Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Jochen Peiper)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: G Tolerance and Hydration (Roger Kemp M.D.)
3. 08:31 AM - Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Etienne Verhellen)
4. 09:03 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 08/01/11 (Skip Slyfield)
5. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 08/01/11 (Byron Fox)
6. 09:30 AM - Spinning the Yak-52 (Richard Goode)
7. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Jochen Peiper)
8. 01:22 PM - Re: Spinning the Yak-52 (Etienne Verhellen)
9. 01:25 PM - Damaged I-3 (Hotmail)
10. 01:38 PM - Re: Damaged I-3 (Fran Myers)
11. 01:45 PM - Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Etienne Verhellen)
12. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Dr Andres Katz)
13. 02:33 PM - Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Etienne Verhellen)
14. 02:55 PM - Re: Whirlwind Spinner (aerostar6)
15. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Whirlwind Spinner (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Whirlwind Spinner (Warren Hill)
17. 03:23 PM - Re: fuel flow (Joe Howse)
18. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
19. 05:48 PM - Re: Spinning the Yak-52 (Brian Lloyd)
20. 06:04 PM - I am looking for an M14P core engine (Ex-Fighter Pilot)
21. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Jim Griffin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
What do you mean by "2 and 3,4,5" at the same time?=0A=0ACouldn't you rephr
ase this in a more structured way, to the point, and without all these unne
cesary details please?=0A-=0AJochen=0AFrom: Etienne Verhellen <janie@yak5
2.fr>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 1, 2011 9:33 PM
=0ASubject: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6=0A=0A--> Yak-List message
posted by: "Etienne Verhellen" <janie@yak52.fr>=0A=0A* INVERTED FLAT SPINS
in a CJ-6 !=0A- WAOW !!!- We want to come and watch !=0A=0A* We have do
ne A LOT OF (Upright) FLAT SPINS in the Yak-52.=0A=0A* Stock Yak 52, 3 blad
ed-prop Yak 52, M-14PF, M-14PF AND 3 blades,=0A- solo, with GIB, etc ...
=0A=0A* With Yaks on any Register ...- :D =0A- UK CAA (G-xxxx), ZU-xxx
(South Africa), N (FAA), RAxxxx (FLA),=0A- RF (Russia), LY (Lithuania), E
C (Spain), ... etc.=0Ahttp://www.civa-results.com/2008/WYAC08/EtienneVerhel
len_135563.htm=0Ahttp://www.civa-results.com/2009/WYAC09/02YAK021_EtienneVe
rhellen.htm=0Ahttp://www.aerobatics.org.uk/results/2006/john_mclean_trophy.
htm=0Ahttp://www.aerobatics.co.za/Gauteng%202010/04INT012.htm=0Ahttp://www.
aerobatics.co.za/Gauteng%202011/pilot_p006s06.htm=0Ahttp://bac.msdp.eu/site
s/default/files/file/RESULTS%20BONAC%202011.pdf=0Ahttp://www.vliegeniseenku
nst.nl/wrapper/resultaten/EtienneVerhellen_1402013.htm=0AEtc ...=0A=0A* Goe
s really REALLY FLAT behind a M-14PF and 3 blades at full power- [Exclama
tion] =0ARequires slightly different technique for most efficient recovery
... and Richard is of course correct : it does require quite a lot of convi
ction moving the stick forward - using both hands and arms fully stretched
- and indeed recovery will take a few turns if you went (intentionally of c
ourse) into a full developed upright flat spin.=0A=0ANOW : INVERTED FLAT SP
INS !!!=0A=====================
=0AWell, we've done quite a few in Yaks but find them quite hard to maintai
n=0Abecause of centrifugal force.=0A=0AI have written about this before. Re
ad point 6. below :=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223644&
highlight=#223644=0A=0AJust picture this if you have never done inverted
spinning before :=0Ayou will have full power to flatten the spin, full rudd
er, forward stick, out-spin aileron (same side as rudder when inverted) and
you will be upside-down !!!=0A=0AJust try a few turns of plain vanilla Inv
erted SPINS (with power OFF) to warm up : you will hopefully understand wha
t I mean :=0AAfter a few turns of inverted spinning, the centrifugal force
becomes quite significant (especially with my big body in the back seat) ..
. now, just imagine yourself "out-spinning", "unloading" and adding full po
wer to accelerate and flatten the spin ! =0A=0AIt becomes quite hard to mai
ntain control pressures on the stick and rudder to stay in a fully develope
d INVERTED flat spins.=0A=0AI will do one one with you if you are really co
mmitted but usually after demonstrating the upright flat spins, people are
"happy" enough.- [Laughing] =0A=0AAltough you can end up at the beginning
of a flat spin by screwing up a stall turn (hammerhead) - and indeed it is
actually the best way to start an INTENTIONAL upright flat spin - to conti
nue into a full flat spin requires quite precise control movements.=0A=0AOn
the other hand, I really do not see HOW a pilot would UNintentionally end
up into a fully developed INVERTED flat spin ! It takes dedication to get t
here !=0A=0AAs far as Aerobatic flying is concerned, the Yak-52 is superior
to a CJ-6.=0A=0AI know, I have flown both. Just look at the wings. Straigh
t (but not symetrical) for the Yak. Dihedral for the CJ. Not ideal when inv
erted.=0AYaks roll slightly faster.=0A=0ANo disrespect for the Nanchang. It
's just the way it is. The CJ-6 is a GREAT LOOKING aircraft.- 8)=0A=0A"Ae
robatically" the 50 is superior to the 52, the 55 to the 50 and any Sukhois
to all the Yaks, etc ...=0A=0AThey are things I can do in a Yak I cannot d
o in a CJ.=0A=0AAnd things I am (very) HAPPY doing in a Yak (Lomcevaks, upr
ight FLAT SPINs, Tailslides, inverted turning, outside rollers, etc) that I
would not try in a CJ. =0A=0AMy point is : I do not really understand how
a CJ pilot would UNintentionallly end up in an INVERTED flat spin.=0A=0ANOW
, if YOU can fly consistent INVERTED flat spins in a CJ-6, we are very VERY
impressed. And we would love to come and watch. =0A=0ABut nevertheless, to
answer Paul's initial question :=0A"Guys, what is the recovery procedure f
or an inverted flat spin in a CJ-6 ?"=0A=0AThe answer is :=0A=0A1. Leave th
e power on if you are positive about what you are doing.=0A- - Otherwis
e power OFF. =0A=0A2. Change rudder.=0A=0A3. stick forward (remember you ha
ve unloaded when entering the spin to=0A- - accelerate it).=0A=0A4. sti
ck to the other side (remember you have applied out-spin aileron to=0A-
- flatten the spin) / and addes full power !=0A=0A5. stick Back (maintain
stick in the back corner and full opposite rudder=0A- - until recovery
).=0A=0A6. 2. and 3, 4, 5 at the same time !=0A=0AGood luck !- :) =0A=0AA
plain vanilla (power off)- inverted spin is just :=0A=0A1. change rudder
AND=0A2. bring the stick back at the same time.=0A=0AExit is very easy and
faster than for an upright spin.=0A=0ARemember that if you do just one tur
n of inverted spin you will exit in the opposite direction ... unless you p
ush out of the vertical !- :D- Etc ETC ...=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0AEtienne.
=0A=0AEnough talking ! Let's go FLYING !=0A=0APS : I hope Richard (Goode)
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=82956&highlight=european
+certification=0Aand Mark ("Bitter" !)=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewto
pic.php?t=82933&highlight=european+certification=0Awill agree with me o
n THIS ONE :=0A=0AGet proper aerobatic training from a Flight Instructor (e
xperienced on type !).=0A=0A8) Tower, this is Ghost Rider requesting a flyb
y !- 8) =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/photos/tchikedou/1570671653/sizes/o/
=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/photos/22367737@N02/2156802294/=0Ahttp://www.vlieg
eniseenkunst.nl/node/224=0Ahttp://www.pilotweb.aero/content/pilotlist/view_
pilot.aspx?id-046=0Ahttp://bac.msdp.eu/permanent-training=0Ahttp://www.
planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711=0Ahttp://www.aerobaticsaircr
aft.com/105-yakrobatics-namur-belgium/#comments=0Ahttp://www.yak52.fr/index
.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18:janie&catid=29:the-cms&I
temid=38=0A=0AOf course, I have attached a few pics- [Arrow]=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtop
ic.php?p=348286#348286=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.mat
ronics.com//files/flight_international_yak_52_issues_original_363.pdf=0Ahtt
p://forums.matronics.com//files/sdc10253_126.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.
com//files/su_29__stupino_june_2005_121.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//
files/img_6270_116.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/sanicole07_008_
=========================0A
=================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: G Tolerance and Hydration |
Pete,
That is all they were intended for. .3-.4 sec. Of sitting with the rocket motor
lighting around you before you go up the rail. Sorry, I have forgotten the exact
length of time they are intended to offer protection but it is a very short
time of exposure.
Doc
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 2, 2011, at 12:08 AM, "Pete Fowler" <pfdesign1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> To continue this a little, I compared my SFI 3-layer nomex racing suit to my
Mil-spec CWU-27/P flight suit:
>
> Note the quilting and there are 3-layers of nomex in the racing suit (on left
and flight suit on right):
>
>
> Now here's something interesting. My nomex underwear (which is 1-layer) which
adds 2-3 seconds of protection is actually thicker than the flight suit! My guess
is that these suits may protect against flash-burns during ejection (and
that would be about it).
>
> (nomex underwear on left, flight suit on right):
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348339#348339
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
Quote :
"What do you mean by "2 and 3,4,5" at the same time?
Couldn't you rephrase this in a more structured way, to the point, and without
all these unnecesary details please ? "
Jochen.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Jochen,
To the point :
If you are really serious about training in a structured way and practice upright
FLAT SPIN and (!!) INVERTED flat spin [Exclamation]
(if it is actually possible to consistently fly them in a CJ-6 - I doubt it),
please get in touch with an experienced Flight Instructor on type and he will teach
you the maneuvers without all the unnecessary details.
Otherwise, just forget about "2 and 3, 4, 5" at the same time !
There is no need for you to know how to recover from a fully developped
INVERTED (!!!) flat spin if you do not intend to practice them on a regular basis.
It is NOT "required experience" to safely enjoy flying your CJ.
Kind Regards,
Etienne.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEp-WMjJdvw
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/129003L.html
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/129002L.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEp-WMjJdvw
___________________________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348377#348377
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 08/01/11 |
Anybody know where I can get a QS-2 (brake)valve for my CJ? You can contact me
off list.
Thanks
Skip Slyfield
Norske.fly@gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2011, at 2:00, Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-08-01&Archive=Yak
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-08-01&Archive=Yak
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 08/01/11: 15
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:18 AM - Re: Re: Whirlwind Spinner (A. Dennis Savarese)
> 2. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
> 3. 06:21 AM - A familiar bed (cjpilot710@aol.com)
> 4. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Brian Lloyd)
> 5. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Richard Goode)
> 6. 12:09 PM - New Email Address (Anne and Buddy Moman)
> 7. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
> 8. 12:35 PM - Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Etienne Verhellen)
> 9. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Dr Andres Katz)
> 10. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (dabear)
> 11. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Brian Lloyd)
> 12. 09:18 PM - Re: What oil types can be mixed on an M-14p? (javiercarrascob)
> 13. 10:10 PM - Re: G Tolerance and Hydration (Pete Fowler)
> 14. 11:04 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
> 15. 11:08 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:18:23 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Whirlwind Spinner
>
> I have installed two of the new Whirlwind spinners. Both pilots have
> said the CHT has dropped slightly. Here's a couple of photos of one of
> them.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (cell)
> Skype: Yakguy1
> www.yak-52.com
>
>
> On 7/31/2011 11:16 PM, Warren Hill wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Warren Hill<k7wx@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Just got it on. Will let you know.
>>
>> Warren
>>
>>
>> On Jul 31, 2011, at 8:27 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CD 2.0"<dbowie2007@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> wow... came out very nice !
>>>
>>> how has it improved performance?
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>> k7wx wrote:
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> A while ago there was interest in that new composite WhirlWind spinner, but
> no-one had seen one. Here it is, painted and with V530-WT composite blades on
> my CJ. The spinner is big, but very light weight and the workmanship is flawless.
>>>>
>>>> Warren
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 2011, at 6:07 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> $1500 USD plus shipping. Whirlwind is just starting to ship now. I don't
> know what their backlog is.
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/4/2011 6:39 PM, Didier BLOUZARD wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any info about price and availability?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didier Blouzard
>>>>>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 5 fvr. 2011 00:12, "A. Dennis Savarese" a crit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug,
>>>>>>> I'll be installing one next week on a 52 which does have the shutters.
It
> is designed to fit with the shutters, just like the Yak 18T spinner does when
> installed on a 52 or 18T.
>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 1:40 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>>>>>>>> Keith,
>>>>>>>> Can this spinner be used with stock CJ type shutters? Or will we have
>>>>>>>> to bite the bullet for a iris system? Noticed no shutters in the photo.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM, N642K>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's a smaller picture
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329623#329623
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Attachments:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/cj_at_night_744.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>>>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348227#348227
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:16:47 AM PST US
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>
> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This was
> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ. I
> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>
> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>
> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power up
> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll find the
>
> stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft position. It
> requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery. Took a
> good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been told by
> Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just make sure
> you have lots of height."
>
> There are a few guys out there who have "explored" the real range of the
> CJ. They however don't prowl this list.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:21:11 AM PST US
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> Subject: Yak-List: A familiar bed
>
> Well, I slept in a familiar bed with a familiar woman last night!
>
> The flight from OSH to ILG where our condo and daughter's family lives, was
> in almost perfectly clear skies. I took a bit of a short cut across the
> waters of Lake Michigan because my nerves were bolstered by the new PFD
> (personal floatation device) I was wearing. (Bought at a "last day" discount
from
>
> one of the venders.) The auto pilot worked great which reduced a lot of
> fatigue that the heat more than made up for.
>
> This was my 15th year at OSH. I've come the conclusion that for me its
> about the people I have come to know there. The true heroes of aviation are
> those volunteers who years after years run this thing. You can say what you
> want to say about the high muck-a-ty- mucks whose names we all know, but real
> driving force are the, Bills, Maties, Dave's, and Johns that keep the
> things going. Most of them don't wear flight suits, but if you look under thier
>
> skin, they are the bed rock of aviation. All of them are decent people on
> top of that.
>
> Lots of good stuff. All kinds of "apts" for I-pods, including a blue tooth
> GPS antina. (And that is the limit of my techie know how.)
> Saw Barrettes new electronic ignition system (still being tested).
> Fell in LOVE with a 90% scale blue Spitfire from a kit guy in TX.
> Saw a neat turbo prop engine (240hp).
> Saw Dave Rider who along with a number of the DVT old CJ6 guys, are now
> selling an ex RAF turbo prop trainer with a full boat of Gamin stuff.
> A bunch of "greenie" electric airplanes were on show. (Sorry guys I just
> don't believe the sky is falling)
> Got a good insight from a S*******kie engineer on the new ABC proto type
> helicopter (the fastest in the world). Pretty little machine BUT VERY
> COMPLICATED)
>
> All of our RPA flying went off with only little glites here and there. No
> serious safety issues (not counting my near miss). One "Boner Award" will
> be issued, however. One of our number took off for home without wearing his
> flight suit. It somehow fell out of his airplane on takeoff, at a height
> for ALL to see, requiring the runway to be closed for a few minutes while his
> "FOD" was cleared. At least his name was not on it. HeHeHeHe, but I know
> who he is and shall take advantage of it. Beers.
>
> Well, I've got to look after a craped out radio, before I head to FL. BTW
> don't bother buying a Adventure Pilot moving map and chart data base.
> Worked for 5 hours than quit. Plus you can't see the display in a bright sunlit
>
> cockpit.
>
> A personal thanks to John Coxs, whom I and a number of other shared a very
> nice house. To have a perfectly brewed cup of coffee SERVED to you each
> morning - - - well I could marry a guy like that. - - - - - - - Well not
> really!!
>
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:50:23 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:13 AM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This was
>> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ. I
>> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>>
>> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>>
>
> Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that one could keep the power up or that one
> would WANT to keep the power up as oil pressure would go away in 5 seconds.
>
>
>>
>> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power up
>> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
>> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll find
>> the stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft position.
>> It requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery. Took
>> a good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been told
>> by Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just make
>> sure you have lots of height."
>>
>
> The CJ6As that I have [tried to] spin did not stay in a spin. G forces and
> airspeed built up so the aircraft was actually in a spiral. Could be CG was
> too far forward.
>
> If you can get the airplane to spin I would expect it would be able to
> flat-spin. It is the inverted flat spin that threw me.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:55:25 AM PST US
> From: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>
> I=92m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
>
> In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and
> of
> course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
>
> The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
> from
> a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
>
> Also,I=92m surprised that the CJ will recover in =BD a turn-if fully
> developed
> in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: 01 August 2011 15:46
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:13 AM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This
> was
> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ.
> I
> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>
>
> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>
>
> Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that one could keep the power up or that
> one
> would WANT to keep the power up as oil pressure would go away in 5
> seconds.
>
>
> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power
> up
> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll
> find
> the stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft
> position.
> It requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery.
> Took
> a good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been
> told
> by Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just
> make
> sure you have lots of height."
>
>
> The CJ6As that I have [tried to] spin did not stay in a spin. G forces
> and
> airspeed built up so the aircraft was actually in a spiral. Could be CG
> was
> too far forward.
>
>
> If you can get the airplane to spin I would expect it would be able to
> flat-spin. It is the inverted flat spin that threw me.
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by <http://www.invictawiz.com/> MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:09:05 PM PST US
> From: Anne and Buddy Moman <amoman@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Yak-List: New Email Address
>
> I have a new email address. Please remove my Earthlink address from
> your address book.
>
> buddy.moman22@gmail.com
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:17:42 PM PST US
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>
> In a message dated 8/1/2011 12:55:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> richard.goode@russianaeros.com writes:
>
> I=99m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
> In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and of
>
> course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
> The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
> from a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
> How much force may have been a "perceived" amount by me in my case. You
> know - like in a sudden panic a man can left a car. It wasn't 90 lbs I'm
>
> fairly certain.
>
> Also,I=99m surprised that the CJ will recover in =C2=BD a turn-if ful
> ly developed
> in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
> In my particular case, I had inadvertently entered the spin and the spin
> was not fully developed that's for sure. That may have been the reason for
>
> the light stick push and the quicker recovery.
>
> But here is one more for you. In 1972 at the World Acrobatic Competition
>
> in England, I watched what I think was a German single seat Zlin, do a flat
>
> spin. I don't remember who or which country the pilot represented and this
>
> was not part of the competition but an exhibition for Prince Charles. He
>
> entered it with the engine OFF and the prop stopped. This was the same yea
> r
> that the late Neal William (England's champ) landed his Zlin after the wing
>
> had folded. The flat spin was fully developed and if I remember right he
>
> entered and recovered from it with the prop stopped.
>
> That was quite a day. I watched Bob Hernidean fly the length of the runway
>
> inverted in a Pitts,
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 08/01/11 |
What? Doug doesn't ?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Skip Slyfield <norske.fly@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anybody know where I can get a QS-2 (brake)valve for my CJ? You can contact
me off list.
> Thanks
> Skip Slyfield
> Norske.fly@gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 2, 2011, at 2:00, Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>> *
>>
>> =================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> =================================================
>>
>> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-08-01&Archive=Yak
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-08-01&Archive=Yak
>>
>>
>> ===============================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ===============================================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Yak-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Mon 08/01/11: 15
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 04:18 AM - Re: Re: Whirlwind Spinner (A. Dennis Savarese)
>> 2. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
>> 3. 06:21 AM - A familiar bed (cjpilot710@aol.com)
>> 4. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Brian Lloyd)
>> 5. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Richard Goode)
>> 6. 12:09 PM - New Email Address (Anne and Buddy Moman)
>> 7. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
>> 8. 12:35 PM - Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Etienne Verhellen)
>> 9. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Dr Andres Katz)
>> 10. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (dabear)
>> 11. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 (Brian Lloyd)
>> 12. 09:18 PM - Re: What oil types can be mixed on an M-14p? (javiercarrascob)
>> 13. 10:10 PM - Re: G Tolerance and Hydration (Pete Fowler)
>> 14. 11:04 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
>> 15. 11:08 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 04:18:23 AM PST US
>> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Whirlwind Spinner
>>
>> I have installed two of the new Whirlwind spinners. Both pilots have
>> said the CHT has dropped slightly. Here's a couple of photos of one of
>> them.
>> Dennis
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>> Skype: Yakguy1
>> www.yak-52.com
>>
>>
>> On 7/31/2011 11:16 PM, Warren Hill wrote:
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Warren Hill<k7wx@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Just got it on. Will let you know.
>>>
>>> Warren
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2011, at 8:27 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CD 2.0"<dbowie2007@hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> wow... came out very nice !
>>>>
>>>> how has it improved performance?
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> k7wx wrote:
>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>
>>>>> A while ago there was interest in that new composite WhirlWind spinner, but
>> no-one had seen one. Here it is, painted and with V530-WT composite blades on
>> my CJ. The spinner is big, but very light weight and the workmanship is flawless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Warren
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 4, 2011, at 6:07 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $1500 USD plus shipping. Whirlwind is just starting to ship now. I don't
>> know what their backlog is.
>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 6:39 PM, Didier BLOUZARD wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any info about price and availability?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didier Blouzard
>>>>>>> +33 6 2424 3672
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 5 fvr. 2011 00:12, "A. Dennis Savarese" a crit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug,
>>>>>>>> I'll be installing one next week on a 52 which does have the shutters.
It
>> is designed to fit with the shutters, just like the Yak 18T spinner does when
>> installed on a 52 or 18T.
>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 1:40 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Keith,
>>>>>>>>> Can this spinner be used with stock CJ type shutters? Or will we have
>>>>>>>>> to bite the bullet for a iris system? Noticed no shutters in the photo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM, N642K>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's a smaller picture
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329623#329623
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Attachments:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/cj_at_night_744.jpg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>>>>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>>>> =========
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348227#348227
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 05:16:47 AM PST US
>> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>>
>> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This was
>> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ. I
>> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>>
>> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>>
>> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power up
>> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
>> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll find
the
>>
>> stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft position. It
>> requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery. Took a
>> good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been told by
>> Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just make sure
>> you have lots of height."
>>
>> There are a few guys out there who have "explored" the real range of the
>> CJ. They however don't prowl this list.
>>
>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 06:21:11 AM PST US
>> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: A familiar bed
>>
>> Well, I slept in a familiar bed with a familiar woman last night!
>>
>> The flight from OSH to ILG where our condo and daughter's family lives, was
>> in almost perfectly clear skies. I took a bit of a short cut across the
>> waters of Lake Michigan because my nerves were bolstered by the new PFD
>> (personal floatation device) I was wearing. (Bought at a "last day" discount
from
>>
>> one of the venders.) The auto pilot worked great which reduced a lot of
>> fatigue that the heat more than made up for.
>>
>> This was my 15th year at OSH. I've come the conclusion that for me its
>> about the people I have come to know there. The true heroes of aviation are
>> those volunteers who years after years run this thing. You can say what you
>> want to say about the high muck-a-ty- mucks whose names we all know, but real
>> driving force are the, Bills, Maties, Dave's, and Johns that keep the
>> things going. Most of them don't wear flight suits, but if you look under thier
>>
>> skin, they are the bed rock of aviation. All of them are decent people on
>> top of that.
>>
>> Lots of good stuff. All kinds of "apts" for I-pods, including a blue tooth
>> GPS antina. (And that is the limit of my techie know how.)
>> Saw Barrettes new electronic ignition system (still being tested).
>> Fell in LOVE with a 90% scale blue Spitfire from a kit guy in TX.
>> Saw a neat turbo prop engine (240hp).
>> Saw Dave Rider who along with a number of the DVT old CJ6 guys, are now
>> selling an ex RAF turbo prop trainer with a full boat of Gamin stuff.
>> A bunch of "greenie" electric airplanes were on show. (Sorry guys I just
>> don't believe the sky is falling)
>> Got a good insight from a S*******kie engineer on the new ABC proto type
>> helicopter (the fastest in the world). Pretty little machine BUT VERY
>> COMPLICATED)
>>
>> All of our RPA flying went off with only little glites here and there. No
>> serious safety issues (not counting my near miss). One "Boner Award" will
>> be issued, however. One of our number took off for home without wearing his
>> flight suit. It somehow fell out of his airplane on takeoff, at a height
>> for ALL to see, requiring the runway to be closed for a few minutes while his
>> "FOD" was cleared. At least his name was not on it. HeHeHeHe, but I know
>> who he is and shall take advantage of it. Beers.
>>
>> Well, I've got to look after a craped out radio, before I head to FL. BTW
>> don't bother buying a Adventure Pilot moving map and chart data base.
>> Worked for 5 hours than quit. Plus you can't see the display in a bright sunlit
>>
>> cockpit.
>>
>> A personal thanks to John Coxs, whom I and a number of other shared a very
>> nice house. To have a perfectly brewed cup of coffee SERVED to you each
>> morning - - - well I could marry a guy like that. - - - - - - - Well not
>> really!!
>>
>>
>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 07:50:23 AM PST US
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>> From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:13 AM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This was
>>> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ. I
>>> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>>>
>>> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>>>
>>
>> Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that one could keep the power up or that one
>> would WANT to keep the power up as oil pressure would go away in 5 seconds.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power up
>>> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
>>> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll find
>>> the stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft position.
>>> It requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery. Took
>>> a good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been told
>>> by Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just make
>>> sure you have lots of height."
>>>
>>
>> The CJ6As that I have [tried to] spin did not stay in a spin. G forces and
>> airspeed built up so the aircraft was actually in a spiral. Could be CG was
>> too far forward.
>>
>> If you can get the airplane to spin I would expect it would be able to
>> flat-spin. It is the inverted flat spin that threw me.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>> 3191 Western Dr.
>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> brian@lloyd.com
>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 09:55:25 AM PST US
>> From: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>>
>> I=92m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
>>
>> In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and
>> of
>> course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
>>
>> The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
>> from
>> a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
>>
>> Also,I=92m surprised that the CJ will recover in =BD a turn-if fully
>> developed
>> in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
>>
>>
>> Richard Goode
>>
>> Rhodds Farm
>>
>> Lyonshall
>>
>> Hereford
>>
>> HR5 3LW
>>
>>
>> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>>
>> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>>
>> www.russianaeros.com
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
>> Sent: 01 August 2011 15:46
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:13 AM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> If I remember right the CJ-6 has been in an inverted flat spin. This
>> was
>> done at MTW a number of year ago by Sirgay with Keith Harbor in his CJ.
>> I
>> remember Keith's airplane coming back covered in oil.
>>
>>
>> At the time Keith's plane was a standard 6A.
>>
>>
>> Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that one could keep the power up or that
>> one
>> would WANT to keep the power up as oil pressure would go away in 5
>> seconds.
>>
>>
>> You can flat spin a CJ quite easily positive by merely leaving the power
>> up
>> during a spin entry. Recovery is a little disconcerting at first but
>> straight forward. On releasing the back pressure on the stick, you'll
>> find
>> the stick will not move toward neutral but will stay in the aft
>> position.
>> It requires a push of about 3 lb. toward the neutral for the recovery.
>> Took
>> a good half turn or more to recover. Been there done that. I've been
>> told
>> by Tony Smith, that a nose on the horizon flat spin can be done "just
>> make
>> sure you have lots of height."
>>
>>
>> The CJ6As that I have [tried to] spin did not stay in a spin. G forces
>> and
>> airspeed built up so the aircraft was actually in a spiral. Could be CG
>> was
>> too far forward.
>>
>>
>> If you can get the airplane to spin I would expect it would be able to
>> flat-spin. It is the inverted flat spin that threw me.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>> 3191 Western Dr.
>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> brian@lloyd.com
>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by <http://www.invictawiz.com/> MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:09:05 PM PST US
>> From: Anne and Buddy Moman <amoman@earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Yak-List: New Email Address
>>
>> I have a new email address. Please remove my Earthlink address from
>> your address book.
>>
>> buddy.moman22@gmail.com
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:17:42 PM PST US
>> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
>>
>> In a message dated 8/1/2011 12:55:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> richard.goode@russianaeros.com writes:
>>
>> I=99m surprised that the CJ only needs 3 pounds forward pressure.
>> In a flat spin you are descending vertically at quite a high speed,and of
>>
>> course the airflow will push the elevator up,and so the stick back.
>> The Yak 52 CAN need up to 90 pounds [yes,90!!] to get the stick forward
>> from a well-developed flat spin,and will often need both hands.
>> How much force may have been a "perceived" amount by me in my case. You
>> know - like in a sudden panic a man can left a car. It wasn't 90 lbs I'm
>>
>> fairly certain.
>>
>> Also,I=99m surprised that the CJ will recover in =C2=BD a turn-if ful
>> ly developed
>> in the 52 it CAN be 3,and even 4!!
>> In my particular case, I had inadvertently entered the spin and the spin
>> was not fully developed that's for sure. That may have been the reason for
>>
>> the light stick push and the quicker recovery.
>>
>> But here is one more for you. In 1972 at the World Acrobatic Competition
>>
>> in England, I watched what I think was a German single seat Zlin, do a flat
>>
>> spin. I don't remember who or which country the pilot represented and this
>>
>> was not part of the competition but an exhibition for Prince Charles. He
>>
>> entered it with the engine OFF and the prop stopped. This was the same yea
>> r
>> that the late Neal William (England's champ) landed his Zlin after the wing
>>
>> had folded. The flat spin was fully developed and if I remember right he
>>
>> entered and recovered from it with the prop stopped.
>>
>> That was quite a day. I watched Bob Hernidean fly the length of the runway
>>
>> inverted in a Pitts,
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Spinning the Yak-52 |
Spinning the Yak-52
I have said it a couple of times before in these columns that spinning a 52
is not for the inexperienced, and anyone contemplating - whether simple or
advanced really MUST get proper instruction from someone who is familiar
with these aircraft, which do have characteristics which CAN bite the
unwary. For those of you planning to spin their 52, I strongly urge you to
read a paper I prepared on this. Do click onto
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-52%20spinning.htm
In passing, since this thread started with inverted spinning, I would point
out that an inverted spin on a 52 is much easier to recover, principally
because the control surfaces are much less blanked.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
Mr Verhellen,=0A-=0AThe subject is serious enough for a clear and structu
red response. =0A-=0AI suppose that you know this subject very well, but
instead of clarifying, you only added more confusion to the subject. =0A-
=0AOf course flat spinning should not be exercised without proper instructi
on.=0A-=0ABut that has already been made clear by knowledgeable people on
this list.And only a fool would try this out without proper instruction.
=0A-=0AFurthermore, your attitude is very pedantic: why should there be n
o need for someone to know how it works, even if that person does not inten
d to practice regularly?=0A-=0AOr is it to be treated like some kind of o
bscure magic, only to be known by the happy few?=0A-=0ARegards,=0A-=0AJ
ochen,=0AVorarlsberg, Austria=0A-=0A-=0A=0AFrom: Etienne Verhellen <jan
ie@yak52.fr>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 5
:28 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6=0A=0A--> Yak-List me
ssage posted by: "Etienne Verhellen" <janie@yak52.fr>=0A=0AQuote :=0A=0A"Wh
at do you mean by "2 and 3,4,5" at the same time? =0ACouldn't you rephrase
this in a more structured way, to the point, and without all these unnecesa
ry details please ? "=0A=0AJochen.=0A--------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------=0A=0ADear Jochen, =0A=0ATo the point
: =0A=0AIf you are really serious about training in a structured way and pr
actice upright FLAT SPIN and (!!) INVERTED flat spin- [Exclamation] =0A(i
f it is actually possible to consistently fly them in a CJ-6 - I doubt it),
=0Aplease get in touch with an experienced Flight Instructor on type and h
e will teach you the maneuvers without all the unnecessary details. =0A=0AO
therwise, just forget about "2 and 3, 4, 5" at the same time ! =0A=0AThere
is no need for you to know how to recover from a fully developped =0AINVERT
ED (!!!) flat spin if you do not intend to practice them on a regular basis
. =0AIt is NOT "required experience" to safely enjoy flying your CJ. =0A=0A
Kind Regards, =0A=0AEtienne. =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEp-WMj
Jdvw=0A=0Ahttp://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/129003L.html =0Ahttp:/
/www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/129002L.html =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=nEp-WMjJdvw =0A______________________________________________
_____________=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums
-========================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spinning the Yak-52 |
Richard, I see you have updated your text :
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-52%20spinning.htm
Amongst other thing you have added :
" Finally, there is the potential problem by virtue of being a tandem cockpit aeroplane
that there is misunderstanding between the two cockpits. This is common to all
such aircraft,
but it emphasises the need for a thorough briefing on all procedures before any
aerobatic flight."
Common sense really but I could not agree more.
I make it very very clear to people I train on their Yak 52 that when
I shout "I have control", they must not touch any controls anymore ...
Get really angry if they are slow !
This could have been an issue in the latest Yak-52 accident in the UK
on Thursday 28 April 2011.
We will have to wait for the final AAIB report.
I have also written about spins in the Yak-52 on this list :
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223644&highlight=#223644
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348286&highlight=#348286
We can teach Spins in the Yak 52.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325681&highlight=#325681
But tonight I AM VERY VERY SAD : lost another friend in a Yak-52.
Accident in Holland this afternoon. RA-1428K in Lelystad (EHLE).
R.I.P. G.
I'll miss you so much buddy.
http://www.myalbums.be/displayimage.php?pid=85884&fullsize=1
http://www.myalbums.be/displayimage.php?pid=85885&fullsize=1
http://www.myalbums.be/displayimage.php?pid=85886&fullsize=1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tchikedou/1570671653/sizes/o/
--------
http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348421#348421
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spa_100_ans__9_aot_2009lievenformation_137.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spa_100_ans__9_aot_2009lievenformation_672.jpg
Message 9
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A friend had an Interavia I-3 shipped to WI and the container was dropped and rolled.
There is sheet metal damage and he was wondering if there is anyone somewhat
local who would be interested in repairing it and or if anyone would be
interested in buying it as is.
Thanks,
Bill Cowden
Menomonie, WI
Sent from my iPad
Message 10
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I think Courtesy does or has a division that does that kind of work. Also I
think Basler does some work too although their website talks about turbine
conversion DC-3's. When I was down there they were restoring a F4F and I
think they had done a P47 as well.
Also there is a guy in Princeton, MN who does some warbird work - Duane
Kruse. http://www.kruseaviation.com/ I know him and he's worked on YAK's and
CJ's before plus he used to work for a pretty big warbird operation before
they went bust. Probably closer to you than Rockford or Oshkosh. And he's
pretty reasonable with rates too.
Fran
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hotmail
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Damaged I-3
A friend had an Interavia I-3 shipped to WI and the container was dropped
and rolled. There is sheet metal damage and he was wondering if there is
anyone somewhat local who would be interested in repairing it and or if
anyone would be interested in buying it as is.
Thanks,
Bill Cowden
Menomonie, WI
Sent from my iPad
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
Jochen,
I am really not in the mood to discuss this any longer.
Have just lost a friend in a Yak-52 accident this afternoon.
I don't give a damn if you think my attitude is pedantic.
I am willing to help if you are genuinely interested :
1. You come fly with me in Belgium OR
2. You invite me to fly with you in Austria
and I will share with you what I know about flying a Yak-52.
Flying is like a lot of things in life :
you can read and talk about it as much as you want, the only
way to learn is to practice the REAL THING.
I am so sad. I miss my buddy so much.
Regards,
Etienne.
janie@yak52.fr
+32 473 272 186.
(please leave a message if no reply)
--------
http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348428#348428
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
sorry to hear about your buddy-etienne=0Ahang in there=0Ai like your comm
ents and your added information regarding your enthusiasm for =0Athe yak=0A
some people just dont get it=0A=0Aandres=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A___________
_____________________=0AFrom: Etienne Verhellen <janie@yak52.fr>=0ATo: yak-
list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, August 2, 2011 3:40:46 PM=0ASubject: Yak-Li
e Verhellen" <janie@yak52.fr>=0A=0AJochen,=0A=0AI am really not in the mood
to discuss this any longer.=0A=0AHave just lost a friend in a Yak-52 accid
ent this afternoon.=0A=0AI don't give a damn if you think my attitude is pe
dantic.=0A=0AI am willing to help if you are genuinely interested :=0A=0A1.
You come fly with me in Belgium OR=0A2. You invite me to fly with you in A
ustria=0A=0Aand I will share with you what I know about flying a Yak-52.=0A
=0AFlying is like a lot of things in life :=0Ayou can read and talk about i
t as much as you want, the only=0Away to learn is to practice the REAL THIN
G.=0A=0AI am so sad. I miss my buddy so much.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0AEtienne.
=0A=0Ajanie@yak52.fr=0A=0A+32 473 272 186.=0A=0A(please leave a message if
no reply)=0A=0A--------=0Ahttp://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks=0Ahttp://www.pl
anecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711=0Ahttp://www.airshowactionphot
ography.com/san07/page1.html=0Ahttp://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/
Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348428#3484
===================
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
Thank Andres. Really appreciated.
My buddy loved his Yak so much.
He was much more technically competent than me. Not difficult really.
He took his machine completed apart for a COMPLETE overhaul.
I was joking he would never get it back together and it would take
years. With the help of a great Lithuanian mechanic, he was flying
4 months later ...
My friend's girlfriend is devastated.
I cannot stop crying as I write this.
Good night Andres, Etienne.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348435#348435
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind Spinner |
Looks great. How difficult is it to fit the backplate on the Whirlwind prop?
Does it have more room than the standard russki V530?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348436#348436
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind Spinner |
Are you speaking of the new Whirlwind BLADES? If yes, then no, it
doesn't have any more room. About the same amount of room that the
older Yak 18T spinner has when installed on the V530 hub. I worked
many hours with Jim at Whirlwind to improve the design for ease of
installation, particularly for the new Whirlwind blades. Whirlwind also
has a version of the spinner that fits the old Russian paddle prop
blades. Presently the spinner bullet is not interchangeable between the
old Russian paddle prop blades and the new W530 blades. But they are
working on a way to make it interchangeable. Most likely will be in the
side plate design. In other words, one spinner bullet fits all with
different side plates depending on which type blades you have.
Regardless, it is well engineered product.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 8/2/2011 4:51 PM, aerostar6 wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "aerostar6"<mwlevy@btinternet.com>
>
> Looks great. How difficult is it to fit the backplate on the Whirlwind prop?
>
> Does it have more room than the standard russki V530?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348436#348436
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind Spinner |
Putting on the backplate for the WhirlWind spinner is pretty much the same. Not
a whole lot of fun.
On Aug 2, 2011, at 2:51 PM, aerostar6 wrote:
>
> Looks great. How difficult is it to fit the backplate on the Whirlwind prop?
>
> Does it have more room than the standard russki V530?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348436#348436
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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\
\
When I first got my CJ I was uncomfortable with the single point vent
system, so I modified the fuel caps by installing
check valve vents from salvaged old type Cessna fuel caps.
Did several for other CJ's.
Also installed Cessna 337 wing tip vents with seperate plumbing from
each tank.
There was some improvement with the uneven flow problem, but still
required paying attention to keeping wings level,
specially in a long climb with high power settings ( torque effect ) .
Most effective mod was electric aileron trim.
We are now flying an 18T which has the two standpipe vents and still
experiencing the uneven flow problem
if not paying careful attention to the wing level situation.So
planning to install a wing leveling system.
Joe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07/29/11
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
SSBhbSBzb3JyeSB0byBoZWFyIHlvdSBsb3N0IGEgZnJpZW5kIHdoaWxlIGhlIHdhcyBmbHlpbmcu
ICBKdXN0IHNldmVyYWwgDQptb250aHMgYWdvLCBJIHRvbyBsb3N0IGEgZ29vZCBmcmllbmQgaW4g
aGlzIFlhayA1MlREIHdoaWxlIGhlIHdhcyBkb2luZyBhbiANCmFpcnNob3cgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2Uu
ICBPbmUgY2FuIGJlIHZlcnkgcGhpbG9zb3BoaWNhbCBhdCB0aW1lcyBsaWtlIHRoaXMuICBBbGwg
DQpraW5kcyBvZiBjbGljaMOpIHF1b3RlcyBhcmUgcHV0IGZvcnRoIHRoYXQgdHJ5IHRvIGNvbWZv
cnQgdGhlIGJlcmVhdmVkLiAgQW5kIA0KdGhpcyBpcyB3aGVyZSB0aGUgcmVhbCBodXJ0IGxpZXMu
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aXJpdCB0aGF0IHdhcyB0aGF0IHBlcnNvbi4gDQpXZSB3aG8gcGx5IHRoZSBza2llcyBvZiB0aGlz
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aGlzIHBsYW5ldCBoYXZlIHRvdWNoZWQgdGhlIHdpbmRzIG5vdCB1bmxpa2UgYmVlcywgYmlyZHMs
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aGVhZCBvZiB1cyBhIGxpdHRsZSB0byBzb29uLg0K
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Spinning the Yak-52 |
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Richard Goode <
richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> In passing, since this thread started with inverted spinning, I would
> point out that an inverted spin on a 52 is much easier to recover,
> principally because the control surfaces are much less blanked.
>
Huh. I was going to bring that up. You beat me to it.
I had the pleasure of learning how to aggravate an upgright spin of a Pitts
S2 until normal recovery is impossible. The rudder has absolutely no effect
because it is blanked in turbulent air off the fuselage and horizontal
stabilizer. It definitely gets your attention. :-) And like the -52,
inverted spins are no problem because the rudder is always in "clean" air.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 20
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| Subject: | I am looking for an M14P core engine |
Hey Folks....
I need an M14P core engine for spare parts. If you know of anyone who has a damaged
engine (not prop strike damage) that would like to unload it....please
let me know. Cheers.
I really need an M14P nose gear assembly so I can mount a new prop on a CJ with
an M14B engine.....anyone?
Cheers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348457#348457
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: inverted flat spin CJ6 |
Well said, Pappy
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: inverted flat spin CJ6
I am sorry to hear you lost a friend while he was flying. Just
several months ago, I too lost a good friend in his Yak 52TD while he
was doing an airshow performance. One can be very philosophical at
times like this. All kinds of clich=C3=A9 quotes are put forth that try
to comfort the bereaved. And this is where the real hurt lies. Those
that were closest to the departed, miss that spirit that was that
person.
We who ply the skies of this beautiful planet, have a special
privilege. We can the see earth below without the boundaries of choking
governments, without the prejudices of races, ethic pasts, nor the close
up dirt of humanity. To us a common automobile junk yard is just a
kaleidoscope of colors.
We aviators get to feel the very essence of the breath of this planet
right under our wings, all-be-it though the aluminum skin of something
we control. We, us aviators, are special among humans. We like no
other humans on this planet have touched the winds not unlike bees,
birds, or the gods we may have perceived.
I do not feel sorry for you friend. He is not in a mindless drool,
unaware of where he is, what his past was or that he is even alive.
That my friend is the cruelest fate to a human sprit. Your friend died
doing what he wanted to be doing. If he died trying to teach someone
else the fine points of flying =93 GOOD FOR HIM. =9CTo
error is human.=9D
Rejoice that you knew him. Tell his friends to rejoice they knew him.
Rejoice that he was doing what he loved to be doing. Yes flying is
dangerous, but so the was the saber-tooth tiger to our ancestors. In
the end only the living feel sorrow.
I lift a glass to =9CWild Bill=9D Walker, and to your
friend. They just went a head of us a little to soon.
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