Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Re: Re: CJ flaps on final (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: CJ flaps on final (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 01:48 PM - Flaps/Flight instruction (Philip Nicholson)
4. 06:30 PM - Re: Flaps/Flight instruction (Adrian Coop Cooper)
5. 07:45 PM - Re: Flaps/Flight instruction (Brian Lloyd)
6. 09:29 PM - Anyone know the weight for the Housai? (Thomas Geoghegan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CJ flaps on final |
I apologize if I came across that way Carl. It wasn't intentional.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 9/4/2011 10:43 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CD 2.0"<dbowie2007@hotmail.com>
>
> Dennis, thanks for being my grammar instructor today ... I'll be more clear
next time. Let me include the entire statement with some additional commentary
in parenthesis, so it's easier to understand what I meant:
>
> .... so although its against normal written procedure [on most aircraft] reducing
the amount of flaps [on most aircraft] or not adding flaps at all [on Cj's,
Yaks..], just according with the amount of crosswind is the preferred way to
go for many.
>
> Carl
>
>
> dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote:
>> Carl,
>> Regarding your comment ".... reducing the amount of flaps" on both the
>> CJ and the Yak 52 is not an option. Flaps on both of these airplanes
>> have two positions; full up or full down. There is no in between.
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>> Skype: Yakguy1
>> www.yak-52.com
>>
>>
>> On 9/4/2011 8:30 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Philip,
>>>
>>> it depends on the amount of crosswind Using flaps during a serious crosswind
will increase ground effect and drift after touch down so although its against
normal written procedure reducing the amount of flaps or not adding flaps
at all, just according with the amount of crosswind is the preferred way to go
for many. Flaps on a CJ6 will minimally decrease stall speeds.
>>>
>>> Try to do some crosswind practice with an instructor on the type, as it could
be a bit tricky at first.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> pnicholson wrote:
>>>> (apologies in advance for the newbie question)
>>>> Having recently picked up my CJ6A from Victoria, BC, I flew back with
>>>> an experienced non-nanchang pilot.
>>>> He suggested that you should (and did) land not extending the flaps in
>>>> times of crosswinds etc. Needless to say, final speeds were high and
>>>> the nosewheel banged away.
>>>> Even with my modest C-172 time, flaps seem like a damned good idea. I
>>>> am getting conflicting information...The RPA checklists are quite
>>>> clear in the requirement for flaps; could someone please educate me
>>>> (on or off list) on when to flap or not to flap :-)
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Philip Nicholson
>>>> C-FEPN
>>>> (Ontario)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351434#351434
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351440#351440
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CJ flaps on final |
This is what I hate about printed or text messages. Words don't always
and can't emulate the intent nor manner of the writer. I know both you gu
ys.
There is not factious cell in either one of you.
Anyway my "take" on crosswind and flaps, with split flaps on the CJ, there
not a whole lot of difference in stall speed. But of course there is lots
of drag. To me, this means when the power comes off, the RATE of
deceleration is a lot faster than no flap. That's good thing. The reason
one
appears to "float" with no flap is not so much due to ground effect, a slo
w
rate of deceleration with the lack of drag. That exposes one to the drift
of
a cross wind longer. Ground effect does play a part, but its the same. G
E
comes into effect at 1/2 the wing span of any aircraft. The only flaps
that increase its effect substantially are the high lift types are Flower
and
double and triple slotted types.
The other aspect is the deck angle and approach path of your approach.
With zero flap every thing is flatter with the same speeds. Its as simple
as
that. There has been a lot of good advice posted here already. Practice
is the common thread. A high % of ac accident happen in the low speed par
t
of the envelop of any aircraft design. As a chief checkpilot for a CAP
wing, my "big thing" was checking the pilots skill in all realms in the lo
w
speed envelop. I made sure the other checkpilots did as well. We had a
very good safety record. A lot of times and time and again on this list,
we've pointed out the importance of training and practice. Just look at t
he
Wrights brothers. How many times did they "practice" before they got it
right?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 9/5/2011 7:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
I apologize if I came across that way Carl. It wasn't intentional.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 9/4/2011 10:43 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "CD 2.0"<dbowie2007@hotmail.com>
>
> Dennis, thanks for being my grammar instructor today ... I'll be more
clear next time. Let me include the entire statement with some additional
commentary in parenthesis, so it's easier to understand what I meant:
>
> .... so although it=99s against normal written procedure [on most
aircraft]
reducing the amount of flaps [on most aircraft] or not adding fl
aps at
all [on Cj's, Yaks..], just according with the amount of crosswind
is the
preferred way to go for many.
>
> Carl
>
>
> dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote:
>> Carl,
>> Regarding your comment ".... reducing the amount of flaps" on both the
>> CJ and the Yak 52 is not an option. Flaps on both of these airplanes
>> have two positions; full up or full down. There is no in between.
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (cell)
>> Skype: Yakguy1
>> www.yak-52.com
>>
>>
>> On 9/4/2011 8:30 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Philip,
>>>
>>> it depends on the amount of crosswind Using flaps during a
serious
crosswind will increase ground effect and drift after touch down
so
although it=99s against normal written procedure reducing t
he amount of flaps or
not adding flaps at all, just according with the amount of crosswind
is
the preferred way to go for many. Flaps on a CJ6 will minimally decrease
stall speeds.
>>>
>>> Try to do some crosswind practice with an instructor on the type, as
it could be a bit tricky at first.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> pnicholson wrote:
>>>> (apologies in advance for the newbie question)
>>>> Having recently picked up my CJ6A from Victoria, BC, I flew back with
>>>> an experienced non-nanchang pilot.
>>>> He suggested that you should (and did) land not extending the flaps i
n
>>>> times of crosswinds etc. Needless to say, final speeds were high and
>>>> the nosewheel banged away.
>>>> Even with my modest C-172 time, flaps seem like a damned good idea. I
>>>> am getting conflicting information...The RPA checklists are quite
>>>> clear in the requirement for flaps; could someone please educate me
>>>> (on or off list) on when to flap or not to flap :-)
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Philip Nicholson
>>>> C-FEPN
>>>> (Ontario)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351434#351434
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351440#351440
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Flaps/Flight instruction |
Thank you very much for the discussion on flaps; very informative. It
reminds me of how much I don't know.
One comment stood out above all others, "get instruction from an
EXPERIENCED CJ pilot so you don't get yourself killed" or words to
that effect. While I got enough checkout to get home safely, I could
certainly do with some more instruction. If anyone is willing to come
to Ontario to instruct a new CJ owner, please contact me off list with
your terms and conditions etc :-)
Thank you for the collective support.
Phil
C-FEPN
Kincardine, Ontario.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps/Flight instruction |
Phil.
Congratulations on getting your bird back to Ontario.
Shame we couldn't have connected here in BC.
Pappy is right about the flaps.
I am sure you can find someone in the North East to give you some instruction.
Welcome to the fraternity.
Coop. :D
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351504#351504
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps/Flight instruction |
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Thank you very much for the discussion on flaps; very informative. It
> reminds me of how much I don't know.
> One comment stood out above all others, "get instruction from an
> EXPERIENCED CJ pilot so you don't get yourself killed" or words to
> that effect.
Here is the thing: the CJ6A is an extremely easy airplane to fly. If you
know how to fly an airplane, learn the basics of the systems, and have a
modicum of common sense, you are going to be able to fly the CJ6A safely. So
don't be afraid of it. If you aren't going to get yourself killed flying a
C-182, you aren't going to get yourself killed in a CJ6A either. (Of course,
if you decide to go out and act stupidly, doing things that are clearly
beyond your skill set in either airplane, then all bets are off!)
I suspect you are safe in your CJ6A even if you had questions about the
flaps. Sure you can ask questions here and you can even find experienced
instructors in the CJ6A who will be glad to help you. (I am available and I
will probably be flying up to Calgary in a couple of weeks if you want to
come that far west. :-) But even with that, you could safely have found the
answer to the question for yourself. Never underestimate the power of
devising your own tests to determine what the airplane is going to do in a
given situation. You could have gone up to altitude and done stalls with the
gear down and flaps up (Vs1), and with both the gear and flaps down (Vs0) to
determine stall speed clean and dirty. You could then have multiplied those
speeds by 1.3 to determine your normal approach speed. At that point I would
experiment with power off descents at your reference approach speeds (1.3Vs1
and 1.3Vs0) to see what the descent rate is. A little time spent with a
calculator will give you the descent angle. Convert speeds to common units,
e.g. ft per minute, and the take the arc cosine of vertical speed divided by
TAS, i.e. descent angle = acos(vertical_speed/TAS). Now you can figure out
things like total landing distance to clear a 50' obstacle if you like.
So, yes, I think it is a great idea to find a good instructor, especially
for learning type-specific idiosyncrasies. But don't let that keep you from
learning about your airplane by yourself. In fact, approaching these kinds
of problems by yourself, with the airplane, in a systematic manner, will let
you learn things about your airplane that you probably won't get from an
instructor. It will also build skill AND confidence in your own flying
abilities.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Anyone know the weight for the Housai? |
I am looking for an approximate shipping weight for a Housai 285 engine.
Thanks.
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