Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:03 AM - Re: HowTo adjust the air distributer (Roger Kemp M.D.)
2. 08:32 AM - Electronic fuel injection (Richard Goode)
3. 08:54 AM - Re: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools (Elmar Hegenauer)
4. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: Electronic fuel injection (Brian Lloyd)
6. 11:10 AM - mag coils (Jan Mevis)
7. 11:29 AM - Re: mag coils (doug sapp)
8. 11:39 AM - Re: mag coils (George Coy)
9. 11:46 AM - Re: mag coils (Jan Mevis)
10. 11:55 AM - Re: mag coils (George Coy)
11. 12:25 PM - Re: mag coils (Jan Mevis)
12. 12:25 PM - CJ eletrical parts for sale (Elmar Hegenauer)
13. 01:59 PM - Re: mag coils (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 05:50 PM - Re: mag coils (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: HowTo adjust the air distributer |
Okay, Doug, send a copy to me.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2011, at 2:11 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roger,
> My copier is down right now but a complete bound copy of the manual is onl
y $40.00, have 3 in stock.
>
> Doug
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> Doug, I do not have a HUOSIA manual. Can you send a copy of that page?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 12, 2011, at 1:17 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> See page 51 of Maintenance and Service Instructions for Aero Engine HUOSA
I-6A manual for full description for the adjustment procedure for the compre
ssed air dist in the HS6A engine. I am sure it will be the same procedure a
s used for the M14 series engines.
>>
>> Best,
>> Doug
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:04 AM, MLAUB <michael.laub@web.de> wrote:
>>
>> [Idea] help...
>>
>> How can i adjust the air distributer?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354816#354816
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Electronic fuel injection |
The Voronezh manufacturing company - the actual company that made M14P
engines in Russia (as opposed to designing them which was done by the
Vedenyev Design Bureau (OKMB)) did produce an electronic computer controlled
fuel injection system for the M14P. It had a high pressure fuel pump, and
then an electronic system whereby fuel was sprayed into the individual
intake pipes.
It worked well - I saw the engine running on the test-bed. Fuel consumption
was significantly improved and power slightly. An interesting point was
that there was a form of mechanical reversion so that if all electrical
power failed, it then continued but at about 80% of the power.
I suspect that, like most similar projects in Russia, it has simply died,
which is a shame. If you are interested there are some photographs on
http://www.russianaeros.com/Electronic%20Fuel%20Injection.htm
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools |
Didier and others,
here come the promised pictures.
Have fun.
cheers
Elmar
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools |
Very ingenious Elmar.
For dummies like me, I bought this timing tool which works perfect,
especially if the airplane has a spinner because the spinner backing
plate covers the timing marks on the prop flange.
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5
Disregard the TDC tool. Won't work properly because it is a geared engine.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 10/13/2011 10:50 AM, Elmar Hegenauer wrote:
> Didier and others,
>
> here come the promised pictures.
>
> Have fun.
>
> cheers
>
> Elmar
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic fuel injection |
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Richard Goode <
richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> The Voronezh manufacturing company ' the actual company that made M14P
> engines in Russia (as opposed to designing them which was done by the
> Vedenyev Design Bureau (OKMB)) did produce an electronic computer control
led
> fuel injection system for the M14P. It had a high pressure fuel pump, a
nd
> then an electronic system whereby fuel was sprayed into the individual
> intake pipes. ****
>
> ** **
>
> It worked well ' I saw the engine running on the test-bed. Fuel
> consumption was significantly improved and power slightly. An interesti
ng
> point was that there was a form of mechanical reversion so that if all
> electrical power failed, it then continued but at about 80% of the power.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> I suspect that, like most similar projects in Russia, it has simply died,
> which is a shame. If you are interested there are some photographs on
> http://www.russianaeros.com/Electronic%20Fuel%20Injection.htm
>
Thank you Richard. Very interesting. It makes a lot of sense to me.
The reason I am asking is that I just finished building an almost-race-car
(it is still street legal and I drive it regularly on street, track, and
autocross competition and plan to eventually set it up for racing only) and
have become much more familiar with EFI than I ever expected to be. At firs
t
I was daunted by the apparent complexity compared to carburetors, magnetos
and/or kettering ignition systems but once I dived in I discovered that it
is WAAAY simpler. (It is also way more reliable.) The ease of tuning puts
mechanical systems to shame. I hope to never have to deal with carburetors,
mechanical injection, or old ignition systems again.
So I was wondering if anyone had gotten around to trying it out with the
round engines. This seems like a really fruitful area for experimentation
and an add-on retrofit (retain stock carb and one mag for backup) should be
[relatively] easy. As a side effect one would end up with electronic engine
instrumentation.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 6
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Dear all,
Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag
coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product.
This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other
hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of
them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much
older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA
registered Yaks) will start soon.
We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine
environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a
larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to
produce them.
But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
BR,
Jan Mevis
Message 7
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Jan,
I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only
after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to
what the actual production coils will cost?
Doug
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag
> coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product.
>
> This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other
> hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
>
> The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of
> them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older
> but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
>
> Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA
> registered Yaks) will start soon.
>
> We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine
> environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
>
> I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger
> scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce
> them.
>
> But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
>
> BR,
>
> Jan Mevis
>
>
Message 8
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I think Carl and Jill Had some new coils made some time ago.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils
Jan,
I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only
after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to
what the actual production coils will cost?
Doug
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
Dear all,
Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag
coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product.
This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other
hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of
them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older
but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered
Yaks) will start soon.
We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment
so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger
scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce
them.
But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
BR,
Jan Mevis
Message 9
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Not yet really, I will first do some serious testing to make certain that it
's a good product.
The prototype has been made by a specialized company, and they had to
subcontract a part of it (the wire used for the secondary is very thin, so
problems for machine-winding and for impregnating the insulation).
When we presented the project to this company (they are friends) they
thought it to be an easy job . although we warned them .
We'll reveal the technical details as soon as we're confident that this coil
is really up to the required standards.
We'll also communicate the results if it's NOT good ..
BR,
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:26
Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils
Jan,
I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only
after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to
what the actual production coils will cost?
Doug
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
Dear all,
Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag
coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product.
This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other
hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of
them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older
but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered
Yaks) will start soon.
We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment
so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger
scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce
them.
But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
BR,
Jan Mevis
Message 10
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The following are the specifications per the Russian Documentation:
Here are the data of the coil of the M9 magnetos:
- the primary winding has 162 spires and the diameter of the wire
is 1 millimeter;
- the secondary winding has 13500 spires and the diameter of the
wire is 0.071 millimeters;
- the capacitor is between 0.16 and 0.25 microfarads.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils
Not yet really, I will first do some serious testing to make certain that it
's a good product.
The prototype has been made by a specialized company, and they had to
subcontract a part of it (the wire used for the secondary is very thin, so
problems for machine-winding and for impregnating the insulation).
When we presented the project to this company (they are friends) they
thought it to be an easy job . although we warned them .
We'll reveal the technical details as soon as we're confident that this coil
is really up to the required standards.
We'll also communicate the results if it's NOT good ..
BR,
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:26
Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils
Jan,
I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only
after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to
what the actual production coils will cost?
Doug
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
Dear all,
Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag
coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product.
This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other
hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of
them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older
but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered
Yaks) will start soon.
We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment
so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger
scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce
them.
But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
BR,
Jan Mevis
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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Indeed. We found the same data, but a higher capacitance (consistently
0.45).
The Russians (and the Chinese, I suppose ) make them manually, applying an
insulation layer after each wound layer on the secondary. I was told that
they were made by prisoners .may be not true.
We wanted it done the modern way, first evacuating all the air in between
the windings and then impregnating the modern insulation under high
temperature. This is the difficult part because this wire is so thin.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:53
Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils
The following are the specifications per the Russian Documentation:
Here are the data of the coil of the M9 magnetos:
- the primary winding has 162 spires and the diameter of the wire
is 1 millimeter;
- the secondary winding has 13500 spires and the diameter of the
wire is 0.071 millimeters;
- the capacitor is between 0.16 and 0.25 microfarads.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils
Not yet really, I will first do some serious testing to make certain that it
's a good product.
The prototype has been made by a specialized company, and they had to
subcontract a part of it (the wire used for the secondary is very thin, so
problems for machine-winding and for impregnating the insulation).
When we presented the project to this company (they are friends) they
thought it to be an easy job . although we warned them .
We'll reveal the technical details as soon as we're confident that this coil
is really up to the required standards.
We'll also communicate the results if it's NOT good ..
BR,
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:26
Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils
Jan,
I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only
after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to
what the actual production coils will cost?
Doug
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
Dear all,
Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag
coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product.
This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other
hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of
them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older
but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered
Yaks) will start soon.
We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment
so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger
scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce
them.
But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
BR,
Jan Mevis
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | CJ eletrical parts for sale |
ZF-1.5 Generator, used, $150.00
ZY-1, 500 Voltage Regulator, used, $125.00
LBQ-3 Wave Filter, used, $125.00
Magneto Coil, new, $390.00
All parts are in perfect working condition.
Please contact me off list.
cheers
Elmar
Message 13
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Let me point this out again, which by the way Jan already has a few
times already.
There is a very cheap alternative. Some folks over-seas HAVE to run
stock systems and thus these types of coils are required, regardless of
cost.
However, if you want to make your M-14 or Housai run MUCH better than it
ever has, both at idle and at full power, it is a no-brainer to install
the MSD ignition system in place of the original coil described here.
This also gives you a backup starting system should your stock "Boost
coil, shower of sparks (call it what you will) system fail.
I perfected this design with help from the MSD engineering department.
This system was tested with Jan's M-14R engine, which is one of the most
powerful M-14's ever produced. The installation is simple and effective
and worked flawlessly. Ask him for details of how well it ran.
I should sell kits and make money, but I'm not into that. If you want
to know how to do it, all you has to do is ask. It does require that
the aircraft be in the "Experimental" category.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils
Jan,
I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable
only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea
as to what the actual production coils will cost?
Doug
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
wrote:
Dear all,
Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly
made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new
product.
This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On
the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used.
The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils
(one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were
much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed).
Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our
RA registered Yaks) will start soon.
We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine
environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods.
I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them
on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide
to produce them.
But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering.
BR,
Jan Mevis
Message 14
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On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Let me point this out again, which by the way Jan already has a few
> times already.
>
> There is a very cheap alternative. Some folks over-seas HAVE to run
> stock systems and thus these types of coils are required, regardless of
> cost.
>
> However, if you want to make your M-14 or Housai run MUCH better than it
> ever has, both at idle and at full power, it is a no-brainer to install
> the MSD ignition system in place of the original coil described here.
> This also gives you a backup starting system should your stock "Boost
> coil, shower of sparks (call it what you will) system fail.
>
> I perfected this design with help from the MSD engineering department.
>
> This system was tested with Jan's M-14R engine, which is one of the most
> powerful M-14's ever produced. The installation is simple and effective
> and worked flawlessly. Ask him for details of how well it ran.
>
> I should sell kits and make money, but I'm not into that. If you want
> to know how to do it, all you has to do is ask. It does require that
> the aircraft be in the "Experimental" category.
>
This just makes SO much more sense. It is a short series of steps to smarter
electronics, coil-per-plug ignition, and then on to full EFI.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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