Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Paul Lewis)
3. 09:06 AM - Re: Electric Fuel Pump (barryhancock)
4. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Roger Kemp M.D.)
5. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Brian Lloyd)
6. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Brian Lloyd)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Roger Baker)
8. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Larry Pine)
11. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Brian Lloyd)
12. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Eric Wobschall)
13. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Roger Baker)
14. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Warren Hill)
15. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Brian Lloyd)
16. 05:56 PM - WxWorx REWX9ID USB Weather Receiver For Sale... (Matt Dralle)
17. 05:57 PM - Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Vic)
18. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (Walter Lannon)
19. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Electric Fuel Pump (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line
coming from the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is
the input line to the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's
primer pump primes the "system" side when turned to the left as well as
the "cylinder" side when turned to the right. By putting the electric
pump in this line, all one would have to do is rotate the primer pump
handle to the left (the system side) and turn on the pump thus pumping
fuel through the fuel system into the carburetor. This would work
extremely well should the engine driven fuel pump give up the ghost.
Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping fuel into the supercharger and
hoping the fuel/air mixture is reasonably correct to keep the engine
running.
Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder side
(ie: into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the primer
pump handle to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a few
seconds.
I believe this should also work in the 50 since the 50's primer pump
functions the same way (opposite directions though I believe) as the 52's.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 7/1/2011 7:56 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
> Will work for the 52 but the system does not exist on the 50. Next
> question what is the volume of fuel this system dumps into the
> supercharger?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com
> <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bill Geipel <czech6@mesanetworks.net
>> <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>> wrote:
>>
>> <czech6@mesanetworks.net <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>>
>>
>> If I can get away from pumping and use the panel space for
>> something else I'll do it. Now what?
>> I'll take one. How much?
>>
>>
>> It seems dead-nuts simple to me. Put in a Facet fuel pump of
>> sufficient capacity in place of the wobble pump. Replumb the
>> oil-dilution solenoid valve to to dump fuel into the primer port
>> instead of the oil sump. (I cannot imagine anyone using oil dilution
>> these days.) I am surprised that it hasn't been done in all CJ's.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>> 3191 Western Dr.
>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> brian@lloyd.com <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>
>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
Is the Facet avalible in 24 volt or do you have to do a 12 volt conversion?
Paul Lewis
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:34 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line coming
> from the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is the input
> line to the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's primer pump
> primes the "system" side when turned to the left as well as the "cylinder"
> side when turned to the right. By putting the electric pump in this line,
> all one would have to do is rotate the primer pump handle to the left (the
> system side) and turn on the pump thus pumping fuel through the fuel system
> into the carburetor. This would work extremely well should the engine
> driven fuel pump give up the ghost. Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping
> fuel into the supercharger and hoping the fuel/air mixture is reasonably
> correct to keep the engine running.
>
> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder side
> (ie: into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the primer
> pump handle to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a few
> seconds.
>
> I believe this should also work in the 50 since the 50's primer pump
> functions the same way (opposite directions though I believe) as the 52's.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
> On 7/1/2011 7:56 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>
>> Will work for the 52 but the system does not exist on the 50. Next
>> question what is the volume of fuel this system dumps into the supercharger?
>> Doc
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com <mailto:
>> brian@lloyd.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bill Geipel <czech6@mesanetworks.net<mailto:
>>> czech6@mesanetworks.**net <czech6@mesanetworks.net>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <czech6@mesanetworks.net <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.**net<czech6@mesanetworks.net>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I can get away from pumping and use the panel space for
>>> something else I'll do it. Now what?
>>> I'll take one. How much?
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems dead-nuts simple to me. Put in a Facet fuel pump of sufficient
>>> capacity in place of the wobble pump. Replumb the oil-dilution solenoid
>>> valve to to dump fuel into the primer port instead of the oil sump. (I
>>> cannot imagine anyone using oil dilution these days.) I am surprised that it
>>> hasn't been done in all CJ's.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>>> 3191 Western Dr.
>>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>> brian@lloyd.com <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>
>>>
>>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
Two more things I should mention on this:
1) We have specially made machined fittings that are metric on one side and AN
on the other to allow for easy installation into the existing plumbing. Our
rule on kits is if we can't make it easy for the end user, we won't make it.
This adds to the up front expense, obviously (machined specialty fittings are
not cheap), but makes it more economical and safer in the long run.
2) To clarify about Dennis's comment of the system dumping fuel in the supercharger
if the engine driven pump fails...our system DOES NOT do that. This is
what the solenoid is for....prime side of the switch puts fuel in the supercharger,
boost side of the switch puts it to the carb. Again, the switch is momentary
up for prime, off middle, and on down for boost.
Happy Flying,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344690#344690
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
The system works as is. Now i'm adding one more thing to fail.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 2, 2011, at 8:34 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>
> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line coming from
the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is the input line to
the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's primer pump primes the "system"
side when turned to the left as well as the "cylinder" side when turned
to the right. By putting the electric pump in this line, all one would have
to do is rotate the primer pump handle to the left (the system side) and turn
on the pump thus pumping fuel through the fuel system into the carburetor. This
would work extremely well should the engine driven fuel pump give up the ghost.
Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping fuel into the supercharger and hoping
the fuel/air mixture is reasonably correct to keep the engine running.
>
> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder side (ie:
into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the primer pump handle
to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a few seconds.
>
> I believe this should also work in the 50 since the 50's primer pump functions
the same way (opposite directions though I believe) as the 52's.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
> On 7/1/2011 7:56 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>> Will work for the 52 but the system does not exist on the 50. Next question
what is the volume of fuel this system dumps into the supercharger?
>> Doc
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bill Geipel <czech6@mesanetworks.net <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <czech6@mesanetworks.net <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>>
>>>
>>> If I can get away from pumping and use the panel space for
>>> something else I'll do it. Now what?
>>> I'll take one. How much?
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems dead-nuts simple to me. Put in a Facet fuel pump of sufficient capacity
in place of the wobble pump. Replumb the oil-dilution solenoid valve to
to dump fuel into the primer port instead of the oil sump. (I cannot imagine anyone
using oil dilution these days.) I am surprised that it hasn't been done
in all CJ's.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>>> 3191 Western Dr.
>>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>> brian@lloyd.com <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>
>>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:34 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line coming
> from the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is the input
> line to the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's primer pump
> primes the "system" side when turned to the left as well as the "cylinder"
> side when turned to the right. By putting the electric pump in this line,
> all one would have to do is rotate the primer pump handle to the left (the
> system side) and turn on the pump thus pumping fuel through the fuel system
> into the carburetor. This would work extremely well should the engine
> driven fuel pump give up the ghost. Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping
> fuel into the supercharger and hoping the fuel/air mixture is reasonably
> correct to keep the engine running.
>
> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder side
> (ie: into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the primer
> pump handle to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a few
> seconds.
>
I have always thought of the primer/fuel pump in the Yak-52 to be the
achilles' heel of the Yak-52 fuel system. I have yet to see one that doesn't
leak. IMHO the Facet pump is an order of magnitude more reliable than the
manual pump. So switching to an electric pump buys you several things:
1. an improvement in fuel system integrity;
2. an improvement in fuel system reliability;
3. ability to have an adequate fuel flow should the mechanical pump pack
it in without manual input;
4. get fuel off the instrument panel.
I could probably go on. Unfortunately I am not going to finish off my
project but it was going to have a facet fuel pump replacing the wobble pump
and the oil-dilution system was going to become the primer. A single
off-on-momentary switch was going to be the boost-pump/primer switch. Left
would be off. Center would be boost-pump on. Right would be spring-loaded
and would engage the oil-dilution solenoid valve to dump fuel into the
supercharger for priming. This makes sense because the boost pump has to be
on for the primer to work anyway.
But it does sound like Barry has done all the engineering to make it easy to
do. This would certainly be one of my first mods if I had a flying CJ. Now
for some smart boy or girl to do it for the Yak-52, which IMHO, is worse off
than the CJ.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Paul Lewis <okanoganlew@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the Facet avalible in 24 volt or do you have to do a 12 volt conversion?
>
Facet fuel pumps are a main-stay of GA aircraft. They have been used in
production aircraft for years. They are available in both 14V and 28V
versions.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
In about 1500 hours of flying several different Yak 52's over a period
of 12 years, I've had ONE primer leak...easily fixed.
To me, not a big deal.
Roger
Baker________________________________________________________________
On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:34 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line
coming from the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is
the input line to the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's
primer pump primes the "system" side when turned to the left as well as
the "cylinder" side when turned to the right. By putting the electric
pump in this line, all one would have to do is rotate the primer pump
handle to the left (the system side) and turn on the pump thus pumping
fuel through the fuel system into the carburetor. This would work
extremely well should the engine driven fuel pump give up the ghost.
Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping fuel into the supercharger and
hoping the fuel/air mixture is reasonably correct to keep the engine
running.
>
> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder
side (ie: into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the
primer pump handle to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a
few seconds.
>
> I have always thought of the primer/fuel pump in the Yak-52 to be the
achilles' heel of the Yak-52 fuel system. I have yet to see one that
doesn't leak. IMHO the Facet pump is an order of magnitude more reliable
than the manual pump. So switching to an electric pump buys you several
things:
> an improvement in fuel system integrity;
> an improvement in fuel system reliability;
> ability to have an adequate fuel flow should the mechanical pump pack
it in without manual input;
> get fuel off the instrument panel.
> I could probably go on. Unfortunately I am not going to finish off my
project but it was going to have a facet fuel pump replacing the wobble
pump and the oil-dilution system was going to become the primer. A
single off-on-momentary switch was going to be the boost-pump/primer
switch. Left would be off. Center would be boost-pump on. Right would be
spring-loaded and would engage the oil-dilution solenoid valve to dump
fuel into the supercharger for priming. This makes sense because the
boost pump has to be on for the primer to work anyway.
>
> But it does sound like Barry has done all the engineering to make it
easy to do. This would certainly be one of my first mods if I had a
flying CJ. Now for some smart boy or girl to do it for the Yak-52, which
IMHO, is worse off than the CJ.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
It is available in 24 volts.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 7/2/2011 10:22 AM, Paul Lewis wrote:
> Is the Facet avalible in 24 volt or do you have to do a 12 volt
> conversion?
> Paul Lewis
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:34 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>
> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line
> coming from the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line
> which is the input line to the 52's primer pump? As everyone
> knows, the 52's primer pump primes the "system" side when turned
> to the left as well as the "cylinder" side when turned to the
> right. By putting the electric pump in this line, all one would
> have to do is rotate the primer pump handle to the left (the
> system side) and turn on the pump thus pumping fuel through the
> fuel system into the carburetor. This would work extremely well
> should the engine driven fuel pump give up the ghost. Thus the
> fuel is metered vs. pumping fuel into the supercharger and hoping
> the fuel/air mixture is reasonably correct to keep the engine running.
>
> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder
> side (ie: into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn
> the primer pump handle to the right and turn on the electric fuel
> pump for a few seconds.
>
> I believe this should also work in the 50 since the 50's primer
> pump functions the same way (opposite directions though I believe)
> as the 52's.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263 <tel:334-285-6263>
> 334-546-8182 <tel:334-546-8182> (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
>
>
> On 7/1/2011 7:56 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>
> Will work for the 52 but the system does not exist on the 50.
> Next question what is the volume of fuel this system dumps
> into the supercharger?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com
> <mailto:brian@lloyd.com> <mailto:brian@lloyd.com
> <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>>> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bill Geipel
> <czech6@mesanetworks.net <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>
> <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net
> <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>>> wrote:
>
> <czech6@mesanetworks.net <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>
> <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net
> <mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>>>
>
>
> If I can get away from pumping and use the panel space for
> something else I'll do it. Now what?
> I'll take one. How much?
>
>
> It seems dead-nuts simple to me. Put in a Facet fuel pump
> of sufficient capacity in place of the wobble pump.
> Replumb the oil-dilution solenoid valve to to dump fuel
> into the primer port instead of the oil sump. (I cannot
> imagine anyone using oil dilution these days.) I am
> surprised that it hasn't been done in all CJ's.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>
> <mailto:brian@lloyd.com <mailto:brian@lloyd.com>>
>
> +1.767.617.1365 <tel:%2B1.767.617.1365> (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 <tel:%2B1.916.877.5067> (USA)
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
Definitely a point to consider.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 7/2/2011 11:09 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp M.D."<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> The system works as is. Now i'm adding one more thing to fail.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 2, 2011, at 8:34 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line coming from
the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is the input line
to the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's primer pump primes the "system"
side when turned to the left as well as the "cylinder" side when turned
to the right. By putting the electric pump in this line, all one would have
to do is rotate the primer pump handle to the left (the system side) and turn
on the pump thus pumping fuel through the fuel system into the carburetor. This
would work extremely well should the engine driven fuel pump give up the ghost.
Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping fuel into the supercharger and hoping
the fuel/air mixture is reasonably correct to keep the engine running.
>>
>> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder side (ie:
into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the primer pump handle
to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a few seconds.
>>
>> I believe this should also work in the 50 since the 50's primer pump functions
the same way (opposite directions though I believe) as the 52's.
>> Dennis
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>> Skype: Yakguy1
>> www.yak-52.com
>>
>>
>> On 7/1/2011 7:56 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>>> Will work for the 52 but the system does not exist on the 50. Next question
what is the volume of fuel this system dumps into the supercharger?
>>> Doc
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Brian Lloyd<brian@lloyd.com<mailto:brian@lloyd.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bill Geipel<czech6@mesanetworks.net<mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel
>>>> <czech6@mesanetworks.net<mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>>
>>>>
>>>> If I can get away from pumping and use the panel space for
>>>> something else I'll do it. Now what?
>>>> I'll take one. How much?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems dead-nuts simple to me. Put in a Facet fuel pump of sufficient capacity
in place of the wobble pump. Replumb the oil-dilution solenoid valve to
to dump fuel into the primer port instead of the oil sump. (I cannot imagine
anyone using oil dilution these days.) I am surprised that it hasn't been done
in all CJ's.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>>>> 3191 Western Dr.
>>>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>> brian@lloyd.com<mailto:brian@lloyd.com>
>>>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>>>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
As for the CJ... The A-Model of anything can use improvement..
Larry Pine
N8181C
CJ6/m14p
"A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>Definitely a point to consider.
>
>A. Dennis Savarese
>334-285-6263
>334-546-8182 (cell)
>Skype: Yakguy1
>www.yak-52.com
>
>
>On 7/2/2011 11:09 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp M.D."<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> The system works as is. Now i'm adding one more thing to fail.
>> Doc
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2011, at 8:34 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> For the 52, I'm wondering why not install a Facet pump in the line coming from
the fuel junction below the front seat (a 6mm line which is the input line
to the 52's primer pump? As everyone knows, the 52's primer pump primes the
"system" side when turned to the left as well as the "cylinder" side when turned
to the right. By putting the electric pump in this line, all one would have
to do is rotate the primer pump handle to the left (the system side) and turn
on the pump thus pumping fuel through the fuel system into the carburetor.
This would work extremely well should the engine driven fuel pump give up the
ghost. Thus the fuel is metered vs. pumping fuel into the supercharger and hoping
the fuel/air mixture is reasonably correct to keep the engine running.
>>>
>>> Also, if one wanted to use the electric pump to prime the cylinder side (ie:
into the supercharger), all one would have to do is turn the primer pump handle
to the right and turn on the electric fuel pump for a few seconds.
>>>
>>> I believe this should also work in the 50 since the 50's primer pump functions
the same way (opposite directions though I believe) as the 52's.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> A. Dennis Savarese
>>> 334-285-6263
>>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>>> Skype: Yakguy1
>>> www.yak-52.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/1/2011 7:56 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>>>> Will work for the 52 but the system does not exist on the 50. Next question
what is the volume of fuel this system dumps into the supercharger?
>>>> Doc
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 6:54 PM, Brian Lloyd<brian@lloyd.com<mailto:brian@lloyd.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bill Geipel<czech6@mesanetworks.net<mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel
>>>>> <czech6@mesanetworks.net<mailto:czech6@mesanetworks.net>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I can get away from pumping and use the panel space for
>>>>> something else I'll do it. Now what?
>>>>> I'll take one. How much?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems dead-nuts simple to me. Put in a Facet fuel pump of sufficient capacity
in place of the wobble pump. Replumb the oil-dilution solenoid valve to
to dump fuel into the primer port instead of the oil sump. (I cannot imagine
anyone using oil dilution these days.) I am surprised that it hasn't been done
in all CJ's.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>>>>> 3191 Western Dr.
>>>>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>>> brian@lloyd.com<mailto:brian@lloyd.com>
>>>>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>>>>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> In about 1500 hours of flying several different Yak 52's over a period of
> 12 years, I've had ONE primer leak...easily fixed.
>
I have only flown (front seat) three different ones. All leaked in either
the prime or fuel pump position. I suspect that if you really analyzed the
hand-plunger type pump you would find it not particularly robust.
Regardless, does anyone here really think they can keep an M14P running on
that primer pump used as an aux fuel pump? Really? At least I think you have
enough volume with the wobble pump in the CJ to keep it going but I am not
nearly as convinced that one could keep a Yak52 in the air on the "aux"
pump.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
My experience has been limited: Two Yak-52s, and both newer models. One
of them had a leaky primer. All that was needed to fix it was a new
(square) O-ring and I also used fuel-proof grease when I assembled it
and periodically thereafter. I never had any problems after that. In
non-emergency mode (engine driven fuel pump still working), I think it's
fine. There is a place that has about fifteen billion Viton O-rings of
every dimension in stock right across the street from me, so I had
access to fresh replacements.
I have tried to keep things as stock as possible, thinking that these
engineers have forgotten more than I will ever know. I did consider the
Facet pump, and I would note that these days, the factory uses that
exact pump as an optional auxiliary, so that says something. I imagine
it would suck have to pump that thing while setting up for an emergency
landing. Apparently, people have done it, though.
On Jul 2, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2@roadrunner.com>
wrote:
> In about 1500 hours of flying several different Yak 52's over a period
of 12 years, I've had ONE primer leak...easily fixed.
>
> I have only flown (front seat) three different ones. All leaked in
either the prime or fuel pump position. I suspect that if you really
analyzed the hand-plunger type pump you would find it not particularly
robust.
>
> Regardless, does anyone here really think they can keep an M14P
running on that primer pump used as an aux fuel pump? Really? At least I
think you have enough volume with the wobble pump in the CJ to keep it
going but I am not nearly as convinced that one could keep a Yak52 in
the air on the "aux" pump.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
>
Eric D. Wobschall
Buffalo Skyline
Buffalo-Lancaster Airport (KBQR):
4343 Walden Avenue
Lancaster, NY 14086
Office:
2120 Maple Road
Williamsville, NY 14221-1922
716.208.5460
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
Brian,
I that regard, I think that you are right.
On the other hand, I've never had a fuel pump fail either. Is
there a verifiable history of this on M-14P's?
Reb___________________________________________________________
On Jul 2, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2@roadrunner.com>
wrote:
> In about 1500 hours of flying several different Yak 52's over a period
of 12 years, I've had ONE primer leak...easily fixed.
>
> I have only flown (front seat) three different ones. All leaked in
either the prime or fuel pump position. I suspect that if you really
analyzed the hand-plunger type pump you would find it not particularly
robust.
>
> Regardless, does anyone here really think they can keep an M14P
running on that primer pump used as an aux fuel pump? Really? At least I
think you have enough volume with the wobble pump in the CJ to keep it
going but I am not nearly as convinced that one could keep a Yak52 in
the air on the "aux" pump.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
Roger,
I like the idea as it adds a margin of safety. When flying certificated
singles and twins, the boost pump comes on during takeoff and approach.
Got used to the idea and seems like a reasonable practice if Barry's
set-up can be used in the same way.
Warren Hill
N464TW
On Jul 2, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Roger Baker wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I that regard, I think that you are right.
>
> On the other hand, I've never had a fuel pump fail either. Is
there a verifiable history of this on M-14P's?
>
> Reb___________________________________________________________
> On Jul 2, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2@roadrunner.com>
wrote:
>> In about 1500 hours of flying several different Yak 52's over a
period of 12 years, I've had ONE primer leak...easily fixed.
>>
>> I have only flown (front seat) three different ones. All leaked in
either the prime or fuel pump position. I suspect that if you really
analyzed the hand-plunger type pump you would find it not particularly
robust.
>>
>> Regardless, does anyone here really think they can keep an M14P
running on that primer pump used as an aux fuel pump? Really? At least I
think you have enough volume with the wobble pump in the CJ to keep it
going but I am not nearly as convinced that one could keep a Yak52 in
the air on the "aux" pump.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>> 3191 Western Dr.
>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> brian@lloyd.com
>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I that regard, I think that you are right.
>
> On the other hand, I've never had a fuel pump fail either. Is there
> a verifiable history of this on M-14P's?
>
When it comes to systems a lot of stuff on aircraft is, uh, suboptimal. No,
there doesn't seem to be a history of failure. But I am personally averse to
any sort of single-point-of-failure where an alternative exists. I have
contemplated how I would switch hands to fly with my left and manage engine
power by pumping, or not, with my right hand. I don't like the idea.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 16
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| Subject: | WxWorx REWX9ID USB Weather Receiver For Sale... |
I have a 1-year old WxWorx REWX9ID USB XM Aircraft Weather and XM Audio receiver
for sale. It was just removed from my RV-8 and is in perfect working order.
Includes Antenna, Mount, Receiver Unit, and USB Interface.
It is compatible with the Grand Rapids EFISs and a number of others. Gives text
and graphical representations of weather including Rain, Wind, Temp, etc. Requires
separate monthly XM subscription which is not included in this offering.
Attached are some pictures of the actual unit for sale.
Works great and I wouldn't fly without a similar product. I'm replacing the functionality
with an ADS-B receiver.
Additional information on the unit can be found here:
https://www.wxworx.com/portable-receiver-overview
https://www.wxworx.com/interface-modules
Aircraft Spruce has the unit for $595:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/fl190True.php
I will take $400 firm for the unit as shown plus $10 for shipping. First come,
first served. Email me with questions.
I can accept PayPal http://www.paypal.com using "dralle@matronics.com" or I can accept Visa/MC directly. I will take a 2.5% discount for a check, but it will have to clear before I ship.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Rebuild - Post Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
Hello,
we mounted two Pierburg fuel pumps under the passenger floor in our 18 T after
experiencing severe loss of fuel pressure in warm weather during the take-off
run. And you just dont want to deal with that once again. I have to add that
we run the Yak on leadfree auto fuel from the beginning for 5 years now - as most
of you would do facing the price of avgas in Europe. With these pumps plus
a one-way valve feeding into the standard fuel line pressure stays above 0.5
bar in all conditions and this is only used for pressurizing the carb before
engine start and for take-off. I cant see how to manage an electric primer pump
replacement with good control so we keep the manual pump for our starting technique.
No big deal to keep that sealed as the critical parts can be accessed
from within the cockpit. It is true that the action of the plunger is not really
smooth with an o-ring acting on the steel plunger in non lubricating gasoline.
So we made up a set of seals from teflon and nylon/polyamide plus o-rings
as elastics - no more problems.
I can think of a setup feeding fuel into the primer line going into the induction
chamber in case of a carburettor failure. All youd need is a T fitting and
an electric/mechanic valve and some flow-limiting valve which you set up on
the ground for about half power to get you to an airfield in emergency.
I remember a story when the seal between the oil pump and the fuel pump failed
. The consequence was that the oil pump fed oil through the fuel pump to the
carb at 2-3 bar and the pilot was lucky to make it to the airfield - just - with
minimal power - and oil - left.
Cheers
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344735#344735
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pierburg_pumps_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primer_seals_398.jpg
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
The vane type aircraft engine driven fuel pump is indeed a very reliable unit.
But, like any other mechanical device, they have been known to fail on occasion.
It is good practice to overhaul or replace it at the normal engine TBO even if
the engine continues in service beyond that.
Of course about the worst time for a primary fuel pump failure would be right after
take-off.
Both the Yak and the CJ have the emergency fuel supply on the wrong side of the
cockpit. Both the location and the pump type in the Yak virtually guarantee
a bad outcome.
The CJ is better but a good outcome would be a function of luck and awesome dexterity.
For me it will be an elec. aux. pump as it was in my Harvard even though the hand
wobble pump was correctly located for the left hand. Always on for take-off
and landing. A primary pump failure on T.O. would not be noticed until you
kill the aux. pump at circuit altitude. Ho-Hum - turn it back on and land!
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Lloyd
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Electric Fuel Pump
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2@roadrunner.com> wrote:
In about 1500 hours of flying several different Yak 52's over a period of 12
years, I've had ONE primer leak...easily fixed.
I have only flown (front seat) three different ones. All leaked in either the
prime or fuel pump position. I suspect that if you really analyzed the hand-plunger
type pump you would find it not particularly robust.
Regardless, does anyone here really think they can keep an M14P running on that
primer pump used as an aux fuel pump? Really? At least I think you have enough
volume with the wobble pump in the CJ to keep it going but I am not nearly
as convinced that one could keep a Yak52 in the air on the "aux" pump.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pump |
When I put the M-14p in my CJ, I had a big concern about the wobble pump
and my arm keeping up with running the M-14. I replaced the wobble pump
with
a 24v Facet electric pump. I had a local machine shop make up the
fitting conversion I needed. One day right after takeoff, I got smoke in
the
cockpit! Big time smoke, acrid and deadly. I switch off master switch,
alternator and canopy open than made a hard turn 180 for the field. By
the
time I landed (:45 seconds) most of the smoke had cleared. What I found
was
the Facet pump had an internal short (I don=99t how) that burned th
ough its
casing.
All of us here on the list, have ideas (great ones) that are colored by
our life experiences. We tend to judge new ideas by those experiences.
Old
farts like old things (sometimes), and old farts-to-be will be more
accepting of new stuff of the =98new age=99. This is my per
spective, I am a cheap
SOB. If I can fix it with a =9CO=9D ring, I will. If there
ain=99t no more of
them there parts, I=99ll replace it with something new. I like Ba
rry=99s mod,
but I hate depending of electricity for my fuel. Once I kept the M-14
running with just the primer. Now its like an old friend, soul mate and
guardian angel to me. (Well I guess that=99s a little over the top)
. But when
the parts wear out, his system will most likely get put in.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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