Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Helmets Why you need one (Drew Blahnick)
2. 06:31 AM - Re: FW: Helmets -Why use one? (Bill Geipel)
3. 08:29 AM - Re: Helmets Why you need one (Brian Lloyd)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: FW: Helmets -Why use one? (Brian Lloyd)
5. 10:57 AM - Re: Chinese Flight Helmets (Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer)
6. 11:04 AM - Re: FW: Helmets -Why use one? (Francisco Mendes)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Chinese Flight Helmets (Javier Carrasco)
8. 02:38 PM - Re: Chinese Flight Helmets (Harv)
9. 07:16 PM - Re: Chinese Flight Helmets (Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer)
10. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Chinese Flight Helmets (Sam Sax)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Helmets Why you need one |
As Brian knows, here is why we need a hard shell helmet; for hard lessons th
at when they
Don't kill you, make you better...as long as your jelly is still in place.
http://gallery.me.com/lacloudchaser/100382
Brian, you know I had to go with that levity after our email! Seriously, ev
en a minor thrashing back and forth with the heads impacting potruding butto
ns, knobs, throttle quadrants, canopy rails, etc. during the proverbial "fie
ry cartwheel approach" would "seem" to favor a hard shell vs soft. But I sus
pect the scientific testing of the 55 tells another tale... And I can remem
ber our ejection and parachute landing fall (PLF) training in flight school f
or the Tweety Bird & T38, a truck would pull us to 50 feet under canopy and w
e would release on our own recognizance; invariably over half the class woul
d dork up the PLF desired impact sequence (feet, calf, thigh) for (feet, ars
e, back of head) - and then getting dragged in the wind looking for the rise
r-releases. We had helmets on, couldn't imagine wearing shoe leather on my d
ome for that? Maybe it's just a confidence inspirer...
P.S. *information only* I want to go on the record on a long past issue I di
scussed with Mark on the phone that may have affected you, over our adoptin
g a YPA policy in 2003 (when we stood up the RPA) that you "had" to wear par
achutes during RPA fly-in formation training (or you assumably couldn't fly i
n the given formation). For some, the sheer logic behind this was troubling.
Around 2004/5, based on member objections like Mark and Walts, we changed o
ur policy to strictly follow the FAA FARS concerning parachutes in the RPA a
t training clinics. Flight Leaders can make personal rules, but we (RPA) sim
ply asked aviators to follow the FARS at clinics. There was no logic to a pa
rachute increasing the safety of *others outside your aircraft* by your use d
uring non aerobatic formation. (your backseater is another issue). Helmets w
ere also always made optional as I recall.
But I wore my dome 98% of the time for the above...
Drew
______________________________________
Strive for one knee down in life, but never two.
(1000 Year Old Road Racing Proverb That I Just Made Up)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Helmets -Why use one? |
Hit 50. All at once. Very. Short final, they all lift off the water at the e
nd of the runway. Mechanics actually counted the strikes. Airbus didn't care
. Looks bad when Captain shows up in a helmet.
Good friend took a duck thru the windshield of his airplane. Took out his le
ft eye. It can happen.
Bill
On Jan 5, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> w
rote:
> Hit one in the jet. One in the 52 and one in the 50. I've had my three!
>
> Only two for me but one came within inches of totaling the airplane ... an
d I didn't even know it had happened. It happened at night right at rotation
and the noise and vibration at transition masked the sound of the impact. I
didn't even know the aircraft was damaged until I got to my destination.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Helmets Why you need one |
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Drew Blahnick <dblahnick@gmail.com> wrote:
> As Brian knows, here is why we need a hard shell helmet; for hard lessons
> that when they
> Don't kill you, make you better...as long as your jelly is still in place.
>
> http://gallery.me.com/lacloudchaser/100382
>
Ouch! Leathers and helmet are good. You'd never catch me on the bike
without them. (Armor too.) I hope you didn't trash the fairing too much. I
am in the process of rebuilding the fairing on my bike (Kawasaki Ninja)
because a replacement fairing cost about half of what I paid for the bike!!!
> Brian, you know I had to go with that levity after our email!
>
:-)
> Seriously, even a minor thrashing back and forth with the heads impacting
> potruding buttons, knobs, throttle quadrants, canopy rails, etc. during the
> proverbial "fiery cartwheel approach" would "seem" to favor a hard shell vs
> soft. But I suspect the scientific testing of the 55 tells another tale...
> And I can remember our ejection and parachute landing fall (PLF) training
> in flight school for the Tweety Bird & T38, a truck would pull us to 50
> feet under canopy and we would release on our own recognizance; invariably
> over half the class would dork up the PLF desired impact sequence (feet,
> calf, thigh) for (feet, arse, back of head) - and then getting dragged in
> the wind looking for the riser-releases. We had helmets on, couldn't
> imagine wearing shoe leather on my dome for that? Maybe it's just a
> confidence inspirer...
>
And I understand all that. We tend to use simple cause-and-effect
single-variable analysis of these kinds of problems, e.g. if your head hits
these bumpy things it will hurt your head and the helmet stops them from
hurting your head so a helmet is good. That sort of analysis is useful but
it doesn't tell the whole story. We have the issues of neck injury due to
compression against the canopy during radical -G events. We have neck
injury caused by additional mass on the head. They are easy to dismiss as,
"Well, gee, the mass of the helmet isn't that much so how bad can it be?"
Rick Volker's article is stellar. It is the kind of analysis I was looking
for. It isn't simplistic and it addresses trade-offs. (Good on ya Rick!!!!)
For me I started to question things as I prepared a car to run on the
track. One of the things that really got me is how much better I could
perform because of a proper seat in the car. The seat protects my head from
lateral loads and reduces fatigue as well, making me a better AND safer
driver. So when I was thinking about protecting myself in the aircraft I
started thinking about whether it might make sense to approach it from a
different angle, having the seat and/or something like a HANS device
providing additional protection and whether that would be better than a
helmet by itself. We also have the example of the air-bag. Now I am not
saying that an air-bag is the answer in the cockpit but just that, if you
start thinking outside the traditional box, you see other possibilities.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Helmets -Why use one? |
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Bill Geipel <czech6@mesanetworks.net> wrote:
> Hit 50. All at once. Very. Short final, they all lift off the water at the
> end of the runway. Mechanics actually counted the strikes. Airbus didn't
> care. Looks bad when Captain shows up in a helmet.
>
But you tried, right?
Good friend took a duck thru the windshield of his airplane. Took out his
> left eye. It can happen.
>
And engines quit running too. But we still fly single-engine aircraft, ride
bicycles, walk down the street, and even get out of bed in the morning. It
is all about risk acceptance and risk management. If you really wanna to be
safe, stop flying them Ruski and Chink airplanes, and don't get into a car!
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese Flight Helmets |
Hi again,
I have sent this ebay seller
an email regarding those
Chinese Flight Helmets.
Here comes his answer:
Dear cj6adriver,
hi dear cj6adriver
thanks for your reply.for this
helmet.is for flight operation.and
the wuality is very good, the
protective enclosure is made of
glass fiber reinforced
materials .and eyeglass for the pc
material, has good anti-impact
performance is not broken.
Anti-collision energy is not less
than 89.67J. Anti-penetration energy
of not less than 58.8J.Quality
goggles can withstand 1g, 5.5mm
diameter sand to 100m / s speed of
impact.
many people purchuse it from me and
leave me positive me positive
feedback,you will find it really
worths your money on it when you get
it.
If you have any question,please feel
free to email me and i will be glad
to give you my help!
Looking forward of the cooperation
with you soon!
Regards
yan
- shop2009mb
What do you make out of this?
cheers
Elmar
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Helmets -Why use one? |
I hit about seven large birds in the landing flare while flying a caravan fo
r the UN world food program in South Sudan in 1998. Startled me, but fortuna
tely my speed was low. I had to do a 180 to backtrack the dirt strip and was
greeted with the sight of a voracious pack of Sudanese swarming the strip t
o grab the dead birds.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 6, 2012, at 7:24 AM, Bill Geipel <czech6@mesanetworks.net> wrote:
> Hit 50. All at once. Very. Short final, they all lift off the water at the
end of the runway. Mechanics actually counted the strikes. Airbus didn't ca
re. Looks bad when Captain shows up in a helmet.
>
> Good friend took a duck thru the windshield of his airplane. Took out his l
eft eye. It can happen.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>> Hit one in the jet. One in the 52 and one in the 50. I've had my three!
>>
>> Only two for me but one came within inches of totaling the airplane ... a
nd I didn't even know it had happened. It happened at night right at rotatio
n and the noise and vibration at transition masked the sound of the impact. I
didn't even know the aircraft was damaged until I got to my destination.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>> 3191 Western Dr.
>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> brian@lloyd.com
>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese Flight Helmets |
Sounds Good!
-
Just make sure you have proper canopy clearence and that you add a quick di
sconnect device.
-
The quick disconnect should be same side as your Headset plug, never have t
he cord across your chest or behind your neck, you don't want to have your
neck snap because the comms are still connected while you try to getout of
the plane in a rush.
-
JC
--- On Fri, 1/6/12, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h@shaw.ca> wrote:
From: Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h@shaw.ca>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Chinese Flight Helmets
>
Hi again,
I have sent this ebay seller
an email regarding those
Chinese Flight Helmets.
Here comes his answer:
Dear cj6adriver,
hi dear cj6adriver
thanks for your reply.for this
helmet.is for flight operation.and
the wuality is very good, the
protective enclosure is made of
glass fiber reinforced
materials .and eyeglass for the pc
material, has good anti-impact
performance is not broken.
Anti-collision energy is not less
than 89.67J. Anti-penetration energy
of not less than 58.8J.Quality
goggles can withstand 1g, 5.5mm
diameter sand to 100m / s speed of
impact.
many people purchuse it from me and
leave me positive me positive
feedback,you will find it really
worths your money on it when you get
it.
If you have any question,please feel
free to email me and i will be glad
to give you my help!
Looking forward of the cooperation
with you soon!
Regards
yan
- shop2009mb
What do you make out of this?
cheers
Elmar
le, List Admin.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese Flight Helmets |
Elmar
Be careful, as the link you posted to helmets is not for proper PLAA ones.
I purchased 2 of the 'genuine' helmets from the seller listed in the link below
and they are far superior in materials and construction to the 'motorcycle quality'
ones..
They cost me around $250 each for the helmets plus about another $150 each to convert
to GA for use in my CJ.
Contact the seller and get him to confirm the original speakers and foam ear seals
are included.
Don't be put off by the oxygen mask, just un-clip it and discard.
You will need to add a goose neck flex boom with electret mic and support which
means drilling the helmet and also buy a GA wire harness from someone like Oregon
Aero.
The original speakers mounted in these helmets work just fine and their ohm range
is just fine for our GA radios.
Interestingly I converted my helmets at the same time as we we're removing the
old military radio wiring out of my CJ6 and the connection plug on these 'fast
jet' helmets is exactly the same as the harness in the Chang and they plugged
straight in [Laughing]
Everyhting this guy sell's is genuine ex-military....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PILOT-HELMET-FLIGHT-HELMET-TK-2A-OXYGEN-MASK-/260917439260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbfe42b1c
Rgs
Martin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362618#362618
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese Flight Helmets |
Hi Martin,
thank you very much for your input
and the link, that is quite an
eye-opener.
I will contact that seller the next
days and go from there.
Thanks again everybody for helping me
out.
cheers
Elmar
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese Flight Helmets |
Elmar,
I tried using one of these original PLAA helmets... (I still have it if
anyone is interested...) I am sure it can be retrofitted etc. but the main
issue I had with it was its weight... It is very heavy and very rigid (no
spreading flex when putting it on or pulling off your head..). As was
mentioned on the List before, the U.S Helmets (HGU 55, HGU-68 for example)
are much lighter and a lot easier to work with. The U.S Helmet's stock
insulation/sound attenuation is far superior also which will make the ANR
conversion effect a lot better. I use the HGU-68 as it's a comfortable one
hand operation to just the visor, the visor adjusting knob is offset to the
left of center allowing more clearance to the top of the canopy (as compared
to the older HGU-33). By the time you add the $79.00 shipping to the
$250.00 cost, you are just about the cost of a good U.S made helmet, ...and
your neck will appreciate it too (especially if you are over 50 and like to
pull some 'G'... :)).
Just my two cents...
Sam Sax
Miami, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harv
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 5:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Chinese Flight Helmets
Elmar
Be careful, as the link you posted to helmets is not for proper PLAA ones.
I purchased 2 of the 'genuine' helmets from the seller listed in the link
below and they are far superior in materials and construction to the
'motorcycle quality' ones..
They cost me around $250 each for the helmets plus about another $150 each
to convert to GA for use in my CJ.
Contact the seller and get him to confirm the original speakers and foam ear
seals are included.
Don't be put off by the oxygen mask, just un-clip it and discard.
You will need to add a goose neck flex boom with electret mic and support
which means drilling the helmet and also buy a GA wire harness from someone
like Oregon Aero.
The original speakers mounted in these helmets work just fine and their ohm
range is just fine for our GA radios.
Interestingly I converted my helmets at the same time as we we're removing
the old military radio wiring out of my CJ6 and the connection plug on these
'fast jet' helmets is exactly the same as the harness in the Chang and they
plugged straight in [Laughing]
Everyhting this guy sell's is genuine ex-military....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PILOT-HELMET-FLIGHT-HELMET-TK-2A-OXYGEN-MASK-/260917
439260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbfe42b1c
Rgs
Martin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362618#362618
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