Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 05/04/11 (SRGraham)
2. 05:14 AM - Radio reception issues (Thomas Geoghegan)
3. 05:27 AM - Re: Radio reception issues (Eric Wobschall)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Radio reception issues (T A LEWIS)
5. 08:09 AM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 08:33 AM - Another flying video, extended trail this time. (Pete Fowler)
7. 01:45 PM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Andrew Love)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Yak-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 05/04/11 |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak-List Digest
Server
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011 5:00 PM
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 05/04/11
*
Ladies and gentlemen
Perhaps a more appropriate way to look at the discussion, is not whether or
not it is safe to do so in one country or another, but rather look at the
intent of the designer. Whether it is CJ six, yak 52, yak 18 T or other
trainer, not advanced aerobatic machines. We all love our aircraft to death
and they are an absolute delight to fly. They are different from that breed
of aircraft we all derisively referred to as spam cans, and for very good
reason. Their designers made them tough, to teach people how to fly
properly, aerobatically and safely.
If I want to rearrange my insides performing tail slides, advanced tumbles,
gyroscopic manoeuvres, then I get into an aircraft that is designed to do
it. Those of us who are fortunate to have driven Pitts, Extras, Sukhois etc
will tell you that there is a world of difference between purpose built
aircraft, and our wonderful trainers. If we want these wonderful ageing
flying machines to survive until we are old and grey and fail our own
medical, we should look after them and not push them too hard. The saying
about the old and the bold pilots probably holds very true for old bold and
beautiful aeroplanes!
Cheers SG
Message 2
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| Subject: | Radio reception issues |
In my newly acquired CJ, I am noticing that I am having problems hearing ATC. Their
transmissions are broken up and often I do not hear them at all. I find that
where I normally can contact them in my other plane I cannot in the CJ. Coming
into the DC SFRA yesterday I normally could hear them at 2500' several miles
east of Easton MD. Yesterday at 2500' 10 miles west of Easton, I could not
hear ATC. I climbed to 3500' and got a broken response. I could hear other aircraft
on the frequency (132.77) loud & clear. I also had issues hearing ATC coming
out of KHEF the other day.
ATC reports they hear me loud & clear. So it seems to be a reception issue. Any
recommendations on how to start troubleshooting this?
I have no problems communicating with the tower.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Radio reception issues |
Sometimes these vague, flaky problems are a ground plane issue. I don't know the
CJ's arrangement, but I did fix some Yak-52 (stock Baklan-5, stock antenna)
radio problems with a burnishing of the underside of the fuselage and topside
of the antenna plate where they're in contact.
On May 6, 2011, at 8:09 AM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:
>
> In my newly acquired CJ, I am noticing that I am having problems hearing ATC.
Their transmissions are broken up and often I do not hear them at all. I find
that where I normally can contact them in my other plane I cannot in the CJ.
Coming into the DC SFRA yesterday I normally could hear them at 2500' several
miles east of Easton MD. Yesterday at 2500' 10 miles west of Easton, I could not
hear ATC. I climbed to 3500' and got a broken response. I could hear other
aircraft on the frequency (132.77) loud & clear. I also had issues hearing ATC
coming out of KHEF the other day.
>
> ATC reports they hear me loud & clear. So it seems to be a reception issue. Any
recommendations on how to start troubleshooting this?
>
> I have no problems communicating with the tower.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Radio reception issues |
I would look at the headset .
Terry
----- Original Message ----
From: Eric Wobschall <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 8:24:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Radio reception issues
Sometimes these vague, flaky problems are a ground plane issue. I don't know the
CJ's arrangement, but I did fix some Yak-52 (stock Baklan-5, stock antenna)
radio problems with a burnishing of the underside of the fuselage and topside of
the antenna plate where they're in contact.
On May 6, 2011, at 8:09 AM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:
>
> In my newly acquired CJ, I am noticing that I am having problems hearing ATC.
>Their transmissions are broken up and often I do not hear them at all. I find
>that where I normally can contact them in my other plane I cannot in the CJ.
>Coming into the DC SFRA yesterday I normally could hear them at 2500' several
>miles east of Easton MD. Yesterday at 2500' 10 miles west of Easton, I could not
>hear ATC. I climbed to 3500' and got a broken response. I could hear other
>aircraft on the frequency (132.77) loud & clear. I also had issues hearing ATC
>coming out of KHEF the other day.
>
> ATC reports they hear me loud & clear. So it seems to be a reception issue. Any
>recommendations on how to start troubleshooting this?
>
> I have no problems communicating with the tower.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Spinning in the '52 |
Bill... BILL! Didn't you read Andrews email address?
TORQUE_ROLL @ hotmail.com ???
Sounds dangerous to me. :-)
Signed, "Just that angry Man"
Mark
(boring day at work, sorry)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
With those standards, you will a long healthy life.
Blue Sky's
On May 5, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Love <torque_roll@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well there you go then,
I must say I never got to an advanced stage with my aerobatic flying in the '52
(I dont' have a share in one currently). My standards were fairly sports/inter-ish
throughout the 18months-2yrs that I flew one. The Pitts on the otherhand
I have got to a relatively advanced stage through flying it more and having
more extensive training at the beginning.
whenever I start flying aeros in something new I like to go back to basics for
a number of hours until happy. Take the Extra for example, it is safe to say
I was an embarassment to Walter Extra!
I just never had the confidence to get into advanced akro in the '52 but it was
probably not a silly move to stay clear of all that stuff. Would be neat to
get back in one with someone who knows what they are doing when I have the opportunity
to get involved flying another one...
Enjoying the discussion as always.
cheers,
Andrew Love
Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
________________________________
From: <mailto:torque_roll@hotmail.com> torque_roll@hotmail.com
To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 23:23:59 +1200
Hi all,
On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Has anyone
received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating in the yak
52, ie: accelerated positive, inverted and inverted accelerated etc etc? I have
never done advanced spinning in the '52, I was given basic spin training (which
I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Alpha previously - I did
get to do some accelerated and flat spins too), but never ventured into advanced
spinning as I didn't have the background to do so at the time.
should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen videos of
'52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins, didn't find out
exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
In aircraft like the Pitts, I refuse to sign a rating off until I have had the
time to work through a full spin training course with the student in question.
regards,
Andrew Love
AWL Air Services
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
________________________________
From: <mailto:rob@redyak.demon.nl> rob@redyak.demon.nl
Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:32:28 +0200
To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com
Gent's
Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual issue 2002
Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training with experienced
and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genna Elfimov,
Mark Jefferies etc etc.
I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 , also on many airshows.
Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not allow to
let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
That may lead to bob weight failure, hinge fail and more shit.
Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (other reasons:
yes)
So: No problem.
If in doubt: do not perform; like all acro you are not trained in and not familiar
with, seek expert help with ON TYPE experience, lots of it, verifiable, well
know by rest of community.
Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience does not
qualify. period.
Take care, fly carefully.
And even then................
We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final reports
on this.
Please do not speculate, leave it here.
Cheers,
Robert
<http://www.redyak.nl/> www.redyak.nl
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 95 of 95
Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted flight
.
Pendulum from normal flight , forward fall First of all the pilot sets the engine
speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
At 260 km/h airspeed , he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertical path)
, stabilizes it , and maintains this angle exactly .
ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
Page 96 of 95
The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection on the
skyline .
When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus horizon
is controlled , the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently , so when the
airplane is hung up the admission pressure is reduced completely (propeller
in low pitch condition) .
At 45-50 km/h , the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50 maximum)
by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost 0 (in the hung up moment)
the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane doesnt react to this control)
and keeps the rudder pads on the neutral position .
The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effort , because
when the airplane falls on its tail , the control surfaces are subjected
to important overloadings .
After the nose fall and the passing in dive , the pilot pushes the stick up to
the neutral position ,
increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the recovery
from dive in horizontal flight .
Pendulum from normal flight , on back fall
For the performance of this figure , unlike that of the pendulum with forward
fall , the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and increases the
elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is hung up (at almost
0 speed ) , he pushes the stick completely . After the on back fall and the
lapse in dive , he brings the stick in the neutral position , increases the
admission pressure and drives the airplane out in horizontal flight at the required
speed .
Pendulum from inverted flight
The entry speed 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to that of
pendulum from normal flight .
Inverted spinning
This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height minimum .
In horizontal flight condition , at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engine speed ,
the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
When the speed is 180 km/h , he performs a halfrolling and brings the airplane
in inverted horizontal flight .
He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesnt allow the airplane to rotate
. He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the airspeed is 140
km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely on the desired sense
, pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During the inverted spinning
, the control surfaces must be kept in their position from the entry .
The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin , at 300 before reaching at the
control point , the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to the rotation
sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
As soon as the rotation ceased , he brings the rudder pads in the neutral position
and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Another flying video, extended trail this time. |
Got some new clips so cut together a video. It's nice to have GIBs with stomachs
of steel!:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339118#339118
Message 7
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| Subject: | Spinning in the '52 |
Yep thats the one Mark=2C but only in a Pitts. :)
Andrew Love
Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
> Date: Fri=2C 6 May 2011 11:07:04 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
t=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Bill... BILL! Didn't you read Andrews email address?
>
> TORQUE_ROLL @ hotmail.com ???
>
> Sounds dangerous to me. :-)
>
> Signed=2C "Just that angry Man"
>
> Mark
>
> (boring day at work=2C sorry)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> Sent: Thursday=2C May 05=2C 2011 9:13 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
>
> With those standards=2C you will a long healthy life.
>
> Blue Sky's
>
>
> On May 5=2C 2011=2C at 3:35 PM=2C Andrew Love <torque_roll@hotmail.com> w
rote:
>
>
>
> Well there you go then=2C
> I must say I never got to an advanced stage with my aerobatic flying in t
he '52 (I dont' have a share in one currently). My standards were fairly sp
orts/inter-ish throughout the 18months-2yrs that I flew one. The Pitts on t
he otherhand I have got to a relatively advanced stage through flying it mo
re and having more extensive training at the beginning.
> whenever I start flying aeros in something new I like to go back to basic
s for a number of hours until happy. Take the Extra for example=2C it is sa
fe to say I was an embarassment to Walter Extra!
> I just never had the confidence to get into advanced akro in the '52 but
it was probably not a silly move to stay clear of all that stuff. Would be
neat to get back in one with someone who knows what they are doing when I h
ave the opportunity to get involved flying another one...
> Enjoying the discussion as always.
>
> cheers=2C
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: <mailto:torque_roll@hotmail.com> torque_roll@hotmail.com
> To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
> Date: Thu=2C 5 May 2011 23:23:59 +1200
>
> Hi all=2C
>
> On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Ha
s anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating i
n the yak 52=2C ie: accelerated positive=2C inverted and inverted accelerat
ed etc etc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52=2C I was given b
asic spin training (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Al
pha previously - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too)=2C bu
t never ventured into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to
do so at the time.
> should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen video
s of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins=2C didn
't find out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
>
> In aircraft like the Pitts=2C I refuse to sign a rating off until I have
had the time to work through a full spin training course with the student i
n question.
>
> regards=2C
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AWL Air Services
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: <mailto:rob@redyak.demon.nl> rob@redyak.demon.nl
> Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
> Date: Thu=2C 5 May 2011 11:32:28 +0200
> To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Gent's
> Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual iss
ue 2002
> Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
> They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training wi
th experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genn
a Elfimov=2C Mark Jefferies etc etc.
> I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 =2C also on
many airshows.
> Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not all
ow to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
> That may lead to bob weight failure=2C hinge fail and more shit.
> Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (ot
her reasons: yes)
> So: No problem.
> If in doubt: do not perform=3B like all acro you are not trained in and n
ot familiar with=2C seek expert help with ON TYPE experience=2C lots of it
=2C verifiable=2C well know by rest of community.
> Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience do
es not qualify. period.
> Take care=2C fly carefully.
> And even then................
> We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
> Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final re
ports on this.
> Please do not speculate=2C leave it here.
>
> Cheers=2C
> Robert
> <http://www.redyak.nl/> www.redyak.nl
>
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 95 of 95
>
> Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted fl
ight .
> Pendulum from normal flight =2C forward fall First of all the pilot sets
the engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
> At 260 km/h airspeed =2C he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertic
al path) =2C stabilizes it =2C and maintains this angle exactly .
> ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 96 of 95
> The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection
on the skyline .
> When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus
horizon is controlled =2C the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently
=2C so when the airplane is =93hung up=94 the admission pressure is reduced
completely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
> At 45-50 km/h =2C the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50
maximum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =930=94 (in the
hung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane doesn
=92t react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutral positi
on .
> The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effor
t =2C because when the airplane falls on its tail =2C the control surfaces
are subjected to important overloadings .
> After the nose fall and the passing in dive =2C the pilot pushes the stic
k up to the neutral position =2C
> increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the re
covery from dive in horizontal flight .
> Pendulum from normal flight =2C =93on back=94 fall
> For the performance of this figure =2C unlike that of the pendulum with f
orward fall =2C the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and
increases the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is
hung up (at almost 0 speed ) =2C he pushes the stick completely . After the
=93on back=94 fall and the lapse in dive =2C he brings the stick in the ne
utral position =2C increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane
out in horizontal flight at the required speed .
> Pendulum from inverted flight
> The entry speed ' 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to
that of pendulum from normal flight .
> Inverted spinning
> This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height mini
mum . In horizontal flight condition =2C at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engin
e speed =2C the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
> sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
> When the speed is 180 km/h =2C he performs a halfrolling and brings the a
irplane in inverted horizontal flight .
> He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=92t allow the airplane
to rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the airsp
eed is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely on
the desired sense =2C pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During
the inverted spinning =2C the control surfaces must be kept in their posit
ion from the entry .
> The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
> To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin =2C at 300 before reachi
ng at the control point =2C the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to
the rotation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
> As soon as the rotation ceased =2C he brings the rudder pads in the neutr
al position and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
>
>
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
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