listed
in any manual I have ever seen for any of the YAK's. It is also rather
hard on motor mounts and the front bearing prop seal on the M-14 motor.
Given these stresses, some folks might consider it to be an unsafe
maneuver. If someone writes an article and some official somewhere in
the world decides to believe it, it could very easily be outlawed.
What I am trying to make a point of is that just because someone,
somewhere, somehow, decides to make a decision like that, does not
necessarily mean it's accurate. More and to the point, such an action
should never be imposed on everyone else on the planet without careful
consideration and may I say: HARD PROOF on the matter at hand.
That said, this whole discussion also focuses on the difference between
what is required under Part 43 of the FAR's and what is required for
Experimental Aircraft. I submit that every Experimental Aircraft owner
(in the USA anyway) should be a member of the EAA. In addition we must
all be ready willing and able to defend any infringement what-so-ever on
the aircraft, and the flying that these aircraft allow us to do, and not
just the ones we happen to enjoy ourselves at the moment.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tailslides
Mark,
I don't dislike it or like it. I don't care what you have to say or
don't have to say.
Have you proof that it is safe? Other than someone's word? Is it not
better to error on the safe side?
I would venture to say that most Yak52 owners are not the hard acro
type.
So like I said go have fun. Just having done a tail slide doesn't mean
it's safe or not.
I think you should go out in your Yak 52 and do it. You do have a yak52
don't you?
It would be easy to own a different type airplane and tell your friends
to get'er done in a yak52.
You are a scary angry guy.
Good luck. I could only aspire to be as good as you. And trust me, I
don't care what acro you do.
Show me where it lists approved maneuvers. Just because it doesn't say
you can't doesn't mean it's approved.
The book doesn't say you need wings, but something's are obvious.
I' not talking to the Waldo Peepers of the world. Just the rest of us.
On May 4, 2011, at 11:43 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> I need to answer your message Bill, and I don't think you are going to
> life it very much..... sorry.
>
> You say: "There must be a reason that so much conversation is
generated
> by this. Why would you want to do this during normal fun flying on a
> clear beautiful day? Unless you have something to prove to yourself.
> Cause No one else will care. "
>
> The conversation is being generated because there is a sense that an
> operating capability of an aircraft is being questioned based on a
> source that is undocumented, with no named author, and I object to
that.
> As to what aerobatic maneuvers I do, or anyone else does, and why they
> do them, that is a personal decision and needs no justification to you
> or anyone else.
>
> You say: "If it says in the manual, don't do it."
>
> Agreed! However, I do not refer to a download from a web site as "A
> MANUAL".
>
> "If you believe something else, have at it. Go by yourself so the
> innocent don't get hurt or run risk of getting hurt."
>
> AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! You can see ALREADY that
> because someone has said: TAIL SLIDES ARE UNSAFE IN A YAK AIRCRAFT,
> that now we have people saying what Bill just said above. It's a done
> deal. It's unsafe. If you do it you're risking your life. And don't
> do it with anyone else in the aircraft!
>
> Not only is this gent saying HE is not going to do it, he is advising
> OTHERS not to do it. That is just wrong.
>
> "It's like paying taxes, the book says do it,"
>
> What BOOK Bill? Have you got a copy handy?
>
> "but there is always someone that pushes the envelope and tries to
avoid
> it. And in the end, a burial at sea."
>
> I guess I will end up buried at Sea then... because I always push the
> envelope which is why I fly a fully aerobatic aircraft. If you don't
> want to, then that's your decision, but since you seem to be
questioning
> mine... I will ask you... why in the world do you own a YAK if all you
> are going to do is fly it straight and level?
>
> Take care,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
> On May 3, 2011, at 11:15 AM, "Roger Kemp M.D."
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> The translated RU pilots' manual states for the novice to avoid them.
>> No insinuation of experience made with this post. Just stating the
>> recommendations made by the guys that had the most experience.
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grayson
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:37 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Tailslides
>>
>>
>> Is there any consensus on doing tailslides in the Yak-52?
>>
>> Grayson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338764#338764
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Spinning in the '52 |
Well there you go then=2C
I must say I never got to an advanced stage with my aerobatic flying in the
'52 (I dont' have a share in one currently). My standards were fairly spor
ts/inter-ish throughout the 18months-2yrs that I flew one. The Pitts on the
otherhand I have got to a relatively advanced stage through flying it more
and having more extensive training at the beginning.
whenever I start flying aeros in something new I like to go back to basics
for a number of hours until happy. Take the Extra for example=2C it is safe
to say I was an embarassment to Walter Extra!
I just never had the confidence to get into advanced akro in the '52 but it
was probably not a silly move to stay clear of all that stuff. Would be ne
at to get back in one with someone who knows what they are doing when I hav
e the opportunity to get involved flying another one...
Enjoying the discussion as always.
cheers=2C
Andrew Love
Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
From: torque_roll@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
Hi all=2C
On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Has
anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating in
the yak 52=2C ie: accelerated positive=2C inverted and inverted accelerated
etc etc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52=2C I was given bas
ic spin training (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Alph
a previously - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too)=2C but
never ventured into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to do
so at the time.
should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen videos
of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins=2C didn't
find out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
In aircraft like the Pitts=2C I refuse to sign a rating off until I have ha
d the time to work through a full spin training course with the student in
question.
regards=2C
Andrew Love
AWL Air Services
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
From: rob@redyak.demon.nl
Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
Gent's
Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual issue
2002
Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training with
experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genna
Elfimov=2C Mark Jefferies etc etc.
I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 =2C also on ma
ny airshows.
Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not allow
to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
That may lead to bob weight failure=2C hinge fail and more shit.
Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (othe
r reasons: yes)
So: No problem.
If in doubt: do not perform=3B like all acro you are not trained in and not
familiar with=2C seek expert help with ON TYPE experience=2C lots of it=2C
verifiable=2C well know by rest of community.
Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience does
not qualify. period.
Take care=2C fly carefully.
And even then................
We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final repo
rts on this.
Please do not speculate=2C leave it here.
Cheers=2C
Robert
www.redyak.nl
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 95 of 95
Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted flig
ht .
Pendulum from normal flight =2C forward fall First of all the pilot sets th
e engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
At 260 km/h airspeed =2C he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertical
path) =2C stabilizes it =2C and maintains this angle exactly .
ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 96 of 95
The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection o
n the skyline .
When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus ho
rizon is controlled =2C the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently =2C
so when the airplane is =93hung up=94 the admission pressure is reduced co
mpletely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
At 45-50 km/h =2C the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50 ma
ximum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =930=94 (in the h
ung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane doesn=92t
react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutral position .
The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effort
=2C because when the airplane falls on its tail =2C the control surfaces ar
e subjected to important overloadings .
After the nose fall and the passing in dive =2C the pilot pushes the stick
up to the neutral position =2C
increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the reco
very from dive in horizontal flight .
Pendulum from normal flight =2C =93on back=94 fall
For the performance of this figure =2C unlike that of the pendulum with for
ward fall =2C the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and in
creases the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is hu
ng up (at almost 0 speed ) =2C he pushes the stick completely . After the
=93on back=94 fall and the lapse in dive =2C he brings the stick in the neu
tral position =2C increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane
out in horizontal flight at the required speed .
Pendulum from inverted flight
The entry speed ' 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to th
at of pendulum from normal flight .
Inverted spinning
This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height minimu
m . In horizontal flight condition =2C at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engine
speed =2C the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
When the speed is 180 km/h =2C he performs a halfrolling and brings the air
plane in inverted horizontal flight .
He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=92t allow the airplane t
o rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the airspee
d is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely on t
he desired sense =2C pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During t
he inverted spinning =2C the control surfaces must be kept in their positio
n from the entry .
The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin =2C at 300 before reaching
at the control point =2C the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to th
e rotation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
As soon as the rotation ceased =2C he brings the rudder pads in the neutral
position and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52 electrical failure |
Had same problem with my Yak52. The master relay has a U shaped copper strap that
connects the ouput side of the relay to the aircraft bus bars. The screws
holding the master relay in place had worked loose allowing the relay to move
a little and the vibration caused the U shaped strap to break in two places.
I replaced the strap with aircraft wire and tightened the screws holding the
relay in place.
Easy to inspect ( and fix)
Cecil Boyd
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339056#339056
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spinning in the '52 |
With those standards, you will a long healthy life.
Blue Sky's
On May 5, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Love <torque_roll@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well there you go then,
> I must say I never got to an advanced stage with my aerobatic flying in th
e '52 (I dont' have a share in one currently). My standards were fairly spor
ts/inter-ish throughout the 18months-2yrs that I flew one. The Pitts on the o
therhand I have got to a relatively advanced stage through flying it more an
d having more extensive training at the beginning.
> whenever I start flying aeros in something new I like to go back to basics
for a number of hours until happy. Take the Extra for example, it is safe t
o say I was an embarassment to Walter Extra!
> I just never had the confidence to get into advanced akro in the '52 but i
t was probably not a silly move to stay clear of all that stuff. Would be ne
at to get back in one with someone who knows what they are doing when I have
the opportunity to get involved flying another one...
> Enjoying the discussion as always.
>
> cheers,
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: torque_roll@hotmail.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
> Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 23:23:59 +1200
>
> Hi all,
>
> On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Has
anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating in t
he yak 52, ie: accelerated positive, inverted and inverted accelerated etc e
tc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52, I was given basic spin t
raining (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Alpha previous
ly - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too), but never venture
d into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to do so at the tim
e.
> should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen videos
of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins, didn't f
ind out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
>
> In aircraft like the Pitts, I refuse to sign a rating off until I have had
the time to work through a full spin training course with the student in qu
estion.
>
> regards,
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AWL Air Services
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: rob@redyak.demon.nl
> Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
> Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:32:28 +0200
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Gent's
> Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual issu
e 2002
> Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
> They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training wit
h experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genna E
lfimov, Mark Jefferies etc etc.
> I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 , also on man
y airshows.
> Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not allo
w to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
> That may lead to bob weight failure, hinge fail and more shit.
> Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (oth
er reasons: yes)
> So: No problem.
> If in doubt: do not perform; like all acro you are not trained in and not f
amiliar with, seek expert help with ON TYPE experience, lots of it, verifiab
le, well know by rest of community.
> Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience doe
s not qualify. period.
> Take care, fly carefully.
> And even then................
> We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
> Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final rep
orts on this.
> Please do not speculate, leave it here.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> www.redyak.nl
>
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 95 of 95
>
> Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted fli
ght .
> Pendulum from normal flight , forward fall First of all the pilot sets the
engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
> At 260 km/h airspeed , he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertical p
ath) , stabilizes it , and maintains this angle exactly .
> ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 96 of 95
> The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection o
n the skyline .
> When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus h
orizon is controlled , the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently , so w
hen the airplane is =9Chung up=9D the admission pressure is redu
ced completely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
> At 45-50 km/h , the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50 max
imum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =9C0=9D
(in the hung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane d
oesn=99t react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutr
al position .
> The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effort
, because when the airplane falls on its tail , the control surfaces are su
bjected to important overloadings .
> After the nose fall and the passing in dive , the pilot pushes the stick u
p to the neutral position ,
> increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the rec
overy from dive in horizontal flight .
> Pendulum from normal flight , =9Con back=9D fall
> For the performance of this figure , unlike that of the pendulum with forw
ard fall , the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and increa
ses the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is hung up
(at almost 0 speed ) , he pushes the stick completely . After the =9C
on back=9D fall and the lapse in dive , he brings the stick in the neu
tral position , increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane out
in horizontal flight at the required speed .
> Pendulum from inverted flight
> The entry speed =93 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is simila
r to that of pendulum from normal flight .
> Inverted spinning
> This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height minim
um . In horizontal flight condition , at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engine sp
eed , the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
> sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
> When the speed is 180 km/h , he performs a halfrolling and brings the airp
lane in inverted horizontal flight .
> He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=99t allow the air
plane to rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the a
irspeed is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely
on the desired sense , pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During
the inverted spinning , the control surfaces must be kept in their position
from the entry .
> The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
> To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin , at 300 before reaching a
t the control point , the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to the rot
ation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
> As soon as the rotation ceased , he brings the rudder pads in the neutral p
osition and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
>
>
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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