Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: Spinning in the '52 (Andrew Love)
2. 03:13 AM - Re: CJ Magneto Probs (lOU)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Prop hub stud torque (Stephen Morrey)
4. 08:51 AM - Re: CJ Magneto Probs (Gill Gutierrez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Spinning in the '52 |
Yep I got the drift there Mark! I should probably get a sensible email addr
ess but I quite like this one... Speaking of advanced spinning...just been
barreling around getting someone up to speed in a Pitts: loads of landings
and a stack of inverted spins among other elements of the rating and he is
all but done.
This discussion here has really made me want to do some advanced spin train
ing in a '52 with someone=2C now. I must make a trip out to the backyard to
that money tree that is growing so well....
regards=2C
Andrew Love
Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
> Date: Fri=2C 6 May 2011 11:07:04 -0400
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
t=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Bill... BILL! Didn't you read Andrews email address?
>
> TORQUE_ROLL @ hotmail.com ???
>
> Sounds dangerous to me. :-)
>
> Signed=2C "Just that angry Man"
>
> Mark
>
> (boring day at work=2C sorry)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> Sent: Thursday=2C May 05=2C 2011 9:13 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
>
> With those standards=2C you will a long healthy life.
>
> Blue Sky's
>
>
> On May 5=2C 2011=2C at 3:35 PM=2C Andrew Love <torque_roll@hotmail.com> w
rote:
>
>
>
> Well there you go then=2C
> I must say I never got to an advanced stage with my aerobatic flying in t
he '52 (I dont' have a share in one currently). My standards were fairly sp
orts/inter-ish throughout the 18months-2yrs that I flew one. The Pitts on t
he otherhand I have got to a relatively advanced stage through flying it mo
re and having more extensive training at the beginning.
> whenever I start flying aeros in something new I like to go back to basic
s for a number of hours until happy. Take the Extra for example=2C it is sa
fe to say I was an embarassment to Walter Extra!
> I just never had the confidence to get into advanced akro in the '52 but
it was probably not a silly move to stay clear of all that stuff. Would be
neat to get back in one with someone who knows what they are doing when I h
ave the opportunity to get involved flying another one...
> Enjoying the discussion as always.
>
> cheers=2C
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nu Look Window Cleaning Services Ltd
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: <mailto:torque_roll@hotmail.com> torque_roll@hotmail.com
> To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Spinning in the '52
> Date: Thu=2C 5 May 2011 23:23:59 +1200
>
> Hi all=2C
>
> On the subject of tailslides. What is everyone's thoughts on spinning? Ha
s anyone received (or given) advanced spin training as part of the rating i
n the yak 52=2C ie: accelerated positive=2C inverted and inverted accelerat
ed etc etc? I have never done advanced spinning in the '52=2C I was given b
asic spin training (which I had learn't when I did my aeros rating in an Al
pha previously - I did get to do some accelerated and flat spins too)=2C bu
t never ventured into advanced spinning as I didn't have the background to
do so at the time.
> should it be compulsory in the yak though? I have heard of and seen video
s of '52s going inverted after being held in positive upright spins=2C didn
't find out exactly what the pilot was doing ie outspin aileron or power.
>
> In aircraft like the Pitts=2C I refuse to sign a rating off until I have
had the time to work through a full spin training course with the student i
n question.
>
> regards=2C
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AWL Air Services
>
>
>
>
> P +64 3 379 5087 I M +64 21 818 816
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: <mailto:rob@redyak.demon.nl> rob@redyak.demon.nl
> Subject: Yak-List: Aerostar Yak52 flight manual on tailslides
> Date: Thu=2C 5 May 2011 11:32:28 +0200
> To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> yak-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Gent's
> Here is a copy extract of the original Aerostar Yak-52 factory manual iss
ue 2002
> Tailslides are NOT forbidden.
> They need -like all aerobatcs- to be performed well and after training wi
th experienced and well known Yak/DOOSAF pilots like Sergei Boriac and Genn
a Elfimov=2C Mark Jefferies etc etc.
> I have been doing tailslides for the last 14 years in my -52 =2C also on
many airshows.
> Imperative is that you hold on to stick and rudder tightly and do not all
ow to let the backflow 'slam stop' them.
> That may lead to bob weight failure=2C hinge fail and more shit.
> Have never heard about seconite or linnen fail because of THIS reason (ot
her reasons: yes)
> So: No problem.
> If in doubt: do not perform=3B like all acro you are not trained in and n
ot familiar with=2C seek expert help with ON TYPE experience=2C lots of it
=2C verifiable=2C well know by rest of community.
> Some with e.g. a lot of Pitts Special experience and no Y52 experience do
es not qualify. period.
> Take care=2C fly carefully.
> And even then................
> We lost an NL based Yak52 and 2 dead last week in UK.(Uk citizens)
> Investigation still going on so wait a month or two for true and final re
ports on this.
> Please do not speculate=2C leave it here.
>
> Cheers=2C
> Robert
> <http://www.redyak.nl/> www.redyak.nl
>
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 95 of 95
>
> Pendulum The ingress into pendulum is operated from normal or inverted fl
ight .
> Pendulum from normal flight =2C forward fall First of all the pilot sets
the engine speed at 82% and ensures the admission total pressure .
> At 260 km/h airspeed =2C he drives the airplane in a 900 climb (on vertic
al path) =2C stabilizes it =2C and maintains this angle exactly .
> ISSUE / DATE: 1/10.2002
> S.C. AEROSTAR S.A. BACAU
> YAK-52 FLIGHT MANUAL
> Page 96 of 95
> The airplane position versus horizon is checked upon the wings projection
on the skyline .
> When the airplane is stabilized on vertical path and its position versus
horizon is controlled =2C the pilot reduces the admission pressure gently
=2C so when the airplane is =93hung up=94 the admission pressure is reduced
completely (propeller in low pitch condition) .
> At 45-50 km/h =2C the elevation angle is decreased up to 87-850 (with 50
maximum) by the push of the stick .When the speed is almost =930=94 (in the
hung up moment) the pilot pulls the stick completely (the airplane doesn
=92t react to this control) and keeps the rudder pads on the neutral positi
on .
> The stick and the rudder pads are kept in these position by a small effor
t =2C because when the airplane falls on its tail =2C the control surfaces
are subjected to important overloadings .
> After the nose fall and the passing in dive =2C the pilot pushes the stic
k up to the neutral position =2C
> increases the admission pressure and at 190 km/h minimum initiates the re
covery from dive in horizontal flight .
> Pendulum from normal flight =2C =93on back=94 fall
> For the performance of this figure =2C unlike that of the pendulum with f
orward fall =2C the pilot pulls the stick when the speed is 40-50 km/h and
increases the elevation angle from 900 up to 93-950 . When the airplane is
hung up (at almost 0 speed ) =2C he pushes the stick completely . After the
=93on back=94 fall and the lapse in dive =2C he brings the stick in the ne
utral position =2C increases the admission pressure and drives the airplane
out in horizontal flight at the required speed .
> Pendulum from inverted flight
> The entry speed ' 280 km/h . The sequence of performance is similar to
that of pendulum from normal flight .
> Inverted spinning
> This figure may be performed in training purposes from 1500 m height mini
mum . In horizontal flight condition =2C at 170 km/h airspeed and 82% engin
e speed =2C the pilot equilibrates the airplane and
> sets the control point for recovery from spinning .
> When the speed is 180 km/h =2C he performs a halfrolling and brings the a
irplane in inverted horizontal flight .
> He reduces the admission pressure slowly and doesn=92t allow the airplane
to rotate . He maintains the airplane in horizontal flight until the airsp
eed is 140 km/h . Then he actuates the rudder pads gently and completely on
the desired sense =2C pushes the stick and initiates the spinning . During
the inverted spinning =2C the control surfaces must be kept in their posit
ion from the entry .
> The loss of height for one-turn spin is about 100-150 m .
> To drive the airplane out from the inverted spin =2C at 300 before reachi
ng at the control point =2C the pilot actuates the rudder pads contrary to
the rotation sense and pulls the stick beyond the neutral position.
> As soon as the rotation ceased =2C he brings the rudder pads in the neutr
al position and pushes the stick beyond the neutral position .
>
>
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> ========================
> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Yak-List
> ========================
> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 2
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| Subject: | CJ Magneto Probs |
Mark
Did you check rear cockpit mag override switch, if this is the problem put a
switch guard on it?
Regards Lou
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KingCJ6@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2011 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ Magneto Probs
"P" lead broken or not grounded. Your A&P didn't notice this?
In a message dated 5/11/2011 6:41:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mark@albanyproperty.com.au writes:
Hi All,
Hoping someone might know what this problem is.
I've been having some work done on my Nanchang so its been fiddled with a
fair bit. It started and ran fine, turned the mags off and it kept running!
Any ideas/advice on what it could be?
Thanks
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339629#339629==================
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Prop hub stud torque |
Can anyone tell me what the torque is for the 4 bolts in the balance weight
bracket attachment. I expect I need to pull the balance weight to dye pen
the bracket attachment?
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>
> Where to begin?
>
> There appears to be a need for some understanding of what "torque" is all
> about and I guess I will bore everyone to tears. My apology in advance!
>
> 1. The prop. attach studs on the M14P are designed to carry tensile loads
> only. There is of course a very high shear component but this is reacted
> solely by the mating hub and flange serrations. The proper mating of the
> serrations depends on the tensile load of the studs but does not transfer
> shear loading to the studs.
> A shaft mounted propellor reacts shear loads directly and independently
> through the shaft SPLINES.
>
> 2. The waisted (not wasted) part of the stud (usually referred to as a
> necked stud) is done for a specific reason.
> A stud, or bolt, designed to carry tension loads must be STRETCHED to a
> tensile loading in excess of the loads expected to be encountered in
> service. This is particularly critical for a joint subject to cyclic
> loading and unloading.
> Of course the stretching must not exceed the elastic limit
> of the fastener.
> If not pre-stretched the fastener will be repeatedly stretched in service.
> Depending on the frequency and magnitude of this action the stud, or the
> structure it holds, will eventually fail due to fatigue.
> If it is correctly stretched, within its elastic limit, it will never
> stretch in normal service and will not fail due to fatigue.
>
> A necked stud has the diameter reduced to correspond with the thread root
> diameter so that this stretching is reasonably uniform throughout the length
> and does not focus the entire load in the thread root area. In addition,
> highly loaded fasteners like this will have rolled threads.
>
> In any event a fastener loaded in tension is stretched on the basis of the
> weakest part - usually the thread root dia.
> A fastener loaded in shear, which implies a close tolerance fit, is graded
> on the shear strength of the full dia. shank.
>
> 3. The Prop retaining studs and the blade clamping bolts have many
> similarities, they are necked and they both appear to have rolled threads
> but they are very different in size.
> The blade bolt is 10 mm compared to the stud which is 14 mm. That is the
> nominal dimension, NOT the necked area.
> The 10 mm bolt is carrying pure tension loads without cyclic loading and is
> torqued to 8 Kgm, 78NM or 58 lb/ft. The limit is 57 to 63 lb/ft.
>
> The 14 mm stud has approximately double the cross sectional area of the
> bolt, is also loaded in tension WITH
> a cyclic factor and it is torqued to the same number? Not a chance.
>
> 4. What is torque as it relates to a fastener? It is a simple, easy to
> apply method of somewhat controlled STRETCHING of a fastener. It is highly
> subject to errors due to thread condition, lubrication, etc.
> It is not used in some very highly critical joints because of those
> limitations. Instead a direct measurement of bolt stretch is done using a
> micrometer or ultrasound techniques. The limits are given in actual bolt
> stretch.
>
> 5. Torque (stretch) values are determined from the ultimate strength of
> the material (UTS), the yield strength (upper elastic limit), effective
> cross section area, thread pitch and the expected service loading.
> .
> 6. I would hope someone could find a published torque value for the V530
> nuts that make sense. 57 lb/ft does not.
> Fasteners do fail from over tightening. There is always a limit. But more
> often they fail from under tightening and subsequent fatigue.
>
> Cheers;
> Walt
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Royden 2011" <heaysr@telus.net>
>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:01 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Prop hub stud torque
>
>
>>
>> Dear Yaklisters
>>
>> This is an appeal please to not rely on personal belief or equivalence to
>> North American propellers/practice.
>>
>> The Russians built these very successful and robust V-530 props for
>> decades - let's go by their manual. That they have evidently been seriously
>> over-torqued (~60%) in the USA without previous reports of failures is a
>> testament to their robustness.
>>
>> Jill's conversion is correct.
>>
>> 7 kg.m = 50.6 ft.lb
>> 8 kg.m = 57.9 ft.lb
>>
>> As for stud size: - what you see in NOT what you get. The stud nut is 22
>> mm and one sees only thread exposed when the prop is off the aircraft.
>>
>> But being on the receiving end of a broken stud one finds a stud shank
>> that is wasted to a diameter noticeably less than the inside diameter of the
>> thread - and always hidden from view when normally within the prop flange.
>>
>> Why the designers do that, I can only guess. Presumably because the spline
>> carries all shear loads and the stud is designed to carry only tensile
>> loads. By wasting the shank, it will not attract shear loads from the holes
>> through which it loosely passes in the prop hub.
>>
>> The specified torque must be based on the wasted shank diameter (normally
>> hidden from view) and not the larger thread that is normally in view. Hence
>> the deceivingly low torque values specified by the Russians for these studs.
>>
>> If Jill posts all the torque numbers, you will find the specified torque
>> for the prop blade c clamps is higher than the for the flange studs (59
>> ft.lb if I remember well). Maybe not surprising as the shank diameter for
>> the C clamp bolt visually appears larger than the wasted diameter of the
>> prop flange studs. (However, to be confirmed with measurements next
>> weekend).
>>
>> I also hope to get you some photos showing the failed stud by next
>> weekend.
>>
>> Please take care and be vigilant with your torque wrenches!
>>
>> Royden
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@persona.ca>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Prop hub stud torque
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jill;
>>>
>>> I believe Eric's 87 lb/ft for the V530 prop. retaining nuts is correct.
>>> I use 82 to 93 lb/ft. Can't remember where it came from but it fits for
>>> the bolt size and the engine HP. Hartzells & McCauleys on 150- 180 HP
>>> require 50 ft/lb.
>>> MT propellors (for over 300HP and with 9/16" studs) require 100 to 110
>>> lb/ft.
>>>
>>> 57 lb/ft is the correct torque for the V530 and J9-G1 blade clamp nuts.
>>>
>>> Walt
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jill Gernetzke" <jill@m-14p.com>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:03 AM
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Prop hub stud torque
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just saw this post and thought I should correct some bad information.
>>>> The
>>>> torque value specified in the Russian V-530 Overhaul manual (Dated 14
>>>> May
>>>> 1975) for the six prop hub studs is 7 (+1) kgc-m. (50 - 57 ft/lbs - if
>>>> Online Conversion is correct.) This is significantly different than 87.
>>>>
>>>> I have never heard of a stud breaking on a V-530 hub, but I have now.
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>> M-14P, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | CJ Magneto Probs |
Make sure P leads and mag switches are okay and connected.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mnorman
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:39 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ Magneto Probs
Hi All,
Hoping someone might know what this problem is.
I've been having some work done on my Nanchang so its been fiddled with a
fair bit. It started and ran fine, turned the mags off and it kept running!
Any ideas/advice on what it could be?
Thanks
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339629#339629
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