Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:23 AM - Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Oil and the M-14P (Warren Hill)
2. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Oil and the M-14P (Brian Lloyd)
3. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Oil and the M-14P (Warren Hill)
4. 04:38 PM - Re: Oil and the M-14P (CD 2.0)
5. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Oil and the M-14P (Brian Lloyd)
6. 09:29 PM - Landing light lens (Anthony Hudacek)
7. 09:32 PM - Fw: Landing light lens part 2 (Anthony Hudacek)
8. 11:53 PM - Re: Fw: Landing light lens part 2 (Didier BLOUZARD)
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| Subject: | Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
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Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
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fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and the M-14P |
Hello Carl,
Thanks for your help on the phone this last Thursday.
I was a little confused with the fact that the FBO guys appeared to be ordering
me a 55 gallon drum of AeroShell 120 straight weight mineral oil. It was my understanding
that straight weight mineral oils were to be used mostly for engine
break-in. I have been using the AeroShell 100 during the break-in period. I
think you may have mentioned on the phone that straight weight mineral oils have
also been used with the M-14P for regular operation, beyond the break-in period,
but I was not sure.
Should they instead be ordering me the AeroShell W120, which is an ashless dispersant
oil?
Just looking to get it right. Whatever I get, will combine it with CamGurad.
All the best,
Warren
Warren E. Hill, MD, FACS
5620 E. Broadway Road
Mesa, AZ 85206
Tel: +1-480-981-6111
FAX: +1-480-985-2426
hill@doctor-hill.com
www.doctor-hill.com
On Jul 30, 2011, at 9:27 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>
> Warren,
>
> CamGuard exceptional performance, beats the pants off any premium oils for corrosion
protection and anti-wear properties...
>
> Lots of owners are complaining about corrosion problems in engines. Part of this
is because of reduced flight activity due to higher fuel prices and economic
uncertainties. CamGuard isnt a slam dunk solution to corrosion problems, but
its the best solution out there because it provides "marginally and measurably"
better corrosion and anti-wear resistance than any oil out there.
>
> Multi-weight versus mono-grades with CamGuard... in desert climates like AZ as
well as temperate areas like California, the airplane won't see wide swings
in temperature. Although corrosion is less of a problem in these areas and you
could go with a multi-grade per se, I would stick with the Aeroshell W100 + the
CamGuard. At lower temperatures, multi-grade offers definite advantages by
reducing the strain on the pneumatic starter and battery and delivering oil pressure
sooner... it's better to have full oil pressure and parts bathed in oil
sooner rather than later... so during the coolest times of the year, you may
opt to switch to multi-grade and of course keeping adding CamGuard.
>
> And how about specific "multi-grade" oil brands to use with CamGuard?.... you're
looking for very small differences between similar oil products. No one can
produce convincing field data that one oil is hands down a better choice than
another... but Phillips XC is a good choice to go with CamGuard because XC
is a simple mineral-based oil with anti-oxidative and anti-foam additives that
responds well to CamGuard.
>
> So I would stick to single grade Aeroshell W100 + CamGuard for temperate climates,
without subfreezing temperatures, and multi-grade oil like Phillips XC 25W-60
+ CamGuard for the coolest parts of the year.
>
> Of course the use of the Phillips XC, should be conditioned with the new findings
from Jill (M14p engines shop in AZ) on M-14 engines that used this oil type.
Jill also mentioned that Phillips XC 25W-60 when used with CamGuard do not
seem to be encountering the stuck valve problem.
>
> Carl
>
> k7wx wrote:
>> Carl,
>>
>> Great post!
>>
>> I wonder if you, or others with insights into this have any thoughts about using
CamGuard with either straight weight or multi-viscosity oils for the M-14P.
I have heard anecdotally that for those engines in which CamGuard has been
used look better when inspected during an overhaul.
>>
>> Another simple question. I'm breaking in a zero-time M-14P. At about 20 hours,
oil temps began to come down and oil consumption leveled off. What would you
consider a reasonable endpoint for the break-in period before switching from
AeroShell 100 mineral oil to AeroShell 120 AD? Oil temp? Oil consumption? Minimal
number of hours?
>>
>> Warren Hill
>> N464TW
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348113#348113
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and the M-14P |
On Saturday, November 5, 2011, Warren Hill <k7wx@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I was a little confused with the fact that the FBO guys appeared to be
ordering me a 55 gallon drum of AeroShell 120 straight weight mineral oil.
It was my understanding that straight weight mineral oils were to be used
mostly for engine break-in. I have been using the AeroShell 100 during the
break-in period. I think you may have mentioned on the phone that straight
weight mineral oils have also been used with the M-14P for regular
operation, beyond the break-in period, but I was not sure.
>
> Should they instead be ordering me the AeroShell W120, which is an
ashless dispersant oil?
Ah yes, the oil argument that won't die.
I am sure you will hear lots of things about how this oil is perfect and
that oil will destroy your engine. Of course which oil is which will change
depending on who you talk to.
Here is what is right: all these oils will work to lubricate your engine
adequately. You can use straight-weight mineral oil, AD oil, anti-scuff
additives, and/or multi-viscosity oil. The only thing you really need to
make sure is that you get adequate flow when cold to ensure all parts of
the engine get adequate lubrication. You also need to make sure that the
oil has sufficient viscosity to maintain a proper lubricating film when hot.
Want to use straight-weight mineral oil? No problem. Fly often and change
oil often. Want to use cam guard? No problem. Want to use an AD oil? No
problem. You will probably have a cleaner engine at overhaul and fewer
combustion chamber deposits. Want to use a multi-vis oil? No problem. You
can get away with not switching oils when weather changes in that case.
So, do what you like. Change oil often, fly often for long periods so that
the oil comes up to operating temperature and stays there for 30 minutes,
and select proper viscosity to match ambient temperatures. everything else
is rhetoric.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and the M-14P |
Thanks Brian,
Warren Hill
On Nov 5, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> On Saturday, November 5, 2011, Warren Hill <k7wx@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I was a little confused with the fact that the FBO guys appeared to
be ordering me a 55 gallon drum of AeroShell 120 straight weight mineral
oil. It was my understanding that straight weight mineral oils were to
be used mostly for engine break-in. I have been using the AeroShell 100
during the break-in period. I think you may have mentioned on the phone
that straight weight mineral oils have also been used with the M-14P for
regular operation, beyond the break-in period, but I was not sure.
> >
> > Should they instead be ordering me the AeroShell W120, which is an
ashless dispersant oil?
>
> Ah yes, the oil argument that won't die.
>
> I am sure you will hear lots of things about how this oil is perfect
and that oil will destroy your engine. Of course which oil is which will
change depending on who you talk to.
>
> Here is what is right: all these oils will work to lubricate your
engine adequately. You can use straight-weight mineral oil, AD oil,
anti-scuff additives, and/or multi-viscosity oil. The only thing you
really need to make sure is that you get adequate flow when cold to
ensure all parts of the engine get adequate lubrication. You also need
to make sure that the oil has sufficient viscosity to maintain a proper
lubricating film when hot.
>
> Want to use straight-weight mineral oil? No problem. Fly often and
change oil often. Want to use cam guard? No problem. Want to use an AD
oil? No problem. You will probably have a cleaner engine at overhaul and
fewer combustion chamber deposits. Want to use a multi-vis oil? No
problem. You can get away with not switching oils when weather changes
in that case.
>
> So, do what you like. Change oil often, fly often for long periods so
that the oil comes up to operating temperature and stays there for 30
minutes, and select proper viscosity to match ambient temperatures.
everything else is rhetoric.
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and the M-14P |
Warren,
Adding to what Brian said, when selecting an oil type, main factors to consider
are budget, climate and flying habits...
If you fly your airplane regularly any oil should work fine.... If it goes weeks
without been flown then you need an oil that will run off slower from the metal
parts and will give some amount of protection during startup with essentially
a dry cam and tappet bodies. Corrosion is a common problem after the oil runs
off, especially in radial engines.
To put it in another perspective, a pilot flying 5 hours a week should use a different
oil type than someone flying twice a month. Those who fly regularly and
only use oil as the Aeroshell W120 will not see any signs of corrosion or wear
in their engines even if they dont use CamGuard. A weekly flight of at least
30 minutes is much better for your engine then any oil or additive you can
buy.... but if you don't fly weekly and want to significantly reduce rust and
improve lubrication, CamGuard is a good option.
For an easier understanding of what improvements are in line with specific combinations,
I would recommend doing an oil analysis prior to making any changes,
in this case using CamGuard for the first time. Then do the oil analysis after
the next 25 hours with the additive. Youll most likely notice a fairly dramatic
change in wear metals for the better. That was the experience of many who
are quite sold on the product but there is nothing like testing it by yourself.
There is also the option of Aero Shell W100 Plus, an ashless dispersant (AD type)
with corrosion and anti-wear protection. Notice that Aero Shell 100W and Aero
Shell 100W Plus are different oils. With the Plus option, CamGuard may not
be necessary and still help with corrosion issues when not flying regularly.
The W100 Plus, has anti-wear additives that help to increase the service life
of critical engine parts by acting as a protective layer particularly at high
temperatures. It will also help to protect against corrosion when the aircraft
is parked or in short term storage being that it is an excellent wear and corrosion
protection oil.
AeroShell 120 or W120 ?
I would stick with the W120 for long term use.... Most A&P shops recommend using
non-ashless dispersant (AD) oils for the break-in process as well as switching
to a high quality (AD) oil similar to the W80, W100 or W120 after the first
25 to 50 hours post-overhaul.
Precision Engines, in addition to recommending Aeroshells oils for the break-in,
(moderate to warm climates grade 120 and grade 100 for colder climates)....
they also suggest the use of (AD) mineral oil types after the break-in process.
AeroShell Oils like 80, 100 and 120 are used when dispersant additive (AD) is not
required, mainly during the break-in of a new piston engine or those recently
overhauled.
AeroShell Oils W80, W100 and W120 ashless dispersant oils, combine non-metallic
additives with high viscosity index base oils, giving great stability, dispersancy
and anti-foaming performance. Definitely the one I would use with or without
CamGuard.
Carl
k7wx wrote:
> Hello Carl,
>
> Thanks for your help on the phone this last Thursday.
>
> I was a little confused with the fact that the FBO guys appeared to be ordering
me a 55 gallon drum of AeroShell 120 straight weight mineral oil. It was my
understanding that straight weight mineral oils were to be used mostly for engine
break-in. I have been using the AeroShell 100 during the break-in period.
I think you may have mentioned on the phone that straight weight mineral oils
have also been used with the M-14P for regular operation, beyond the break-in
period, but I was not sure.
>
> Should they instead be ordering me the AeroShell W120, which is an ashless dispersant
oil?
>
> Just looking to get it right. Whatever I get, will combine it with CamGurad.
>
> All the best,
>
> Warren
>
>
>
> Warren E. Hill, MD, FACS
> 5620 E. Broadway Road
> Mesa, AZ 85206
>
> Tel: +1-480-981-6111
> FAX: +1-480-985-2426
>
> hill@doctor-hill.com
> www.doctor-hill.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 9:27 PM, CD 2.0 wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Warren,
> >
> > CamGuard exceptional performance, beats the pants off any premium oils for
corrosion protection and anti-wear properties...
> >
> > Lots of owners are complaining about corrosion problems in engines. Part of
this is because of reduced flight activity due to higher fuel prices and economic
uncertainties. CamGuard isnt a slam dunk solution to corrosion problems,
but its the best solution out there because it provides "marginally and measurably"
better corrosion and anti-wear resistance than any oil out there.
> >
> > Multi-weight versus mono-grades with CamGuard... in desert climates like AZ
as well as temperate areas like California, the airplane won't see wide swings
in temperature. Although corrosion is less of a problem in these areas and
you could go with a multi-grade per se, I would stick with the Aeroshell W100
+ the CamGuard. At lower temperatures, multi-grade offers definite advantages
by reducing the strain on the pneumatic starter and battery and delivering oil
pressure sooner... it's better to have full oil pressure and parts bathed in
oil sooner rather than later... so during the coolest times of the year, you may
opt to switch to multi-grade and of course keeping adding CamGuard.
> >
> > And how about specific "multi-grade" oil brands to use with CamGuard?....
you're looking for very small differences between similar oil products. No one
can produce convincing field data that one oil is hands down a better choice
than another... but Phillips XC is a good choice to go with CamGuard because
XC is a simple mineral-based oil with anti-oxidative and anti-foam additives that
responds well to CamGuard.
> >
> > So I would stick to single grade Aeroshell W100 + CamGuard for temperate climates,
without subfreezing temperatures, and multi-grade oil like Phillips XC
25W-60 + CamGuard for the coolest parts of the year.
> >
> > Of course the use of the Phillips XC, should be conditioned with the new findings
from Jill (M14p engines shop in AZ) on M-14 engines that used this oil
type. Jill also mentioned that Phillips XC 25W-60 when used with CamGuard do
not seem to be encountering the stuck valve problem.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > k7wx wrote:
> > > Carl,
> > >
> > > Great post!
> > >
> > > I wonder if you, or others with insights into this have any thoughts about
using CamGuard with either straight weight or multi-viscosity oils for the M-14P.
I have heard anecdotally that for those engines in which CamGuard has been
used look better when inspected during an overhaul.
> > >
> > > Another simple question. I'm breaking in a zero-time M-14P. At about 20 hours,
oil temps began to come down and oil consumption leveled off. What would
you consider a reasonable endpoint for the break-in period before switching from
AeroShell 100 mineral oil to AeroShell 120 AD? Oil temp? Oil consumption?
Minimal number of hours?
> > >
> > > Warren Hill
> > > N464TW
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348113#348113
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357045#357045
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and the M-14P |
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 4:35 PM, CD 2.0 <dbowie2007@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Warren,
>
> Adding to what Brian said, when selecting an oil type, main factors to
> consider are budget, climate and flying habits...
>
> If you fly your airplane regularly any oil should work fine.... If it goes
> weeks without been flown then you need an oil that will run off slower from
> the metal parts and will give some amount of protection during startup with
> essentially a dry cam and tappet bodies. Corrosion is a common problem
> after the oil runs off, especially in radial engines.
>
And if it goes weeks without being flown, no oil is going to remain on the
metal parts, period. Aviation Consumer or Light Plane Maintenance (I don't
remember which -- it was a long time ago) did a study of all the aircraft
oils available to see which ones would resist corrosion the longest. None
of the mineral-based oils provided any protection beyond 2 days. Only the
fully-synthetic oils provided protection beyond that and even then it was
only about a week.
So, bottom line, fly your airplane every couple of days or, better still,
every day, and make sure your oil comes up to temperature and stays there
long enough to boil the moisture out of the oil. It is best to actually get
the oil temp up over 100C. The CJ6A has an outlet oil temp selection which
is what you want to look at as it tells you the temp of the oil as it
leaves the engine. If that is 100C or above, then you know that the water
in the oil is being boiled out and leaving via the breather. If you are
flying a Yak with no outlet oil temp then get your oil temp up to 80C and
leave it there. Odds are good that the oil will get up to 100C or higher
going through the engine.
And here is one more thing to start an argument. 80C is only 176F and US
engines from Lycoming and Continental have vernatherms that keep the oil
from flowing through the cooler until it reaches 180F. So the US oil
companies consider 80C to be the lower-limit of normal operation, not the
upper limit. That means that running your oil temp at 80C is not going to
hurt a thing. (Let the fireworks begin!)
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Landing light lens |
Hi all,=0A-=0ADoes anyone know where I can find a landing light lens for
my 18T?=0A-=0AAnt.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fw: Landing light lens part 2 |
=0A=0AIt's the one on the gear leg. I think it's called a positioning light
.=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message -----=0AFrom: Anthony Hudacek <antdea2000@ya
hoo.com.au>=0ATo: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>=0ASent:
Sunday, 6 November 2011 12:27 PM=0ASubject: Landing light lens=0A=0A=0AHi
all,=0A=0ADoes anyone know where I can find a landing light lens for my 18T
?=0A=0AAnt.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Landing light lens part 2 |
Well I don't remember where but I know there has been a post with a web site
with nearly all our references in LED light bulbs. For 18T and for 52.
Anyone remind that seller?
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 6 nov. 2011 =C3- 05:30, Anthony Hudacek <antdea2000@yahoo.com.au> a =C3
=A9crit :
> It's the one on the gear leg. I think it's called a positioning light.
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: Anthony Hudacek <antdea2000@yahoo.com.au>
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011 12:27 PM
> Subject: Landing light lens
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a landing light lens for my 18T?
>
> Ant.
>
>
>
>
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