Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Re: Liberty bell (Tim Gagnon)
2. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Liberty bell (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Detonation (Roger Kemp M.D.)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: Liberty bell (Fran Myers)
5. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Detonation (T A LEWIS)
6. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Liberty bell (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 09:10 AM - Re: Starving Student needs help (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Detonation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: Detonation (tjyak50)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Detonation (T A LEWIS)
11. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Detonation (Roger Kemp M.D.)
12. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Detonation (Roger Kemp M.D.)
13. 12:04 PM - Re: Liberty bell (Tim Gagnon)
14. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (A. Dennis Savarese)
15. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (T A LEWIS)
16. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (A. Dennis Savarese)
17. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (T A LEWIS)
18. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (Roger Kemp M.D.)
19. 04:47 PM - Nice Yak-50 For Sale (Harry Hirschman)
20. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (T A LEWIS)
21. 07:07 PM - CJ6 G Meter (Okanogan Lew)
22. 07:15 PM - Offending Spark Plugs (Roger Kemp M.D.)
23. 07:16 PM - Re: Starving Student needs help (Bill Geipel)
24. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Detonation (Roger Kemp M.D.)
25. 08:02 PM - Re: CJ6 G Meter (Roger Kemp M.D.)
26. 08:49 PM - Re: CJ6 G Meter (Walter Lannon)
27. 09:03 PM - Re: CJ6 G Meter (Larry Pine)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Liberty bell |
Was the fuel problem the cause of the inflight fire and if so, why were there pax
on board with a known maintenance deficiency?
A huge loss and it appears at first glance, one that might have been preventable.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342932#342932
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Liberty bell |
Right now I don't think anyone really knows what happened. I know a lot
of speculation happens to soon sometimes. These airplanes are old. You
have to watch them real close. I aborted a takeoff on a 5,000' runway at
about 95kts in the B-24 several years ago. Reason? Fuel started pouring from
an inboard engine fuel shutoff valve. These valve are located RIGHT OVER
the generator control panel. (Sorry guys that was the way it was
designed). The abort was exciting but trying to stop that fuel flow was even
worse.
We shut down the engine with the mixture and than the mags as we taxied
back. Still the fuel was flowing. "OH! Wait! Turn off the fuel boost
pump!" The fuel finally stopped. In the distractions of an abort, clearing
runways, ATC etc - - things are ALWAYS forgotten. That valve had been
working fatefully for years. With no sign of even starting to wear out. And
guess what - those were rare valves. It took us 2 days to repair. As simple
as these old airplane are compared to the same size aircraft of today,
they still have many failure points. Some of them are a bitch to check and/or
repair. Lets give these guys a little time to sort things out and at this
point be happy no one was killed. We will eventually get the straight
scoop. Its to bad to lose a B-17 particularly a flying one. But the valve of
a B-17 (if you happened to own one) just went up by 1/8.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 6/14/2011 7:18:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
NiftyYak50@fuse.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
Was the fuel problem the cause of the inflight fire and if so, why were
there pax on board with a known maintenance deficiency?
A huge loss and it appears at first glance, one that might have been
preventable.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342932#342932
Message 3
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Generally all the plugs were pulled each time to replace them. The prop was not
,moved buy me when I only had the plugs out of #6 after finding it to be the
cold one after the last flight ( test fight).
Thanks for the help and advise.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 14, 2011, at 12:08 AM, "tjyak50" <tomjohnson@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Remember: NEVER pull just one spark plug. Always remove at least all front
or rear plugs. If you only remove one and pull the prop through then you come
back to that cylinder the engine will zip past the zero compression jug and surprise
the shit out of you and risk serious injury. Never pull just one plug
if you move the prop.
>
> Hope this all helps amigo.
>
> Tj
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342930#342930
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Liberty bell |
>From a lurker, sorry.
I think it was a masterful job of airmanship. Obstacles, fire, low altitude,
low altitude return, not a lot of spare performance. Wow.
In looking at the top view of the burned out wreck you see the three wheel
tracks. Straight till the end. Everyone walked out.
This performance may be up to the level of the Sioux City DC-10, I think it
might be.
As a Captain at a regional airline with close to 10K in the log, AIRMANSHIP
in the cockpit is the biggest issue I see in the up and coming pilots. The
kids can program the computers but then make scary visual approaches.
Unfortunately a lot of these young guys may never truly understand just how
good a job those pilots and observers did getting that B-17 down. That's why
I like reading this YAK list. There are some awesome pilots here.
At a Flight Instructor Refresher I took many years ago one of the presenters
said "When an aircraft fails in the air, depending on the malfunction - it
has decided to commit suicide. We must all decide to choose life over
preserving the aircraft. We must make it to the ground safe and intact EVEN
if the aircraft is destroyed - When I am walking away, I may even drop a
match on it." This advice has been in my head for over 20 years. I have
always tried to lead my crew with these examples. Again GREAT JOB!
Message 5
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Doc ,
I did not readthat youyou checked the ign. timing .
If one mag is advanced too far you have a source for detonation .
Terry
----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 9:40:58 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Generally all the plugs were pulled each time to replace them. The prop was not
,moved buy me when I only had the plugs out of #6 after finding it to be the
cold one after the last flight ( test fight).
Thanks for the help and advise.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 14, 2011, at 12:08 AM, "tjyak50" <tomjohnson@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Remember: NEVER pull just one spark plug. Always remove at least all front or
>rear plugs. If you only remove one and pull the prop through then you come back
>to that cylinder the engine will zip past the zero compression jug and surprise
>the shit out of you and risk serious injury. Never pull just one plug if you
>move the prop.
>
> Hope this all helps amigo.
>
> Tj
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342930#342930
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Liberty bell |
I do not agree with your posting Tim.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:16 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Liberty bell
Was the fuel problem the cause of the inflight fire and if so, why were
there pax on board with a known maintenance deficiency?
A huge loss and it appears at first glance, one that might have been
preventable.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342932#342932
Message 7
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| Subject: | Starving Student needs help |
Larry, I looked at your survey and some of the questions need fixing.
Send me the list of questions to mark.bitterlich@navy.mil and I will
show you what I am talking about.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Pine
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 9:39 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Starving Student needs help
OK folks, I need the Red Star group to rally together to help one of
there own. Last week I asked if our members would help me with a survey
to gather information for a Masters thesis I'm working on. The thesis
will be a cost analysis of general aviation. Unfortunately, the numbers
of responses I received were far less than the number of responses I
need. So, usually I would not resort to begging but in this case I'm
not above such tactics. So, Please if you have not participated and
would like to help me out, please click the link below. It is a short
survey that will only take 1 minute. All information is confidential
and anonymous. Information will not be shared and not tracking of
volunteers is done.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CQPS997
<https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CQPS997>
A QUANTITATIVE LOOK AT THE COST OF OWNERSHIP AND GENERAL AVIATION
FLYING: KNOWING WHEN TO SAY WHEN S
<https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CQPS997>
Thank you
"Spook"
Larry Pine
Message 8
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I have found that when I have people standing around asking questions
when I work on something, I invariably will FU... excuse me... will
invariably mess it up. When you are putting your hands on something as
important as an aircraft engine, get everyone that is not directly
involved OUT OF THE HANGAR. Sometimes their feelings will get hurt:
"HEY WE JUST WANT TO WATCH AND LEARN!" Tough banouchee's! Kick them
the heck out. This is not an EAA event, it is an aircraft engine
repair and there is no room for distractions.
I have made the same mistake myself and have paid the price. Now.... so
have you. Time for us all to learn from it.
As to your engine: My 40 years of working on military aircraft have
taught me one thing. If something is not working, it is almost ALWAYS
related to where humans recently laid their hands. You just changed two
cylinders. The engine was running just fine before you did that. Now
it is not running well and it is doing something weird. You did not
touch the mags... leave them alone. Do not change the gap on the plugs
from what worked before. If it worked before, it should work now.
Don't go changing anything that has ALWAYS worked before.
This engine has a common intake fed by a blower. This intake then has
individual intake tubes that feed up to individual cylinders. If you
have a bad leak on any one intake, that leak has the capability to
impact the mixture to ALL of the cylinders. Remember that an intake
leak can go BOTH DIRECTIONS. If you have the engine developing less
manifold pressure than what outside ambient air pressure is, then the
leak can be air going in, and not fuel mixture going out. The motor
has a blower, so at some settings and at some altitudes, stuff can come
out and at other settings "stuff" can come in.
So it is really down to one of two things:
1. Something came apart and is rattling around inside. Which seems
unlikely unless some idiot let a wrist pin cap fall off as the cylinder
was installed. (This has happened before). If this happened, you would
see metal in the filter by now.
2. There is some kind of bad intake leak. Fix that. If you can't find
any leaks, look some more. If you still can't find any, get someone
else to come look.
3. Don't touch the mags. They did not just pick this moment in time to
switch to some kind of ultra advanced condition unless you found them
LOOSE to begin with.
4. Borescope anything and everything you want to. Always a good idea.
Just my two cents.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
M.D.
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Running 100 LL with MMO all the time.
Concur with airborne mag thoughts
Found the #3 intake had 20/1000ths space along the edge of the trumpet
when
I loosened the collar. The intake tube had been knocked off the wing by
a
curious George milling around while I was working asking the usual
torrid of
useless questions coming from a none round motor driver of spam cans at
the
EAA meeting in my hanger. So at the least, I had an air leak on #3. Have
left the intake drain on #4,5, and 6 open before with this kind of BS.
But
will that cause the plugs to be tapped down on #1, #3, and #4 the first
time
I experienced the misfire. Then after changing all the plugs, scoping
the
cylinders, rechecking the valve lash, replacing the supercharger intake
seals on #1 and #3 ( the replaced cylinders), the monster raises its'
head
on #6??!!! Both fore and aft plugs were tapped down onto the element.
Still have not pulled the mag caps and checked the rotor/cap for arching
nor
have I gotten to check the points and the rivet in the base plate. That
is
next.
Ran her up yesterday for about 10 mins to 80% with what felt like a
normal
rumbling M-14. Have not strapped her down and pushed it up to 100% yet.
A
few more things before I go there.
Scoping the effected cylinders did not reveal any foreign bodies, valves
with chips of cracks on them, no bright areas around the valve seat lip
suggestive of burning and there was, as you said, a boat load of
clearance
between the piston and plugs.
And...the epic #$%^&*@ saga continues!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tjyak50
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:46 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
There is about a mile of clearance from the top of the piston to the
plug in
those hemi-heads.
Are you running 100LL or some other fuel? Detonation simply from being
lean
with stock compression ratio at low power on good 100LL seems unlikely
to
me. If you had really bad gas maybe another story.
Mechanical "FOD" of some type? Something small enough to get past the
intake grate and sucked into the compressor then slung out to various
cylinders causing plug damage, pitting, valve damage and intake
backfires
due to the valve stuck open?
Airborn mag check: the big thing you are checking for is smoothness.
The
prop gov will maintain the selected RPM so any rpm variation you might
see
is different from the ground mag check when the prop is fixed pitch on
the
low-pitch stops.
Please keep us posted.
TJ
Yak 50
www.airpowerinsurance.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342863#342863
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I second Marks comments. Looky-loos with random ideas are distracting.
Looky-loos with random ideas spread thousands of miles away on the internet? -Priceless!
The odd thing is how your spark plug electrodes got physically damaged.
What force physically smashed them down against the center thing?
Was it a ricochet?
Or a blast front?
Pictures would be neat.
Tj
82-2308
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342956#342956
Message 10
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tjyak50 ,
On my engine I have had to move and or remove the mags several times while
working on the plug wires , engine mounts and the generator . It is possible
that the mags ,or a mag , was moved to removethe cylinders and the associated
pistons.
Looky-Loo
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: tjyak50 <tomjohnson@cox.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 1:17:10 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
I second Marks comments. Looky-loos with random ideas are distracting.
Looky-loos with random ideas spread thousands of miles away on the internet?
-Priceless!
The odd thing is how your spark plug electrodes got physically damaged.
What force physically smashed them down against the center thing?
Was it a ricochet?
Or a blast front?
Pictures would be neat.
Tj
82-2308
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342956#342956
Message 11
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Agree with all said. Your comments bring peace of mind. I plan to run her up
again maybe this afternoon but not if ambient temp is 100 F as predicted.
I am looking, as you said, at what changed. What changed is two new
cylinders. I found that the paper seal that Jill supplies for the intake
gasket was too thick and that the trumpet end of the intake on #3 had a gap
of 20/1000ths wide on about 1/4 of its diameter. I replaced the intake tubes
with newer ones off my other engine in the back that I am slowly rebuilding.
I replaced the rubber supercharger intake seals with new ones from Jill. I
still have to pull all the plugs and re-gap them...again. I plan to pull all
the valve covers and check the lash one more time.
As you said, I'm going to bore scope it again since she was run up Sunday
afternoon. I thought about pulling a lower intake tube to look at the
underside of the supercharger turbine...but you know...given a little time
to think one can imagine all sorts of bad shit.
As far as I know the rags plugging the intake ports on the accessory case
were not screwed with and hopefully nothing was dropped in there. That could
cause a valve to stick.
I have drained oil out of her twice now from the nose case sump. I have run
a magnet through it and have strained it through a mesh cloth. Nothing but
carbon fragments found in very small amounts. I'm using the 4 micron mesh
that is used to catch kidney stones. Some Viruses can't pass through that
shit. If it is there I should catch it.
This is freeking weird...I hate damned Zebras!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I have found that when I have people standing around asking questions when I
work on something, I invariably will FU... excuse me... will
invariably mess it up. When you are putting your hands on something as
important as an aircraft engine, get everyone that is not directly involved
OUT OF THE HANGAR. Sometimes their feelings will get hurt:
"HEY WE JUST WANT TO WATCH AND LEARN!" Tough banouchee's! Kick them
the heck out. This is not an EAA event, it is an aircraft engine repair
and there is no room for distractions.
I have made the same mistake myself and have paid the price. Now.... so
have you. Time for us all to learn from it.
As to your engine: My 40 years of working on military aircraft have taught
me one thing. If something is not working, it is almost ALWAYS related to
where humans recently laid their hands. You just changed two cylinders.
The engine was running just fine before you did that. Now it is not running
well and it is doing something weird. You did not touch the mags... leave
them alone. Do not change the gap on the plugs from what worked before. If
it worked before, it should work now.
Don't go changing anything that has ALWAYS worked before.
This engine has a common intake fed by a blower. This intake then has
individual intake tubes that feed up to individual cylinders. If you have a
bad leak on any one intake, that leak has the capability to impact the
mixture to ALL of the cylinders. Remember that an intake leak can go BOTH
DIRECTIONS. If you have the engine developing less manifold pressure than
what outside ambient air pressure is, then the
leak can be air going in, and not fuel mixture going out. The motor
has a blower, so at some settings and at some altitudes, stuff can come out
and at other settings "stuff" can come in.
So it is really down to one of two things:
1. Something came apart and is rattling around inside. Which seems
unlikely unless some idiot let a wrist pin cap fall off as the cylinder was
installed. (This has happened before). If this happened, you would see
metal in the filter by now.
2. There is some kind of bad intake leak. Fix that. If you can't find any
leaks, look some more. If you still can't find any, get someone else to
come look.
3. Don't touch the mags. They did not just pick this moment in time to
switch to some kind of ultra advanced condition unless you found them LOOSE
to begin with.
4. Borescope anything and everything you want to. Always a good idea.
Just my two cents.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Running 100 LL with MMO all the time.
Concur with airborne mag thoughts
Found the #3 intake had 20/1000ths space along the edge of the trumpet when
I loosened the collar. The intake tube had been knocked off the wing by a
curious George milling around while I was working asking the usual torrid of
useless questions coming from a none round motor driver of spam cans at the
EAA meeting in my hanger. So at the least, I had an air leak on #3. Have
left the intake drain on #4,5, and 6 open before with this kind of BS.
But
will that cause the plugs to be tapped down on #1, #3, and #4 the first time
I experienced the misfire. Then after changing all the plugs, scoping the
cylinders, rechecking the valve lash, replacing the supercharger intake
seals on #1 and #3 ( the replaced cylinders), the monster raises its'
head
on #6??!!! Both fore and aft plugs were tapped down onto the element.
Still have not pulled the mag caps and checked the rotor/cap for arching nor
have I gotten to check the points and the rivet in the base plate. That is
next.
Ran her up yesterday for about 10 mins to 80% with what felt like a normal
rumbling M-14. Have not strapped her down and pushed it up to 100% yet.
A
few more things before I go there.
Scoping the effected cylinders did not reveal any foreign bodies, valves
with chips of cracks on them, no bright areas around the valve seat lip
suggestive of burning and there was, as you said, a boat load of clearance
between the piston and plugs.
And...the epic #$%^&*@ saga continues!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tjyak50
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:46 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
There is about a mile of clearance from the top of the piston to the plug in
those hemi-heads.
Are you running 100LL or some other fuel? Detonation simply from being lean
with stock compression ratio at low power on good 100LL seems unlikely to
me. If you had really bad gas maybe another story.
Mechanical "FOD" of some type? Something small enough to get past the
intake grate and sucked into the compressor then slung out to various
cylinders causing plug damage, pitting, valve damage and intake backfires
due to the valve stuck open?
Airborn mag check: the big thing you are checking for is smoothness.
The
prop gov will maintain the selected RPM so any rpm variation you might see
is different from the ground mag check when the prop is fixed pitch on the
low-pitch stops.
Please keep us posted.
TJ
Yak 50
www.airpowerinsurance.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342863#342863
Message 12
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Tj,
Your comments are priceless...and appreciated also. Blast front vs. glow
plug secondary to the heat build-up in the cylinder essentially weakening
the element. Don't know. Will try to take some pixs of the plugs...maybe
this afternoon...have too many alligators in my office right now...
Did not take the mags or the generator off to change the cylinders or the
intake tubes. Did take the #1, #2 and #3 exhaust stacks off though. They are
not leaking from what I can tell.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T A LEWIS
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
tjyak50 ,
On my engine I have had to move and or remove the mags several times while
working on the plug wires , engine mounts and the generator . It is possible
that the mags ,or a mag , was moved to removethe cylinders and the
associated pistons.
Looky-Loo
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: tjyak50 <tomjohnson@cox.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 1:17:10 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
I second Marks comments. Looky-loos with random ideas are distracting.
Looky-loos with random ideas spread thousands of miles away on the internet?
-Priceless!
The odd thing is how your spark plug electrodes got physically damaged.
What force physically smashed them down against the center thing?
Was it a ricochet?
Or a blast front?
Pictures would be neat.
Tj
82-2308
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342956#342956
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Liberty bell |
You are free to do that...and it certainly would not be the first time.
Lets review my post line by line:
"Was the fuel problem the cause of the inflight fire"
Asked a question..did not make a statement. Some here have spoken to people close
to the airplane and have indicated there was a known issue with the fuel system.
Could have been a leak, a failed pump, ect..hence why I asked the question.
"why were there pax on board with a known maintenance deficiency"
As indicated in a previous post, there was a known maintenance issue that required
the airplane to be ferried for mx. I am curious as to why pax would be on
board with a writeup...especially for fuel. Again, asked a question, did not make
a statement.
"A huge loss"
Do you disagree with this point?
"and it appears at first glance, one that might have been preventable."
Note the bold. From what I have read here, in the media (taken with due caution)
and from other sources, there was an outstanding mx issue of some sort. I hope
that the final cause of the accident does not point to that. What the crew
did was amazing and their efforts to salvage the airplane and her occupants are
certainly nothing short of amazing.
Having flown and crewed a B-17, I under these airplanes are "fragile" and do not
have the safety systems we have today. These airplanes were not built to last
much past the war. It is a testament to Boeing, and the crews and volunteers
who fly and maintain them, that they have survived to be enjoyed by millions
but also stand as a reminder of the men who took them to war, many that I have
met and the pleasure to fly.
It is a massive loss to the community and to anyone who loves these memorials as
I do. I truly hope this was simply an unfortunate failure of a system unknown
to the crew until it revealed itself in flight.
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
> I do not agree with your posting Tim.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342962#342962
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The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for
Doc. In fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
Message 15
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Dennis ,
My observation about the mags was not an accusation . What I have seen as a
flight engr . on both
the R2800 and R3350 and other internal combustion engines is that detonation is
a mixture or timing
problemanddoes notflatten the electrodes of a plug. Broken valves or their
parts usually are the culprit .
What confidence level do you have that the pistons now installed are exactly the
same as the
ones that were removes .
"Lookie -lou"
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 4:29:38 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for Doc. In
fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
Message 16
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Terry, I didn't take it as an accusation. I was simply stating that I
removed the two cylinders for Doc and on the M14, it does not require
removal of the magnetos. Doc's detonation issue was definitely a
mixture issue caused by an intake leak.
The pistons can not under any circumstances strike the spark plugs in an
M14. The M14 cylinder combustion chamber is hemispherical and no stock
flat piston in the M14 can be "pushed" into the combustion chamber
without causing serious damage. One revolution and bingo, the engine
would be trashed. Now that speaks for the two cylinders that were
replaced and the spark plug ground element was moved against the
electrode of the spark plug on these two cylinders (these are automotive
spark plugs). There is no explanation as to why the spark plugs in #4
(an original cylinder) were also with the ground element against the
electrode and then again last Sat-Sun on #6, another of the original
cylinders. After removal of the second intake gasket on the cylinder
intake insert (the replacement cylinders were shipped with the gaskets
already installed) and installation of the replacement intake tubes,
the engine was run up to 80%, mag drop was checked and normal and upon
shut down temperature readings were taken on all cylinders. Temps were
just fine.
Dennis
On 6/14/2011 5:04 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: T A LEWIS<talew@bellsouth.net>
>
> Dennis ,
> My observation about the mags was not an accusation . What I have seen as a
> flight engr . on both
> the R2800 and R3350 and other internal combustion engines is that detonation
is
> a mixture or timing
>
> problem and does not flatten the electrodes of a plug . Broken valves or their
> parts usually are the culprit .
> What confidence level do you have that the pistons now installed are exactly
the
> same as the
>
> ones that were removes .
> "Lookie -lou"
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 4:29:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for Doc.
In
> fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
Message 17
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Thanks for the reply Dennis ,
That answers the detonation mystery . As to the plugs , I read that someone was
advocating using
a longer plug to avoid oil contaminationon the bottom plugs . That would be a
hotter plug an not an asset
on this engine . I am sure that Doc is using the correct plug . Lets see if the
mixture cures the plug flattening .
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:30:52 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Terry, I didn't take it as an accusation. I was simply stating that I removed
the two cylinders for Doc and on the M14, it does not require removal of the
magnetos. Doc's detonation issue was definitely a mixture issue caused by an
intake leak.
The pistons can not under any circumstances strike the spark plugs in an M14.
The M14 cylinder combustion chamber is hemispherical and no stock flat piston in
the M14 can be "pushed" into the combustion chamber without causing serious
damage. One revolution and bingo, the engine would be trashed. Now that speaks
for the two cylinders that were replaced and the spark plug ground element was
moved against the electrode of the spark plug on these two cylinders (these are
automotive spark plugs). There is no explanation as to why the spark plugs in
#4 (an original cylinder) were also with the ground element against the
electrode and then again last Sat-Sun on #6, another of the original cylinders.
After removal of the second intake gasket on the cylinder intake insert (the
replacement cylinders were shipped with the gaskets already installed) and
installation of the replacement intake tubes, the engine was run up to 80%, mag
drop was checked and normal and upon shut down temperature readings were taken
on all cylinders. Temps were just fine.
Dennis
On 6/14/2011 5:04 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:
>
> Dennis ,
> My observation about the mags was not an accusation . What I have seen as a
> flight engr . on both
> the R2800 and R3350 and other internal combustion engines is that detonation
is
> a mixture or timing
>
> problem and does not flatten the electrodes of a plug . Broken valves or their
> parts usually are the culprit .
> What confidence level do you have that the pistons now installed are exactly
>the
> same as the
>
> ones that were removes .
> "Lookie -lou"
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 4:29:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for Doc.
In
> fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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Terry,
I'm using the NGK br6 plugs which are the same as what I started with almost
5 years ago now. I change the plugs each year generally throwing away a set
of plugs with only 20 to 30 hours on them. I just took some pictures of the
elements on the plugs from one of the offended cylinders. Will upload them
later this evening. Have to run some errands for the practice right now.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T A LEWIS
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Thanks for the reply Dennis ,
That answers the detonation mystery . As to the plugs , I read that someone
was advocating using a longer plug to avoid oil contaminationon the bottom
plugs . That would be a hotter plug an not an asset on this engine . I am
sure that Doc is using the correct plug . Lets see if the mixture cures the
plug flattening .
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:30:52 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Terry, I didn't take it as an accusation. I was simply stating that I
removed the two cylinders for Doc and on the M14, it does not require
removal of the magnetos. Doc's detonation issue was definitely a mixture
issue caused by an intake leak.
The pistons can not under any circumstances strike the spark plugs in an
M14. The M14 cylinder combustion chamber is hemispherical and no stock flat
piston in the M14 can be "pushed" into the combustion chamber without
causing serious damage. One revolution and bingo, the engine would be
trashed. Now that speaks for the two cylinders that were replaced and the
spark plug ground element was moved against the electrode of the spark plug
on these two cylinders (these are automotive spark plugs). There is no
explanation as to why the spark plugs in
#4 (an original cylinder) were also with the ground element against the
electrode and then again last Sat-Sun on #6, another of the original
cylinders. After removal of the second intake gasket on the cylinder intake
insert (the replacement cylinders were shipped with the gaskets already
installed) and installation of the replacement intake tubes, the engine was
run up to 80%, mag drop was checked and normal and upon shut down
temperature readings were taken on all cylinders. Temps were just fine.
Dennis
On 6/14/2011 5:04 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:
>
> Dennis ,
> My observation about the mags was not an accusation . What I have
> seen as a flight engr . on both the R2800 and R3350 and other internal
> combustion engines is that detonation
is
> a mixture or timing
>
> problem and does not flatten the electrodes of a plug . Broken valves
>or their parts usually are the culprit .
> What confidence level do you have that the pistons now installed are
>exactly the same as the
>
> ones that were removes .
> "Lookie -lou"
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 4:29:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for
> Doc.
In
> fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Nice Yak-50 For Sale |
Regrettably, the time has come to part with my Yak-50. It's a great airframe
that will give the lucky buyer years of fun, just like it has for me. The -50
has great performance, great lines, and is a real performer. All the good
things about Yaks, with less weight and less drag. Whether you like to do
gentleman's aerobatics or pull tons of G, this plane will make you look and feel
good while doing it.
If you're interested, please contact me at harry@hirschman.com because I don't
check this email address very often. Or call 650-619-5108. It's listed on
Barnstormers at $79,995.
http://barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search
Description:
640 TTAF; 555 TTE
M-14P 360 horsepower, 9-cylinder radial engine
MTV-3, 250 cm three-blade propeller
Enlarged auxiliary fuel tank 37.9 gallons total
King digital comm radio
King KT-76 transponder (both mounted on center pedestal)
JPI Fuel Flow
Additional Improvements and Modifications:
Vortex generators (wing and tail); ADC oil filter; Ratcheting seat belts;
Baggage compartment with easy access to tailcone; Wingtip fairings; US ignition
harness and spark plugs; Plug-in oil tank warmer; US Military stick grip; Grimes
C/P light; GPS antennae and GPS power; Halon fire extinguisher in C/P; Swage
lock master air system valve; US fittings on landing gear nitrogen fill ports;
Snot valve in cockpit; Master battery switch-breaker (security switch); C/P
sidewall pockets
Message 20
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Doc ,
I would have bet on that . I have several friends that are doctors and they
would not
go on a limblike that either . But like a docif you don'task, well ,you
don't know where
to go next .
I did not know Dennis was on the case or I would have framed my inquires
different . My CJ has
his ignition system so I know Dennis by reputation . I now have confidence that
you will find the
answer .
Terry Lewis
oops!
I almost forgot .
Looky- loo
----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 7:27:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Terry,
I'm using the NGK br6 plugs which are the same as what I started with almost
5 years ago now. I change the plugs each year generally throwing away a set
of plugs with only 20 to 30 hours on them. I just took some pictures of the
elements on the plugs from one of the offended cylinders. Will upload them
later this evening. Have to run some errands for the practice right now.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T A LEWIS
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Thanks for the reply Dennis ,
That answers the detonation mystery . As to the plugs , I read that someone
was advocating using a longer plug to avoid oil contaminationon the bottom
plugs . That would be a hotter plug an not an asset on this engine . I am
sure that Doc is using the correct plug . Lets see if the mixture cures the
plug flattening .
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:30:52 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Terry, I didn't take it as an accusation. I was simply stating that I
removed the two cylinders for Doc and on the M14, it does not require
removal of the magnetos. Doc's detonation issue was definitely a mixture
issue caused by an intake leak.
The pistons can not under any circumstances strike the spark plugs in an
M14. The M14 cylinder combustion chamber is hemispherical and no stock flat
piston in the M14 can be "pushed" into the combustion chamber without
causing serious damage. One revolution and bingo, the engine would be
trashed. Now that speaks for the two cylinders that were replaced and the
spark plug ground element was moved against the electrode of the spark plug
on these two cylinders (these are automotive spark plugs). There is no
explanation as to why the spark plugs in
#4 (an original cylinder) were also with the ground element against the
electrode and then again last Sat-Sun on #6, another of the original
cylinders. After removal of the second intake gasket on the cylinder intake
insert (the replacement cylinders were shipped with the gaskets already
installed) and installation of the replacement intake tubes, the engine was
run up to 80%, mag drop was checked and normal and upon shut down
temperature readings were taken on all cylinders. Temps were just fine.
Dennis
On 6/14/2011 5:04 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:
>
> Dennis ,
> My observation about the mags was not an accusation . What I have
> seen as a flight engr . on both the R2800 and R3350 and other internal
> combustion engines is that detonation
is
> a mixture or timing
>
> problem and does not flatten the electrodes of a plug . Broken valves
>or their parts usually are the culprit .
> What confidence level do you have that the pistons now installed are
>exactly the same as the
>
> ones that were removes .
> "Lookie -lou"
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 4:29:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for
> Doc.
In
> fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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Guys. my stock CJ6 G meter has three needles. Can anyone tell me how they should
work? Thanks.
Paul Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342995#342995
Message 22
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| Subject: | Offending Spark Plugs |
For those inquiring minds that wanted to see the dead plugs. Here they are.
Doc
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Starving Student needs help |
U R kidding?
Bill
On Jun 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> Larry, I looked at your survey and some of the questions need fixing.
>
> Send me the list of questions to mark.bitterlich@navy.mil and I will
> show you what I am talking about.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Pine
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 9:39 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Starving Student needs help
>
> OK folks, I need the Red Star group to rally together to help one of
> there own. Last week I asked if our members would help me with a survey
> to gather information for a Masters thesis I'm working on. The thesis
> will be a cost analysis of general aviation. Unfortunately, the numbers
> of responses I received were far less than the number of responses I
> need. So, usually I would not resort to begging but in this case I'm
> not above such tactics. So, Please if you have not participated and
> would like to help me out, please click the link below. It is a short
> survey that will only take 1 minute. All information is confidential
> and anonymous. Information will not be shared and not tracking of
> volunteers is done.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CQPS997
> <https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CQPS997>
>
> A QUANTITATIVE LOOK AT THE COST OF OWNERSHIP AND GENERAL AVIATION
> FLYING: KNOWING WHEN TO SAY WHEN S
> <https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CQPS997>
>
> Thank you
> "Spook"
> Larry Pine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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Terry,
I posted pix of the one of the plugs. Hope they made it through the com
Nazis.
I'm just looking for answers. Not offended by anything. All questions and
all answers are considered. This is my rosie pink that is sitting behind
this this thing.
Seems I am always running across the Zebras or is it just the "Full Moon"?!!
Just ready to put this crazy quirk behind me. So back to pulling all the
plugs, rechecking the gaps, rechecking the valve lash, scoping all the
cylinders, pull a lower super charger intake tube to look at the lower
gravity side of the supercharger, burn SOAP samples on the before cylinder
change oil and the after cylinder replacement oil, run a magnet in the
cylinders (all 9), and still trying to find a rentable smoke generator to
pressurize the supercharger via the manifold pressure line to look for any
other leak somewhere else?!! If all else fails, I am not opposed to pulling
the danged engine off and completely rebuilding the danged thing. Then try
to do all this crap in a couple of days!
Just starting to get frustrated. Uh almost forgot...MMO fixes everything!
Still love that rumbling radial though...but that YAK 9 on Barnstormers is
looking awfully appealing but the grass is always greener on the other side
of the fence. More expensive to feed and water too!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T A LEWIS
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Doc ,
I would have bet on that . I have several friends that are doctors and they
would not
go on a limblike that either . But like a docif you don'task, well ,you
don't know where to go next .
I did not know Dennis was on the case or I would have framed my inquires
different . My CJ has his ignition system so I know Dennis by reputation . I
now have confidence that you will find the
answer .
Terry Lewis
oops!
I almost forgot .
Looky- loo
----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 7:27:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Terry,
I'm using the NGK br6 plugs which are the same as what I started with almost
5 years ago now. I change the plugs each year generally throwing away a set
of plugs with only 20 to 30 hours on them. I just took some pictures of the
elements on the plugs from one of the offended cylinders. Will upload them
later this evening. Have to run some errands for the practice right now.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T A LEWIS
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
Thanks for the reply Dennis ,
That answers the detonation mystery . As to the plugs , I read that someone
was advocating using a longer plug to avoid oil contaminationon the bottom
plugs . That would be a hotter plug an not an asset on this engine . I am
sure that Doc is using the correct plug . Lets see if the mixture cures the
plug flattening .
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message ----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:30:52 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Terry, I didn't take it as an accusation. I was simply stating that I
removed the two cylinders for Doc and on the M14, it does not require
removal of the magnetos. Doc's detonation issue was definitely a mixture
issue caused by an intake leak.
The pistons can not under any circumstances strike the spark plugs in an
M14. The M14 cylinder combustion chamber is hemispherical and no stock flat
piston in the M14 can be "pushed" into the combustion chamber without
causing serious damage. One revolution and bingo, the engine would be
trashed. Now that speaks for the two cylinders that were replaced and the
spark plug ground element was moved against the electrode of the spark plug
on these two cylinders (these are automotive spark plugs). There is no
explanation as to why the spark plugs in
#4 (an original cylinder) were also with the ground element against the
electrode and then again last Sat-Sun on #6, another of the original
cylinders. After removal of the second intake gasket on the cylinder intake
insert (the replacement cylinders were shipped with the gaskets already
installed) and installation of the replacement intake tubes, the engine was
run up to 80%, mag drop was checked and normal and upon shut down
temperature readings were taken on all cylinders. Temps were just fine.
Dennis
On 6/14/2011 5:04 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:
>
> Dennis ,
> My observation about the mags was not an accusation . What I have
> seen as a flight engr . on both the R2800 and R3350 and other internal
> combustion engines is that detonation
is
> a mixture or timing
>
> problem and does not flatten the electrodes of a plug . Broken valves
>or their parts usually are the culprit .
> What confidence level do you have that the pistons now installed are
>exactly the same as the
>
> ones that were removes .
> "Lookie -lou"
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 4:29:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Detonation
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> The mags were not removed or moved because I removed the cylinders for
> Doc.
In
> fact, I have never, ever removed mags to remove cylinders before.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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A guess...one should read the negative G, one the instant positive G, and
one the total G. At least that is the way I've seen some of the three needle
G meters I've run across. The last needle is like a totalizer needle for the
flight.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 G Meter
Guys. my stock CJ6 G meter has three needles. Can anyone tell me how they
should work? Thanks.
Paul Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342995#342995
Message 26
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If it is a "standard" G meter there are two recording needles (pos. & neg.)
and one floating needle reading both but not recording either.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Okanogan Lew" <vplewis@community.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:04 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 G Meter
>
> Guys. my stock CJ6 G meter has three needles. Can anyone tell me how they
> should work? Thanks.
>
> Paul Lewis
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342995#342995
>
>
>
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Mine has three... one for max negative Gs, One for max positive Gs and one
for real time Gs....
Larry Pine
--- On Tue, 6/14/11, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: CJ6 G Meter
A guess...one should read the negative G, one the instant positive G, and
one the total G. At least that is the way I've seen some of the three needl
e
G meters I've run across. The last needle is like a totalizer needle for th
e
flight.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Okanogan Lew
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 G Meter
Guys. my stock CJ6 G meter has three needles.- Can anyone tell me how the
y
should work?- Thanks.
Paul Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342995#342995
le, List Admin.
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