Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Re: Re: Whirlwind Spinner (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 06:21 AM - A familiar bed (cjpilot710@aol.com)
4. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Brian Lloyd)
5. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Richard Goode)
6. 12:09 PM - New Email Address (Anne and Buddy Moman)
7. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 12:35 PM - Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Etienne Verhellen)
9. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Dr Andres Katz)
10. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (dabear)
11. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Brian Lloyd)
12. 09:18 PM - Re: What oil types can be mixed on an M-14p? (javiercarrascob)
13. 10:10 PM - Re: G Tolerance and Hydration (Pete Fowler)
14. 11:04 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
15. 11:08 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind Spinner |
I have installed two of the new Whirlwind spinners. Both pilots have
said the CHT has dropped slightly. Here's a couple of photos of one of
them.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 7/31/2011 11:16 PM, Warren Hill wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Warren Hill<k7wx@earthlink.net>
>
> Just got it on. Will let you know.
>
> Warren
>
>
> On Jul 31, 2011, at 8:27 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CD 2.0"<dbowie2007@hotmail.com>
>>
>> wow... came out very nice !
>>
>> how has it improved performance?
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> k7wx wrote:
>>> Gents,
>>>
>>> A while ago there was interest in that new composite WhirlWind spinner, but
no-one had seen one. Here it is, painted and with V530-WT composite blades on
my CJ. The spinner is big, but very light weight and the workmanship is flawless.
>>>
>>> Warren
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2011, at 6:07 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> $1500 USD plus shipping. Whirlwind is just starting to ship now. I don't
know what their backlog is.
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>> On 2/4/2011 6:39 PM, Didier BLOUZARD wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Any info about price and availability?
>>>>>
>>>>> Didier Blouzard
>>>>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 5 fvr. 2011 00:12, "A. Dennis Savarese" a crit :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug,
>>>>>> I'll be installing one next week on a 52 which does have the shutters. It
is designed to fit with the shutters, just like the Yak 18T spinner does when
installed on a 52 or 18T.
>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 1:40 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>>>>>>> Keith,
>>>>>>> Can this spinner be used with stock CJ type shutters? Or will we have
>>>>>>> to bite the bullet for a iris system? Noticed no shutters in the photo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM, N642K>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's a smaller picture
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329623#329623
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attachments:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/cj_at_night_744.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348227#348227
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This was
done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ. I
remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power up
during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll find the
stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft position. It
requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery. Took a
good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been told by
Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just make sure
you have lots of height."
There are a few guys out there who have "explored" the real range of the
CJ. They however don't prowl this list.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 3
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Well, I slept in a familiar bed with a familiar woman last night!
The flight from OSH to ILG where our condo and daughter's family lives, was
in almost perfectly clear skies. I took a bit of a short cut across the
waters of Lake Michigan because my nerves were bolstered by the new PFD
(personal floatation device) I was wearing. (Bought at a "last day" discount from
one of the venders.) The auto pilot worked great which reduced a lot of
fatigue that the heat more than made up for.
This was my 15th year at OSH. I've come the conclusion that for me its
about the people I have come to know there. The true heroes of aviation are
those volunteers who years after years run this thing. You can say what you
want to say about the high muck-a-ty- mucks whose names we all know, but real
driving force are the, Bills, Maties, Dave's, and Johns that keep the
things going. Most of them don't wear flight suits, but if you look under thier
skin, they are the bed rock of aviation. All of them are decent people on
top of that.
Lots of good stuff. All kinds of "apts" for I-pods, including a blue tooth
GPS antina. (And that is the limit of my techie know how.)
Saw Barrettes new electronic ignition system (still being tested).
Fell in LOVE with a 90% scale blue Spitfire from a kit guy in TX.
Saw a neat turbo prop engine (240hp).
Saw Dave Rider who along with a number of the DVT old CJ6 guys, are now
selling an ex RAF turbo prop trainer with a full boat of Gamin stuff.
A bunch of "greenie" electric airplanes were on show. (Sorry guys I just
don't believe the sky is falling)
Got a good insight from a S*******kie engineer on the new ABC proto type
helicopter (the fastest in the world). Pretty little machine BUT VERY
COMPLICATED)
All of our RPA flying went off with only little glites here and there. No
serious safety issues (not counting my near miss). One "Boner Award" will
be issued, however. One of our number took off for home without wearing his
flight suit. It somehow fell out of his airplane on takeoff, at a height
for ALL to see, requiring the runway to be closed for a few minutes while his
"FOD" was cleared. At least his name was not on it. HeHeHeHe, but I know
who he is and shall take advantage of it. Beers.
Well, I've got to look after a craped out radio, before I head to FL. BTW
don't bother buying a Adventure Pilot moving map and chart data base.
Worked for 5 hours than quit. Plus you can't see the display in a bright sunlit
cockpit.
A personal thanks to John Coxs, whom I and a number of other shared a very
nice house. To have a perfectly brewed cup of coffee SERVED to you each
morning - - - well I could marry a guy like that. - - - - - - - Well not
really!!
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:13 AM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This was
> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ. I
> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>
> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>
Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that one could keep the power up or that one
would WANT to keep the power up as oil pressure would go away in 5 seconds.
>
> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power up
> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll find
> the stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft position.
> It requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery. Took
> a good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been told
> by Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just make
> sure you have lots of height."
>
The CJ6As that I have [tried to] spin did not stay in a spin. G forces and
airspeed built up so the aircraft was actually in a spiral. Could be CG was
too far forward.
If you can get the airplane to spin I would expect it would be able to
flat-spin. It is the inverted flat spin that threw me.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
I=92m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and
of
course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
from
a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
Also,I=92m surprised that the CJ will recover in =BD a turn-if fully
developed
in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: 01 August 2011 15:46
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:13 AM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This
was
done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ.
I
remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that one could keep the power up or that
one
would WANT to keep the power up as oil pressure would go away in 5
seconds.
You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power
up
during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll
find
the stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft
position.
It requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery.
Took
a good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been
told
by Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just
make
sure you have lots of height."
The CJ6As that I have [tried to] spin did not stay in a spin. G forces
and
airspeed built up so the aircraft was actually in a spiral. Could be CG
was
too far forward.
If you can get the airplane to spin I would expect it would be able to
flat-spin. It is the inverted flat spin that threw me.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by <http://www.invictawiz.com/> MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 6
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| Subject: | New Email Address |
I have a new email address. Please remove my Earthlink address from
your address book.
buddy.moman22@gmail.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
In a message dated 8/1/2011 12:55:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
richard.goode@russianaeros.com writes:
I=99m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and of
course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
from a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
How much force may have been a "perceived" amount by me in my case. You
know - like in a sudden panic a man can left a car. It wasn't 90 lbs I'm
fairly certain.
Also,I=99m surprised that the CJ will recover in =C2=BD a turn-if ful
ly developed
in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
In my particular case, I had inadvertently entered the spin and the spin
was not fully developed that's for sure. That may have been the reason for
the light stick push and the quicker recovery.
But here is one more for you. In 1972 at the World Acrobatic Competition
in England, I watched what I think was a German single seat Zlin, do a flat
spin. I don't remember who or which country the pilot represented and this
was not part of the competition but an exhibition for Prince Charles. He
entered it with the engine OFF and the prop stopped. This was the same yea
r
that the late Neal William (England's champ) landed his Zlin after the wing
had folded. The flat spin was fully developed and if I remember right he
entered and recovered from it with the prop stopped.
That was quite a day. I watched Bob Hernidean fly the length of the runway
inverted in a Pitts, doing out side snaps from inverted to inverted-in
opposite directions. At the end of the runway, he pushed into an inverted
climb, at the top of it, he closed the throttle and pulled back for the lan
ding.
JUST before touch down about 30 feet above the runway, he did a positive
snap than touch down.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
* INVERTED FLAT SPINS in a CJ-6 !
WAOW !!! We want to come and watch !
* We have done A LOT OF (Upright) FLAT SPINS in the Yak-52.
* Stock Yak 52, 3 bladed-prop Yak 52, M-14PF, M-14PF AND 3 blades,
solo, with GIB, etc ...
* With Yaks on any Register ... :D
UK CAA (G-xxxx), ZU-xxx (South Africa), N (FAA), RAxxxx (FLA),
RF (Russia), LY (Lithuania), EC (Spain), ... etc.
http://www.civa-results.com/2008/WYAC08/EtienneVerhellen_135563.htm
http://www.civa-results.com/2009/WYAC09/02YAK021_EtienneVerhellen.htm
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/results/2006/john_mclean_trophy.htm
http://www.aerobatics.co.za/Gauteng%202010/04INT012.htm
http://www.aerobatics.co.za/Gauteng%202011/pilot_p006s06.htm
http://bac.msdp.eu/sites/default/files/file/RESULTS%20BONAC%202011.pdf
http://www.vliegeniseenkunst.nl/wrapper/resultaten/EtienneVerhellen_1402013.htm
Etc ...
* Goes really REALLY FLAT behind a M-14PF and 3 blades at full power [Exclamation]
Requires slightly different technique for most efficient recovery ... and Richard
is of course correct : it does require quite a lot of conviction moving the
stick forward - using both hands and arms fully stretched - and indeed recovery
will take a few turns if you went (intentionally of course) into a full developed
upright flat spin.
NOW : INVERTED FLAT SPINS !!!
====================
Well, we've done quite a few in Yaks but find them quite hard to maintain
because of centrifugal force.
I have written about this before. Read point 6. below :
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223644&highlight=#223644
Just picture this if you have never done inverted spinning before :
you will have full power to flatten the spin, full rudder, forward stick, out-spin
aileron (same side as rudder when inverted) and you will be upside-down !!!
Just try a few turns of plain vanilla Inverted SPINS (with power OFF) to warm up
: you will hopefully understand what I mean :
After a few turns of inverted spinning, the centrifugal force becomes quite significant
(especially with my big body in the back seat) ... now, just imagine
yourself "out-spinning", "unloading" and adding full power to accelerate and flatten
the spin !
It becomes quite hard to maintain control pressures on the stick and rudder to
stay in a fully developed INVERTED flat spins.
I will do one one with you if you are really committed but usually after demonstrating
the upright flat spins, people are "happy" enough. [Laughing]
Altough you can end up at the beginning of a flat spin by screwing up a stall turn
(hammerhead) - and indeed it is actually the best way to start an INTENTIONAL
upright flat spin - to continue into a full flat spin requires quite precise
control movements.
On the other hand, I really do not see HOW a pilot would UNintentionally end up
into a fully developed INVERTED flat spin ! It takes dedication to get there
!
As far as Aerobatic flying is concerned, the Yak-52 is superior to a CJ-6.
I know, I have flown both. Just look at the wings. Straight (but not symetrical)
for the Yak. Dihedral for the CJ. Not ideal when inverted.
Yaks roll slightly faster.
No disrespect for the Nanchang. It's just the way it is. The CJ-6 is a GREAT LOOKING
aircraft. 8)
"Aerobatically" the 50 is superior to the 52, the 55 to the 50 and any Sukhois
to all the Yaks, etc ...
They are things I can do in a Yak I cannot do in a CJ.
And things I am (very) HAPPY doing in a Yak (Lomcevaks, upright FLAT SPINs, Tailslides,
inverted turning, outside rollers, etc) that I would not try in a CJ.
My point is : I do not really understand how a CJ pilot would UNintentionallly
end up in an INVERTED flat spin.
NOW, if YOU can fly consistent INVERTED flat spins in a CJ-6, we are very VERY
impressed. And we would love to come and watch.
But nevertheless, to answer Paul's initial question :
"Guys, what is the recovery procedure for an inverted flat spin in a CJ-6 ?"
The answer is :
1. Leave the power on if you are positive about what you are doing.
Otherwise power OFF.
2. Change rudder.
3. stick forward (remember you have unloaded when entering the spin to
accelerate it).
4. stick to the other side (remember you have applied out-spin aileron to
flatten the spin) / and addes full power !
5. stick Back (maintain stick in the back corner and full opposite rudder
until recovery).
6. 2. and 3, 4, 5 at the same time !
Good luck ! :)
A plain vanilla (power off) inverted spin is just :
1. change rudder AND
2. bring the stick back at the same time.
Exit is very easy and faster than for an upright spin.
Remember that if you do just one turn of inverted spin you will exit in the opposite
direction ... unless you push out of the vertical ! :D Etc ETC ...
Cheers,
Etienne.
Enough talking ! Let's go FLYING !
PS : I hope Richard (Goode)
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=82956&highlight=european+certification
and Mark ("Bitter" !)
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=82933&highlight=european+certification
will agree with me on THIS ONE :
Get proper aerobatic training from a Flight Instructor (experienced on type !).
8) Tower, this is Ghost Rider requesting a flyby ! 8)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tchikedou/1570671653/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22367737@N02/2156802294/
http://www.vliegeniseenkunst.nl/node/224
http://www.pilotweb.aero/content/pilotlist/view_pilot.aspx?id-046
http://bac.msdp.eu/permanent-training
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.aerobaticsaircraft.com/105-yakrobatics-namur-belgium/#comments
http://www.yak52.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18:janie&catid=29:the-cms&Itemid=38
Of course, I have attached a few pics [Arrow]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348286#348286
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/flight_international_yak_52_issues_original_363.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sdc10253_126.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/su_29__stupino_june_2005_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_6270_116.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sanicole07_008_120.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
the yak 55 does it differently =0Athe stick needs to go up to right shoulde
r and power on 90 pounds of force to =0Aget it in there=0Aask timofeyenko a
bout it he will tell you=0Athats why inverted spin training is a must for b
ig radials=0Aat the top of the hammerhead its easy to get into one if carel
ess cross control =0Aslow high angle of attack etc.=0Acheers=0Aak=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilo
t710@aol.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, August 1, 2011 2:15
:16 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6=0A=0A=0AIn a mes
sage dated 8/1/2011 12:55:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =0Arichard.goode@rus
sianaeros.com writes:=0AI=99m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 poun
ds forward pressure.=0A>In a flat spin you are descending vertically at qui
te a high speed,and of course =0A>the airflow will push the elevator up,and
so the stick back.=0A>The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to ge
t the stick forward from a =0A>well-developed flat spin,and will often need
both hands.=0AHow much force may have been a "perceived" amount by me in m
y case.=C2- You know - =0Alike in a sudden panic a man can left a car.=C2
- It wasn't 90 lbs I'm fairly =0Acertain.=0AAlso,I=99m surprised th
at the CJ will recover in =C2=BD a turn-if fully developed in =0Athe 52 it
CAN be 3,and even 4!!=C2-=0AIn my particular case, I had inadvertently en
tered the spin and the spin was not =0Afully developed that's for sure.=C2
- That may have been the reason for the light =0Astick push and the quick
er recovery.=C2- =0A=0A=C2-=0ABut here is one more for you.=C2- In 19
72 at the World Acrobatic Competition in =0AEngland, I watched what I think
was a German single seat Zlin, do a flat spin.=C2- =0AI don't remember w
ho or which country the pilot represented and this was not =0Apart of the c
ompetition but an exhibition for Prince Charles.=C2- He entered it =0Awit
h the engine OFF and the prop stopped.=C2- This was the same year that th
e late =0ANeal William (England's champ) landed his Zlin after the wing had
folded.=C2-=C2-The =0Aflat spin was fully developed and if I remember
right he entered and recovered =0Afrom it with the prop stopped.=0A=C2-
=0AThat was quite a day.=C2- I watched Bob Hernidean fly the length of th
e runway =0Ainverted in a Pitts, doing out side snaps from inverted to inve
rted-in opposite =0Adirections.=C2- At the end of the runway, he pushed i
nto an inverted climb, at the =0Atop of it, he closed the throttle and pull
ed back for the landing.=C2- JUST before =0Atouch down about 30 feet abov
e the runway, he did a positive snap than touch =0Adown.=C2-=C2-=0A=C2
-=0AJim "Pappy" Goolsby=0A=C2-=0ARichard Goode=0A>Rhodds Farm=0A>Lyonsh
==================== =0A
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
Cross control slow high AoA. Isn=99t that the hammer head
execution? J
The CG in my CJ6A is at the forward limit with just me in the plane. I
will NOT do an inverted spin, it comes out into a spiral. It will do an
upright spin but it is ugly (much like the pilot). It requires the
controls be full aft and rudder all the way over. Any release (just a
bit) and she comes right out. I=99ve only done up to 3 turn
spins.
Jim talked about upright flat spin. I=99ve not tried since
putting on the M14P, but it wouldn=99t go flat for me with the
Housai. I=99m going to go WAY high and try it.
Bear =C3=A7=== Not an expert, not even on the yak-list.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr Andres Katz
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
the yak 55 does it differently
the stick needs to go up to right shoulder and power on 90 pounds of
force to get it in there
ask timofeyenko about it he will tell you
thats why inverted spin training is a must for big radials
at the top of the hammerhead its easy to get into one if careless cross
control slow high angle of attack etc.
cheers
ak
_____
From: "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, August 1, 2011 2:15:16 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
In a message dated 8/1/2011 12:55:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
richard.goode@russianaeros.com writes:
I=99m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and
of course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
from a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
How much force may have been a "perceived" amount by me in my case. You
know - like in a sudden panic a man can left a car. It wasn't 90 lbs
I'm fairly certain.
Also,I=99m surprised that the CJ will recover in =C2=BD a turn-if
fully developed in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
In my particular case, I had inadvertently entered the spin and the spin
was not fully developed that's for sure. That may have been the reason
for the light stick push and the quicker recovery.
But here is one more for you. In 1972 at the World Acrobatic
Competition in England, I watched what I think was a German single seat
Zlin, do a flat spin. I don't remember who or which country the pilot
represented and this was not part of the competition but an exhibition
for Prince Charles. He entered it with the engine OFF and the prop
stopped. This was the same year that the late Neal William (England's
champ) landed his Zlin after the wing had folded. The flat spin was
fully developed and if I remember right he entered and recovered from it
with the prop stopped.
That was quite a day. I watched Bob Hernidean fly the length of the
runway inverted in a Pitts, doing out side snaps from inverted to
inverted-in opposite directions. At the end of the runway, he pushed
into an inverted climb, at the top of it, he closed the throttle and
pulled back for the landing. JUST before touch down about 30 feet above
the runway, he did a positive snap than touch down.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 12:15 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> In my particular case, I had inadvertently entered the spin and the spin
> was not fully developed that's for sure. That may have been the reason for
> the light stick push and the quicker recovery.
>
If it was not fully developed then it may not have been a flat spin.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: What oil types can be mixed on an M-14p? |
Thanks everyone for the clarification, I really apreciated.
Safe landings!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348336#348336
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: G Tolerance and Hydration |
To continue this a little, I compared my SFI 3-layer nomex racing suit to my Mil-spec
CWU-27/P flight suit:
Note the quilting and there are 3-layers of nomex in the racing suit (on left and
flight suit on right):
Now here's something interesting. My nomex underwear (which is 1-layer) which adds
2-3 seconds of protection is actually thicker than the flight suit! My guess
is that these suits may protect against flash-burns during ejection (and that
would be about it).
(nomex underwear on left, flight suit on right):
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348339#348339
Message 14
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Yak-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Yak-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Yak-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Yak-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
yak-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "yak-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Yak-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Yak-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Yak-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Yak-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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