Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:48 AM - Re: fuel range of a stock CJ? (Hal Morley)
2. 07:35 AM - Re: fuel range of a stock CJ? (Brian Lloyd)
3. 09:53 AM - Re: max altitude in a CJ (Dave Laird)
4. 10:01 AM - Re: max altitude in a CJ (Kurt Howerton)
5. 10:14 AM - Re: max altitude in a CJ (Brian Lloyd)
6. 10:37 AM - Re: max altitude in a CJ (Dave Laird)
7. 10:38 AM - Re: max altitude in a CJ (Dave Laird)
8. 10:43 AM - Re: max altitude in a CJ (Tom Elliott)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: fuel range of a stock CJ? |
When it comes to range I find altitude is my friend (and it doesn't hurt for going
over our mountain ranges either). I have the M14P with the Performance Airflow
injection carb that is leaned manually. At 13,500' I am typically flying
wide open throttle lean of peak (WOTLOP) at 154 kts TAS, around 20.8", 2100
RPM and 12.6 GPH. since it takes a bit of fuel to get up there, my duration
is about 5 hrs to empty on 72 gallons with an indicated no-reserve range of about
700+ nautical miles (however, my bladder is more constraining). Flying in
the 15,500 to 17,500 range gives a little higher TAS with a bit lower burn rate.
I have flown a lot of cross country with Tom Elliott in his stock CJ, and we are
usually pretty close to each other on fuel burn. For cruising the stock CJ
handles altitude quite well. On a trip together to Kalispel, Montana from Portland,
Oregon, we were cleared into Class A airspace to stay VFR on top over the
mountains. We were climbing pretty well through 18,640' as we approached the
Kalispel airport (KGPI is 2,977'). The descent was one of those times when
it is just great to have a warbird!
I have also flown quite a bit with Brian, and can attest to the fact that he is
very adroit at milking a CJ for performance.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: fuel range of a stock CJ? |
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Hal Morley <yakjock@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When it comes to range I find altitude is my friend (and it doesn't hurt
> for going over our mountain ranges either).
Hal is right on the money with this comment. I did experiment with
different altitudes and its effect on max range. I too have had the CJ6A up
to 18,000' (but then I was measuring the actual climb performance of the
aircraft). In cruise I have operated from about 6000' to 15,000' which is
how I came to the conclusion that right around 12,000' is the most
efficient altitude.
But Hal aludes to a little secret: if you have tailwinds that increase with
altitude, your most efficient altitude goes up (to a point). The actual
efficiency of the aircraft may go down but the increased groundspeed
changes the effective efficiency (ground distance covered per unit of fuel)
in your favor.
And I would expect Hal's airplane to be more efficient higher up due to the
excess available horsepower at higher altitudes. My seat-of-the-pants guess
would put the most efficient altitude for his plane up around 15,000'. It
would be interesting to gather data to see. I bet he has the
instrumentation (fuel flow) to collect that data quickly. I had to get my
data points on a per-hop basis at the gas pump which takes a bit more time.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: max altitude in a CJ |
so I saw that Brian had his CJ to 18,000... (i've had her to 17,500) and that Hal
has also been up there too..
the question I have is... what is the max altitude to which you've flown your
CJ?
on the other end of the spectrum... has anyone flown through death valley? or the
dead sea area, etc?
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Austin * Dallas
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: max altitude in a CJ |
KTRM: -115 ft
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109986913335220041730/albums/5666921308556962161
--
Kurt "It" Howerton
N923YK
530-312-1299
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
http://www.baybombersquadron.com
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com> wrote:
>
> so I saw that Brian had his CJ to 18,000... (i've had her to 17,500) and
> that Hal has also been up there too..
>
> the question I have is... what is the max altitude to which you've flown
> your CJ?
> on the other end of the spectrum... has anyone flown through death valley?
> or the dead sea area, etc?
>
>
> Dave Laird
> N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
> Austin * Dallas
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: max altitude in a CJ |
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com> wrote:
>
> so I saw that Brian had his CJ to 18,000... (i've had her to 17,500) and
> that Hal has also been up there too..
>
> the question I have is... what is the max altitude to which you've flown
> your CJ?
>
Well, as I indicated, I have flown right to the base of FL180. The only
reason I didn't climb higher was nasal canulas instead of masks (pulse
oximeter said it would have been OK) and I didn't file an IFR flight plan.
(Yes, my CJ was IFR certified.)
But climb was pretty anemic at FL180. It was down to about 300fpm if I
recall correctly. But I was operated near max gross weight.
BTW Dave, it was in 'Betty'.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: max altitude in a CJ |
On Jan 18, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> But climb was pretty anemic at FL180. It was down to about 300fpm if I
recall correctly. But I was operated near max gross weight.
>
> BTW Dave, it was in 'Betty'.
>
>
>
Awesome Brian!
I have had her at 17,500 with about 200 to 300fpm of climb left I
think. I was actually very surprised she had that much climb remaining
at that altitude.
Here in Texas she rarely has the need to get up over 10K.
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Austin * Dallas
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: max altitude in a CJ |
On Jan 18, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Kurt Howerton wrote:
> KTRM: -115 ft
>
show off! ;)
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Austin * Dallas
Message 8
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| Subject: | max altitude in a CJ |
Been to Death Valley many times with my stock CJ. On a cold winter morning
at -210 ft. or so the takeoff performance
is great.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 702-595-2680
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: max altitude in a CJ
so I saw that Brian had his CJ to 18,000... (i've had her to 17,500) and
that Hal has also been up there too..
the question I have is... what is the max altitude to which you've flown
your CJ?
on the other end of the spectrum... has anyone flown through death valley?
or the dead sea area, etc?
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Austin * Dallas
-----
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