Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:44 PM - Recommendation M-14 engines (Yak Pilot)
2. 01:02 PM - Re: S-L-O_W Air leak (Yak Pilot)
3. 01:07 PM - Re: Recommendation M-14 engines (doug sapp)
4. 01:17 PM - Re: Recommendation M-14 engines (Yak Pilot)
5. 02:07 PM - new M14P magneto coils (Daniel Ryfa)
6. 09:18 PM - Re: Recommendation M-14 engines (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Recommendation M-14 engines |
This should probably be on the M-14 engine list, (which I will get around t
o doing), but for now just a recommendation for every M-14 engine owner on
this list.- (Of course this might-equally apply to-Housai engines as
well!-)=0A-=0AAs anyone knows who has timed an M-14, it is not exactly
an easy process and it is very difficult to get dead nuts accurate.- Typi
cally we finish, hope for the best and check mag drop as a confidence facto
r.- =0A-=0AThere are several ways to "do this better" when attempting t
he process, but one of the easier ways to time an engine is with the Aircra
ft Tool and Supply Company TIMERITE device.- This is actually the same wa
y the Russians attempt it, but with a much more accurate instrument.- =0A
-=0AApparent;ly the TIMERITE timing tool does not have gauge arms and sca
les developed for the M-14 engine, which actually is kind of odd since ther
e are more of these engines in this country flying than there are some of t
he older radial engine designs that they have developed scales for. =0A-
=0AOne of the ways to influence this is simply to call these folks up, tell
them that you have an M-14, and would like to see them develop their produ
ct so it can be used on YOUR engine.- Heck, it's a toll free call:- 1-8
00-248-0638- =0A-=0AI am not saying there are not better methods than t
he TIMERITE (A Laser scale comes to mind), but being able to purchase and u
se this instrument on M-14 engines would be of benefit to all of us.- So
consider giving these folks a call sometime and tell them you'd love to see
them develop their product to be used on our M-14 engines.-- Can't hur
t.- =0A-=0AMark
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: S-L-O_W Air leak |
Just want to second what Dennis has said here, since I recently had exactly
the same problem.=C2-=C2-=C2- =0A=C2-=0AOn the YAK-50 ... not the
YAK-52, but the 50, there is only one=C2- thing common that will drain bo
th main and emergency bottles together, and that is the check valves.=C2-
They are sneaky.=C2- You can have two of them go bad and never even know
it.=C2-=C2- When you then get the THIRD one go bad, it will do exactly
what you just said.=C2- It is highly likely that this is your problem.
=0A=C2-=0ADennis gave you one method, I will give you another.=C2- Open
your snot valve.=C2- Close it.=C2- Wait a few hours and come back and
open it again.=C2- If any air comes out at all, you have bad check valves
.=C2- There are four of them.=C2- Two inputs and two outputs.=C2-=C2
- Compressor in, external air in, main out and emergency out.=C2- Four.
=C2- There is an air filter in the middle.=C2- This filter has like....
well, it is like "steel wool" inside of it.=C2- When that crap comes apa
rt, (and it does) it exits out to both the emergency bottle output check va
lve and the main air bottle check valve and makes them LEAK.=C2- =0A=C2
-=0AIf you have both "out" check valves fail, and your pressure relief va
lve is in good shape, you will never even realize it has happened.=C2-
=0A=C2-=0AIf you have both "out" check valves that ARE failed, you can ge
t air leaking out of:=0A=C2-=0A1. The pressure relief valve,=C2- =0A=C2
-=0A2. Through a THIRD check valve to the engine compressor, and before y
ou say how unlikely THAT is, that is EXACTLY what happened to me! =0A=C2-
=0A3.=C2- Through (another)=C2- third check valve and then out the exte
rnal fill port.=C2- =0A=C2-=0ASo you need to look for air coming out th
e snot valve (my way or Dennis's way), out the external fill port, or out t
he pressure relief valve.=C2- Any one of three will tell you that both ma
in and emergency output check valve are leaking.=C2- Both of them.=C2-
=0A=C2-=0ANow for the good news.=C2- Cliff Coy can rebuild these for yo
u and=C2-darn right this is a plug for his good service!=C2- He deserve
s it and so does George=C2-.=0A=C2-=0AGood Luck, =0A=C2-=0AMark=0A=C2
-=0Ap.s. =0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Clifford Coy=0A=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- Border Air Ltd.=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 629
Airport Rd.=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Swanton, VT 05488=0A=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- 802-868-2822 TEL=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 802
-868-4465 FAX=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Skype: Cliff.Coy=0A=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AGeorge Coy=0ACAS Ltd.=0A714 Airp
ort Rd.=0ASwanton VT 05488=0A802-868-5633 off=0A802-363-5782 cell=0A802-868
-4465 Fax=0Ageorge.coy@gmail.com=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0AF
rom: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: yak-list@matron
ics.com=0ASent: Monday, October 3, 2011 5:10 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: S-
savarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0A=0ACheck the external air fill port with soap
y water.=C2- If you have bubbles, you can start tracing where and why it
is leaking. Secondly, with the snot bottle closed, see if you can put a sma
ll cup of water over the drain tube.=C2- Bubbles there would indicate the
pop off valve is not seating AND you have a leaking check valve further up
the line.=C2- At least this is two starting points.=0ADennis=0A=0AA. Den
nis Savarese=0A334-285-6263=0A334-546-8182 (cell)=0ASkype: Yakguy1=0Awww.ya
k-52.com=0A=0A=0AOn 10/3/2011 1:55 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:=0A> =0A> Jj,
=0A> =0A> Sorry to say it bud butyou and a soap suds squirt bottle
are going to become friends. How long has it been since you replaced the b
raided airline to your brakes? If it is leaking down with your air shut off
valve=C2- closed I would start by looking at the fitting connecting to t
he air shut off valve and that valve itself. Next the lines coming into it
from the bottles. Worst yet a pin hole in one of the bottles. Then it is a
straight shot back to the check valves on the fire wall. That includes the
pop off valve.=0A> =0A> Someone was talking about the ultrasonic leak detec
tors they bought on Ebay. That may become your playtime friend also if you
get tired of soapy water that is.=0A> =0A> Doc=0A> =0A> *From:*owner-yak-li
st-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Be
half Of *Jj=0A> *Sent:* Monday, October 03, 2011 1:19 PM=0A> *To:* yak-list
@matronics.com=0A> *Subject:* Yak-List: S-L-O_W Air leak=0A> =0A> Need expe
rt opinion-=C2- on my YAK 50 it has suddenly developed=0A> =0A> A very sl
ow air leak that depletes both the main and=0A> =0A> Emergency air bottles
over several days.=C2- I have never had=0A> =0A> An air leak before.=C2
- When I fly it it immediately recharges=0A> =0A> Full.=C2- In 4 days i
t is down to 3 'potatoes' and I shut it down at 5.=0A> =0A> Any quick opini
ons of where the leak might be?=0A> =0A> Tailwinds=0A> =0A> Jj=0A> =C2-
=C2-
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendation M-14 engines |
Called them:
"So I hear your now offering a gauge arm and scale for using the Timerite on
a M14P??"
A what?
Which engine?
A Russian engine?
Radial huh?
Well tech is out-- call back tomorrow...............
Not very encouraging.
Doug
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This should probably be on the M-14 engine list, (which I will get around
> to doing), but for now just a recommendation for every M-14 engine owner on
> this list. (Of course this might equally apply to Housai engines as well! )
>
> As anyone knows who has timed an M-14, it is not exactly an easy process
> and it is very difficult to get dead nuts accurate. Typically we finish,
> hope for the best and check mag drop as a confidence factor.
>
> There are several ways to "do this better" when attempting the process, but
> one of the easier ways to time an engine is with the Aircraft Tool and
> Supply Company TIMERITE device. This is actually the same way the Russians
> attempt it, but with a much more accurate instrument.
>
> Apparent;ly the TIMERITE timing tool does not have gauge arms and scales
> developed for the M-14 engine, which actually is kind of odd since there are
> more of these engines in this country flying than there are some of the
> older radial engine designs that they have developed scales for.
>
> One of the ways to influence this is simply to call these folks up, tell
> them that you have an M-14, and would like to see them develop their product
> so it can be used on YOUR engine. Heck, it's a toll free call:
> 1-800-248-0638
>
> I am not saying there are not better methods than the TIMERITE (A Laser
> scale comes to mind), but being able to purchase and use this instrument on
> M-14 engines would be of benefit to all of us. So consider giving these
> folks a call sometime and tell them you'd love to see them develop their
> product to be used on our M-14 engines. Can't hurt.
>
> Mark
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendation M-14 engines |
Yep.- Me too.- Then I talked to a young lady that said they usually add
new scales and arms when they get enough calls from people who own them.
- They need to understand how many are out there before they will invest,
which makes sense.... hence my message.- :-)=0A-=0AThanks Doug!- =0A
-=0AMark=0A-=0A=0AFrom: doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>=0ATo: yak-lis
t@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 4:04 PM=0ASubject: Re: Ya
k-List: Recommendation M-14 engines=0A=0A=0ACalled them: =0A"So I hear your
now offering a-gauge-arm and scale for using the Timerite on a M14P??"
=0A=0AA what?=0AWhich engine?=0AA Russian engine?=0ARadial huh?=0AWell tech
is out-- call back tomorrow...............=0A=0ANot very encouraging.=0A
=0ADoug=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo
.com> wrote:=0A=0AThis should probably be on the M-14 engine list, (which I
will get around to doing), but for now just a recommendation for every M-1
4 engine owner on this list.- (Of course this might-equally apply to-
Housai engines as well!-)=0A>=0A>As anyone knows who has timed an M-14, i
t is not exactly an easy process and it is very difficult to get dead nuts
accurate.- Typically we finish, hope for the best and check mag drop as a
confidence factor.- =0A>=0A>There are several ways to "do this better" w
hen attempting the process, but one of the easier ways to time an engine is
with the Aircraft Tool and Supply Company TIMERITE device.- This is actu
ally the same way the Russians attempt it, but with a much more accurate in
strument.- =0A>=0A>Apparent;ly the TIMERITE timing tool does not have gau
ge arms and scales developed for the M-14 engine, which actually is kind of
odd since there are more of these engines in this country flying than ther
e are some of the older radial engine designs that they have developed scal
es for. =0A>=0A>One of the ways to influence this is simply to call these f
olks up, tell them that you have an M-14, and would like to see them develo
p their product so it can be used on YOUR engine.- Heck, it's a toll free
call:- 1-800-248-0638- =0A>=0A>I am not saying there are not better me
thods than the TIMERITE (A Laser scale comes to mind), but being able to pu
rchase and use this instrument on M-14 engines would be of benefit to all o
f us.- So consider giving these folks a call sometime and tell them you'd
love to see them develop their product to be used on our M-14 engines.-
- Can't hurt.- =0A>=0A>Mark =0A>=0A>et="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.mat
=======================
Message 5
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| Subject: | new M14P magneto coils |
Hello=2CThere have been an issue with magneto coils for the M14P engines wh
en the engine gets hot. I have the possibility to manufacture new coils for
those who are in the need for replacements. Please feal free to contact me
at: spitfire_mk5@hotmail.com if interested.Best regards=2CDaniel
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendation M-14 engines |
Hi Mark
Having already fabricated an arm and scale for my TIMERITE to
accommodate the Ivchenco series engines I can tell you it is barely
worth the effort.
The TIMERITE is an excellent timing device but like any other magneto
timing system that utilizes piston position it becomes increasingly less
accurate as the timing specification approaches TDC.
This of course is a result of piston dwell where the piston is
stationary through an angle of 4 to 5 degs. either side of TDC. In
that area the TIMERITE is totally useless.
Having said that the M14P engine WITH the specified fixed spark M9F
magneto is good candidate for the TIMERITE since the timing angle (and
therefore the setting angle) is 23 degs.(crankshaft) BTDC.
However a few M14P's and (as far as I know) all other variants of the
Ivchenko line utilize the M9, M9-25M or M9-35M.
These of course are all auto advance mags and, varying with engine
model, are timed with setting angles in the area of 10 degs. BTDC to 10
degs. ATDC and therefore must be timed by direct reference to the
crankshaft (or corresponding prop shaft) angle.
And NO, my arm and scale are not available under any circumstance. They
were just a test for my own personal information. The TIMERITE is a
patented, currently available device and if ATS think there is an
acceptable market they will design and manufacture as necessary.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Recommendation M-14 engines
This should probably be on the M-14 engine list, (which I will get
around to doing), but for now just a recommendation for every M-14
engine owner on this list. (Of course this might equally apply to
Housai engines as well! )
As anyone knows who has timed an M-14, it is not exactly an easy
process and it is very difficult to get dead nuts accurate. Typically
we finish, hope for the best and check mag drop as a confidence factor.
There are several ways to "do this better" when attempting the
process, but one of the easier ways to time an engine is with the
Aircraft Tool and Supply Company TIMERITE device. This is actually the
same way the Russians attempt it, but with a much more accurate
instrument.
Apparent;ly the TIMERITE timing tool does not have gauge arms and
scales developed for the M-14 engine, which actually is kind of odd
since there are more of these engines in this country flying than there
are some of the older radial engine designs that they have developed
scales for.
One of the ways to influence this is simply to call these folks up,
tell them that you have an M-14, and would like to see them develop
their product so it can be used on YOUR engine. Heck, it's a toll free
call: 1-800-248-0638
I am not saying there are not better methods than the TIMERITE (A
Laser scale comes to mind), but being able to purchase and use this
instrument on M-14 engines would be of benefit to all of us. So
consider giving these folks a call sometime and tell them you'd love to
see them develop their product to be used on our M-14 engines. Can't
hurt.
Mark
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