---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/13/11: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:03 AM - Re: HowTo adjust the air distributer (Roger Kemp M.D.) 2. 08:32 AM - Electronic fuel injection (Richard Goode) 3. 08:54 AM - Re: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools (Elmar Hegenauer) 4. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools (A. Dennis Savarese) 5. 09:29 AM - Re: Electronic fuel injection (Brian Lloyd) 6. 11:10 AM - mag coils (Jan Mevis) 7. 11:29 AM - Re: mag coils (doug sapp) 8. 11:39 AM - Re: mag coils (George Coy) 9. 11:46 AM - Re: mag coils (Jan Mevis) 10. 11:55 AM - Re: mag coils (George Coy) 11. 12:25 PM - Re: mag coils (Jan Mevis) 12. 12:25 PM - CJ eletrical parts for sale (Elmar Hegenauer) 13. 01:59 PM - Re: mag coils (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 14. 05:50 PM - Re: mag coils (Brian Lloyd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: HowTo adjust the air distributer From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Okay, Doug, send a copy to me. Doc Sent from my iPad On Oct 12, 2011, at 2:11 PM, doug sapp wrote: > Roger, > My copier is down right now but a complete bound copy of the manual is onl y $40.00, have 3 in stock. > > Doug > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote: > Doug, I do not have a HUOSIA manual. Can you send a copy of that page? > Doc > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 12, 2011, at 1:17 PM, doug sapp wrote: > >> See page 51 of Maintenance and Service Instructions for Aero Engine HUOSA I-6A manual for full description for the adjustment procedure for the compre ssed air dist in the HS6A engine. I am sure it will be the same procedure a s used for the M14 series engines. >> >> Best, >> Doug >> >> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:04 AM, MLAUB wrote: >> >> [Idea] help... >> >> How can i adjust the air distributer? >> >> thanks, >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354816#354816 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:24 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: Yak-List: Electronic fuel injection The Voronezh manufacturing company - the actual company that made M14P engines in Russia (as opposed to designing them which was done by the Vedenyev Design Bureau (OKMB)) did produce an electronic computer controlled fuel injection system for the M14P. It had a high pressure fuel pump, and then an electronic system whereby fuel was sprayed into the individual intake pipes. It worked well - I saw the engine running on the test-bed. Fuel consumption was significantly improved and power slightly. An interesting point was that there was a form of mechanical reversion so that if all electrical power failed, it then continued but at about 80% of the power. I suspect that, like most similar projects in Russia, it has simply died, which is a shame. If you are interested there are some photographs on http://www.russianaeros.com/Electronic%20Fuel%20Injection.htm Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Herefordshire HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:01 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: RE: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools From: Elmar Hegenauer Didier and others, here come the promised pictures. Have fun. cheers Elmar ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:48 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: How to set magneto timing by using simple tools Very ingenious Elmar. For dummies like me, I bought this timing tool which works perfect, especially if the airplane has a spinner because the spinner backing plate covers the timing marks on the prop flange. http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5 Disregard the TDC tool. Won't work properly because it is a geared engine. Dennis A. Dennis Savarese 334-285-6263 334-546-8182 (cell) Skype: Yakguy1 www.yak-52.com On 10/13/2011 10:50 AM, Elmar Hegenauer wrote: > Didier and others, > > here come the promised pictures. > > Have fun. > > cheers > > Elmar > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Electronic fuel injection From: Brian Lloyd On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Richard Goode < richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote: > The Voronezh manufacturing company ' the actual company that made M14P > engines in Russia (as opposed to designing them which was done by the > Vedenyev Design Bureau (OKMB)) did produce an electronic computer control led > fuel injection system for the M14P. It had a high pressure fuel pump, a nd > then an electronic system whereby fuel was sprayed into the individual > intake pipes. **** > > ** ** > > It worked well ' I saw the engine running on the test-bed. Fuel > consumption was significantly improved and power slightly. An interesti ng > point was that there was a form of mechanical reversion so that if all > electrical power failed, it then continued but at about 80% of the power. > **** > > ** ** > > I suspect that, like most similar projects in Russia, it has simply died, > which is a shame. If you are interested there are some photographs on > http://www.russianaeros.com/Electronic%20Fuel%20Injection.htm > Thank you Richard. Very interesting. It makes a lot of sense to me. The reason I am asking is that I just finished building an almost-race-car (it is still street legal and I drive it regularly on street, track, and autocross competition and plan to eventually set it up for racing only) and have become much more familiar with EFI than I ever expected to be. At firs t I was daunted by the apparent complexity compared to carburetors, magnetos and/or kettering ignition systems but once I dived in I discovered that it is WAAAY simpler. (It is also way more reliable.) The ease of tuning puts mechanical systems to shame. I hope to never have to deal with carburetors, mechanical injection, or old ignition systems again. So I was wondering if anyone had gotten around to trying it out with the round engines. This seems like a really fruitful area for experimentation and an add-on retrofit (retain stock carb and one mag for backup) should be [relatively] easy. As a side effect one would end up with electronic engine instrumentation. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 brian@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:58 AM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: Yak-List: mag coils Dear all, Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered Yaks) will start soon. We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce them. But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. BR, Jan Mevis ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils From: doug sapp Jan, I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to what the actual production coils will cost? Doug On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis wrote: > Dear all, > > Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag > coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. > > This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other > hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. > > The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of > them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older > but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). > > Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA > registered Yaks) will start soon. > > We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine > environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. > > I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger > scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce > them. > > But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. > > BR, > > Jan Mevis > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:01 AM PST US From: "George Coy" Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils I think Carl and Jill Had some new coils made some time ago. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils Jan, I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to what the actual production coils will cost? Doug On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis wrote: Dear all, Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered Yaks) will start soon. We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce them. But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. BR, Jan Mevis ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:03 AM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils Not yet really, I will first do some serious testing to make certain that it 's a good product. The prototype has been made by a specialized company, and they had to subcontract a part of it (the wire used for the secondary is very thin, so problems for machine-winding and for impregnating the insulation). When we presented the project to this company (they are friends) they thought it to be an easy job . although we warned them . We'll reveal the technical details as soon as we're confident that this coil is really up to the required standards. We'll also communicate the results if it's NOT good .. BR, Jan From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:26 Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils Jan, I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to what the actual production coils will cost? Doug On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis wrote: Dear all, Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered Yaks) will start soon. We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce them. But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. BR, Jan Mevis ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:16 AM PST US From: "George Coy" Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils The following are the specifications per the Russian Documentation: Here are the data of the coil of the M9 magnetos: - the primary winding has 162 spires and the diameter of the wire is 1 millimeter; - the secondary winding has 13500 spires and the diameter of the wire is 0.071 millimeters; - the capacitor is between 0.16 and 0.25 microfarads. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils Not yet really, I will first do some serious testing to make certain that it 's a good product. The prototype has been made by a specialized company, and they had to subcontract a part of it (the wire used for the secondary is very thin, so problems for machine-winding and for impregnating the insulation). When we presented the project to this company (they are friends) they thought it to be an easy job . although we warned them . We'll reveal the technical details as soon as we're confident that this coil is really up to the required standards. We'll also communicate the results if it's NOT good .. BR, Jan From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:26 Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils Jan, I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to what the actual production coils will cost? Doug On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis wrote: Dear all, Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered Yaks) will start soon. We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce them. But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. BR, Jan Mevis http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:47 PM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils Indeed. We found the same data, but a higher capacitance (consistently 0.45). The Russians (and the Chinese, I suppose ) make them manually, applying an insulation layer after each wound layer on the secondary. I was told that they were made by prisoners .may be not true. We wanted it done the modern way, first evacuating all the air in between the windings and then impregnating the modern insulation under high temperature. This is the difficult part because this wire is so thin. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:53 Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils The following are the specifications per the Russian Documentation: Here are the data of the coil of the M9 magnetos: - the primary winding has 162 spires and the diameter of the wire is 1 millimeter; - the secondary winding has 13500 spires and the diameter of the wire is 0.071 millimeters; - the capacitor is between 0.16 and 0.25 microfarads. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils Not yet really, I will first do some serious testing to make certain that it 's a good product. The prototype has been made by a specialized company, and they had to subcontract a part of it (the wire used for the secondary is very thin, so problems for machine-winding and for impregnating the insulation). When we presented the project to this company (they are friends) they thought it to be an easy job . although we warned them . We'll reveal the technical details as soon as we're confident that this coil is really up to the required standards. We'll also communicate the results if it's NOT good .. BR, Jan From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2011 20:26 Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils Jan, I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to what the actual production coils will cost? Doug On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis wrote: Dear all, Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered Yaks) will start soon. We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce them. But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. BR, Jan Mevis http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:49 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: CJ eletrical parts for sale From: Elmar Hegenauer ZF-1.5 Generator, used, $150.00 ZY-1, 500 Voltage Regulator, used, $125.00 LBQ-3 Wave Filter, used, $125.00 Magneto Coil, new, $390.00 All parts are in perfect working condition. Please contact me off list. cheers Elmar ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:27 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: mag coils From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Let me point this out again, which by the way Jan already has a few times already. There is a very cheap alternative. Some folks over-seas HAVE to run stock systems and thus these types of coils are required, regardless of cost. However, if you want to make your M-14 or Housai run MUCH better than it ever has, both at idle and at full power, it is a no-brainer to install the MSD ignition system in place of the original coil described here. This also gives you a backup starting system should your stock "Boost coil, shower of sparks (call it what you will) system fail. I perfected this design with help from the MSD engineering department. This system was tested with Jan's M-14R engine, which is one of the most powerful M-14's ever produced. The installation is simple and effective and worked flawlessly. Ask him for details of how well it ran. I should sell kits and make money, but I'm not into that. If you want to know how to do it, all you has to do is ask. It does require that the aircraft be in the "Experimental" category. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils Jan, I well understand the price of prototypes, most times it is retrievable only after the sale of many, many production units. Do you have a idea as to what the actual production coils will cost? Doug On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Jan Mevis wrote: Dear all, Attached you'll see a picture of our first prototype of a newly made mag coil. It is not an old rewound coil but a completely new product. This took quite some time, and the prototype IS expensive. On the other hand, only the best state-of-the-art new materials were used. The design data were reverse engineered from three Russian coils (one of them as good as new, used only for measuring; the other two were much older but still working; the oldest coil has been sacrificed). Testing (on the ground, since we must not fly anymore with our RA registered Yaks) will start soon. We're working on a bench test system to simulate the real engine environment so that we can collect test data for longer periods. I don't know yet if it'll be economically feasible to make them on a larger scale. So absolutely now idea yet about prices, if we decide to produce them. But it definitely was fun to do all the reverse engineering. BR, Jan Mevis ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: mag coils From: Brian Lloyd On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: > MALS-14 64E" > > Let me point this out again, which by the way Jan already has a few > times already. > > There is a very cheap alternative. Some folks over-seas HAVE to run > stock systems and thus these types of coils are required, regardless of > cost. > > However, if you want to make your M-14 or Housai run MUCH better than it > ever has, both at idle and at full power, it is a no-brainer to install > the MSD ignition system in place of the original coil described here. > This also gives you a backup starting system should your stock "Boost > coil, shower of sparks (call it what you will) system fail. > > I perfected this design with help from the MSD engineering department. > > This system was tested with Jan's M-14R engine, which is one of the most > powerful M-14's ever produced. The installation is simple and effective > and worked flawlessly. Ask him for details of how well it ran. > > I should sell kits and make money, but I'm not into that. If you want > to know how to do it, all you has to do is ask. It does require that > the aircraft be in the "Experimental" category. > This just makes SO much more sense. It is a short series of steps to smarter electronics, coil-per-plug ignition, and then on to full EFI. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 brian@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.